Goblin Squad Member
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I think we can already presume magic will play an important role in the game, considering it is based on Pathfinder. I was wondering, however, if there will be a place for utilitarian magic, one that does not serve specific combat purposes.
Every MMO with magic has some kind of utility magic: Teleportation is common, as well as spells intended to reduce downtime or avoid certain environmental hazards such as drowning or falling damage. But it is very rare to see a system taking magic beyond those -very necessary- basic commodities.
I'm thinking more about spells that exist to enhance the other aspects of the game, namely crafting and roleplaying, with cosmetic effects or minor useful bonuses to make the life in the game more colourful.
For example, some ideas:
-Unseen Servant: Creates a magical companion that temporarily assists you in the gathering of resources and crafting of items, such as by granting a speed/quality bonus to the task.
-Tavern Finder: Creates a glowing ball of light that travels toward the closest inn, tavern or alehouse.
-Alarm: Creates a sensor in the target location, sending the player a warning message whenever a hostile character or monster passes nearby.
-Structural Transference: Allows the caster to fold a building he owns into a small pocket dimension and carry it to a new location.
-Dimensional Courrier: Lets the caster start a trade with another character anywhere in the world.
-Ghost Sound: The caster creates a sensor that emits a predefined sound (might have a list from where the player selects, such as a bell toll, a dog bark, an ominous "Warning" voice, etc) whenever someone walks within its area of effect.
-Figment: Allows the caster to produce an illusion (from among a predetermined list of options, such as an illusion of himself, a particular creature, a tree, etc) on the spell's target location.
-Expeditous Retreat: Greatly increases the caster's movement speed.
-Feet of Lead: The target of this spell becomes unable to swim, instead walking on the bottom as if he were on the surface (might be simultaneously a nice travelling spell and a potential fatal effect if no water-breathing effect is also included).
I really don't knowhow the game will work, so these are simply speculative proposals, but the main idea is spells that serve to enhance those aspects of the game that magic often overlooks in most MMOs.
I would love to see the Alarm spell tied to an instant message sent to me/my guild if someone triggers it, even if I am not logged into the game. Not that I'd necessarily be able to jump in game at any given point to respond, but at least I'd know someone was knocking down my house. Less of a surprise that way!
In game, however, I agree! These things look like they would be pretty darn useful (though I'd hate to be out fishing, have Feet of Lead cast on me, then get knocked out of my boat).
Ghost Sound combined with Figment could be a pretty fun way of generating atmosphere for player-created quests.
Good thoughts! I see many similar spells becoming utility items within player created houses/businesses.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I like most of them, but I think Dimensional Courier and Structural Transference have a risk of being very broken without limitations. Structural Transference could be direct immunity from buildings being damaged in an attack, and dimensional courier could single handedly eliminate the possibility of import/export business from being applicable and also convert the world into 1 world economy, rather then economies by location. Now these can be reduced, say a 15 minute duration for Structural Transference. and a 1/day limit on Dimensional Courier.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Spell stuff
Out of all of those things that you mention right there, I see several which have applications for more than just utility. Alarm for setting up ambushes, Figment for hiding inside of/behind an illusion. Ghost sound for distractions. Expeditions Retreat for running around in combat. Feet of Lead for killing people who are swimming. The others are more utility for the most part and could probably help to add a bit to non-combat type stuff.
I definitely wouldn't want to see Structural Transference. Moving a house shouldn't be that easy. And I'm not too big on Dimensional Courier. I think it makes it a bit too safe to do trading. Especially for people who are no longer allowed into towns (murderers, etc.)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would love to see the Alarm spell tied to an instant message sent to me/my guild if someone triggers it, even if I am not logged into the game. Not that I'd necessarily be able to jump in game at any given point to respond, but at least I'd know someone was knocking down my house. Less of a surprise that way!
That sounds like a great idea.
I like most of them, but I think Dimensional Courier and Structural Transference have a risk of being very broken without limitations. Structural Transference could be direct immunity from buildings being damaged in an attack, and dimensional courier could single handedly eliminate the possibility of import/export business from being applicable and also convert the world into 1 world economy, rather then economies by location. Now these can be reduced, say a 15 minute duration for Structural Transference. and a 1/day limit on Dimensional Courier.
