Goblin Squad Member
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Just chatting with a co-worker, and this idea came to mind. I have not really thought it through, and obviously there would need to be either a maximum time, or some event condition that indicated the battle was over.
Again, this is *not* a well-thought-out idea, I'm just curious what y'all (yes, I'm from Texas) might think about it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It is a good theory, but how to work it seems practically impossible. Open world pvp means the battleground is everywhere... so do you temporarily remove someone from everywhere? Or just flag them to not be able to do any mining, gathering or killing until the time runs up?
Honestly in a way the game will likely remove people from the battleground. you respawn them back in their territory, which odds are will be between 10 minutes to 2 hours away for the offensive side. The defense will likely want to take the battle as far from their shrine (which would be what they respawn at, and what the attackers will be most desiring to destroy)
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Goblin Squad Member
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What stops someone from Killing you and logging out?
Not sure which thread, but there's been a lot of discussion about forcing "flagged" players to remain in a state where they can be retaliated against for 15-30 minutes after acquiring their flag.
This shouldn't be a problem for a force that's trying to take over territory, but *might* discourage lone-wolf strikers who think they can log out and avoid any retaliation.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Oh, I got killed by someone who jumped me.
Let's see, he got double my skills and much better items while I was also being swatted by this monster - no wonder I lost.
Whats the penalty. Oh, I lost my gear AND I will respawn back in the city after travelling for 10 Minutes AND I can not log on for probably half an hour.
Uhm, CANCEL SUBSCRIPTION.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Oh, I got killed by someone who jumped me.
Let's see, he got double my skills and much better items while I was also being swatted by this monster - no wonder I lost.
Whats the penalty. Oh, I lost my gear AND I will respawn back in the city after travelling for 10 Minutes AND I can not log on for probably half an hour.
Uhm, CANCEL SUBSCRIPTION.
Not sure where you got this. I don't think *anyone* here has been suggesting that the person who gets ganked in the wild can't log back in.
What I've seen suggested (by me) along those lines is that participants in a battle can't log in while the one who killed them is still active, but (as I said there) that's not a very thought-out idea, and it's totally different than what you describe.
As for what I've seen proposed in the situation you describe above, which is someone attacking you while you're not PvP flagged. They would gain a "killer" flag, and would not be able to log *out* for some time. You might have to spawn in friendly territory, but that seems right to me. You would have no restrictions on logging in or out yourself.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Oh, I got killed by someone who jumped me.
Let's see, he got double my skills and much better items while I was also being swatted by this monster - no wonder I lost.
Whats the penalty. Oh, I lost my gear AND I will respawn back in the city after travelling for 10 Minutes AND I can not log on for probably half an hour.
Uhm, CANCEL SUBSCRIPTION.
Not sure where you got this. I don't think *anyone* here has been suggesting that the person who gets ganked in the wild can't log back in.
What I've seen suggested (by me) along those lines is that participants in a battle can't log in while the one who killed them is still active, but (as I said there) that's not a very thought-out idea, and it's totally different than what you describe.
As for what I've seen proposed in the situation you describe above, which is someone attacking you while you're not PvP flagged. They would gain a "killer" flag, and would not be able to log *out* for some time. You might have to spawn in friendly territory, but that seems right to me. You would have no restrictions on logging in or out yourself.
My concern with ideas like this is that the "game" has no way to determine legitimate PvP from ganking...battles from zergs. I cannot think of any absolute tells that the game could use to determine. Likewise, what is to keep whole groups from not flagging and moving to strategic positions on a battlefield before flagging? This would allow them to take positions that would normally be defended and anyone who tries to legitimately defend their position is penalized for hitting/killing unflagged players. Large scale PvP will become a flag/unflag strategy game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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... the "game" has no way to determine legitimate PvP from ganking...
That's why I don't propose any penalties for getting the "killer" flag, other than your character having to stay in-game. People who are going to be online, engaging in PvP anyway aren't going to care if they're flagged as a killer and *have* to stay online.
There are many reasons that zones might auto-flag people just for entering, and I think an active war zone would certainly count for that.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Forcing a "killer" to stay logged in may be nice for you but it's not necessarily fair to the killer. If you've ever experienced a real life emergency or loss of connectivity then you should understand that this is an unacceptable penalty. Plus, how does this hurt someone with the ability to teleport to a random location and hang out where nobody will find or get to them til their flag disappears, reading a book or playing some other game while they wait.
