Mkay, not doing the math anymore. It's too much! Too much, I tell ya! :P
Anyway, I think that's probably enough data to show that nosig's area is the exception rather than the rule. ;)
I'm not convinced that the proportion of "hard core" to "casual" players is the same on this message board vs. people I meet at store game days, but YMMV of course.
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I'm not convinced that the proportion of "hard core" to "casual" players is the same on this message board vs. people I meet at store game days, but YMMV of course.
Fair point. For my area, I know that just about everyone who plays even semi-regularly gets a wand. Just about every scenario starts with "okay, who here can activate CLW wands?" and every significant fight ends with "now that the bad guys are dead, I pull out my bundle of wands and start sifting through name tags and distribute charges as necessary".
I'd have to agree. The only reason I thought about getting wands (or half my gear for that matter) is because of advice on these forums. The only reason people in my area think to buy wands or other strategic gear is because they see myself and the two other players that regularly read the forums using them.
My next project is to get everyone here to buy potions of fly. After fighting a tough flying critter and being the ONLY one capable of getting off the ground, some changes need be made. >.<
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lol...good point Nickademus42.
I try to counsel new players in areas they need to be prepared. I call them the "Big Four." As soon as it is possible, whether by feat, class ability, purchasing, or whatever, you need to be able to overcome the following:
- Swarms (counter with AoE, particularly Alchemist's Fire)
- Flying enemies (counter with flying or ranged attacks)
- Invisible enemies (counter with divination magic, powder, etc)
- Darkness, especially the Deeper kind (light magic, particularly Continual Flame and Daylight)
Of course, the first one (swarms) becomes less important as your level, but it is probably the first one to address. The other three kind of all come at you at once as early as level three. If you can deal with these challenges, you increase your chances of success and survival exponentially.
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I'd have to agree. The only reason I thought about getting wands (or half my gear for that matter) is because of advice on these forums. The only reason people in my area think to buy wands or other strategic gear is because they see myself and the two other players that regularly read the forums using them.
My next project is to get everyone here to buy potions of fly. After fighting a tough flying critter and being the ONLY one capable of getting off the ground, some changes need be made. >.<
Good point, Nickademus42.
Lots of new players learn the game from more experienced players...so setting a good thoughtful example is great imprinting upon others. If we experienced good players want new good players to play with, we need to teach and train them by setting a good example.
Most of you already know how strongly I believe in teaching new players and what I expect for myself at a PFS table, so most of my yahoos have Wands of CLW.
The only ones that don't are ones that have their own personal healing ability.
For stat purposes: 9 characters that I have played in PFS, 7 of which have wands of CLW all bought with PA.
Darkness, especially the Deeper kind (light magic, particularly Continual Flame and Daylight)[/list]
Uh...none of what you listed works against Deeper Darkness (unless Heightened to level 4).
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Uh...none of what you listed works against Deeper Darkness (unless Heightened to level 4).
In situations like this, it's sometimes better to unleash your smokestick/fog cloud effect and put everyone on the same footing (unless they have blind fight/sense/sight/blah).
Baddies unleash deeper darkness to give themselves the upper hand...my characters are now trained to say 'Screw that!' and give them a taste of limited vision.
Too often players worry about not seeing when instead leveling the battlefield can be better.
Oh how I do love the many tricks of this game...for any encounter there are several solutions to overcome it.
-Pain
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Uh...none of what you listed works against Deeper Darkness (unless Heightened to level 4).
The reference to Continual Flame is as a resolution to regular Darkness either to counter(Wiz/Sorc) or negate(Cleric)
Since Deeper Darkness and Daylight are both level three spells, their effects would be temporarily negated leaving the prevailing light conditions.
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Too often players worry about not seeing when instead leveling the battlefield can be better
That presumes that the enemy still uses sight as its primary form of perception. Countering the darkness effect will be more effective if the creature uses blindsense, blindsight, tremorsense, or some other ESP.
Since Deeper Darkness and Daylight are both level three spells, their effects would be temporarily negated leaving the prevailing light conditions.
You're possibly thinking of using a Daylight spell to dispel/counter a Deeper Darkness spell. As far as overlapping goes, all Darkness/Deeper Darkness says is...
Magical light sources only increase the light level in an area if they are of a higher spell level than darkness.
Maybe I'm just missing the bit where they temporarily negate each other?
EDIT: Oh, I see...it's under Daylight.
