Arcanist [green] – The Arcanist makes a perfectly respectable Diabolist, but if you want to play an arcane caster, you’re probably a bit better off with a witch, wizard, or sorcerer. Like the sorcerer, the arcanist has slower spell progression and a limited number of spells, but like the witch and wizard, he has to split his stats between Int and Cha. While there are many interesting arcanist exploits, none of them are specifically useful in calling, binding and otherwise dealing with conjured outsiders. The arcane reservoir does help you build an interesting blaster, so there’s that. If you want to play an Arcanist, consider the Eldritch Font archetype, as it is mildly helpful both for blasting and for dealing with conjured fiends.
Cleric [orange] – You’re stuck with Planar Ally, and the Diabolist’s boor BAB progression will hurt you in melee. If you can live with that, there are things to like about the cleric: fast spell progression, lots of useful utility spells, and you can leverage other aspects of this PrC. Enter it early, enjoy your imp companion, and blast a lot with Hellfire admixture. You’ll start having fun at higher levels when the (relative) cost of Planar Ally starts to drop.
Oracle [orange] – A Cha-based caster, which is good, but otherwise basically a feebler cleric, with no access to Planar Binding and a lot fewer spells. Unfortunately, most revelations and mysteries don’t add much value for a Diabolist. The notable exception is the Outer Rifts mystery [green]: it gets all the Planar Binding spells, and has two or three moderately useful revelations. It’s demon-themed, but could still make a pretty okay Diabolist.
Feats:
[All these feats are green unless otherwise noted.]
Breadth of Knowledge – A fine feat that’s unfortunately restricted to elves and gnomes, this gives you +2 on *all* Knowledge checks. If you’re playing a wizard who’s a knowledge monkey (as many wizards are), this is pretty attractive. Also, every bit helps when you’re researching those true names.
Conversion Channel [orange] – Consider this if you’re a cleric of Asmodeus who uses channeling; it lets you healbomb fellow worshippers (presumably including all devils) once/day.
Diabolical Negotiator -- You can add your Intelligence or Wisdom modifier (whichever is higher) on Diplomacy checks in place of Cha, and you can shift a creature's attitude more than two steps with Diplomacy. That last is potentially quite powerful, as at high levels you could build a Diplomacy monkey with the power to turn hostile creatures (including called creatures!) friendly or helpful. Might be blue, but unfortunately it imposes a feat tax – you must have Skill Focus [Diplomacy] first.
Esoteric Advantage – Lets you reduce a creature’s DR, SR, or energy resistance by 2 if you first make a Knowledge check. As a practical matter, this will be an extra Spell Penetration feat, except not quite as good as Spell Penetration because you have to check first. On the other hand, your Knowledge (Planes) should be high enough that you autowin checks on most outsiders. If you really want to blow past SR, pile this on top of the two Spell Penetration feats.
Fast Study (wizard discovery) – This lets you restudy Planar Binding and the associated utility spells fast, effectively allowing you to cast it in the middle of a dungeon. This is situational, but could be super handy if you suddenly need the abilities of a particular outsider. Under RAW it would also allow you to restudy and cast this spell many times per day, allowing you to very rapidly raise an army of outsiders. That’s potentially unbalancing, though, so talk to your DM first.
Noble Scion (Scion of Lore) [orange] – The poor cousin of Breadth of Knowledge, this gives you +1 on every knowledge feat you have a rank in. Oh, and +2 on Knowledge [Nobility] (eyeroll). Still, if you can’t get Breadth of Knowledge, might be worth a feat.
Sacred Summons – Normally there’s a two-feat tax on this one (SF: Conjuration and Augment Summons). But since Diabolist clerics get Augment Summons for free, this is actually quite attractive for them.
Superior Summons [orange] – I’m honestly not sure if this is worthwhile or not. On one hand, you don’t have to pay the normal feat tax on this because you’re getting Augment Summons for free. On the other hand, is summoning large numbers of lower level monsters really the way you want to go, especially when you already have large numbers of conjured creatures running around? I guess this is green if you’re comfortable with running lots of creatures at once.
Skill Focus (Knowledge [Planes]) – Is it worth spending one of your precious, precious feats on this? Maybe! It’s not immediately useful, but at higher levels, the +6 this gives you can really be leveraged – you use it to research the true names of powerful outsiders, and then you use that to abuse them mercilessly. I mean, call them to serve.
