Goblinworks Founder
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What system for gathering would you prefer with what we know of Pathfinder Online so far.
Individual Nodes:
Individual resource nodes that replenish-repopulate once they have been depleted. The current standard in most MMO's.
Player explores are, hammers away at resource node, node depletes in three seconds and the player moves on to the next AKA Grinding
Large Nodes:
A large vein of ore, granite, or coal where a player or group of players actually set up a mine or quarry and slowly deplete the area of resource over an extended period of time.
Similar to an RTS game like Warcraft or Age of Empires, the player establishes a camp and assigns gatherers to provide an income of resource.
Example 1: the quarry has 5000 units of stone, each player can take away 1 stone at a time or 5 if he is using a cart. The node eventually depletes over time depending on how many people are there working in the quarry
Example 2: A silver vein has 5000 units of silver within. Without a mine, only 500 silver ore can be gathered. Players sink a mine to access the full 5000 units of silver ore. Again, the mine depletes at a rate determined by how many people are there to mine.
This would also make the decision of where large guilds would establish their keeps and eventual city. Obviously an empire rich in natural resources will be a powerful empire and possible target of many other rivals looking to expand or steal their resource.
How about both? :)
Small nodes randomly and infrequently spawn, and they are rarer. This will be a nice prize for small-operation explorers and guilds that don't have the resources(whether it be time, security, players and/or money for mining tools) to undertake excavating a large vein.
Large veins will appear in modular places (because I am sure terrain deformity and/or digging our own caves will not be technologically possible) in caves/dungeons/abandoned mines. These would be more ideal for larger guilds that do have what it takes to guard and extract these resources.
Also finding a large vein as a small time person would be awesome. "There's gold in them thar hills I tell ya! Seen it with my own two eyes, I swear to Desna herself! I see that glint in yer eye, son, and I know you and your folk will be wanting to grab that treasure! Well I got this map I'm selling to the highest bidder at noon today in front of the Drunken Dame! Don't you try no funny business cuz the guards'll be there!"
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Goblinworks Founder
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I'm in favor of both for sure.
I've always liked the idea of the second option in a sandbox MMO. The idea of prospecting for gold and striking it rich would be great fun.
You could take great care in keeping your claim secret or you could stake the claim, sink a shaft and pay for protection and laborers to mine it for you. That is on a solo player or small group level.
There is also the option for a large organized clan to find a good quarry and begin building their keep. Sending out scouts before they begin their empire building, finding a good plot with several large resources nearby would mean that they can establish their initial keep or fort faster and sustain it for longer.
I picture this game could be a healthy mix of third person fantasy RPG with a real time strategy elements between warring clans.
I for one favor a bit of both, given there will be both fixed and deplete-able resources - some replenished by time like lumber and game, others like mines having a probable maximum supply over time, but with limited amounts gather-plausible at any given time. Given the existence of magic, it might be possible to incorporate it into the workings of the game for purposes of semi-perpetual resourcing.
For example; people always wonder what druids can be up to when they aren't preventing houses from being built and forcing civilization to stay the hell away - let them work their magics to help restore balance by helping mines absorb 'overflow' from the elemental planes. Nodes that appear above ground in the wild are the results of natural planar bleed-over. Clergy praying at shrines can help restore or reinforce the consecration of the area. Rangers can help cause a prey 'boom' by maybe keeping some predator numbers down, so that more deer and such can be hunted for food.
Goblin Squad Member
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I'm probably in the minority here, but I would prefer to see 'Mines' as a constant source of 'wealth' in game, to prevent people from strip-mining the entire map and 'killing' the region.
A mine should be able to produce X, Y or Z amount of Ore, Gems or Rock, Depending upon the number of NPCs hired to mine and including the number of PCs that help out. At the same point, a Mine should also come under assault by Goblins, Orcs, Bandits, Rival PC Guilds/Bands and the occasional Dragon.
Nodes, on the other hand, should be a more common, but much less profitable, source of Ore, Gems and/or Rock. NPCs should be able to loot them to, although not with great regularity.
