|
Hi,
First let me say nearly all of my PF games are Core Only, so feats/rules from UC/UM or Settings books I'm very fuzzy on. Please bear with me if this is a stupid question.
I get the RAGE (it's a Barbarian after all)
I get the LANCE (it's a long pointy stick)
But POUNCE, the only reference I can find is in the Bestiary. How does AM BARBARIAN get pounce?
Given I believe the damage is calculated based on doubled damage with the LANCE that the AM BARBARIAN is mounted. So am I right in assuming the POUNCE is from the mount? If so. How does the POUNCE ability get transferred to the Barbarian on it's back? Isn't that sort of like having one Wizard piggy-back the other then saying the he now gets all of the (Ex) abilities of the Wizard on the bottom?
I would get if you say BOTH mount and Barbarian are charging giving the mount ALL it's attacks and the Barbarian a single attack - but I don't see how the Barbarian ends up with all her attacks also?
Trying to understand,
S.
Note that the pounce does not work in conjunction with iterative attacks.
Hi,
First let me say nearly all of my PF games are Core Only, so feats/rules from UC/UM or Settings books I'm very fuzzy on. Please bear with me if this is a stupid question.
I get the RAGE (it's a Barbarian after all)
I get the LANCE (it's a long pointy stick)But POUNCE, the only reference I can find is in the Bestiary. How does AM BARBARIAN get pounce?
Given I believe the damage is calculated based on doubled damage with the LANCE that the AM BARBARIAN is mounted. So am I right in assuming the POUNCE is from the mount? If so. How does the POUNCE ability get transferred to the Barbarian on it's back? Isn't that sort of like having one Wizard piggy-back the other then saying the he now gets all of the (Ex) abilities of the Wizard on the bottom?
I would get if you say BOTH mount and Barbarian are charging giving the mount ALL it's attacks and the Barbarian a single attack - but I don't see how the Barbarian ends up with all her attacks also?
Trying to understand,
S.
Rage power; in this case:
Beast Totem, Greater (Su)
Prerequisite: Barbarian 10, beast totem rage power
Benefit: While raging, the barbarian gains the pounce special ability, allowing her to make a full attack at the end of a charge. In addition, the damage from her claws increases to 1d8 (1d6 if Small) and the claws deal x 3 damage on a critical hit.
James Jacobs stated on these forums that Pounce does not work with iterative attacks. Expect an errata soon, I guess.
Note that the pounce does not work in conjunction with iterative attacks.
That's what pounce does, allows you to full attack on a Charge. A full attack is using your iterative attacks.
|
|
Note that the pounce does not work in conjunction with iterative attacks.
Trinam wrote:
Relevant rules text:Da SRD wrote:
Pounce (Ex)When a creature with this special attack
makes a charge, it can make a full
attack (including rake attacks if the
creature also has the rake ability).
Format : pounce; Location: Special
Attacks.
Don't see why you couldn't full attack, personally.
The thread should have, at least for rule discussion purposes, have ended here.I do not see how it could be made any more clear.
There is literally zero support for limiting the full attack. The only note is an addition of even more attacks than a regular full attack.
Of course it is too powerful for PCs. It was a stupid decision to make it accessible
Agreed it looks pretty straight forward. I was missing the Beast Totem thing from APG.
Once again I'm sticking to my motto "Blessed are those who play Core Only". I can't think of one single RPG that has increased in overall playability by the addition of 'Splat Books'. I will add however that Paizo does some of the nicest looking Splat Books ever and I that gladly subscribe to them, but would never allow them in play in games I'm running.
Thanks for the enlightenment and security that such things aren't going to 'pounce' out at me during my Core Only game!
S.
|
|
Note that the pounce does not work in conjunction with iterative attacks.That's what pounce does, allows you to full attack on a Charge. A full attack is using your iterative attacks.
Perhaps a simple rewording so that attack routines (e.g. claw/claw/bite) count but iterative attacks (i.e. multiples of the same attack) don't is in the wind?
EDIT: This would be exactly the way 2nd Edition AD&D handled multi-attack forms vs Multi-attacks during a round. A dragon would slap you silly before you got to say 'but I have a second attack...'