Vile Leadership – Leadership except you get to be a jerk to your followers.
Traits:
There are just a few traits that might be specifically useful to you. If none of these look interesting, take something that gives you a bonus to Diplomacy, Bluff, or Knowledge (planes), or to Will saves. (Or, heck, just take Reactive. You’re never going to go wrong with +2 Init.)
Asmodean Demon Hunter -- You gain a +3 trait bonus on Knowledge (planes) checks about demons and a +2 trait bonus on Will saves against mind-affecting spells and effects from demons. Take this if you’re going to occasionally walk on the wild side and call demons, or if you’re playing Wrath of the Righteous.
Charlatan (gnome) – Sacrifice a spell or spell slot to gain an instant bonus to one Bluff check equal to the level of the spell lost. Situational, but at higher levels you’ll have spells and slots to burn, and you’ve chosen a profession where sometimes you’ll just really need to make a convincing lie.
Dark Magic Affinity (tiefling) – Whenever you cast a spell with the [evil] descriptor, you act as if you were one level higher for the purpose of determining that spell’s effects. That’s an extra damage die on your Hellfire spells, and an extra day of service from your bindings.
Family Connections (tiefling) – You get +2 on Bluff and Diplomacy against evil outsiders.
Planar Negotiator (aasimar) – Whenever you cast one of the planar ally spells, you receive a 10% discount on the monetary cost required by the summoned outsiders. Avery nice trait indeed for a diabolist cleric.
Planar Savant -- Use Cha instead of Int when making Knowledge (planes) checks. Good for sorcerors!
Wicked Leader – Benefit(s): You gain a +1 trait bonus on Charisma checks against evil creatures. If you select the Leadership feat or the Vile Leadership feat, you can recruit a cohort who is up to 1 level lower than you (instead of the normal 2 or more levels) as long as your cohort is evil.
True Names:
You want True Names. You want as many of them as you can possibly get your sweaty little hands on. Why? Because when you know an outsider’s true name, it gets -5 on its Will save against your spell, and then another -5 on checks to escape your circle. And you can call that same outsider, over and over again. The outsider probably won’t like this much, but what do you care? You have its true name. And you can very plausibly threaten to publicize it, causing the outsider’s life to become unbearable as it’s endlessly called to service.
All devils have true names, as do most other outsiders. (Proteans, aeons and qlippoth do not. You don’t want to summon any of those anyway.) There are three ways to discover them. First, you can simply be a wizard and take the True Name arcane discovery. That’s only available at the 11th wizard level, though, so it’s not a great choice for diabolists.
Second, you can beat, bribe, or otherwise crowbar it out of another devil. According to RAW, “Lesser devils [12 or fewer HD] typically know 1d4+1 true names and sigils, while greater devils usually know 2d8+2. There are certain exceptions such as lemures that never know any true names, osyluths that usually know as many names and sigils as true devils, and gelugons and certain other highly manipulative greater devils who might know double the typical number.” To get a true name out of a conjured devil, you need to make a second opposed Cha check – that’s in addition to the one you made to summon it – and if that works, you get the name but nothing else; the devil promptly pops back home to Hell. The name will always be the name of a weaker devil than the one you called. Don’t be surprised if names obtained this way come with serious strings attached; after all, you’re basically asking the DM to get creative here. When it turns out that the osyluth gave you the name of a particularly intelligent barbazu who is chief torturer to Lord Humongus, a powerful pit fiend? And that Lord H. will quickly miss his favored servant, and come looking for him in person? You can’t say you weren’t warned.
Third, you can research it. You discover a true name by spending at least a month in a well-equipped library (or three months for a devil of 13 or more HD) and then making a Knowledge [Planes] check. The DC is 25 if you’re looking for a random lesser devil; otherwise, if you’re looking for a specific name, it’s 20+the creature’s HD. That can get up pretty high, but with max ranks, good Int, aid from another, Heresy, and the right feats and items, it’s actually not at all hard to get +35 or so by the low teen levels.
Note that the DM rolls the check secretly, and if you fail by 5 or more, you get the name wrong, with potentially horrific consequences. The RAW doesn’t spell out those consequences, but it’s not hard to think of some nasty ones. After all, it’s canon that fiends salt bad names out there as bait for uppity mortal spellcasters. A bad name might call up something much nastier than you intended, or cause your protective circle to malfunction, or act as a signal flare to powerful and hostile forces, or open you to magic-jar style possession. Do you really want to give your DM a chance to exercise his deranged imagination? Just don’t try to research anything whose DC is greater than your modifier +5.