Mines should be a source of great wealth and power in the region, with the Guild that 'owns' the land (and it should be much, much more expensive than 'farmland', due to the rich resources it holds) being able to build their fortress right on top of the mine and thus be able to ensure only their NPCs or other PCs who are willing to earn X amount of Gold per Unit of Ore they bring back to sell (plus a minor fee for entering the mine, waived if the PCs give Y-amount of Ore to the Guild that owns the mine) rewards people who band together to make the mine work, then expand it, protect it (either by themselves or by setting up guard NPCs for when they are offline) and continue to work it.
Nodes should be useful but not something you could build an empire upon. I think a method based the Skyrim model, where the Ore 'nodes' in a mine replenish over the course of a week, but nodes outside the mines take a month to restore themselves, or appear in random locations within a set area.
Forests and Lumber on the other hand .... I see the Node method working here, PCs can either cut down fallen trees (and avoid getting the Dryad crawling up their ass) for a reduced percentage of wood gained, or they can cut down living trees for a far greater percentage of wood and risk the local Fey getting mildly psychotic about the whole deal. Continual harvesting of lumber in an area should increase the % of having hostile Fey, NPC Druids and Animals turn up and start laying into your operation , while guilds that run more 'gentle' operations that only target Fallen Tree Nodes or take other steps to placate/bribe/work with the Local Fey might gain benefits in ways other than resources.
Farms are something I would like to see. Being able to raise crops and livestock, or breed horses (or more exotic beasts for the truly adventerous!) to provide food, leather and wool and mounts would be a nice touch, if perhaps a little too farm into the 'Second Life' side of things.
Ooooooh, drifting off topic, but Taverns! PLAYER MADE, OWNED AND RUN TAVERNS! WOOOO-HOOOOOOOO!
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Goblinworks Founder
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I'm probably in the minority here, but I would prefer to see 'Mines' as a constant source of 'wealth' in game, to prevent people from strip-mining the entire map and 'killing' the region.
A mine should be able to produce X, Y or Z amount of Ore, Gems or Rock, Depending upon the number of NPCs hired to mine and including the number of PCs that help out. At the same point, a Mine should also come under assault by Goblins, Orcs, Bandits, Rival PC Guilds/Bands and the occasional Dragon.
Nodes, on the other hand, should be a more common, but much less profitable, source of Ore, Gems and/or Rock. NPCs should be able to loot them to, although not with great regularity.
Mines should be a source of great wealth and power in the region, with the Guild that 'owns' the land (and it should be much, much more expensive than 'farmland', due to the rich resources it holds) being able to build their fortress right on top of the mine and thus be able to ensure only their NPCs or other PCs who are willing to earn X amount of Gold per Unit of Ore they bring back to sell (plus a minor fee for entering the mine, waived if the PCs give Y-amount of Ore to the Guild that owns the mine) rewards people who band together to make the mine work, then expand it, protect it (either by themselves or by setting up guard NPCs for when they are offline) and continue to work it.
Nodes should be useful but not something you could build an empire upon. I think a method based the Skyrim model, where the Ore 'nodes' in a mine replenish over the course of a week, but nodes outside the mines take a month to restore themselves, or appear in random locations within a set area.
Forests and Lumber on the other hand .... I see the Node method working here, PCs can either cut down fallen trees (and avoid getting the Dryad crawling up their ass) for a reduced percentage of wood gained, or they can cut down living trees for a far greater percentage of wood and risk the local Fey getting mildly psychotic about the whole deal. Continual harvesting of...
Well said. I love the idea of depleting nodes and mines. For terminology sake I would say nodes and veins, as a mine could be sunk at either site, but a node would deplete over time whereas a vein would continue deep into the earth.
I also love the idea that wandering monsters could assault the mines. Maybe it could be randomly attacked from the surface or miners accidentally sink a shaft into the under-dark. It would give adventurers something to do if they had to clear out incursions once in a while.
With lumber I would suggest multiple ways of gathering it, harvesting deadwood, harvesting hardwood and softwood.
Deadwood is a finite resource and you are never guaranteed to find a lot of dead trees in one particular area.
Hardwood is plentiful but cannot be replenished as the trees take hundreds of years to grow. Hardwood would be the strongest and most durable of lumber. Hardwood Lumberjacks would also be subject to assaults from the Fae.
Softwood can be replenished but is not as strong as either Hardwood or Deadwood. Softwood can be replenished via plantations.
