Hello All,
I am new to Pathfinder. Back in the day I used to play AD&D 2nd edition. I have been out of the loop quite a while. My wife has played Everquest but never a PnP RPG but it sounds interesting to her. For Christmas she got me a Basic set, Core Rules, GameMastery, and Ultimite Magic. Time is short as I have a full time job, go to school for engineering, and have 4 children 6 and under... but it would be great if we could have a bit o fun with Pathfinder.
She would like to play a bit with me DMing and her running in an adventure. She played the "solo" adventure in the Beginner Box with me assisting and she really enjoyed it. I am afraid if she runs 4 characters it will just be too much. I am afraid if I run a PC or many PCs some of the flavor will go out of the game. I don't believe I can balance a Paizo module for a single PC (a fighter at that).
I am sure we are not the first husband wife team to run into this issue. I saw a bit on this very topic on the GameMastery book but I have yet to get thought all of the Basic Box literature yet! =)
Thoughts and ideas?
Thanks,
Braxon
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Invite some friends over to play?
Otherwise here's my general advice for solo adventures.
The APL for a single PC is character level -3. This means a single goblin presents a standard challenge. Furthermore encourage her to play characters with companions: druid (animal companion), from APG summoner or cavalier.
The core rules have details on hirelings so subservient NPCs shouldn't be a big deal.
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Inviting over another couple would be a good solution, and you might make some friends out of it. There are plenty of resources to find people in your area, and you can do it via e-mail if you want first, to sort of feel them out (if you prefer).
The first place is right here on the boards, in the gamer connection forum.
Another place is Nearby Gamers, which is site that actually helps you find people near you by Google Maps.
And also Pen & Paper Games which also has forums based by location for finding people, as well as location registration.
Welcome (back) to the gaming life!
Give these a try.
SwnyNerdgasm,
Great exactly what I was looking for!
DM_aka_Dudemeister,
I live about 40min from town, with only a bit of time to play after the kids go to bed. =) Good idea on characters with companions.
Thanks,
Braxon
Give these a try.SwnyNerdgasm,
Great exactly what I was looking for!
DM_aka_Dudemeister,
I live about 40min from town, with only a bit of time to play after the kids go to bed. =) Good idea on characters with companions.
Thanks,
Braxon
I don't think any of them are designed for level 1 characters, but looking through them could give you an idea on how to balance things for a single level 1 fighter
In a solo game, you have to keep the character in mind much more. If an encounter plays to their weakness, it can very easily kill them. Also spells that are save or bad things happen are much deadlier because the one failed save can likely defeat her. So it would wise to write a way for encounters with casters to end in a capture rather than death because of all the debilitating magic out there. Carefully read a monster's entry before using it; some monsters like Vargouille are extra deadly for their CR.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16
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Gestalt is a good tool in a solo game. Played a portion of the Shackled City AP with my wife as a gestalt character a number of years ago and it was doable. I did step down a few of the challenges but it is much easier to run the game if the single PC has a few more tricks than your average PC.
Also if you want to play as a part of a group but have limited available time / live far from other gamers, you might look at the play by posts on the boards and try to get in on one together.
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You can run solo games even with premade adventures. The solo character just needs to be higher level and you might have to adjust things a bit. Plus as someone else linked their is some solo adventures out their as well. Some of them might need to be tweaked as well, since they tend to be written for one class in mind over others.
Some other options is, perhaps let her run two characters. Say a wizard and a fighter. Then you could run a NPC that is with her characters, a cleric. Who focuses on keeping her characters healed and buffing(using spells to make them better). During combat you could let her roll the attack and damage dice for your NPC as well.
My X and I did the above and it worked out just fine. The main thing is read the basic set, learn it. Play it a bit. There is some free adventures for it you can download. Tweak it as you need to work. Once you both have learned the rules pretty well, I would move onto using the core rule book and other stuff. But until then I would just use the basic set.
Anyways I hope things work out and you both have fun. Good Luck.
Some other options is, perhaps let her run two characters. Say a wizard and a fighter. Then you could run a NPC that is with her characters, a cleric. Who focuses on keeping her characters healed and buffing(using spells to make them better).
+1 to this. I've run many one-on-one campaigns, some of them VERY successful, by having the player play 2-3 PCs, while I play 2-3 party members, to get a four- or five-member party.
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You mentioned that you had kids, depending on their ages you could have the extra players you need right there. As unlikely as it seems, RP is a great educational tool, and depending on the age of your kids you could introduce them to pathfinder as a way to help with their math and reading skills. Finally, check out Meetup.com. The advantage of having other players who can help you run the games are many, and its a great way to socialize, not only for yourselves but for your kids too.