Spells:
2nd level
Shared Sacrifice – Conjured outsiders may not be willing to have this spell cast on them, and unwilling targets get SR and a Will save. However, it works just fine on summoned creatures or – heh heh heh – your imp companion. The rounds/level duration is a nuisance, but it’s a fine buff for casting before big combats if you have time.
3rd level
Blood Transcription – This creepy but thematic spell allows you to learn new spells by drinking the blood of dead spellcasters. And yes, this does work for learning SLAs from a dead outsider.
Vision of Hell – Pleasantly thematic, this is really a simple area-based debuff: Will save or be shaken. The good things about it are long range, wide area (50’ radius) and minutes/level duration. The bad thing is, lawful evil creatures are unaffeted. Oh, and it also affects your allies. Not an issue if they’re lawful evil, mind. Not a bad spell, but more about cool factor than mechanical advantage.
4th level
Sacrifice – This spell is very thematic, but only occasionally useful. Spending 100 gp/HD to get a miserable +1 on your DC or Cha check isn’t usually that good a deal. Sacrificing a captive enemy for +2 is a bit more attractive. (Certainly it’s a lot easier than some of the crazier creature-specific offerings, like the marilith and her military hand sashimi.) Of course, having to subdue and capture the wretched paladin instead of just killing him is kind of a pain. But on the plus side, anyone you kill with this spell can’t be brought back except by a wish or miracle.
5th level
Spellcasting Contract, Lesser – Unfortunately, this is a cleric/oracle-only spell. Absolutely take it if you’re a diabolist cleric. “You gain a profane bonus to your Armor Class, saving throws, and checks equal to the highest- level spell you have imbued.” That includes Cha checks to bargain down the cost of Planar Allies. For a combat cleric, trading spell slots for AC and saves makes a lot of sense anyway. Even if you're not a combat cleric, giving spells to your conjured creatures (or your imp) can have some really excellent effects on economy of action. Finally, note that it’s totally appropriate for you to trade spells in return for actions or favors, especially ones that may lead to someone getting damned.
7th level
Spellcasting Contract – See above.
8th level
Trap the Soul – This is expensive (1,000 gp per hit die) and not really worth doing unless you know the creature’s name. But if you do know its name, you can boss it around anyway. It’s pleasant and convenient to have an outsider trapped indefinitely in a gem that you can carry around, but it’s probably not worth the cost and risk unless someone is willing to pay you to do it. I'd say this spell, like Binding, is only really useful if the DM allows you to use it for attitude adjustment purposes (i.e., getting modifiers on rolls against your conjured creatures.)
9th level
Spellcasting Contract, Greater – See above. Note that this can give you a profane bonus of to +5 on AC and saves, 24/7 all the time. The only reason this isn’t utterly awesome is that you may have other profane bonuses, and they may not stack.
Magic items:
Circlet of Persuasion (4,500) gp – A +3 competence bonus on Charisma checks? Sweet. You definitely want this. It even stacks with Eagles Splendor (enhancement bonus). Just remember that it takes up your headband slot.
Hamatulatsu Robe (14,000 gp) – You might want this for the coolness factor and the +1 untyped AC bonus. The d8 of unarmed damage and the weird monk feat are fun if you’re the sort who enjoys beating minions to a pulp with your bare hands.
The Inward-Facing Circle (2255 gp) – This astonishing book is a spell book that contains a spell book containing greater planar binding, planar binding, lesser planar binding, agonize, dimensional anchor, sacrifice, magic circle against evil, and communal protection from evil. But that’s just the beginning! It also gives you a +2 circumstance bonus on Knowledge (planes] checks concerning devils; a focus to use plane shift to travel to a specific layer of hell; shows you how to create a permanent circle that isn't broken by footsteps or a gust of wind; and gives you – wait for it – a whopping +5 bonus on charisma checks against called devils. If you DM allows it, you absolutely must have this book.
Odds and ends:
The Diabolist is technically legal for PFS play, but you can’t enter the class until 9th level for wizards, and your Hellfire powers are nerfed by a distinct shortage of good-aligned opponents. (On the other hand, being damned doesn’t matter so much.) Dipping one level for the imp is probably the best option for PFS.
At higher levels, the Infernal Binder subschool of conjuration specialists has the obnoxious power of being able to hijack your control over called creatures. Would your DM throw one of these guys at you? Surely not.
