The way they are presented in Bestiary 3 is nice, but it conflicts with my elves a whole lot, and I already have problems with elves and "Native Americans" conflicting with each other. I don't need a third race flung into that mix. That said, I do want Catfolk, and I want them to be common enough to be core so far as the campaign setting is concerned. I could use some help figuring out what role to put the Catfolk in that doesn't conflict with my other races. Does anyone have any ideas for me?
Here's general campaign setting info and race info to help you guys help me.
Thyressa is a continent, and roughly analogous to North America.
My first thought was make them nocturnal. Their normal work day is from dusk to dawn. As such, they would probably prefer warmer climates, and would do better in hot climates. They could be a very organized group of desert dwellers. The don't mix much with other races mainly because of the differing time schedule.
The thing is, I already have about as much focus on Native Americans in the campaign setting as I do Europeans and Asians, so I can't go the Na'vi route. Besides, I have "actual" Native Americans and elves that are like Native Americans, as well as Native Americans who happen to be elves. I don't need another Native American like race. Splitting elves and Native Americans culture wise is hard enough.
My first thought was make them nocturnal. Their normal work day is from dusk to dawn. As such, they would probably prefer warmer climates, and would do better in hot climates. They could be a very organized group of desert dwellers. The don't mix much with other races mainly because of the differing time schedule.
I don't have a problem with nocturnal, but desert dwelling is an issue.
How about ancient Egyptian culture? Also, they should be aloof. Like Morris.
My first thought was make them nocturnal. Their normal work day is from dusk to dawn. As such, they would probably prefer warmer climates, and would do better in hot climates. They could be a very organized group of desert dwellers. The don't mix much with other races mainly because of the differing time schedule.I don't have a problem with nocturnal, but desert dwelling is an issue.
The desert dwelling lets them not come into direct conflict with other races as they prefer to inhabit places most others avoid. This plus their nocturnal schedule explains why they might be seperate from other races without forcing them to be primative.
I would play up the value of individuality in the culture, almost making it a non-culture. Have the cats just wander away when they come of age, potentially befriending others of their kind, but having little value for the family unit. A "tribe," in this case, is more likely to be a group that bands together based on location, outlook and need than it is to be a family unit. Most would simply be loners.
Off topic, I so have to find a game I can be a player in, just to play one of these.
Well keeping in mind that nomadic does not need to mean Native American. I would consider an old Arabian style culture with scimitars, Jambiyas (curved daggers), etc. And I like the idea of being nocturnal; it fits well in my opinion. So I’d try something like this…
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Catfolk are a nomadic people known far and wide as the merchants of the desert, traveling from oasis to oasis buying and selling goods. After arriving at an oasis, they often settle in for a few days buying and selling their goods with any that they welcome into their camps. During this time they have music and dancing and often party and enjoy themselves until sunrise at which point they relax and sleep through the hot desert days until they can do it all again the following night.
After a few days the catfolk pack their belongings and move out once again for one of the many oasis they regularly frequent. In stark contrast to their behavior at an oasis, when traveling overland they develop a serious demeanor knowing that the desert can be a roughed and dangerous place, moving quietly with a fluid grace and beauty while staying alert for potential threats. Camps that are not at an oasis are quiet as well, the catfolk relax, sleep and enjoy themselves but almost always break camp at dusk to continue traveling.
Most other races get along with the catfolk well enjoying their hospitality, frivolity, and wares. But all of their neighbors quickly learn that the campfire and sounds of a party are an invitation to all to come and trade. In contrast, those approaching during the day or out away from an oasis are likely to be turned away and are often watched. Anyone that ignores their warnings may swiftly find themselves at the point of a blade. Consequently, while other races typically get along well with catfolk they also recognize that they are territorial and must be approached cautiously if not “celebrating”.
Catfolk wares – As nomads catfolk collect a great many items on their travels and are always looking for items that they know they will be able to sell elsewhere for a profit. They do not typically consider themselves bound by rules of other governments and often can be found selling things that are considered illegal elsewhere such as poisons and other black market items.