I think that we should have no mechanical penalties for ganking someone. It should be purely social. You killed me like a punk? Well, now my guild is gonna return the favor when you're not expecting it. No point in crying and whining about it. And god forbid you gank someone's lower level alt, because then you're gonna get wrecked.
Just let human nature take it's course. Humans have been around for thousands of years and will be for thousands more. A silly mechanic to try and stop human behavior will not make our desire to gank people go away.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Forcing a "killer" to stay logged in may be nice for you but it's not necessarily fair to the killer. If you've ever experienced a real life emergency or loss of connectivity then you should understand that this is an unacceptable penalty. Plus, how does this hurt someone with the ability to teleport to a random location and hang out where nobody will find or get to them til their flag disappears, reading a book or playing some other game while they wait.
I think that we should have no mechanical penalties for ganking someone. It should be purely social. You killed me like a punk? Well, now my guild is gonna return the favor when you're not expecting it. No point in crying and whining about it. And god forbid you gank someone's lower level alt, because then you're gonna get wrecked.
Just let human nature take it's course. Humans have been around for thousands of years and will be for thousands more. A silly mechanic to try and stop human behavior will not make our desire to gank people go away.
I strongly disagree, how does one get revenge on someone, when they just poof out of existence at the first sign of a threat? You have a real life emergency, you accept the revenge kill, if you expect something to come up, you don't pick that as the time to go out killing, if you are near your own territory you can hide in your shelters, behind your own lines etc... If you are deep in enemy territory, you are toast.
with instant log out how is Ganking someones lower level alt even dangerous? Soon as his higher level character comes for you, poof you are out of existance, change characters, pop back on in an hour when he has given up on looking for you and probably back on the lower level alt.
Humans have been around for thousands of years because murderers can't just blink out of existence when the police show up. Between the options of allowing people to log off at the sign of danger, and requiring everyone to reach an inn, or town that views them as friendly to sign out. I would take the second.
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Goblin Squad Member
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EVE mechanics work well in this kind of situations.
You log off before being fired upon: you warp away in a random direction and disappear after a couple of minutes. A very well organized group that is ready to find you can still attack your ship, but they have a very little chance of destroying it.
If you have participated in combat in any form (even as a target) in the last 15 minutes and log off your ship warp to a random location and stay there for 15 minutes after logging off. If an hostile force find you in time they have that timespan to kill it.
Note: the only combat that count for the 15 minute timers is against other players. if you have engaged NPC you disappear after 1 minute.
To translate it in PFO terms a character that hasn't engaged in PvP will disappear in one minute or even less, dropping immediately any NPC aggro (that will be done to protect people from character loss as a consequence of a connection failure).
A character that has been engaged in PvP, even as a target, in the last 15 minutes, will stay in game for some time after logging off (probably 5 minutes will be sufficient), maybe fleeing for safety is if under attack or using some NPC AI driven survival routine (using invisibility if available, full defence or other similar behaviours).
That way you would be reasonable safe against NPC in the event of a connection loss but your actions will have consequences in the if you were trying to use the "ambush another player character and then log off to avoid retaliation" tactic.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I strongly disagree, how does one get revenge on someone, when they just poof out of existence at the first sign of a threat? You have a real life emergency, you accept the revenge kill, if you expect something to come up, you don't pick that as the time to go out killing, if you are near your own territory you can hide in your shelters, behind your own lines etc... If you are deep in enemy territory, you are toast.with instant log out how is Ganking someones lower level alt even dangerous? Soon as his higher level character comes for you, poof you are out of existance, change characters, pop back on in an hour when he has given up on looking for you and probably back on the lower level alt.
Humans have been around for thousands of years because murderers can't just blink out of existence when the police show up. Between the options of allowing people to log off at the sign of danger, and requiring everyone to reach an inn, or town that views them as friendly to sign out....
It's a video game so none of it is "dangerous", unless you consider eye strain and carpal tunnel dangerous.