S.
James Jacobs stated on these forums that Pounce does not work with iterative attacks. Expect an errata soon, I guess.
Please do provide a link, or perhaps a quote. I seem to recall James Jacobs encouraging GM's to be the ones to decide that particular issue, but never saying that it didn't allow iteratives.
James Jacobs stated on these forums that Pounce does not work with iterative attacks. Expect an errata soon, I guess.Please do provide a link, or perhaps a quote. I seem to recall James Jacobs encouraging GM's to be the ones to decide that particular issue, but never saying that it didn't allow iteratives.
Pounce works with all weapons, manufactured or not. You can't take iteratie attacks with a pounce, of course, and in most cases that won't be an option anyway since the vast majority of creatures that have pounce are not manufactured weapon users.
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/community/offTopic/askJamesJacobsAllYo urQuestionsHere&page=177#8808
|
|
James Jacobs stated on these forums that Pounce does not work with iterative attacks. Expect an errata soon, I guess.Please do provide a link, or perhaps a quote. I seem to recall James Jacobs encouraging GM's to be the ones to decide that particular issue, but never saying that it didn't allow iteratives.
This from JJ - the link is given above;
Zark wrote:
I know this isn't a rule forum, but ....
Pounce In the bestiary. Pounce does not stipulate what weapons you need to use. If a monster has natural attacks and can use manufactured weapons could it use pounce with manufactured weapons?
I always thought pounce was meant for natural attacks, but the rules doesn't stipulate that.
JJ wrote in reply:
Pounce works with all weapons, manufactured or not. You can't take iteratie attacks with a pounce, of course, and in most cases that won't be an option anyway since the vast majority of creatures that have pounce are not manufactured weapon users.
My emphasis btw.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Once again I'm sticking to my motto "Blessed are those who play Core Only". I can't think of one single RPG that has increased in overall playability by the addition of 'Splat Books'.
Splat can get out of hand, but man, I love the APG. I love it so much. I'd rather house rule pounce if it gets crazy, but there's so much goodness in the APG. (Specifically the archetypes, though there's some great spells, too)
James Jacobs stated on these forums that Pounce does not work with iterative attacks. Expect an errata soon, I guess.
Note that James is the Creative Director, not a developer.
My personal take for stuff JJ says is that if he specifically mentions the intent of the ability, then it's a good indicator for RAI. If he does not mention intent, then it's just his personal take on it as a GM.
Also note that the Bestiary errata was released in August 2011, a few months after James said this.
Since it was not included in the errata for the Bestiary, where it would be, it stands that James' statement is not, and should not, be taken as an official stance.
If you scroll down a few more:
Thanks for the answer although it confuses me.
No iteratie attacks with a pounce?
Barbarian with Greater beast totem ability can use it. So can druids in wildshape.A raging level 11 Barbarian with Greater beast totem ability using his claw and animal fure rage power could charge and get 3 attacks. 4 if hasted.
A hasted level 11 barbarian with greater TWF using weapons would get 7 attacks, but you say he can use no iteratie attacks. So how many attacks would he get? Only one? Or one attack with weapon and one bite attack? Or two attacks and one bite?
As Diego Rossi put it: I think no one has problems with someone using a bite/claw/claw/rake attack, it is the greataxe//geataxe/greataxe/greataxe attack that make someone pause.
That's why we have GMs. So they can make those tough decisions for us.
Pounce works best as a monster ability, to help monsters stay "caught up" to the PCs.
Not all abilities should be farmed out to anyone and eveyone.
Since it was not included in the errata for the Bestiary, where it would be, it stands that James' statement is not, and should not, be taken as an official stance.
It would be better for the game if it would though. RAGELANCEPOUNCE is beyond cheese.
It would be better for the game if it would though. RAGELANCEPOUNCE is beyond cheese.
Since it was not included in the errata for the Bestiary, where it would be, it stands that James' statement is not, and should not, be taken as an official stance.
An ability being used in one specific way that, through the interactions of many different parts of the rules, is overpowered does not mean the entire ability must be changed.
And there is a difference between cheese, and overpoweredness. I have yet to see any cheese in the build.