These are mostly just examples of the types of spells I'm aiming for; I'm pretty sure they would be grossly problematic if implemented as presented. For instance, a spell that allows you to contact someone else in the world to open trade should be indeed very limited in its use to avoid exploitation or breaking down the economy (such as the caster having to create a relay that he then hands over to another player, and is able to contact only that person, and with a long cooldown).
Out of all of those things that you mention right there, I see several which have applications for more than just utility. Alarm for setting up ambushes, Figment for hiding inside of/behind an illusion. Ghost sound for distractions. Expeditions Retreat for running around in combat. Feet of Lead for killing people who are swimming. The others are more utility for the most part and could probably help to add a bit to non-combat type stuff.
Well, I'm not really saying these spells should have no use whatsoever in combat, just that their aim would be in adding flavour and utility to the game rather than a straight damage/healing/buff/debuff/CC spell. In fact, it would be quite entertaining to see alternative uses for such kinds of spells, so long as they don't break down the balance of combat (for instance, Slow Fall -a spell that made you, well, fall slowly for a few seconds- in WoW was a utility spell with lots of creative combat applications, but that didn't really break game balance as its uses were limited to specific circumstances).
In any case, the spells presented were just examples; I'd love to see more utility spells proposed. Who knows what nice things might come out.
Some more ideas:
-Leprechaun's Nose: Gives the caster a chance to earn additional gold every time he kills a monster (it could require a material component costing X gold, so it essentially would be a slot machine spell, balanced to make the player cut even in the long run, but with luck granting him slight coin bonuses -or maluses-).
-Lore of the Land: When cast, this spell gives the caster and all friendly targets around him a short insight on the lore of the location he's currently visiting (such as a short paragraph regarding the history of the town he's at or the dreadful legend of the dungeon he's exploring).
-Upward Current: Shoots the caster into the air several feet, and then slowly deposits him back to the ground.
-A Hat for Every Occasion: The caster instantly appear as if wearing a pointed hat with stars and sparks (or maybe he gets access to a selection of equally magical hats).
-Wizard's Sigil: Allows the caster to see the bumps and twists in the fabric of magic, highlightning other characters capable of casting spells.
-Dimensional Pocket: Creates a small hole in reality allowing the caster to store a few more items than he would normally be able to carry, but usable only once per day (for emergency bag space).
-Featherlight: Temporarily decreases the weight the character is carrying, diminishing the effects of burden.
-Astrological Auscultation: Only usable at night, highlights some of the constellations currently in the sky and gives the caster insight on what they mean.
-Alchemical Reduction: Allows the caster to instantly transform an item into gold (to an amount equal -or slightly lower- to the vendor value of said item).
-Ottolf's Drunken Bliss: Instantly makes the caster drunk.
-Ottolf's Sober Grief: Instantly makes the caster sober.
-Ottolf's Refreshing Breath: The caster displays a vaporous haze when breathing (as if he were in a cold climate).
-Dramatically Statuesque: The caster or a friendly target is locked in the next emote he performs and turns into stone until the spell is cancelled.
Structural Transference could be direct immunity from buildings being damaged in an attack,
What makes you think the building would still be usable while it's "folded up"? The build must be valuable as a building or it wouldn't be under attack. I doubt it has the same value while it's a non-functional inventory item...
and dimensional courier could single handedly eliminate the possibility of import/export business from being applicable and also convert the world into 1 world economy, rather then economies by location. Now these can be reduced, say a 15 minute duration for Structural Transference. and a 1/day limit on Dimensional Courier.
There are all kinds of ways to design limitations or features of these sorts of "spells" in order to encourage their "proper" use or outright restrict them to approved usage. Weight limitations on Dimensional Transference, mana costs (if there is a mana system, for example), expensive spell reagents, range limitations, rarity of the spell scroll (again, assuming that characters need a scroll of the spell to learn it, etc.) and other whatnot. it's much much too early to naysay fun utility spells just because you can imagine an improbable and precarious situation in which you might attempt to exploit the spell's functionality (again, a functionality that you are assuming a great deal about).