Characters that frequently do business with a particular tribe will often find that over time as they do more and more business with them the merchant(s) they trade with tend to have a growing selection of items that they would want. This is simply a result of their merchants keeping an eye out for items they know will be bought. In fact if a character establishes a good relationship with a catfolk merchant they may even tell the merchant what they are looking for and at some point in the future if an opportunity presents itself the merchant may well “acquire” the item knowing it’s almost certain to be sold. Of course to maintain the good relationship the character will be expected to purchase the item as long as it is offered at a reasonable price.
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k, well I did a little more work on this then I intended but there you go, feel free to steal any of it that you like :)
Thanks for the ideas. Revel, Middle Eastern doesn't work because everything is focused on North America at the moment, and any future expansion of the setting is likely to go into South America and Australia before anywhere else, but the nomadic part I like very much, and I also like Darkwing Duck's oath idea. I think I could combine the two.
Middle Eastern doesn't work because everything is focused on North America at the moment, and any future expansion of the setting is likely to go into South America and Australia...
That's interesting, I take it you use real world maps for your campaign world?
Middle Eastern doesn't work
Not a problem, sounds like it's not just the maps you use since you could of course still use other cultures in your "North American" area ;P hopefully the rest is useful to you.
I don't have a problem with nocturnal, but desert dwelling is an issue.
If you are using North America as a "map" for your campaign their is plenty of desert in the Texas and New Mexico area. On the other hand you could always think more along the lines of gypsies. Simply moving across country from one town to the next stopping a ways away to sell their wares with those that come to them (to prevent problems with illegal wares etc).
Anyway good luck flushing them out, post a link when here when you have them figured out, I'm curious what the end result will be :)
I use real world maps an inspiration for how the game map will eventually look and where the countries are placed. Once I have maps, they will look at lot like their real life analogues, though not 100% identical. When I say North America, I do mean that culturally and ecologically, not just geographically. Native Americans and European colonists are everywhere on the continent, and in the west there are a lot of Asian colonists, though the Europeans have the monopoly.
As for desert not working, it's that I want Catfolk to be a race that one can find all over the continent, not just the desert regions. I don't have a problem with having desert cats, but I want arctic cats, jungle cats, forest cats, and the like as well.
The idea of heavy Roma inspiration does work well for me.
I have another idea for Catfolk: ethnic variations on animal. What does this mean? Dogfolk. Kitsune. Ratlings. The stats are always the same (I use modified, simplistic stats for all races that allow them to shine in many roles), but the appearance differs, and different animals are seen as being different ethnic groups.
They should have these for when they encounter other humanoids.
"Gypsy" refers to an itinerant way of life. Its not inherently a racist slur. It can be used as a racist slur. Its as much, and no more, of a racist slur as "redneck" is.
I use real world maps an inspiration for how the game map will eventually look and where the countries are placed. Once I have maps, they will look at lot like their real life analogues, though not 100% identical. When I say North America, I do mean that culturally and ecologically, not just geographically. Native Americans and European colonists are everywhere on the continent, and in the west there are a lot of Asian colonists, though the Europeans have the monopoly.
As for desert not working, it's that I want Catfolk to be a race that one can find all over the continent, not just the desert regions. I don't have a problem with having desert cats, but I want arctic cats, jungle cats, forest cats, and the like as well.
The idea of heavy Roma inspiration does work well for me.
I don't mean to be rude, but Gypsy is an ethnic slur.
Really? Well if it offends anyone I apologize as I have never heard that before. Looking it up on wikipedia I'm a bit confused...
The English term Gypsy (or Gipsy) originates from the Greek word for "Egyptian", Αιγύπτιοι (Aigyptioi, whence modern Greek γύφτοι gifti), in the belief that the Romanies, or some other Gypsy groups (such as the Balkan Egyptians), originated in Egypt, and in one narrative were exiled as punishment for allegedly harbouring the infant Jesus.[29] This exonym is sometimes written with capital letter, to show that it designates an ethnic group.[30] The term 'gypsy' appears when international research programmes, documents and policies on the community are referred to. However, as a term 'gypsy' is considered derogatory by many members of the Roma community because of negative and stereotypical associations with the term.
What negative/stereotypical associations? I mean being accused of harboring the infant Jesus seems like it would be considered a good thing in most societies today (though not admittedly not all). Also, there is apparently a Romani hip hop group named gipsy? Guess I'm just not sure what to make of it but as I said, I'm not trying to offend anyone... I would however like to be more certain of the words usage.