Additionally, if you could justify worshipping Desna whilst being a diabolist, taking her Deific Obedience feat as an Evangelist would give you your charisma bonus onto both concentration checks and rolls to beat SR - her 2nd boon of Starlit Caster. Plus a bit of extra damage on some spells. Guess who all future sorcerors and bards and Oracles of mine will be worshipping. ..
This won't work. Desna is Chaotic Good, with worshipper's acceptable alignments being CG, NG, and CN. Diabolist is LE, NE, and LN. None of these overlap.
Skylancer4 wrote:
One more thing to look into, if you are going CHA caster, Deific Obedience for Calistria. Eventually gets your CHA mod to AC as well as your DEX mod.
Likewise, this won't work. Calistria is Chaotic Neutral, with worshipper's acceptable alignments being CN, CG, NN, and CE. Again, none of these overlap with Diabolist acceptable alignments.
Only thing you missed was the Divine Protection feat for CHA based characters:
Divine Protection:
Your deity protects you against deadly attacks. Prerequisites: Cha 13, Knowledge (religion) 5 ranks, ability to cast 2nd-level divine spells; blessings†, domains, or mystery class feature. Benefit: You gain a bonus equal to your Charisma modifier on all saving throws. If your Charisma modifier is already applied as a bonus on all saving throw (such as from the divine grace class feature), you instead gain a +1 bonus on all saving throws.
@the rest... Well that is what I get for posting after being up all night after work. Bleh.
Using Diabolist as a dip class, you could still get some mileage out of Calistria with alignment change and going into one of the other PrCs that feature Obediences. But at that point you are leaving the scope of a guide on this class.
Apparently you don't lose access to PrC class abilities if you lose the prereq alignment after you've gained it. I know it was the case in 3.5 due to the Ask the Sage (or whatever it was that officially made that the case back then), no rules in PFRPG enforce that.
@Skylancer, Divine Protection is a great feat, but it's not specifically wonderful for a Diabolist. If I were to list every really good feat, the Guide would become rather inconveniently long.
@the rest... Well that is what I get for posting after being up all night after work. Bleh.
Using Diabolist as a dip class, you could still get some mileage out of Calistria with alignment change and going into one of the other PrCs that feature Obediences. But at that point you are leaving the scope of a guide on this class.
Apparently you don't lose access to PrC class abilities if you lose the prereq alignment after you've gained it. I know it was the case in 3.5 due to the Ask the Sage (or whatever it was that officially made that the case back then), no rules in PFRPG enforce that.
You might be right on this one -- the other 2 "Damned" classes (Demoniac and Souldrinker/Souleater) have "Ex-" sections that explicitly say that you lose all class abilities except Damned if you change alignment, but Diabolist doesn't have this -- weird.
I believe you both are correct. So, under RAW, the Diabolist could switch alignments and still keep the class benefits. In fact, I think that under RAW he could continue to advance as a Diabolist! (Does anyone know otherwise?)
Now, this would lead to some complications. For one, if you become good-aligned, conjuring evil outsiders becomes morally problematic. (Conjuring evil creatures adds the "evil" descriptor to the conjuration spell.) For another, you're still Damned to Hell when you die; that doesn't change. And for a third, I think we can reasonably assume that Hell has some pretty strict in-game checks against apostates. If you've sworn allegiance in blood and fire to mighty Asmodeus by and through his servant, the pit fiend Lord Humongus, Baron of the Seventh Circle and Second Deputy Minister for Internal Infernal Affairs? And then you change your mind and start dancing with butterflies by starlight? You gotta figure Lord H. is going to notice and take firm and decisive action. I wouldn't start any long books.
That said, a White Diabolist could be a cool NPC character concept.
As someone who already plays one Diabolist in PFS (built as a Flame Mystery Oracle - not optimal, I know, but I like how she's turned out) and has dabbled with a couple of others conceptually, this was a fascinating guide to read. I was already in character creation mode when I stumbled across this, but now I've got yet another idea germinating in my head.
I do have one question, though. The idea of building a Diabolist as a Dimensional Occultist Witch has been something I've considered for a while now (envisioned as sort of a diabolic variant on Areelu Vorlesh from Wrath of the Righteous), but by my understanding Witches do not get access to the Protection from Evil (et al) or Magic Circle spells, at least by default.