Daylight brought into an area of magical darkness (or vice versa) is temporarily negated, so that the otherwise prevailing light conditions exist in the overlapping areas of effect.
That's confusing. :-/
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This is why I shy away from the PRD. The material is nice, but too often the text is paraphrased and/or missing language.
From the CRB...
Daylight brought into an area of magical darkness (or vice versa) is temporarily negated, so that the otherwise prevailing light conditions exist in the overlapping area of effect.
Daylight counters or dispels any darkness spell of equal or lower level, such as darkness
So if you use Daylight vs. Darkness, it should dispel the darkness effect and provide bright light out to 60 feet.
If you use Daylight vs. Deeper Darkness they will temporarily negate each other (duration) and whatever other light/darkness effects are prevalent act normally.|
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Maybe I'm just missing the bit where they temporarily negate each other?
It's in the daylight spell. 'Daylight brought into an area of magical darkness (or vice versa) is temporarily negated, so that the otherwise prevailing light conditions exist in the overlapping areas of effect.'
It's just that these rules are spread out over the texts of about 4 spells.
So, for example, here's how it works.
light vs non-magical darkness: Light increases the lighting level 1 step.
light vs darkness; Darkness is higher level. Light therefore does not improve the lighting level, darkness lowers it one step from ambient. Deeper darkness is the same, but lowers the lighting 2 steps from ambient.
darkness vs daylight: Darkness and daylight are both negated, apparently, as per text under daylight. Ambient lighting prevails. It might make more sense to have the daylight prevail, casting bright light for 60 ft and improving the lighting level 1 step beyond that, but hey.
deeper darkness vs daylight: Both spell effects are negated where they overlap. Ambient lighting prevails. (This is why my high level PFS character has a dayfinder - that monster can spam deeper darkness all day long, but in 60 ft of me, he's out of luck. Until my spell runs out.)
Ah, yes. Ninjas!
This is why I shy away from the PRD. The material is nice, but too often the text is paraphrased and/or missing language.
As noted, it has nothing to do with the PRD vs. the book. The wording under Darkness (Darkness trumps light) is different from the wording in Daylight (Daylight trumps darkness) which is why I was confused.
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This is why I shy away from the PRD. The material is nice, but too often the text is paraphrased and/or missing language.
Are you sure you're not thinking of the SRD? Because the PRD is run by Paizo, is official, etc. And I think it's just copy/pasted from the PDFs of the various books it covers.
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I added a spoiler tag.
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Lots of new players learn the game from more experienced players...so setting a good thoughtful example is great imprinting upon others. If we experienced good players want new good players to play with, we need to teach and train them by setting a good example.Most of you already know how strongly I believe in teaching new players and what I expect for myself at a PFS table, so most of my yahoos have Wands of CLW.
Off-Topic: I would like to mention that my younger brother (11 years younger) is getting into PFS and GMing and the first thing I thought of to get him started info wise were your threads.
You've done a fantastic job of prepping GMs with info.
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The 3 characters I have played all have CLW wands.
However, I think there would be a lot of game variance based on:
- how many players are experienced
- how many players read the boards
- how many players go to conventions or travel to other games
- how many healers are regularly played locally, lessening the need
- how much the experienced players/GMs push the idea
- how much the same group always plays together. ie if you know 3 of your regular party-mates has a wand, you may hold off
I think the 80% is about correct for characters of experienced, travelling players, but I would not be surprised if it's under 50% for the Society as a whole.
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I heard multiple people here saying that level and experience plays a big role. So does the GM and the environment. I took the time to compile some data for the Sunrise Lodge UK. These are pretty much all players with only one missing - the second local GM.
We have a lot of casual players and I try to slowly move them up. I denote how I rate them on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being a fully dedicated player (only me in this dataset).
The dataset is derived from my HeroLab files. As a service for the casual players around (and to ensure characters are rules legal and not misinterpretations of rules) I offer a level-up and print character sheet service using HeroLab.
The only other hardcore gamer (I would rate him 8) has his own HeroLab program - so I don't have his data.
This data shows just 30% of characters having a wand. So how to explain this?
Close to 100% have some potion. So they have healing - they just don't optimize it - and the local GM (me) is only encouraging to get healing but I'm fine to tell them - get some potions. I don't see anything wrong with someone drinking a potion even if this is sub-optimal.
Several of the wands not belonging to classes that can use the wand are wands bought with limited charges.
There is a trend towards higher level and towards more experience to get wands.
Clerics and similar spellcasters often get one with 2PP.