An ability being used in one specific way that, through the interactions of many different parts of the rules, is overpowered does not mean the entire ability must be changed.And there is a difference between cheese, and overpoweredness. I have yet to see any cheese in the build.
I assume everyone agrees that using a lance (with x3 damage) on a charging mounted pounce is cheese.
|
|
Once again I'm sticking to my motto "Blessed are those who play Core Only". I can't think of one single RPG that has increased in overall playability by the addition of 'Splat Books'.Splat can get out of hand, but man, I love the APG. I love it so much. I'd rather house rule pounce if it gets crazy, but there's so much goodness in the APG. (Specifically the archetypes, though there's some great spells, too)
One of those personal things. I can't find anything in the APG that can't be accomplished using the Core Rules. The APG classes can in the most be made using Core Classes, and the ones that can't strike me more as Steampunk than Fantasy. The Core rules are so many kinds of awesome and with each printing even more awesome. The other rulebooks are well presented but meh, for me. Now the AP's and setting stuff - genius, pure genius.
Core + AP's = girly squeals of delight. :)
Core + Splats = supply of pain killers required to run a game. :(
S.
|
RAGELANCEPOUNCE is the same as level20casterdoesn'tevenhavetosayhowhedefeatsyouhejustdoes...
In that it doesn't need to be 'fixed' by rules changes because it is an internet-only piece of theorycrafting that will never happen at a table.
Suddenly we have a lot of AM threads which don't have enough all caps posts. This make me sad.
In that it doesn't need to be 'fixed' by rules changes because it is an internet-only piece of theorycrafting that will never happen at a table.
What about PFS? You can get Greater Beast Totem at lvl 11.
James Jacobs stated on these forums that Pounce does not work with iterative attacks. Expect an errata soon, I guess.
Finally. It was so sad imaging a character making full attack with a lance (!!!) at the end of a charge. I have never permitted this on my games.
RAGELANCEPOUNCE is the same as level20casterdoesn'tevenhavetosayhowhedefeatsyouhejustdoes...
In that it doesn't need to be 'fixed' by rules changes because it is an internet-only piece of theorycrafting that will never happen at a table.
Suddenly we have a lot of AM threads which don't have enough all caps posts. This make me sad.
BARBARIAN APOLOGIZE. AM FIXING NOW. AM TAKING TIME FLYING AROUND EVERYWHERE; WAY EASIER WITH ONLY 1 OR 2.
BARBARIAN AM TOO POPULAR. D:
Can we please have less AM threads? This is what? The 8th in a few days? And this one is basically a duplicate of this one in the very same forum.
|
|
What about PFS? You can get Greater Beast Totem at lvl 11.
In that it doesn't need to be 'fixed' by rules changes because it is an internet-only piece of theorycrafting that will never happen at a table.
Yep, but you can't get AM BARBARIAN RAGELANCEPOUNCE at level 11.
With a kind GM and a character planned from level 1 you can get battybat (but not the synthesist) and a bunch of the abilities but you won't be spell sundering hither and thither, you won't be waving around all of the magic gear speculated about on the thread...
RAGELANCEPOUNCE is not going to make a very successful organic character for doing all of the different things you do in an adventure. Your barb is probably only more capable of adventuring than Schroedinger's Wizard because your barbarian can actually exist.
How many times, in your PFS playing, having you spotted a window of opportunity for a barbarian riding a giant bat to initiate a charge?
Everyone is aware of cavaliers and mounted skirishmer, right? They will be able to do more damage (without the survivabilty) as AmBarb. And then there are paladins, that can do the same trick. Rangers can grab a flying mount at level 4, and be pouncing at level 10. And then there are paladins, that can do the same tricks. AmBarb is awesome, but he's not a unique occurrence.
|
|
I've had my question answered and fears removed, as we don't use rules from anything except Core, AND a visit from AM BARBARIAN.
Frankly for me I am counting my post as a win.
Thanks to those (and AM BARBARIAN) for taking the time to distill numerous threads with numerous points of view into something my little brain could handle.
Can I declare this thread closed?
Cheers,
Stefan.