No system or flags or other such nonsense should be put in place. Especially not to fulfill someones desire to feel the instant gratification of a revenge killing. If it wasn't a video game you wouldn't have the opportunity for a revenge killing in the first place since you'd be dead. If you want it go out and get it yourself, don't rely on game mechanics... your killer didn't. That's just being unfair to people who are roleplaying in a different faction.
They've stated that one of their main design goals is for it to be close to the feel of the tabletop. How frequently does your character get killed and take revenge for it 3 minutes later? Never, because raising takes time. Which leaves you plotting revenge if you want revenge.
Plot your revenge. It's so much sweeter that way anyway.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It's a video game so none of it is "dangerous", unless you consider eye strain and carpal tunnel dangerous.
No system or flags or other such nonsense should be put in place. Especially not to fulfill someones desire to feel the instant gratification of a revenge killing. If it wasn't a video game you wouldn't have the opportunity for a revenge killing in the first place since you'd be dead. If you want it go out and get it yourself, don't rely on game mechanics... your killer didn't. That's just being unfair to people who are roleplaying in a different faction.
They've stated that one of their main design goals is for it to be close to the feel of the tabletop. How frequently does your character get killed and take revenge for it 3 minutes later? Never, because raising takes time. Which leaves you plotting revenge if you want revenge.
Plot your revenge. It's so much sweeter that way anyway.
Well again I still think that log off mid fight kind of kills the entire plotting revenge scenerio. OK so I'm fighting a monster, boom bopped in the back of the head by person X. I charge back to the area where I was killed but he's gone. I finally anticipate where person X will be next week, line up, set up the ambush, have him surrounded on all sides, as soon as I come out, poof he's gone, time wasted again.
See the initiator has a huge edge, because in the first fight, he knows he's going to kill you, you have no idea he is hostile, after the initial attack, he knows your name and your faction/guild etc... and can opt to poof log off every time he sees you.
As far as in P&P, actually yes 90% of the time if you die, your team mates KO the person who killed you immediately afterwards. Leaving room for 5% of the time when they run away, and the 5% of the time it results in a TPK. Very few DMs set up enemies that come in to strike one person, and then run away from the scene of the crime like a bat out of hell, mainly because that is one sure fire way to tick off and ruin the day of players, and certainly an easy way to lose players if you do it on a regular basis.
The player himself he already is at a handicap to hunt down the killer, he's been sent back to wherever he spawns which could be anywhere from 2 minutes to X hours away, his ally's/team mates on the other hand should likely be near by and should get a chance to get revenge and attempt to recover whatever was taken.
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Goblin Squad Member
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A character that has been engaged in PvP, even as a target, in the last 15 minutes, will stay in game for some time after logging off...
This seems to invite griefing by having someone simply attack another player, even if they can't kill them, to keep them from being able to log off.
No system or flags or other such nonsense should be put in place. Especially not to fulfill someones desire to feel the instant gratification of a revenge killing...
The whole point of these suggestions is to continue the discussion of how to use game mechanics to discourage griefing in an Open PvP environment. That discussion got started because there are a lot of us who've had very, very unpleasant experiences with random griefers in other games who kill for nothing more than the pleasure of dominating someone far less powerful. It sounds like you're more interested in making sure nothing interferes with the griefer.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This seems to invite griefing by having someone simply attack another player, even if they can't kill them, to keep them from being able to log off.
It could, but there seems to be a pretty big weakness to it. Bottom line starting the attack will give them the same drawbacks as initiating the fight for any other reason (person attacked will likely either fight back, or call for aid to fight back). Personally I have a feeling that the majority of the time, logging out should and will in most cases be done in a safe haven or town (mainly because no matter what when you sign in, you don't wanna pop into the middle of a large battle or next to an enemy that you had no intention of fighting before you even get your bearings), and odds are you are going to want to tweak your skills, set up your shop or something else just before you log out.
So basically 5% of the time when someone is trying to log out in a vulnerable area, and the griefer somehow can mind-read that the person is intending to log out, he can delay someone from being able to safely log out for 15 minutes. That sounds reasonable to me compared to the alternative.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Sounds like your players have that nasty "I'm not backing down!" problem. Generally, when I'm in a party that loses someone we retreat, revive, re-evaluate and return (if appropriate). Which leads to a low TPK rate.
