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If a rogue succeeds on stealth check does he get +2 to his attack roll against his target's flat-footed AC? What about an aboleth attacking with its 15-foot-long tentacle from behind an illusory wall? In both situations, the target of the attack cannot visually locate the attacker; rendering them essentially invisible.
I think that I'm running the same module as you.
I believe that the RAW answer is no. The new stealth playtest rules might fix that.
No, being invisible or unnoticed by your target are 2 different situations but they lead to the same result : he/she loses his/her Dex bonus to AC and you have +2 to attack him/her.
I say yes.
Otherwise a rogue can't sneak attack from stealth. The only way stealth can grant a sneak attack is by getting them a surprise round.
Being invisible means you aren't seen, but an eneny can still be aware of you by the noise you make and other senses. However, they also can't see where your blows are coming from to block them.
Being unaware of someone, by definition, they not only haven't seen you, they also haven't heard you, or detected you in any other way. However, unlike invisibility, they potentially CAN see the blow right before it lands.
The rules are very specific about invisibility (lose dex, +2 to hit) and on the result of being unaware of someone at the start of combat (flat footed, plus a surprise round) but say nothing about what it means to be unaware of someone in the middle of combat.
The new steath rules they're working on take a stab at clarifying this, but I think a fair house rule is to say an unaware opponent is flat footed against your attack (as per the begining of combat), but you don't get the additional +2 (unless your blow is also in fact invisible).
Being invisible means you aren't seen, but an eneny can still be aware of you by the noise you make and other senses. However, they also can't see where your blows are coming from to block them.
Being unaware of someone, by definition, they not only haven't seen you, they also haven't heard you, or detected you in any other way. However, unlike invisibility, they potentially CAN see the blow right before it lands.
The rules are very specific about invisibility (lose dex, +2 to hit) and on the result of being unaware of someone at the start of combat (flat footed, plus a surprise round) but say nothing about what it means to be unaware of someone in the middle of combat.
The new steath rules they're working on take a stab at clarifying this, but I think a fair house rule is to say an unaware opponent is flat footed against your attack (as per the begining of combat), but you don't get the additional +2 (unless your blow is also in fact invisible).
In pathfinder invisablity does in fact make you quieter.
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The rules are very specific about invisibility (lose dex, +2 to hit) and on the result of being unaware of someone at the start of combat (flat footed, plus a surprise round) but say nothing about what it means to be unaware of someone in the middle of combat.
The new steath rules they're working on take a stab at clarifying this, but I think a fair house rule is to say an unaware opponent is flat footed against your attack (as per the begining of combat), but you don't get the additional +2 (unless your blow is also in fact invisible).
Not flat-footed... they're denied their Dex bonus to AC. Sorry if that's a little nitpicky but its a square and rectangle kind of thing.
--Like a Vrock
The rules are very specific about invisibility (lose dex, +2 to hit) and on the result of being unaware of someone at the start of combat (flat footed, plus a surprise round) but say nothing about what it means to be unaware of someone in the middle of combat.
The new steath rules they're working on take a stab at clarifying this, but I think a fair house rule is to say an unaware opponent is flat footed against your attack (as per the begining of combat), but you don't get the additional +2 (unless your blow is also in fact invisible).
Not flat-footed... they're denied their Dex bonus to AC. Sorry if that's a little nitpicky but its a square and rectangle kind of thing.
--Like a Vrock
Big difference if you doing the sap line of feats.
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The rules are very specific about invisibility (lose dex, +2 to hit) and on the result of being unaware of someone at the start of combat (flat footed, plus a surprise round) but say nothing about what it means to be unaware of someone in the middle of combat.
The new steath rules they're working on take a stab at clarifying this, but I think a fair house rule is to say an unaware opponent is flat footed against your attack (as per the begining of combat), but you don't get the additional +2 (unless your blow is also in fact invisible).
Not flat-footed... they're denied their Dex bonus to AC. Sorry if that's a little nitpicky but its a square and rectangle kind of thing.
--Like a Vrock
But isn't your flat-footed AC, by definition, your AC without your Dex bonus?
But isn't your flat-footed AC, by definition, your AC without your Dex bonus?The rules are very specific about invisibility (lose dex, +2 to hit) and on the result of being unaware of someone at the start of combat (flat footed, plus a surprise round) but say nothing about what it means to be unaware of someone in the middle of combat.
The new steath rules they're working on take a stab at clarifying this, but I think a fair house rule is to say an unaware opponent is flat footed against your attack (as per the begining of combat), but you don't get the additional +2 (unless your blow is also in fact invisible).
Not flat-footed... they're denied their Dex bonus to AC. Sorry if that's a little nitpicky but its a square and rectangle kind of thing.
--Like a Vrock
Flat-Footed
At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed. You can't use your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) while flat-footed. Barbarians and rogues of high enough level have the uncanny dodge extraordinary ability, which means that they cannot be caught flat-footed. Characters with uncanny dodge retain their Dexterity bonus to their AC and can make attacks of opportunity before they have acted in the first round of combat. A flat-footed character can't make attacks of opportunity, unless he has the Combat Reflexes feat.as you can see its much more.