I'm in a similar position. After nearly two years of trying, my wife has relented to a game of PF. She played a druid in WoW and expressed interest in the PF version, so we've started making her a 25 point buy druid with a pet panther.
At first, I looked into modules but realized that I'd be better off creating quests for her, starting with a scenario involving some nasty, evil loggers/poachers.
I've run a couple of long term solo Star Wars campaigns in the past, so I have a good idea on how to challenge a single player. Early in her adventure, she will find an NPC adventuring buddy for roleplay and combat help.
As a DM, I find it challenging to create content for a single player...in a good way. I have to create something that will keep my player interested and engaged, especially with her having been so hesitant to play. I look forward to the challenge and wish the OP the best of luck.
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If you want to bring the young ones slowly into the hobby, you might try looking for a copy of "Heroquest" on ebay or something similar. My kids started on that when they were 8 and 6, respectively. Now they're 10 and 8, they just got the Pathfinder beginner box for Christmas and were rp'ing with their dad in no time.
Give these a try.
The One-on-One Adventures Compendium is great. The one caveat you should be aware of is that they are all designed for specific class/level combinations. For example, one is for a rogue level 2-4, another for a wizard level 8-10. This means they won't work well for a campaign, unless you're willing to switch characters frequently. They are great for someone to get their feet wet in the hobby, and might be perfect for your needs. Switching character class/race can also be a great way for both of you to familiarize yourself with the game.
For a first time player/GM, I would suggest sticking to the core book to start with, until you're more familiar with the rules. I'm one of the organizers of our local Pathfinder Society group, and too often I've seen new players that are eager to play become overwhelmed by the multitude of options in all the books. Especially in a one-on-one setting you don't have to worry about being "underpowered" in a group.
Having one character means really emphasizing the roleplaying part of the game (not a bad thing!), and minimizing combat situations. This can be a lot of fun, but is different than what a lot of players are used to.
It can be pretty difficult to get into your character if you are running 2-3 of them... I think toning down encounters is a better solution than playing multiple characters.
I agree with this 100%. Even as an experienced player, I find that running even 2 characters isn't as much fun as focusing on one (let alone three).
Wow All,
This is some really great feedback. Thank you!
erik542,
I think I have heard my friend talk about Gestalt characters. At the time it sounded overpowering and I didn't like the sound of them. Now however, they may have merit.
Dark_Mistress,
Good advice. I remember when we played Baulder's Gate together. She was the "tank/damage dealer" and healed her and let her have fun. She had fun, and I enjoyed playing with her.
If we go Gestalt, she may go Warrior/Cleric and I go Mage/Thief. Being the DM I don't want to color the story (as I know the punch line) but I could stay in the background and pull the thief out for traps and such nefarious activities. If my second class was a Cleric I could just heal her from the background but if it is a mage to round out the group I would have to figure out how to play him without taking all of the "glory". I guess I could just hold my spells back in case an encounter went badly?
How would experienced DMs suggest I play my NPC in the group in such a way as to not color the experience? That sounds tricky to me as again I know the punch line. Thoughts?
Aaron Bitman,
I think if she ran too many characters she may be overwhelmed, but Gestalt may work. I will have to read more up on them but they sound interesting.
Zephyre Al'dran,
I have (4) kids. 1, 2, 4, and 6. The 4 and 6 (when they were 4 and 5) loved watching us play Heroscape Master Set: Battle for the Underdark. It was cool, but a bit too light on the roll-playing for my tastes. I think my wife may be enjoy more of an PnP RPG. My wife and I have talked about playing with the kids when they get older. I think it would be great if done right. =)
KCWM,
I am not sure I am up for designing my own adventures yet. Premade adventures are so nice. That may help us get into the game with as little time spent at least to get our feet wet. If we do ok, maybe when I get out of school I could design a campaign.
Wolfsnap,
Is HeroScape and HeroQuest similar? After I typed that, I did a google search. Maybe we have that from years ago but I cannot remmeber. Would it be one of the better board games to get young ones into RPGing?
Myron Pauls and Stubs McKenzie,
Maybe after we get into the game a bit, I could let her pop around in different solo modules to learn the different characters. Couple that with Stubs suggest and letting her choose different feats until she gets exposed to some different combinations might also help.
Again, great info all!
Thanks,
Braxon
PS. I will see if my Wife wants to read this thread. She may stop by so if you have any advice for her post away. =)
How would experienced DMs suggest I play my NPC in the group in such a way as to not color the experience? That sounds tricky to me as again I know the punch line. Thoughts?
For a two-player game I'm running right now, I threw in a DM party character that was mute. He can still point and grunt, but this effectively prevents him from becoming the voice of the DM.