But in this age of MMOs with amazing features like logs there is really no way to not know who killed you. Unless they implement some sort of stealth system in PFO that allows you to hide such things. And in that case, a flag means absolutely nothing unless you take away that character's ability to stealth during that period. That would be so incredibly unfair that nobody would ever play such a class in a PvP environment since your main strength would, in fact, be a weakness.
If you get ganked by an assailant who properly hides their identity, why should you get a free pass? No, that's unfair to their character who was purpose built for stealth.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Sounds like your players have that nasty "I'm not backing down!" problem. Generally, when I'm in a party that loses someone we retreat, revive, re-evaluate and return (if appropriate). Which leads to a low TPK rate.
Not really, TPKs are not common in my games, I believe I've had maybe 1 TPK in 7 years of DMing, nor am I a huge fan of opening with an instant kill on a PC (even in the 3.5 days I pretty much houseruled out most save or dies for either side). In general about 80% of player deaths happen late in a brutal fight in which both sides are at their last legs, at which point they know that if they retreat and rest/heal etc... their opponent is doing the same thing so unless they are severely outmatched, something most of my players are capable of figuring out before the first death.
But in this age of MMOs with amazing features like logs there is really no way to not know who killed you. Unless they implement some sort of stealth system in PFO that allows you to hide such things. And in that case, a flag means absolutely nothing unless you take away that character's ability to stealth during that period. That would be so incredibly unfair that nobody would ever play such a class in a PvP environment since your main strength would, in fact, be a weakness.
Stealth should have advantages, and counters. IMO there should be a stealth skill, and a spot skill. When the victim's ally's are called to the scene, there should be certain members who have the ability to detect the stealthy person in some way shape or form. It still is an advantage because it hides from 80+% of them, but no stealth should not be true invisibility in a world without true seeing, it should be a good ability of which there is a good counter for.
Bottom line I am in favor of people having the right to attempt to attack, kill, and profit from such a lifestyle, I am in favor of permitting bandits. The bandit lifestyle should not be an easy one, it should not be handed to anyone on a silver platter. It should be risky, it should be difficult, high risk and high reward should be the result of it. Giving free cop-out methods to eliminate the risk, and then expect to keep the reward, is ridiculous and will result in nothing more than 3/4ths of the population being nothing but bandits, people will not bother trying to earn anything because it will be taken from them with no hope of getting it back. Bottom line yes if you are a person who regularly has to AFK with no warning, a bandit's lifestyle should not be for you, much like if you regularly have to AFK without warning in WoW, being the guilds main tank or healer for a raid, is not going to work.
If you get ganked by an assailant who properly hides their identity, why should you get a free pass? No, that's unfair to their character who was purpose built for stealth.
This I don't completely disagree with you on, I do believe the other players of the victims faction should get a shot to try and find a character in the area. Maybe they have no idea who they are looking for, but very likely they will hunt and possibly kill every sneakyish character they see in that area who is not a member of their faction/guild.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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This is where a ranger comes into play as well though. If you want to find someone you need a ranger friend. A flag should never be the answer, having a tracker on your side should. Or plotting disproportionate revenge for quasi-imagined slights, should they not hide their identity. Then you wait until they are almost dead from fighting a mob and you reciprocate their unpleasant ganking.
If it's not worth several hours effort, then why should the devs give you a free 15 minute window?
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Goblin Squad Member
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This is where a ranger comes into play as well though. If you want to find someone you need a ranger friend. A flag should never be the answer, having a tracker on your side should. Or plotting disproportionate revenge for quasi-imagined slights, should they not hide their identity. Then you wait until they are almost dead from fighting a mob and you reciprocate their unpleasant ganking.
If it's not worth several hours effort, then why should the devs give you a free 15 minute window?
I think we are thinking different things for a flag. By flag I am thinking a note on the character, visible only to the character himself, that he cannot sign off for 15 minutes, and a countdown for it.
As far as a marker for others I don't support more than a stationary mark on the map that says "_____ was killed here" I am not and as far as I know no one else is talking about you being on the map and your exact location mapped for the next 15 minutes.