The Wizard7/Pathfinder Chronicler1 is the highest level without a wand. He has the Caretaker trait, a Healers kit as well as potions of CLW and CMW. He was the main 'healer' in his first games as having the highest heal skill and helped stabilize people. But no - he currently has no wand of CLW. And I'm not feeling ashamed of it. I'm not asking everyone to have a Wand of Locate Secrete opening with him, or a scroll for comprehend Languages. He is heavily loaded on magic items (I need to scroll in HeroLab to see them all) including a lot of buff items for the group. That is what I bring into the party - so should I get wounded (which does happen less often as for other characters) then I don't feel bad if some cleric uses up a charge on his wand.
So in summary there are local differences. For example reading here that you should have a wand of CLW does put peer pressure on players - and they will buy them. So far I - as the most influentual player/GM here - didn't put this peer pressure on players. And so the ratio of CLW pocession is low.
Thod
The dataset:
Class Level Wand CLW Casual Gamer
Rogue 4 no 4
Rogue 1 no 1
Cleric 6 yes 4
Ranger 4 yes 4
Cleric 3 no 5
Fighter 1 no 2
Rogue 1 no 4
Cleric 5 yes 2
Barbarian 3 no 4
Ninja 2 no 4
Cleric 7 yes 10
Bard 2 yes 10
Monk 1 no 2
Fighter 10 yes 4
Monk 1 no 10
Rogue 4 no 3
Fighter 6 no 5
Ranger 1 no 10
Wizard 1 no 2
Fighter 1 no 2
Druid 4 yes 2
Rogue 2 no 2
Ranger 2 no 3
Barbarian 1 no 1
Fighter 4 yes 4
Barbarian 4 no 10
Wizard7/PFChronicler1 8 no 10
Monk 4 no 5
Fighter 1 no 1
Fighter 2 no 3
Fighter 1 no 1
Summoner 5 yes 10
Fighter1/Sorceror3 4 yes 5
I have 9 played characters and all but one of them had enough PA to get a wand of CLW. All but one of them therefore has a wand of CLW...
Along with channel energy and domain powers it's made playing clerics far more interesting as it frees up spell slots (so they all have one) and I consider it a courtesy for any non healing character to get one too. MotFF is a harsh intro mod with no PA though.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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IMO availability and willingness of other players to heal you when you don't have a wand is the biggest reason people do/ don't buy them.
If your regular PFS group has clerics or oracles who don't mind doing party healing then your players are far less likely to have wands. If you are in a group where very few of the characters have a lot of healing magic it's a bit more likely.
In my experience players who have the wands get frustrated seeing 20+ charges burned off in a session and there is no way for them to get cross compensated for it.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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My only confusion on the 'greedy cleric' not wanting to heal the party... Does the wizard only use spells when he's the one being attacked? Does the rogue only disable devices he wants to? Does the bard not sing when the rest of the party needs the buff? etc.
My characters currently carry potions because we can't rely on a cleric in the party (I'm looking at making a rogue to keep 'in the folder' since we haven't had a rogue in any of the events i've been to so far.) but why wouldn't a healer, um, heal?
but why wouldn't a healer, um, heal?
Not all clerics are healers. Similarly, not all wizards cast Fireball in battle and not all rogues are trap disarmers.
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but why wouldn't a healer, um, heal?Not all clerics are healers. Similarly, not all wizards cast Fireball in battle and not all rogues are trap disarmers.
No, but in PFS, most *can* heal (chanelling/spont casting or just memorizing). I was getting the impression from some of the posts that the thought was "Just because I can heal, doesn't mean I'll heal you". Maybe I was reading too much hostility into the posts that wasn't there.
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My only confusion on the 'greedy cleric' not wanting to heal the party... Does the wizard only use spells when he's the one being attacked? Does the rogue only disable devices he wants to? Does the bard not sing when the rest of the party needs the buff?
The comparison only works if those are the things those characters wanted to do in the first place.
If I want to be healed and the cleric wants to be a healer, fine. If I want to be healed and the cleric doesn't want to be a healer, I shouldn't expect him to spend his gold/prestige to do what I'm insisting he should do.
If I want a fireball dropped on the bad guys and the wizard wants to be a blaster, fine. If I want fireballs dropped and the wizard doesn't want to be a blaster (maybe he's summon-focused, or a utility guy, etc), then I shouldn't expect him to spend his gold/prestige on fireball scrolls. I should buy them and say "here, blow stuff up if need be".