The last sentence of the article points it out. It's kind of like blacks and the N word. Some may drop it all the time, but it's still offensive.
Like I said, I'm not trying to be rude or critical. I just wanted to point that out. No harm done.
I don't know much about your setting but my own two cents worth of advice are to look at the Shifter section of Races of Ebberon for some ideas. And if there's no particular place for a catfolk homeland in your campaigns immediate area have their homeland be known for hiring out it's warriors as mercenaries for one faction or another.
I have another idea for Catfolk: ethnic variations on animal. What does this mean? Dogfolk. Kitsune. Ratlings. The stats are always the same (I use modified, simplistic stats for all races that allow them to shine in many roles), but the appearance differs, and different animals are seen as being different ethnic groups.
Not quite sure about this, mainly the part were you say that the stats are always the same. For example, I keep trying to picture elephantfolk that are dexterous and the images of say an elephantfolk wielding a rapier seem a bit silly to me.
If you are keeping the same stats I'd be tempted to stay with the idea of different types of cats like panthers, lions, cheetahs, etc. myself. While the other could be fun I believe keeping the same stats would over simplify them.
A note on the word gypsy spoilered so as to avoid derailing this thread any more then I already have... sorry about that btw.
So why is it strange and how should it be used or should it be used at all?
Well one of the things that makes it odd is that gypsy and Gypsy are not always considered the same word (this is mainly true for non-Roma). Lowercase is used when referring to the lifestyle and uppercase is used when referring to ethnicity. Of course there is no difference in pronunciation so that complicates things even further.
Regardless of how it is used many Roma find this term offensive. But here is the other strange part, many other Roma couldn’t care less and in some circumstances even use the word themselves in a non-derogatory manner.
Both of these can lead to confusion on how it should be used. Ultimately, since there are quite a few people that would be offended by its usage it's better to error on the side of caution and avoid it’s usage even if, like me, you don’t even see the word as derogatory yourself. After all it’s best to do what you can to avoid offending anyone. This is especially true in a public forum like this one.
If anyone wants to look it up for themselves, type Is gypsy offensive, or Is gypsy a racial slur into google and read.
Incidentally, I suspect a significant part of the continued usage of the word is a result of the depiction of the lifestyle. When most think of nomadic people, wagons, and possibly fortunetellers they think of the word gypsy. Even now I can't think of any other word that portrays that lifestyle, though perhaps I'm merely drawing a blank… can anyone else?
I'm not creating elephantfolk, or anything else from a really big mammal.
Plus, ability score modifiers were the first thing to go when I redid races. Catfolk have a predilection for dexterity, but that is fluff, not a mechanic. A Catfolk PC can put it's physical ability score bonus anywhere, to represent the fact that adventurers are not standard Catfolk, they are unusual. They may be dextrous like most, but they could also be strong instead. A different ethnic group could have different ability fluff.
Talks with Animals
The various cats are pretty different. You have the social lions, berserker snow leopards, cautious leopards, extremely shy lynxes... But what people want to play tends to be housecats in human form. First off, then, they have no concept of flock. It is their mother and their siblings, but only if they haven't been away for too long. They are extremely neurotic and conservative, and want things to remain as they always have been. They are nocturnal, and hunt for pleasure. They sleep most of the time, 9-20 hours per day. They like being in control, and that means being able to see their surroundings, preferably without being seen in turn. They spend a lot of time grooming, and love cuddling if they feel safe. I will make an attempt to translate this usefully later.
If you have them in a North American setting, I don't see a way to really avoid the "Native American" problems. The most likely version would be based off of the mountain lion/cougar. This cat is more closely related to domestic felines than to the big cats, which makes them perfect for the basis of catfolk. I would look up info on the cougar and try to imagine a society evolved from that. You could mix in a little bit from the Native American mountain tribes to flesh out the rest.
If you're willing to play with the stats -- a -2 to STR and an additional +2 to DEX -- you could have a Small variant catfolk based on domestic cats, bobcats, lynxes, etc. The Medium catfolk could be descended from big cats. A total +4 to DEX might be too much for some players/GMs/settings though.
I'd go against the majority though and make catfolk tend toward crepuscular activity instead of nocturnal.