I'm still in favor of having PCs being able to help with resources - plant growth and similar sorts of dedicated resources can replenish in part what is harvested, placate the Fae, and make for potential profit in-game in the form of cash where people can afford to pay, and possibly reputation gains where it is done semi-altruistically.
I'd also like for martial classes to be able to apply their strength to work in the abbatoir, but that's probably more in-depth than people would want to go.
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Goblinworks Founder
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I'm still in favor of having PCs being able to help with resources - plant growth and similar sorts of dedicated resources can replenish in part what is harvested, placate the Fae, and make for potential profit in-game in the form of cash where people can afford to pay, and possibly reputation gains where it is done semi-altruistically.
I'd also like for martial classes to be able to apply their strength to work in the abbatoir, but that's probably more in-depth than people would want to go.
Definitely. I don't want NPC's to take over the whole process. I still want to be able to harvest things myself and allow other players to share my resource plot if we are from the same township.
The abattoir hadn't occurred to me to be honest. It is a good example though. Cooks obviously need meat and an abattoir would definitely be needed in a larger community. Hunters would only feed so many before exterminating the surrounding wildlife so it only makes sense that cattle should be farmed and slaughtered to feed the community.
I definitely think a leadership skill would be handy as a way that a craftsman could advance. By taking leadership, owning their own store or plot (whether it is a forge, abattoir, kitchen, sawmill, mine etc)they can attract followers to help them. They would be merely laborers on retainer though, if the player wanted to increase production then hiring players would be the best option.
I'm still in favor of having PCs being able to help with resources - plant growth and similar sorts of dedicated resources can replenish in part what is harvested, placate the Fae, and make for potential profit in-game in the form of cash where people can afford to pay, and possibly reputation gains where it is done semi-altruistically.
I'd also like for martial classes to be able to apply their strength to work in the abbatoir, but that's probably more in-depth than people would want to go.
Definitely. I don't want NPC's to take over the whole process. I still want to be able to harvest things myself and allow other players to share my resource plot if we are from the same township.
The abattoir hadn't occurred to me to be honest. It is a good example though. Cooks obviously need meat and an abattoir would definitely be needed in a larger community. Hunters would only feed so many before exterminating the surrounding wildlife so it only makes sense that cattle should be farmed and slaughtered to feed the community.
I definitely think a leadership skill would be handy as a way that a craftsman could advance. By taking leadership, owning their own store or plot (whether it is a forge, abattoir, kitchen, sawmill, mine etc)they can attract followers to help them. They would be merely laborers on retainer though, if the player wanted to increase production then hiring players would be the best option.
To me, I think of the populace of the respective township as the resource to drive commerce - many have expressed a lack of interest in being a lumberjack/farmer/butcher, there's enough players who want to ensure the skills are available for player characters, so that IF they wanted to, they could...and I think that the hybrid approach would make things make sense by allowing those with the interest to run the shops, if they so desire, but have the actual work done by hired NPCs or volunteers whom the PCs might have saved themselves.
This also allows for the implementation of improved value of slain monsters and 'vendor trash' - just like how in a certain oft-derided theme park MMO you can skin some enemies (sometimes even as an herbalist, with plant monsters), materials that normally would not be viable for regular purchase could be available, though I see such things being more valuable for the more alchemicaly or thaumaturlogically inclined.
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Goblin Squad Member
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An idea that just occured to me, if a Guild builds their base, or enough people build in one small region to create a 'town', players could then place their unwanted items in a 'communal supply depo' where the items are converted into a slush-fund used to automatically repair the building(s) (at a very slow rate!), or alternatively, each item adds half it's gold value into the economy of the town/immediate region.
The second option might seem strange at first, but being able to change the town from having only the buying power of a hamlet to a village is a fairly massive jump, and then from village to small town, and thus not only allowing the NPCs more wealth to buy/sell/steal, but also potentially attracting new NPCs who may or may not have access to a broader skill-set and an expanding pool of items to purchase/steal/sell.
Expanding the players' 'village' also has the benefit of that, if you build enough houses, you might be able to 'sell' them to the NPCs and other PCs, earning yourself some quick cash if you built the houses yourself, or 'rent' them out for a slower but long-term benefit. The other side to this is that if the houses get burned down/destroyed, you are the bunny who has to rebuild them if renting.