If I want someone disabling traps and the rogue is a trap monkey, fine. If I want someone disabling traps and the rogue doesn't want to be a trap monkey... I'm not really sure what consumables apply to this one, but you get the idea.
Telling other players what their characters' jobs are is bad.
No, but in PFS, most *can* heal (chanelling/spont casting or just memorizing). I was getting the impression from some of the posts that the thought was "Just because I can heal, doesn't mean I'll heal you".but why wouldn't a healer, um, heal?Not all clerics are healers. Similarly, not all wizards cast Fireball in battle and not all rogues are trap disarmers.
I certainly agree that a cleric that's built to be a healer and then refuses to heal anyone is being a jerk. :-)
But insisting that a cleric uses his spell slots for Cure X Wounds is just like insisting that a wizard use his spell slots for Fireball; i.e., also jerk-y.
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But insisting that a cleric uses his spell slots for Cure X Wounds is just like insisting that a wizard use his spell slots for Fireball; i.e., also jerk-y.
This. Telling another player what to invest their spell slots, skill ranks, favored class bonuses, stat points, levels, etc in is inappropriate. Just because the demand in question happens to involve healing doesn't give it a free pass.
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No, but in PFS, most *can* heal (chanelling/spont casting or just memorizing). I was getting the impression from some of the posts that the thought was "Just because I can heal, doesn't mean I'll heal you".but why wouldn't a healer, um, heal?Not all clerics are healers. Similarly, not all wizards cast Fireball in battle and not all rogues are trap disarmers.I certainly agree that a cleric that's built to be a healer and then refuses to heal anyone is being a jerk. :-)
But insisting that a cleric uses his spell slots for Cure X Wounds is just like insisting that a wizard use his spell slots for Fireball; i.e., also jerk-y.
Agreed, but to me expecting to drop spell X for cure X is akin to expecting the guy with the lock pics and ranks to, well, try to open the lock. Or the guy with the bow to use his arrows. But then I'm a sharing guy*. Heck, Rey carries a potion of mage armor (and really wishes for a potion of shield) in case the party needs him in melee. (for a flanking buddy, with STR 10 he's not hitting much.)
Edit: Maybe I'm not being clear in my viewpoint. I'm saying for a character with healing ability (or lockpicking ability, or any ability) to not use that ability to advance the party's goals seems counter productive (jerkyness optional). If the rogue who comes to the table, for example has disable device, MW lockpicks etc, but expects me to use a scroll of knock to open the door, just because I have one, is being rude. His skill is a 'renewable resource' my scroll isn't.
Likewise, if a cleric has channels, cure spells etc and tells a player to 'use your own damn wand', I consider that rude. It would be akin to Rey (once he gets mage armor) saying, "Gee Mr. Cleric, I could cast sleep to get that sextet of goblins off of you, but my mage armor wears off in 2 hours and I might need it." Spell slots 'come back' at the end of the adventure, consumables don't**
Different strokes for different folks. I'm not going to demand "Heal me, damnit!" but if we're a group, I'm going to expect resources used to benefit me because it benefits the mission, just like I'll burn that last spell slot to cast sleep on the goblins above.
*
**
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Agreed, but to me expecting to drop spell X for cure X is akin to expecting the guy with the lock pics and ranks to, well, try to open the lock.
My head spins with the wrongness of that comparison. With the spells, the cleric was planning X and you're asking him to do Y instead. He wanted to do one thing, and you're expecting him to do something else. With the lockpicking, you're just expecting him to do what he was already going to do in the first place. You're not expecting him to change anything.
Agreed, but to me expecting to drop spell X for cure X is akin to expecting the guy with the lock pics and ranks to, well, try to open the lock. Or the guy with the bow to use his arrows.
It's not quite the same. Saying "do X instead of Y" is different from "do X instead of doing nothing".
Looking down on people because they don't do what you would do with their limited resources is jerky, whether that resource is gold or spell slots or feats or whatever. (Yes, that includes looking down on people for not buying a wand of CLW as well.)
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Agreed, but to me expecting to drop spell X for cure X is akin to expecting the guy with the lock pics and ranks to, well, try to open the lock.My head spins with the wrongness of that comparison. With the spells, the cleric was planning X and you're asking him to do Y instead. He wanted to do one thing, and you're expecting him to do something else. With the lockpicking, you're just expecting him to do what he was already going to do in the first place. You're not expecting him to change anything.