Am I correct in this? If so, how badly would that hamper the character's effectiveness and do you have any ideas for mitigating those issues?
The idea of building a Diabolist as a Dimensional Occultist Witch has been something I've considered for a while now (envisioned as sort of a diabolic variant on Areelu Vorlesh from Wrath of the Righteous), but by my understanding Witches do not get access to the Protection from Evil (et al) or Magic Circle spells, at least by default.
Am I correct in this? If so, how badly would that hamper the character's effectiveness and do you have any ideas for mitigating those issues?
You are correct and it is a problem. It's why I color the witch green instead of blue. If you're going to play a witch, the Dimensional Occultist is flavorful and cool, and uses the Dimensions patron, so you don't have to worry about getting Planar Binding.
As for the utility spells, there are several workarounds. The obvious ones include wands, scrolls, other party members, and taking leadership and getting a cohort. (Leadership is always nice, but it's extra attractive for any Diabolist other than a wizard, just because there are so darn many spells that are useful for a Diabolist.)
What do you think of a Cleric using either the Law or Evil Domain to snag the Subdomain Devil. That would get you Planar Binding as a 6th level spell the same as Wizards, thus bypassing one of the significant issues of a Divine caster even though it limits you to only Devils (and of note that would also open up the Fiendish Vessel archetype which gets you rather nice thematic abilities if you're a Tiefling).
I'm looking at making one for a hopefully upcoming campaign and whilst I really like the PrC and a Wizard seems the best choice I think a Cleric opens up some super fun options (especially things such as Conversion Channel, who doesn't love making good guys choose between death or converting to Asmodeus!) and could also with good roleplay help up those miscellaneous bonuses the GM grants on Planar Binding, "If Asmodeus didn't WANT you to serve me faithfully he wouldn't allow me to cast this spell and call you... would he. Or do you doubt our lords omniscience? Hmmmm?" /grin.
@Skylancer, Divine Protection is a great feat, but it's not specifically wonderful for a Diabolist. If I were to list every really good feat, the Guide would become rather inconveniently long.
Doug M.
I'm going to disagree just a little. People in organized play actually take feats to get bonuses to a single save to shore up defenses. A single feat that gives your CHA mod to ALL saves, is REALLY good even if you are sitting at +2 mod. For any of the classes that would make "good" Diabolists and focus on CHA... well it just became purple or whatever your top rating is.
Put another way, it requires 2 levels in a class with no synergy to your focus build to get what you what you get with a single feat.
If we were talking casters who have no use for CHA at all yeah, it is nice. But we are talking about characters who want CHA for opposed checks, so we're talking about +1 or +2 mods "regularly." That means this feat is worth at least 2 feats mechanically (extra traits to get a +1 to each save and random trait) or 3 (+2 Will/Fort/Ref) as a starting off point. As soon as you buff for opposed rolls, ALL your saves just jumped 2 more as well in case things go badly.
I believe you both are correct. So, under RAW, the Diabolist could switch alignments and still keep the class benefits. In fact, I think that under RAW he could continue to advance as a Diabolist! (Does anyone know otherwise?)
Now, this would lead to some complications. For one, if you become good-aligned, conjuring evil outsiders becomes morally problematic. (Conjuring evil creatures adds the "evil" descriptor to the conjuration spell.) For another, you're still Damned to Hell when you die; that doesn't change. And for a third, I think we can reasonably assume that Hell has some pretty strict in-game checks against apostates. If you've sworn allegiance in blood and fire to mighty Asmodeus by and through his servant, the pit fiend Lord Humongus, Baron of the Seventh Circle and Second Deputy Minister for Internal Infernal Affairs? And then you change your mind and start dancing with butterflies by starlight? You gotta figure Lord H. is going to notice and take firm and decisive action. I wouldn't start any long books.
That said, a White Diabolist could be a cool NPC character concept.
Doug M.
Playability wise, hug the Neutral axis. Devils love to twist things, they can't really be mad at you for playing sides against each other :3
Desna was mentioned earlier, but Calistria is where you can get away with it much more realistically, CN.
You are correct and it is a problem. It's why I color the witch green instead of blue. If you're going to play a witch, the Dimensional Occultist is flavorful and cool, and uses the Dimensions patron, so you don't have to worry about getting Planar Binding.
As for the utility spells, there are several workarounds. The obvious ones include wands, scrolls, other party members, and taking leadership and getting a cohort. (Leadership is always nice, but it's extra attractive for any Diabolist other than a wizard, just because there are so darn many spells that are useful for a Diabolist.)