You could mix in some more flavor with things like making catfolk obligate carnivores, odd-eyed/heterochromia, those with calico patterns nearly all female, or variants that have very short or no tails.
I don't do racial stats at all. It pigeon holes races too much. I leave that to fluff.
The rest I'll think about.
What sort of Native American culture(s) do your current elves and NAs most resemble? There are such a wide variety of different NA cultures- North, South, Central- that you could pull ideas from for your catfolk which would make them still very distinct from the others.
The ideas of mixing some RW cat proclivities in with cultural traits are good ones, too. Sun gods and themes based around the sun are common traits among most tribal cultures; how would that differ when your primary object of worship is not the Sun but the Moon? Concepts of agriculture (if they exist) would be very different among a nocturnal race, too. Perhaps their agriculture revolves around some kind of vegetation that flourishes at night, rather than the day? Etc.
I find felines difficult. There are two ways to deal with this. The first is to have numerous clan structures so someone can play mysterious assassin pather, or noble lion paladin, or tiger mystic. Having different fluff pulling from the cats personality. Or to treat them as a monolithic race with wide variety of markings and hair length. Thus Panthro and Cheatara can give birth to Tigra. If you do not want tribal nomads. You might want to think Mezzo American city states scatttered throughout your map.
If you are trying to keep North American in feel but avoiding Native Americans the cats could be like Vikings from across the sea, or colonies of cats from across the sea.
Ok, here goes.
Catfolk are a race, but they do not have a society, nor a culture per se. They would claim that the things they do that all other catfolk also happen to do is done because it is the sensible thing to do. They are born in litters to mothers who raise them herself. Indeed, a kitten's father will treat said mother and any children as intruders and competitors were they to meet him. While young, they get along with their mother and their siblings, however, this lasts only a few years. As soon as the mother considers them able to survive on their own, she kicks them out of her territory. The only close relationship that lasts for a catperson is one to a sibling he or she hasn't been separated from for too long. Mating is a process of scents and regular mating periods. Now, all this does not mean a catperson will not cooperate with others, they are intelligent after all, it just means that their relationships tend to be short term and business-focused. Catpersons also have no real sense of sympathy for anyone less fortunate. They live in a harsh world where failure means death, and generally do not question this. They also do not beg when in need themselves, but instead will try stealing or violence.
Catpersons survive by stealth and paranoia. They keep watch for enemies, and they even sleep lightly. Sleep they do, however. Their normal cycle is to be awake for most of the night, then sleep all through the day. To survive doing this, they are masters of finding hidden places to sleep, or to watch others without being seen. As for food, they only eat meat, and would prefer playing with it, if they didn't know others would object to this.
Catfolk prefer it when things do not change. They know their situations and surroundings very well, and will usually protest even against clear improvements. They know what they have, but not what they might get.
In the wild, they find an area and live off it. Intruders will be fought vigorously, unless they can convince the catperson that they are passing through or want to talk. Likewise, in a city, the catperson will carve out a niche for him- or herself, and then defend that to the death if need be, whether that niche is a neighbourhood, a thief guild, or a certain market.
There is a saying, that if you want to be able to trust a catperson, you need to pay him.
Yes you can.
Oh, great. Now I have to go watch Washington. Washington, Washington, twelve stories high made of radiation...
I like the idea of Roma catfolk.
As far as environment,
in my own games catfolk live in two general locations.
1) Savannah's. Those that live on the savannah are mostly cheetah/lion types. The lion types tend to be lawful good, and the cheetah types CN. The cheetah's are nomads, living in no fixed cities (other than pariahs that live in the cities). The lion folk prefer cities (pride mentality vs individualism).
2) Jungles/Swamps. Those that live in the jungles and swamps tend to be the Tiger/Jaguar/Cougar types. In my world, the Tiger's live in the swamps and jungles, and are very standoffish of outsiders, and also fierce warriors, NN. Very territorial. The Jaguar/Cougar types tend to live just in the jungles and warm forests. They're much more companionable toward other races, and like mental puzzles. Very much more thinkers than the other tribes. They are mostly CG, and are perfectly happy to deal with outsiders (either in a friendly manner or with claws and teeth, depending on how the outsiders behave).