It's ok, my head spins with the incompleteness of the quote. You missed the arrow comment at the end, even before my edit. It's like with Rey's potion of mage armor. It's designed as a 'don't hit me' defense, but I'll use it if I am needed in a role he's not designed for.[/i] I'm saying I'm expecting to use my resources to advance the mission, even if there's no benefit directly to me (or an inconvience).
Let me give another example. Talyn has dancing lights. I use them to flush things out, to light up corners, etc. If I'm exploring with people who have lanterns and torches, I say "Never mind that, I've got lighting covered." Allowing them to save their consumable resources for something else. Since Talyn's a magus, I'm taking up a cantrip slot that can be used for something more immediate to benefit the party. If Rey is adventuring with a cleric, I'll ask him if he'll take stabalize as a cantrip, since as I read it, it can provide Rey with unlimited out of combat healing* freeing up resources for other party members. If he's willing to sacrifice that renewable resource, it frees up other things.
As to "I was planning to do X" No plan survives contact with the enemy. I was planning to get wet in Hydra's fang. I didn't.
*
Edit: I'm dropping this as it's derailing the thread. Agree to disagree?
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@Matthew Morris:
1. Yeah, I don't think there's any further point discussing this with you. Based on your responses, I don't think real communication is happening between us.
2. On the "unlimited healing". There are multiple problems with your interpretation. First, "magical healing" almost always refers to recovering hit point damage, which Stabilize does not do. In fact, it really doesn't even make you any healthier. But anyway, the second and more obvious issue is this: if, as you say, you get an extra 2 HP "per die rolled"... you're not rolling any dice with Stabilize. Last I checked, 2*0=0. So even if Stabilize counted as "magical healing" and would trigger your ability, it would recover a whopping 0 HP. And third, honestly, when you decided this would grant you infinite healing in Organized Play, that didn't tip you off that you might be mistaken about something?
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Just wanted to add my 8 characters between 2nd and 12th level. All have CLW wands and all purchased with PP within their first couple of mods. That includes a healy cleric and a druid.
At almost every table I have been at almost everyone has a CLW wand. Spells and channels are used in combat and wands are almost always used out of combat.
Yes, the happy stick "costs" more than a renewable cure spell, but wouldn't you rather I have a spell slot to use in the next encounter instead of firing my crossbow.
a party of 4 PC
a Fighter, a cleric, a wizard and a rogue are looking at what wands to buy.
Cleric - "You guys need to get Wands of CLW, so I can use my spells for things besides healing, and perhaps the rogue should take ranks in UMD"
Fighter - "you guys need wands of Mage Armor and Shield (of Faith) and maybe Shocking grasp, so I can use my bow. I'm an archer, so you'll need to be in melee.
Wizard - "you guys need to get wands of Detect Magic and Identify, I don't take that cantrip and can't ID magic items."
Rogue - "you guys need to get wands of Summon monster, so I can have flanking buddies."
I think the Fighter, Cleric and Wizard's requests are reasonable ("if you want to have X, you'll have to get it for yourself"). The Rogue's request is not ("I want X, so you'll have to get it for me").
Not that I agree with the stance that the Cleric is automatically the healer - but... the following is my view point.
I run a healer. I tell the other PCs that. My character is built to keep the other PCs up and in the fight. So I buy a wand of CLW - and use it (sometimes a lot - I'm almost out on the first one). and I swap my spells to heals... a lot.
I have run another type of cleric. I set down and anounce that I am Melee Combat monkey (fighter) and at one point in the game I channel negitive energy (Selecting out my fellow PCs). Everyone is stunned. They thought I was a Fighter not a Cleric. "I don't heal you guys - so I'm a Melee Combat monkey".
see the difference?
...that some clerics are healers and some aren't? Of course!
(For the record, I often play divine casters who do a lot of healing and I have no problem with it whatsoever.)
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(Yes, I said I was bowing out. Last one I promise!)
see the difference?
I hate when people make my points clearer than I do. :P
@Jiggy
Given that it's a specific combo that requires (in my case) 2 characters and isn't useful in combat, no I didn't. Rey and Talyn both carry acid flasks (Rey carries 2) to get the unlimited +1 to damage on their cantrips and part of the attraction to snapdragon fireworks was at higher levels, once he gets the spell up and running, it gives a little more damage and a (admittedly trivial) saving throw for (level + 1) rounds just by giving up a move action. (and I can still 5' step if need be). Last combat in fact, I was able to do 8 points to the BBEG on the second round (hit with the acid splash for 4 points due to the flask, hit with the snapdragon for 4 points and a failed save) because of this trick. Not bad for the caster standing 30' away. I just figured I found another 'exploit' that allows resources to be freed up for fellow party members.