Doug M.
Hmm... That's pretty much in line with my thinking.
Unfortunately, the character I'm currently considering is going to be used for PFS (my main source of play at the moment), so most of those workarounds are iffy, at best. Much as I like the flavor, seems like building as a Wizard is the better option for now. I'll save the Witch build for a home game, I think.
What do you think of a Cleric using either the Law or Evil Domain to snag the Subdomain Devil. That would get you Planar Binding as a 6th level spell the same as Wizards, thus bypassing one of the significant issues of a Divine caster even though it limits you to only Devils (and of note that would also open up the Fiendish Vessel archetype which gets you rather nice thematic abilities if you're a Tiefling).
I'm neutral about Fiendish Vessel -- it's thematically quite nice, but you already get an imp from being a Diabolist, and the ability to evilbomb good foes is very situational. (You can use the imp familiar to do it, but unlike your imp companion, those things cost money to replace.) Also, you have to be a tiefling, and while there are a couple of tiefling subraces that are good for a diabolist (grimspawn and beastbrood), they're IMO not quite as good a human, elf, gnome (for a sorceror) or some of the aasimar subraces. That said, this is a thematic choice that is perfectly playable. If you go this route, consider the Dark Magic Affinity and Family Connections tiefling traits -- both are great for a Diabolist -- and once you have 9,000 gp to spare, invest in a Darksire Amulet.
Taking the devil subdomain is probably the best thing to do for a cleric, yes. Planar Binding is great at 11th and 12th levels, okay at 13th and 14th levels. Then it starts to fade, but at that point you'll have Greater Planar Ally and the cost/benefit equation will be starting to tip in your direction.
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I'm looking at making one for a hopefully upcoming campaign and whilst I really like the PrC and a Wizard seems the best choice I think a Cleric opens up some super fun options (especially things such as Conversion Channel, who doesn't love making good guys choose between death or converting to Asmodeus!)
I agree -- that's a hugely fun feat. Mechanically it's limited by the fact that your Diabolist levels don't give you channeling dice, but who cares? Being able to healbomb once/day is also pretty nice.
I'm going to disagree just a little. People in organized play actually take feats to get bonuses to a single save to shore up defenses. A single feat that gives your CHA mod to ALL saves, is REALLY good even if you are sitting at +2 mod. For any of the classes that would make "good" Diabolists and focus on CHA... well it just became purple or whatever your top rating is.
Okay, you've convinced me. I'm adding it to the Guide, with the following note: "Add your Cha bonus to all your saves, like a paladin. Yes, really. Blue if you’re a Cha-based caster, orange otherwise. (But note that even wizards should have a respectable Cha if playing a Diabolist.)"
@Skylancer, Divine Protection is a great feat, but it's not specifically wonderful for a Diabolist. If I were to list every really good feat, the Guide would become rather inconveniently long.
Doug M.
I'm going to disagree just a little. People in organized play actually take feats to get bonuses to a single save to shore up defenses. A single feat that gives your CHA mod to ALL saves, is REALLY good even if you are sitting at +2 mod. For any of the classes that would make "good" Diabolists and focus on CHA... well it just became purple or whatever your top rating is.
Put another way, it requires 2 levels in a class with no synergy to your focus build to get what you what you get with a single feat.
If we were talking casters who have no use for CHA at all yeah, it is nice. But we are talking about characters who want CHA for opposed checks, so we're talking about +1 or +2 mods "regularly." That means this feat is worth at least 2 feats mechanically (extra traits to get a +1 to each save and random trait) or 3 (+2 Will/Fort/Ref) as a starting off point. As soon as you buff for opposed rolls, ALL your saves just jumped 2 more as well in case things go badly.
If only my Oracle wasn't PFS... She's rocking a 26 CHA at the moment and, if it were allowed, I'd be all over that in a heartbeat.
Here's a concept that was just a bit too insane to make it into the Guide: The Two-Imp Debuff. "You walk into a room full of monsters, and your two imps start jumping up and down on your shoulders, screeching like insane apes, and all the monsters become demoralized."
Okay, friends: this has been incredibly helpful, and has greatly improved the Guide. Last call now for comments and suggestions -- I'd like to get the 2.0 improved version up by this weekend.