I am not calling for your location to be known for the 15 minutes after you gank someone, I am calling for the person to have the potential to be found for 15 minutes after ganking someone. Hiding, running off into the woods in a difficult to predict direction, etc... should all be possible. Poofing offline, or having perfect unbeatable stealth that cannot be beaten via any methods, or insta teleport to the other side of the world on the other hand, should not.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It's one thing to beat someone in PVP combat. It's another to say that you should deny them the ability to play entirely...
Yeah, the "not well thought-out" thing is really shining through :)
When I posted it, I had it in my mind that it would be for the duration of a specific battle, maybe 15 minutes at the very most if you died early in the combat. But even that could be really harsh if that's your only character.
Still, it seems like there ought to be something that stops you from just coming back to the same fight over and over. Or am I wrong about that? I seem to remember someone saying one of the advantages of being a defender is that your faction's spawn point would be close by, so you'd have an easier time rejoining the battle. Maybe that's better?
*shrugs*
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I am not calling for your location to be known for the 15 minutes after you gank someone, I am calling for the person to have the potential to be found for 15 minutes after ganking someone. Hiding, running off into the woods in a difficult to predict direction, etc... should all be possible. Poofing offline, or having perfect unbeatable stealth that cannot be beaten via any methods, or insta teleport to the other side of the world on the other hand, should not.
I must say that I disagree with refusing to allow them to log off. Also, if they have a scroll of teleport then I would argue that being a jerk is not grounds for denying them access to it.
If they have to log off every time they see you to avoid you then they are missing out on quality gametime. Especially if you harry them in the days following the incident when it is during a time of your choosing rather than theirs.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am not calling for your location to be known for the 15 minutes after you gank someone, I am calling for the person to have the potential to be found for 15 minutes after ganking someone. Hiding, running off into the woods in a difficult to predict direction, etc... should all be possible. Poofing offline, or having perfect unbeatable stealth that cannot be beaten via any methods, or insta teleport to the other side of the world on the other hand, should not.I must say that I disagree with refusing to allow them to log off. Also, if they have a scroll of teleport then I would argue that being a jerk is not grounds for denying them access to it.
If they have to log off every time they see you to avoid you then they are missing out on quality gametime. Especially if you harry them in the days following the incident when it is during a time of your choosing rather than theirs.
No matter what this game is going to require fast travel to be somewhere between extremely rare, and non-existent, so I don't think there should be a scroll of teleport (unless they are very expensive) to deny him access to. The lack of easy access to fast travel is necessary for any meaningful separation of economy, challenge of transporting goods, and the idea that to get the most value out of a resource it has to be taken to multiple places to have any value, fast travel cannot be cheap, if present at all.
Again the main reasoning is someone ganking in your the victims back yard. The ganker would only be in the victims back yard when he is in the mood to gank, when he is leveling/gathering etc... on his own time, he will likely be in his own back yard, an area in which the victim would need to be looking over his shoulder every few seconds as he is most likely to be killed on sight by anyone in that area. Easy enough of a strategy to find a handful of random people, but finding a specific person you are hunting would take the act of a diety. (remember the total area of the game at launch is going to be 133 sq miles)
The issue again is the ganker, slipping into someone else territory, killing and looting a few people, and then signing off before any opposition or danger to himself arrives, then slipping back when it is safe.
Here is the scenerio I really dislike the thought of. Killer goes hunting in enemy roughly 30-45 minutes away from his hometown at 11:45PM (when he's about to go to bed), he slips around avoiding main traveled areas, gets to an area he sees the weaker opponents farming, kills 3 of them, poofs for the night, signs back on at 3pm the next day, easily escapes as nobody is searching that area for him anymore, jogs back into his home territory to do everything he wants more or less unfettered, in the 1-2% chance his enemies even work up a search party to go digging through his alliences back yard, he pops out of existance, but for the most part he's far enough into his territory that all he would need to watch out for is some other random ganker with a similar style to himself.
The idea of revenge with no need for knowledge of timing etc.. IE get him back the next time you see him, isn't particularly functional when the playing field is 133 sq miles large. If you are going to catch someone, you have to strike them back within a few minutes of the crime, otherwise just give up, the quest to hunt down 1 person over such a huge area is a needle in a haystack.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Just because you don't want to put in the legwork doesn't mean other people aren't willing.
