Yeah, I know it's not the world's best idea, but please don't suggest trying something else. It (approximately) fits in with the rest of the group's level of optimization. :)
So I'm trying to make a purely dex-based character that can still do some damage while having a relatively defensive slant. This is replacing a character that died.
NOTE: CRB, APG, UC and UM are allowed. Stats were rolled, so they can be re-arranged but not altered.
Below is what I have so far:
6th level fighter (Weapon Master)
13 STR (just for PA)
23 DEX (+2 elf, +2 item, +1 at level 4)
13 CON
20 INT (+2 elf, +2 item)
10 WIS
14 CHA
Feats: Weapon Finesse, Dodge, Dervish Dance, Power Attack, Mobility, Improved Unarmed Strike, Crane Style.
NEXT LEVEL: Duelist, for at least a few levels. Dervish Dance makes that work with a scimitar, Crane Wing will help avoid more hits.
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After I get at least the second Crane-style feat (and possibly the third, since I get Combat Reflexes free with Duelist), I'm a bit unsure on feats.
I'd like to hear feedback/advice on how to improve the build or recommended feats.
Thanks!
I suggest take the improved trip line. Fury's Fall lets you add Dex to CMB Trip rolls. Combine this with Agile maneuvers, and you have a +18 to trip.
Though may I ask what build you're going for? I see you have both Weapon Finesse and Dervish Dance. I would have gone for double Short Sword. If you ever think of taking Tengu as a race if that's allowed, You could get both Wakizashis or Saw Tooth Sabers. This allows you to take Weapon Focus and Weapon Spec.
Also with the Archetype, Mobile Fighter might suit you more.
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Agile Manuevers isn't actually necessary if he has improved unarmed strike; that makes his regular attack bonuses all apply to his standard trip (as hands are finessable). Only a few attack structures like Bullrush need agile Manuevers.
I'd go alchemist (Vivisectoor). Adds sneak attack damage, and @ 4 you can drink potions of greater magic fang and throw them back up (if your GM allows them or if this is PFS, a potion @ 20th level + extend from discovery will make it last longer than all day as a +5 weapon). Also, mutagen is an unnamed +4 dex bonus +2 natural armor for -2 Wis 10 mins/lvl.
It's very debatable whether Devish Dance affects your hand, however it is written. Most I have seen rule it does not, though no official ruling has come down.
Agile Manuevers isn't actually necessary if he has improved unarmed strike; that makes his regular attack bonuses all apply to his standard trip (as hands are finessable). Only a few attack structures like Bullrush need agile Manuevers.
Because he's... wait. Why do you have Style Feats and Dervish Dance? Now I'm very confused.
Also for multiclassing, That Vivisectionist thing is an Idea, though if you are going to have a free arm, I suggest going for a vanilla alchemist. Another I suggest is urban barbarian. Dex rage is beautiful.
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In fact, if this character is build from scratch, go:
Monk 2 / Alchemist 4
Str: 10
Int: 20
Wis: 14
Dex: 21
Con: 13
Chr: 13
Discoveries: Extend potion, claws
magic item: Amulet of natural weapons (agility) - 5000 GP
Potion of greater magic weapon (20th level) - 3000 GP
Potion of Barkskin (15th level) - 1500 GP
He drinks and throws up the potion of greater magic weapon every 40 hours. Also drinks the potion of barkskin and an extract of Mage armor if he goes into a dungeon.
AC (for 4 hours / day): 24
Attacks: 2 flurry attacks... +5 dex +5 BAB +5 weapon = +15 / +15 for d6+10 (+2d6 if sneak attack possible)
Or
+16 for d6+10 (+2d6 possible)
And of course all of that goes up under the influence of mutagens etc. If you want you can do the trip line or whatever; only fear above that is 100% necessary is weapon finesse.
Yeah, I know it's not the world's best idea, but please don't suggest trying something else.
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I took that to mean he wanted a front-line dex fighter that could go into dervish or such; more than an inability to switch classes; that is still a front-line Dex based fighter. Going monk instead just enables Wisdom to add to dex as well, and gives a form of TWF without needing the feat (in essence, you get more feats than fighter).
Also vastly increases damage input, while not moving stats (save getting Wis to 14 for the AC).
If you're intent on the Crane Style feats, how would you feel about multiclassing to Monk 1 or 2 levels? Your Duelist entry would be slowed by a level, but you get Crane Riposte really early.