Question, do you think taking the Human FCB from levels 1-5 for Clerics (Add +1 on caster level checks made to overcome the spell resistance of outsiders) would essentially allow you to skip Spell Pen. & the Greater version? I'm not sure if it's a big enough deal to still need them as well, if not it frees up two feats which is a pretty nice bonus for such a feat starved build I feel and adds at least something to a Divine Diabolist.
Something interesting that I think works... 3 levels of Darkfire Adept grants you +2 HD to the limit on Planar Ally and Binding, this means at 15th level you could call a 20HD creature, for example... a Pit Fiend :D (If you were feeling super gung ho and reckoned your chances at any rate ;))
Question, do you think taking the Human FCB from levels 1-5 for Clerics (Add +1 on caster level checks made to overcome the spell resistance of outsiders) would essentially allow you to skip Spell Pen. & the Greater version? I'm not sure if it's a big enough deal to still need them as well, if not it frees up two feats which is a pretty nice bonus for such a feat starved build I feel and adds at least something to a Divine Diabolist.
It is totally worth it. As you say, it's like getting two feats and a bit. If you take the FCB *and* Spell Penetration, you're getting at least +7. SR is usually around CR +10-12. So for a level-appropriate encounter you'll typically succeed on a 4 or higher, and you'll have a better than even chance of getting through the SR even of EPL+4 boss encounters.
You can't have too much spell penetration. You deal with evil outsiders constantly, and there's an excellent chance you'll be dealing with good ones too. Being able to just zap these guys directly is a big, big deal.
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Something interesting that I think works... 3 levels of Darkfire Adept grants you +2 HD to the limit on Planar Ally and Binding, this means at 15th level you could call a 20HD creature, for example... a Pit Fiend :D (If you were feeling super gung ho and reckoned your chances at any rate ;))
Sure. I think Darkfire Adept is about the only PrC that might synergize with Diabolist. You do lose a level of casting, which hurts.
Okay, the Revised / 2.0 version is now live. You can find it right here. It's a .pdf now, so that should fix the problems that some people encountered with text boxes.
This incorporates most of what's been discussed on this thread. I won't do any more revisions for some time to come (if ever); the document is already getting rather long. But I will be very interested to hear about people's experiences with the PrC in actual play!
1) The Google Docs version of this -- current available right here-- is going to expire soon. Is there anyone who would be willing to host it anew on google docs, Dropbox or something similar?
2) It's about time to revise the Guide once again, especially with two (!) new Cheliax APs coming out. Unusually for a PrC from over five years ago, the Diabolist remains fresh and relevant -- it's still flavorful, still flexible, and still fun. And, yes okay, it's still brutally abusable in the hands of a determined power gamer if that's your thing.
So, if you haven't seen the Guide before, click on through -- your comments and suggestions will be very welcome.
1) The Google Docs version of this -- current available right here-- is going to expire soon. Is there anyone who would be willing to host it anew on google docs, Dropbox or something similar?
2) It's about time to revise the Guide once again, especially with two (!) new Cheliax APs coming out. Unusually for a PrC from over five years ago, the Diabolist remains fresh and relevant -- it's still flavorful, still flexible, and still fun. And, yes okay, it's still brutally abusable in the hands of a determined power gamer if that's your thing.
So, if you haven't seen the Guide before, click on through -- your comments and suggestions will be very welcome.
cheers,
Doug M.
If I had the ability to I absolutely would. That being said, there was a post not too long ago about someone willing to host things like house rules/content and what not. I will look for it it when I get the chance.
You know I just went poking through the guide. There is nothing regarding clerics with the appropriate domains/subdomains or the Oracle. Was this an intentional omission or just copy/paste error?
I know that they were there in the previous version.
Huh, there do seem to be some minor omissions from the Guide -- a version control problem. Thanks for noticing!
Doug M.
If you still have it in there, don't bother with The feat Divine Protection anymore. Post change it is subpar at best for this build. Immediate action to add your CHA mod to a save once per day...
If you still have it in there, don't bother with The feat Divine Protection anymore. Post change it is subpar at best for this build. Immediate action to add your CHA mod to a save once per day...
Oh! Well, it was definitely overpowered before (why would you ever build an Oracle and not take this feat) -- but when did it get nerfed?
Looks like 7-22-2015, nothing on the websites FAQ/errata page. Just the errata PDF for the book.
But yeah I agree, that is why I lobbied so hard to get it included. And not just oracles, clerics and any CHA based class for that matter (archetypes and the VMC stuff).