First: This game is going to have a few major NPC groups but guilds will likely be varied and vast in number. I don't see a Hellknight being attacked by a Paladin of Iomodae just for being in their area, or vice versa. One group is LG the other LN per canon. And a bandit from the place yet to be named just looks like a traveler in either stronghold. Not much in the way of auto-hate if you ask me. If they run it any other way I would be sorely disappointed and likely not play after finding that out. So playing in someone else's back yard being dangerous would require a guild with an attack on sight policy. Not very productive for trade. I don't see too many inhabited areas being outright hostile to players that don't prove themselves to be opposed.
Second: As I stated, a ranger is your friend. If they are going to include the ranger archetype it would only make sense that they be able to track other players. Without this feature I would repeat my potential disdain for the design of the game and would likely cease participating. Especially since that is my favorite character type.
Third: The only fast travel they should include in the game is re-spawning when you die, horses, and expensive teleportation magic. I'm thinking teleportation gates or circles for more stable and long term methods of fast travel. But regardless, I believe fast travel from the middle of nowhere would diminish the game.
I repeat, however, if you don't want to put in the effort for your revenge you should not get an easy button. It is a game and a player has the right to choose how and when to play it. Being a jerk is not and should not be against the rules.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I repeat, however, if you don't want to put in the effort for your revenge you should not get an easy button. It is a game and a player has the right to choose how and when to play it. Being a jerk is not and should not be against the rules.
Explain the legwork someone can do? First off this is 9 hours after the fact if you let the person sign off immidiately after killing you, you don't know if he's going to sign on in 1 hour, or 3 days, we'll assume he signs back on that character in 6 hours before making his escape, your side guesses he might have signed back on 12 hours later, since that's the best guess they have (unless you really think they are going to camp his spawn for hours/days on end, and if you think that is anyones idea of fun).
OK so now we have a ranger with track.. since you agree his name probably shouldn't necessarally be anounced, and odds are track will show every set of footprints as to where anyone has passed through that area in the last 24/48 hours... so now we've got 20 sets of footprints in 20 areas. Odds are whatever group this person was in, was probably one that is hostile to your side... if you are assuming bandits are usually going to be lone wolves and could be anywhere, then you can just search all 133 sq miles, and hope he's online in the area where you are searching....
OK so 3 days down the tubes now as you got lucky and your band of warriors found him in only searching 25 square miles of territory nonstop for 3 days.... you begin to approach... oh woops he logged off again....
but... you camp out the spawn and he signs on in just 24 hours.... Yaay you are right this is fun I can't imagine most people not putting in this kind of legwork...
Also I don't quite see what you are meaning by the hellnights vs immodae, I am talking about player faction territory, which odds are the borders will be enforced. In eve they generally have a term "Not blue shoot it", meaning kill anyone in your territory who isn't in your corporation or an allied corporation, why is that unlikely to carry out here? NPC factions are irrelevant, player factions have their own laws.
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option 2. He can't respawn, you are killed by him, you arive at the spot where he killed you, you've got 3 or 4 directions he could have gone, you have about a 50/50 chance of finding him before he makes it back into his own territory.
Option 2 is a fair shot, a game of cat and mouse that is challanging for both sides, option 1 is a free win for the ganker barring the person killed actually dedicating a week or more to his revenge, and having a ton of friends willing to do the same.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Except that you get your tracker out there sooner rather than later. He finds the tracks that are as old as yours but aren't yours and tracks them back to the source. Tracks age and skilled trackers can group them together by time frames. You make it out to be impossible to track them, but I wonder if you've ever tracked anything. Made even easier if you figure out which tracks are his and have a companion to track by scent. You are aware that a dog can track a person's scent in a moving vehicle (truth)?
Again, just because someone doesn't want to put in the effort doesn't mean someone else should be forced to stay logged on. If anything, logging off actually helps since your group could station a guard or patrol in that area and catch him when he logs back on.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Except that you get your tracker out there sooner rather than later. He finds the tracks that are as old as yours but aren't yours and tracks them back to the source. Tracks age and skilled trackers can group them together by time frames. You make it out to be impossible to track them, but I wonder if you've ever tracked anything. Made even easier if you figure out which tracks are his and have a companion to track by scent. You are aware that a dog can track a person's scent in a moving vehicle (truth)?