1) Fighter 1 = Weapon Finesse (Bonus), Dodge
2) Fighter 2 = Dervish Dance (Bonus, I assume you want this feat ASAP)
3) Monk 1 (Master of Many Styles)
= Fuse Style, Improved Unarmed Strike (Bonus), Crane Wing (Bonus, thanks to the archetype, you qualify for it as long as you got Crane Style), Crane Style
4) Monk 2 (Master of Many Styles)
= Crane Riposte (Bonus). If you don't care about Evasion, get the Sacred Mountain archetype and get Toughness bonus feat and +1 natural armor.
5) Fighter 3 = Power Attack
6) Fighter 4 = Mobility (Bonus)
7) Fighter 5 = Kirin Style
8) Duelist 1 = Precise Strike
9) Duelist 2 = Kirin Strike (Swift action to do Double Int to damage. You will need to get Knowledge arcana and some other knowledge skills though. But your Int makes it worthwhile. Plus with Fuse Style, you can be doing Kirin and Crane at same time).
Make sure you got at least 3 ranks Acrobatics. You should always be fighting defensively whenever you get a chance. +4 dodge bonus to AC and only -1 to hit and Crane feats are activated.
I think at least 7 levels in Fighter is pretty worthwhile as Armor training at that level is pretty sweet. Improved Max Dex and full speed in heavy armor.
Because he's... wait. Why do you have Style Feats and Dervish Dance? Now I'm very confused.
Dervish Dance is for the Dexterity to damage with a Scimitar and allows me to use that same weapon for the Duelist Prestige Class. With a +1 Scimitar, at level 6, this character is doing 1d6 + 8 before power attack. It's not game-breaking, but it's respectable.
The style feat lowers the attack penalty for fighting defensively and allows me to pick up the next one in the chain -- which negates one melee hit per round.
Combined with the Parry ability from Duelist, this character is potentially negating two melee attacks per round while getting +7 AC for only a -1 attack penalty (+2 Fighting Defensively, +1 for ranks of Acrobatics, +1 Crane Style, +3 for Elaborate Defense from Duelist 9)
Also for multiclassing, That Vivisectionist thing is an Idea, though if you are going to have a free arm, I suggest going for a vanilla alchemist. Another I suggest is urban barbarian. Dex rage is beautiful.
I will definitely take a look at Vivisectionist and the Urban Barbarian. Dex rage would add directly to both AC and damage, which is nice.
Styles can be used with weapons?
Styles can be used with weapons?
As long as the styles doesn't specifically say you need to be unarmed, weapons are fine.
Hmmmm, this has made me want to make my own build for a dex fighter. ^,.,^
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Yeah, I know it's not the world's best idea, but please don't suggest trying something else.
DEX-based fighters are great -- you just have to build them right, because they're less forgetting of dumb design that plate-armor lunkhead builds.
Quickly running through some of what I'm seeing here:
* A scimitar is not a light weapon, so you cannot Piranha Strike with it.
* Rogue/ninja/visicectionist is a waste of time as a "dip" if the only reason you're taking it is for sneak-attack. SA is a some time bonus; whereas the BAB-1 is a full-time penalty.
* Duelist blows. No, wait; my mistake: it sucks. Oh, fine; let's compromise: Duelist alternatively sucks and blows.
* Combat Reflexes is useless with a 5' reach weapon (unless you're going to be using the Panther Style feat-chain, or using it as a prerequisite for Stand Still...both of which are inadvisable in a low-hitpoint build which would want to avoid being in a BBEM's full-attack zone).
* Dervish Dance can be obtained for free as a class feature (i.e., without needing Weapon Finesse) with the Bard[DawnflowerDervish|InnerSeaMagic] archetype.
* IUS and Crane Style can be obtained for free with Monk[Master of Many Styles] or Fighter[Unarmed], and possibly other archetypes.
* IUS doesn't do you much good as a Dervish Dancer unless you have TWF or Flurry, etc,
* That massive INT score is being 100% wasted in the OP build.
= = = = =
....what are the other characters in the party?
....what are your traits?
....will the GM allow any other Paizo sourcebooks? (I'm assuming he will, since Dervish Dance is from Inner Sea World Guide, which you didn't have listed in the OP.)