There are a substantial number of existing spells that are considered utility that would require implementation before we go exploring hypothetical variants.
Which is not a complaint, by any means, since brainstorming is tons of fun, but I was figuring we might go after the existent before thinking up whole new spells to futz about with. :)
-Upward Current: Shoots the caster into the air several feet, and then slowly deposits him back to the ground.
Jump
-A Hat for Every Occasion: The caster instantly appear as if wearing a pointed hat with stars and sparks (or maybe he gets access to a selection of equally magical hats).
Lesser hat of disguise
-Wizard's Sigil: Allows the caster to see the bumps and twists in the fabric of magic, highlightning other characters capable of casting spells.
Arcane sight/Detect magic
-Featherlight: Temporarily decreases the weight the character is carrying, diminishing the effects of burden.
Ant haul
Alchemical Reduction: Allows the caster to instantly transform an item into gold (to an amount equal -or slightly lower- to the vendor value of said item).
I like that. vendor on the road
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Goblin Squad Member
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What makes you think the building would still be usable while it's "folded up"? The build must be valuable as a building or it wouldn't be under attack. I doubt it has the same value while it's a non-functional inventory item...
Absolutely nothing makes me think the building is usable, while it is folded up, I never implied such. I am implying that when you know in advance your building is going to be attacked (say the enemy is fighting at the gates and have a high chance of breaking through), that you can take your building and leave it as unusable and invincible, and then poof get it back when the danger is gone. Owning a building is supposed to be a liability, you work to build it, and you need to work to defend it.
There are all kinds of ways to design limitations or features of these sorts of "spells" in order to encourage their "proper" use or outright restrict them to approved usage. Weight limitations on Dimensional Transference, mana costs (if there is a mana system, for example), expensive spell reagents, range limitations, rarity of the spell scroll (again, assuming that characters need a scroll of the spell to learn it, etc.) and other whatnot. it's much much too early to naysay fun utility spells just because you can imagine an improbable and precarious situation in which you might attempt to exploit the spell's functionality (again, a functionality that you are assuming a great deal about).
I actually suggested very specific limitations for both of these abilities that could balance them. IE a 15 minute duration for Structural Transference and the 1/day limited weight etc... for dimensional courier. Of course Dimensional Courier still has it's areas that would have to be anticipated before considering (like someone making 15 alts in each city to work around any limits placed) etc...
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Goblin Squad Member
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One of the things you need to consider is that every effect you put into the game will be scrutinized for every possible way in which it could be used. You can't introduce a new mechanic into an MMO without understanding the total scope of its impact (or the best possible approximation thereof). The most popular MMOs (WoW, in particular) understand this so well that they push new content patches to public test servers for weeks or months before they go live, in order to make sure that they know what the impact of these changes will be on the game.
The more versatile you make an ability, the more potential there is for it to do something you didn't intend for it to do. In a game like D&D, where you have a DM to adjudicate unintended consequences and make sure that they don't get out of hand, that's fine. But this game won't have DMs with that sort of reach or power.
So, sure, versatile utility magic sounds really great. But from a design perspective, it's sort of a nightmare to properly implement.
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Some of the best utility magic I have seen to date in an MMO is Everquest. Spells that summon items, including bags, shrink, grow, levitation, a wide range of illusions, etc.
With Pathfinder, there already exists a large number of spells that are not strictly speaking combat related. I would like to see at least a few, such as mage's mansion, unseen servant, alter self, and certain illusions to be included. What I don't want to see is a spell system as limited in scope as the one found in DDO.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think that it is important to handle expectations - there are certain spells which can simply break the system when used in conjunction. I would be very surprised to see all of the magic available in Pathfinder P&P available in PFO, certainly to begin with.
I suspect that flying might be one of those things added later, as it has some inherent technical complications. It can also completely invalidate certain designs (being able to fly straight over an enemy's walls, for example).
In my opinion, I'd want to see it implemented but not in such a way that it becomes inherently overpowered.