Again, just because someone doesn't want to put in the effort doesn't mean someone else should be forced to stay logged on. If anything, logging off actually helps since your group could station a guard or patrol in that area and catch him when he logs back on.
you are in favor of the killer logging out after he kills you... so you send your tracker out.. he finds they end roughly where your corpse was, as that was where the killer logged out.
Yes I am aware of the effectiveness of tracking in the real world, mainly because people don't blink out of existence for unpredictable amounts of time. Your method of tracking makes sense for option 2. Still falls flat when you are talking about letting him kill and sign out immediately afterwards.
I think that that most important thing one must ask oneself when considering any feature is in what way it would be enjoyable.
What is the point of locking out the person you've killed out of battle?
What kind of fun (because this is a game, and hopefully fun would be the main focus here) do you bring to the person who is locked out of game, and the person who has to stay logged in for killing his opponent?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Why should he be able to log back in and be where he logged out, if that territory is hostile to him?
Well why should he be allowed to log back in back at safe harbor if he killed in hostile territory. An assasination is supposed to have 3 parts to the challange, get in, get the kill and get out alive. No matter how you look at it, logging off right after killing negates the get back out alive part of it. If you allow him to auto teleport out of hostile territory, then you've given step 3 for free, even if you allow him to spawn back at the point where he did sign out, you are letting him do so in a time when the heat is gone, the search is off etc...
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Actually, the CIA handbook on assassinations is more lenient:Why should he be able to log back in and be where he logged out, if that territory is hostile to him?Well why should he be allowed to log back in back at safe harbor if he killed in hostile territory. An assasination is supposed to have 3 parts to the challange, get in, get the kill and get out alive. No matter how you look at it, logging off right after killing negates the get back out alive part of it. If you allow him to auto teleport out of hostile territory, then you've given step 3 for free, even if you allow him to spawn back at the point where he did sign out, you are letting him do so in a time when the heat is gone, the search is off etc...
If the assassin is to die with the subject, the act will be called "lost." If the assassin is to escape, the adjective will be "safe." It should be noted that no compromises should exist here. The assassin must not fall alive into enemy hands.
If the job was to assassinate the target and escape, the job was failed. If the job was to assassinate the target and die, the job was failed. If the job was to assassinate the target and avoid the penalties associated with logging out in enemy territory, the job was failed.
As for what that penalty should be: Making camp in hostile territory creates a tent building belonging to you. If that building is destroyed, you suffer penalties substantially similar to those of dying in that territory. Exceptions might be made in cases where the a massive real-world event causes a substantial percentage of the players online to drop within a short time, or not.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am really starting to like the idea of character persistence...in whatever form. This may just be your character sets up a camp and "sleeps" where you log out. Tracking skill? Works just fine. Kill him in his sleep with full/partial loot and he rezes at a temple in his own territory upon waking...naked.
Or, per the employment idea, the ganker and is forced to walk back to his own lands (or at least neutral lands) because his character can find work...and why waste the time you are logged out if you could make some money. Once again you track him, find him at work...(as he is now an NPC automating some labor)...you either decide to have a chat with his employer who either in turn "fires the guy" or tells you to piss off, or you decide to wait him out (probably not a good idea for you to attack him in public). Either way, you and your friends know exactly where he is and where he will be when he logs on. Camp in the woods and follow him when he logs on...and get your revenge.
Even if he returns to his house or fortress and "sleeps", you can still do the same.
I am really starting to like the idea of character persistence...in whatever form. This may just be your character sets up a camp and "sleeps" where you log out. Tracking skill? Works just fine. Kill him in his sleep with full/partial loot and he rezes at a temple in his own territory upon waking...naked.
How about we implementing a system where your character persists in the world for a certain amount of time when you log out depending on *where* you log out? For example, if a character logs out within his property or house. His character will remain inactive for 15 minutes. However if you venture out into the wilderness and log out randomly in neutrual or wild territory your character will remain inactive for an hour. If perhaps you happen to plan ahead and bring a temporary camp with you that was made by a ranger archetype and you set it up in the wilderness (which takes 5 minutes or so) when you log off within that camp your character will remain inactive for 20 minutes and such.