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My first PFS character bought a wand of CLW with his first 2 PA.. as a martial character who couldn't even use it. (at the time.. I've since tooled my cavalier up to be a UMD monkey and among other things, CAN now use happy sticks on himself! I'm even looking at buying a wand of Mount for times when the GM is all 'no you can't bring your horse on this adventure...' :)
The story: My second chronicle was played with a table otherwise full of brand spanking new characters with no adventures at all yet. And the closest thing to a healer we had was a druid who could prepare all of ONE CLW per day. As we wondered whether the day was destined to be an exercise in futility, the GM looked to me and suggested I spend ALL OF MY ACCUMULATED PA.. BOTH OF THEM on a wand for me to let the druid use thru the adventure to keep us all healed up.
I was actually reluctant to do so at the time, but by the time the adventure was over I was fully converted to the idea of happy sticks.
Of course, I also play in the Denver/Co Spgs region and so am possibly contaminated by the self-fulling phenomenon :D I probably wouldn't have taken that first step had the GM not strongly suggested it..
With that experience, my second character also spent the first 2 PA on a wand of CLW. My third has yet to receive a chronicle, but I expect to do the same thing yet again. Well, technically, a wand of Inflict Light Wounds, since he's my Dhampir BBB boon toon :D
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When I sit down at a table and am decideing on what PC to run, I ask what everyone else is running. Sometimes it's like I am speaking a different language. I guess I'm just getting to be "the old guy". I realize it's my expectations that are at fault, but come on guys - help the old dude out here. When I say "what are you running?" you can respond with "A face kind of guy" or "A Tank" or even "An insane Pyromanic Gnome" but if you say one of the following, I will make certain assumtions about your character. If you say:
[[assumptiony stuff]]
That's why I'm asking. I have several characters available that I can play (perhaps as many as 5). Each very different. I don't what do run the same thing as you, but I also want to run what the party needs! (or what I think we'll need)
End of mini-Rant - and thank you.
nosig, this is completely my point of view, so feel free to ignore and I offer it only as a discussion of player types that may or may not alleviate your expectations.
It's already fact that a party table doesn't need a balanced party to complete PFS scenarios. You don't need to play an X, Y, or Z to succeed...that's a myth that I wish I could stomp to death and beat into a non-resurrect-able mush then feed into a Sphere of Annihilation which I would then touch with a Rod of Cancellation.
I truly believe that the game is at its best when players are playing the characters that they want to play rather than feeling that they need to play an X, Y, or Z out of some misguided notion of 'balance'.
I get that you don't want to run the same thing as someone else. It's not a big issue for me, but understand how coming in the same costume to the holiday party might be embarrassing for some.
I, for one, won't tell people what I'm playing before the game starts. I do this for two reasons:
1) I don't want players determining what to play based of what I am playing because they mistakenly think we need an X, Y, or Z.
2) I don't want other players to expect me to do A, B, or C because my class can do those things. I find that to be incredibly annoying when players put class ahead of character when the primary objective should always be character ahead of class. I play characters who can (but may not) do A, B, or C. But I don't 'play' a class.
So, that said, there might be more players out there like me who aren't trying to annoy you when they don't help you decide what to play.
They might feel as I do...and it's not personal.
To others out there, please keep this side discussion spoiler to protect this thread's topic or start a new topic. This was meant to be a side note to nosig.
Regional Venture-Coordinator, Gulf
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I play mostly at public events; game days, conventions and stores. I do play the odd home game, when I find an odd home. I come prepared.
Three chars:
Druid, right at conversion
Pally/Cleric First purchase was a CLW wand
Sorcerer Played once, wand is next purchase.
I suggest to newbies they:
Buy a CLW wand.
Buy some sunrods
Buy a missile weapon (What, you can't carry a dart or a sling?)
Buy an alchemist fire or two (swarm prevention or spell exhaustion insurance)
Sometimes a morning star, extra points if it is silver. (simple, blunt and piercing)
Sometimes a dagger
Everybody find a club (its free)
You club is your most versatile item. You can swing it, you can aid to hit another with it, in your hand you are a flank buddy, you can throw the club as a weapon, you can burn it, and if you are hungry enough boil it until its soft and eat it.