= = = = =
The Tasmanian Devil Dervish (using rolls of 18,16,14,13,13,10):
Halfling
STR-08 (10-2)
DEX+20 (18+2)
CON:13
INT:11
WIS:16
CHA+16 (14+2)
Traits: Berserker of the Society, Maestro of the Society
00 saves 00 02 06 04 (including halfling racial bonus & Controlled Rage)
01 barb1 01 04 08 04 [Urban], Extra Rage
02 bard1 01 04 10 06 [Dawnflower Dervish|Inner Sea Magic][Dervish Dance][Battle Dance +2]
03 clerc1 01 06 10 08 [Crusader][Sahrenrea|Glory(Heroism)][WF:Scimitar], Dodge
04 mnk1 02 09 12 10 [Martial Artist][Combat Reflexes], WIS>AC, CON>14
05 fight1 03 11 12 10 [Weapon Master|Scimitar], Crusader's Flurry
06 mnk2 04 12 13 11 [Mobility]
07 fight2 05 13 13 11 Panther Style, Panther Claw
08 fight3 06 13 14 12 [Weapon Training +1:Scimitar], INT>12 (max Perf:Dance)
09 bard2 07 14 15 13 [Versatile Performance(Dance|Acrobatics,Fly)], Panther Parry
10 bard3 08 15 15 13 [Inspire Competence +2]
11 bard4 09 15 16 14 [Battle Dance +4], Critical Focus
12 barb2 10 16 16 14 [Reckless Abandon+1]
Equipment at 12th: +1/Keen/Furious scimitars (adamantine, mithral and cold-iron), Monk's Robes, Bracers of Armor, various wands, various Ioun stones, Boots of Flying, Gloves of Dueling, Belt of Physical Perfection, Headband of Mental Perfection
Surprise round: cast Expeditious Retreat, DEX-rage.
1st combat round: Battle Dance, move through enemy threat, take Panther shots.
Remaining combat rounds: Tasmanian Devil Flurry Mode.
Features:
* boss casters cry to see those saving-throws
* divine, arcane item use, and UMD for anything else
* great AC as a martial-artist DEX-rager
* free attacks with Spring Attack/Panther Style technique
* Flurry with 15-20 threat weapon while getting absurd numeric bonuses to damage from Furious, Battle Dance, Weapon Training and Gloves of Dueling
-- When you pull his string and send him off, it'll leave the players of STR-based tank fighters and barbarians with their jaws on the floor.
Welcome to 3.5! Archetypes are the new prestige!
@Mike Schneider: How are you flurrying with scimitars exactly? They aren't monk weapons. Unless you meant raging.
@Atarlost: Dervish DancER is in UC. It's a Bard archetype that has nothing to do with that feat.
@OP: Mike Schneider seems to have the right idea, but I'd keep it simple myself. One level of Unarmed Fighter to qualify for the Crane Feats, then go Urban Barbarian from there. I wouldn't sweat it too much that IUS would be useless since you're getting it for free anyway. If you really want Duelist, maybe throw in a few levels later on. Elaborate Defense seems to synergize with the Crane feats, but I honestly don't know if it's worth the seven levels of Duelist.
01 barb1, 02 bard1, 03 clerc1, 04mnk1
Barbarians can't be lawful, and Monks must be lawful, right?
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01 barb1, 02 bard1, 03 clerc1, 04mnk1Barbarians can't be lawful, and Monks must be lawful, right?
Well it's not that simple... if a barbarian goes lawful he will lose his rage ability and cannot gain any more levels in the barbarian class.
If a monk goes non-lawful he will keep all his abilities, but can't gain more levels as a monk.But since Mike has chosen the martial artist archetype, there should not be any problems with alignment restrictions, because the martial artist don't have any alignment restrictions.
Agile Manuevers isn't actually necessary if he has improved unarmed strike; that makes his regular attack bonuses all apply to his standard trip (as hands are finessable). Only a few attack structures like Bullrush need agile Manuevers.
Can i get a page number or something my DM and I are in the middle of this arguement right now.
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Barbarians can't be lawful, and Monks must be lawful, right?
Martial Artists may be of any alignment.
@Mike Schneider: How are you flurrying with scimitars exactly? They aren't monk weapons. Unless you meant raging.
@Atarlost: Dervish DancER is in UC. It's a Bard archetype that has nothing to do with that feat.
Crusader's Flurry (UC) lets you flurry with your deity's favored weapon.
There are no less than three class archetypes with the same name of "Dawnflower Dervish" (two bard, one fighter); the best one is from Inner Sea Magic. Read it, and your eyeballs will do the boingy-oingy.
I'd keep it simple myself. One level of Unarmed Fighter to qualify for the Crane Feats, then go Urban Barbarian from there.
The reason you take Unarmed Fighter in a DEX build is so you can take Dragon Style without meeting prerequisites. In conjunction with Weapon Finesse and an Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists, you punch the bejeezus out of things with a cestus. Very effective when your fighting styles utilizes making one, and exactly one, unarmed strike per full-attack.