AHalflingNotAHobbit,
Brilliant!
I just might use that one.
Braxon
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You might also consider letting her play a Magus then maybe if you want a combo type character or perhaps a Paladin if she likes them. They are both combat types that have some good spells to help out.
Another thing that could help out is give her character some starting magic items and make sure she ends up with more than normal. That will help some as well. Combine that with you playing a character to help her out and you shouldn't have to tweak the adventures down to much. They are designed for 4 characters. If you give her a high point buy build, extra magic and then your character it would make them equal to about 3 characters.
Well things have to be toned down even for a gestalt character. Sure in many cases you have all good saves, but two important facts remain. First is action economy. Sending half a dozen goblins at a level 2 party is mildly challenging but far from being highly lethal because for every six turns team goblin gets, the PC's are usually getting four. This is exasperated when there is only one person. Even sending just two goblins can be dangerous against a level 2 character. This can be worked around by ruling that player gets two turns in some fashion. The second is that spells like hold person go from temporarily putting someone out of the fight to instant TPK.
wait for it, wait for it....
bump
Well 2 years later and school is done and we have another potential player in the years to come. =) I have played a few times with my wife and my two oldest (6 and 7). My wife and my kids really liked it so that is three players. That is much easier than just one.
Now that I have more time, I hope to start reading and playing some Pathfinder...
More to come,
Braxon
wait for it, wait for it....
bump
Well 2 years later and school is done and we have another potential player in the years to come. =) I have played a few times with my wife and my two oldest (6 and 7). My wife and my kids really liked it so that is three players. That is much easier than just one.
Now that I have more time, I hope to start reading and playing some Pathfinder...
More to come,
Braxon
My kids are 6 and 7 and I've been thinking about getting them into the game soon. How did it go for you, and what did you run them through? Most of the Pathfinder AP's are a little up there in the Mature Content category.
You might want to check out PFS play scenarios. They are short and simple to run (generally speaking).
My kids are 6 and 7 and I've been thinking about getting them into the game soon. How did it go for you, and what did you run them through? Most of the Pathfinder AP's are a little up there in the Mature Content category.
So far I have just started to teach them the mechanics (along with myself) so we have just done the Beginner Box twice. I changed things up a bit the second time to spice things up but I still wanted to reinforce the main concepts.
My wife has played computer games and it is taking her a few to realize she can attempt anything she can thing of.
I have done a few things to help the kids.
We use the map and pawns for bag guys. Each of them gets a "real" miniature. I bought a 4"x6"x5" wood treasure chest from Hobby Lobby for then they get loot. Inside I put different color glass beads to represent coins and I also got some plastic gems for the same effect. I have a few sets of item cards for the more memorable items too. The really like it when they see a small miniature chest on the map because they know they get to use the big one and see what is inside.
To help them with their addition and subtraction I bought a bunch of poker chips. Right now the red ones represent health. Each player and each bad guy gets a stack so they can see them get lower and lower. It also makes it more real when they get hit and have to remove health chips. I am not sure what I am going to use the other color chips for but it would be cool if I can think of something.
I have a few more simple training runs but I am also worried about about the mature level of the modules.
Regards,
Braxon
... I have a few more simple training runs but I am also worried about about the mature level of the modules.
Regards,
Braxon
That's a very valid concern. But I'm not sure we can help you much with it since we don't know your family and what you consider appropriate.
Some people would say undead opponents are ok, since everyone can understand that zombies, skeletons, and mummies are bad things that need to be stopped. But some people will say that is too horrifying for little kids.
Some kids will freak about the thought of killing wolves. "But they're just big doggies!"
Kids that age might not understand some of the complex motivations like sinking the ships of a competing merchant cartel. Keeping the prince's drunken brawl a secret to avoid embarrassing the family. Etc...
I think you will pretty much have to make a guess based on the description, then buy it and see if you can live with it or alter it enough to live with it.
You could also post a "I'm thinking about buying The Temple of Shifting Mountains to run with my 6-8 year old kids. Is there anything in there that I need to watch out for? What about the bandit that is killing the villagers, how vividly horrific is that?" and see what kind of response you get.
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Inviting over another couple would be a good solution, and you might make some friends out of it. There are plenty of resources to find people in your area, and you can do it via e-mail if you want first, to sort of feel them out (if you prefer).
The first place is right here on the boards, in the gamer connection forum.
Another place is Nearby Gamers, which is site that actually helps you find people near you by Google Maps.
And also Pen & Paper Games which also has forums based by location for finding people, as well as location registration.
Welcome (back) to the gaming life!
Don't forget MeetUp! I've found great gaming groups there.
