Group consists of:
Cavalier, small sized with a medium mount, uses a net and trident, and generally just gets in the way.
Ninja
Fighter
Witch, focusing on de-buffs
I will be the fifth, but can't really decide on a class... suggestions?
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One...two...three...three and a half...
YOU HAVE THREE AND A HALF MARTIAL CHARACTERS!
Time to play a bard.
"Pfffft! A bard?! He wants me to play a froofy singing bard who is constantly getting a wedgie from the real fighters?!" you say, as you spit your coffee out in disbelief.
No, my friend. I want you to be awesome. Why? Because you're a bard. You deserve to be a awesome.
How do you be awesome? Simple my friend.
Inspire Courage. Good Hope. Haste. All in one round. At level 7.
"THAT'S UNPOSSIBLE!" you scream out, momentarily forgetting that unpossible is not a word.
Nay my friend. A rod of quicken, lesser is 35,000 gp.
"But that's almost half as much as the WBL at level 7 is!"
True. But who says you'll be paying for all of it? The primary benificiaries of it are the cavalier, ninja, and fighter. The Witch gets the speed boost and the nice boost to AC. You won't be paying for it all my friend.
You'll be splitting the cost 5 ways, for 7k each. That's less than a third of your WBL and will do more to boost the effectiveness than anything else that can be bought at that level.
You will be giving +5 to hit (+2 Inspire Courage +1 haste +2 Good Hope), +4 to damage (+2 IC, +2 GH), +30 move speed, +1 AC, +4 saves vs fear and charm, +2 saves versus everything else, and an extra attack!
That you, the ninja, the fighter, the cavalier, and whatever the cavalier is riding all get to make! That's a huge DPR boost for your party, and every single thing that got hit because of your buffs is *your* damage and *your* kill.
"But but but, I'll still be singing and prancing around the battlefield like a minstrel who found himself in middle of the battle of agincourt!" you sputter.
Not true! Bardic Performance is like Rage now. There is no requirement to use any Perform skills, unless you want to use Distraction or Countersong. And who needs Distraction when you are so g+%!~~n awesome already? Also, Perform skills help with Versatile Performance, which is an amazing ability.
You just turn it on, and the magicalness of the ability does the rest of the work.
May I suggest how you should go about inspiring your brothers in arms? Be a half-orc with Perform (Smash In Face With Great Axe). Or be extra awesome and be an archer bard. Those guys kickass, since they get so many arrows from Manyshot / Rapid Shot / Haste, and they get some sweet damage increases, and more importantly to-hit bonuses from their buffs.
Oh no! Your fighter is at 1 HP and despite all your buffs (+25% chance to hit!) missed the attack that would kill the BBEG, whose turn is next! Oh, just kidding! He didn't after you added +2d4 to his roll as an immediate action. Remember, the average of 2d4 is +5. So with your buffs and that, you are giving +10 to hit.
Which is +50% chance to hit.
Did I mention that you'd get one of the coolest spell lists ever? Summon (Mostly) Immovable Rod is a level 1 spell! Throw up a Mirror Image at level 4, and wade into combat! Your Witch would love Arcane Concordance. It's amazingly hard to buff DCs. And this does it for free! Be an archer and stick near the Witch if you can. Or rather, have him stick near *you*. And hot damn, it can Extend your buffs for free!
If that hasn't convinced you, I don't know what would.
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LMAO!
I read the OP and just as I finished I recalled the phrase everyone loves to say...
Bards make great fifth characters.
Oh you have a caster? A fighter? A rogue? A cleric?
Yep time to be a bard.
My advice to you...make sure and pick up a cohort when you can and make him into your little defense B****.
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I would say Cleric or Wizard. Your witch has de-buffs covered but I find party buffs to be much more effective (i.e. don't need to hit or wait for saves). Either class brings a lot to the part other than buffs.
Alternately, when I have trouble choosing a class I like to roll 3d6 and take them in order. Depending on where the stats are high (or low) I will pick the class that best fits. Then I will roll or point buy (depending on DM) to built the character I have chosen.
Thought about a sorcerer... Hadn't really considered Bard, but am looking into it a bit now.
Cleric would maybe be ok, but the cavalier in combination with the other martial classes makes getting to melee difficult.
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Your group needs more healing. Obviously, cleric is the top choice for that, but bard is a decent option, too.
Echoing Cheapy I still say Bard. Trust us...Bards get healing spells on their list. Just play a Bard, buff the living $#!T out of your party, and use wands as necessary. Just because you can't cast Cure Serious Wounds at level 2 doesn't mean you can't use a Cure Serious Wounds wand at level 2...no roll, no skill check, just point and shoot.
What are you going to do as a Cleric? Heal and Buff.
What are you going to do as a Bard? Buff and Heal...only better.
PS-Don't go Sorceror...the Witch SHOULD have debuff and battlefield control on lock down and you have enough DPR, so I can't see what you'd do as a Sorceror.
Eh, the witch can heal just as well as any non-(cleric / oracle). In fact, they can do it better due to the Healing hex.
You don't need healing. Focus on force multipliers!
Evangelist archer clerics are solid too. They can get close to buffing as well as the bard (their inferior buffing/support spells makes it so they can never reach the same level of awesome-inducing).
If you do go for a Martial caster, think of yourself as a fighter who needs at least 14 in one stat. Don't pump Cha as a non-caster bard. Pump Dex if you go archery, or strength if you get in melee.
Since you do have a ton of allies in melee, archery will be tough to pull off. You can't get ImpPreciseShot til 15ish!
Your group needs more healing. Obviously, cleric is the top choice for that, but bard is a decent option, too.
Play a cleric with the Strength domain so that you can cast Enlarge Person and get in the cavalier's way.
Or play a paladin to keep the ninja and witch in line.
Seriously though, an oracle archetype would fit in nicely. It's a divine healer and exotic enough to mix well.
Eh, the witch can heal just as well as any non-(cleric / oracle). In fact, they can do it better due to the Healing hex.
You don't need healing. Focus on force multipliers!
Evangelist archer clerics are solid too. They can get close to buffing as well as the bard (their inferior buffing/support spells makes it so they can never reach the same level of awesome-inducing).
If you do go for a Martial caster, think of yourself as a fighter who needs at least 14 in one stat. Don't pump Cha as a non-caster bard. Pump Dex if you go archery, or strength if you get in melee.
Since you do have a ton of allies in melee, archery will be tough to pull off. You can't get ImpPreciseShot til 15ish!
I guess I'm left wondering "What can I do then?"
If I can't do archery because of all the clutter from the allies in melee, which also makes melee difficult... and if I shouldn't control since the witch should have that on lock...
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Eh, the witch can heal just as well as any non-(cleric / oracle). In fact, they can do it better due to the Healing hex.
You don't need healing. Focus on force multipliers!
Evangelist archer clerics are solid too. They can get close to buffing as well as the bard (their inferior buffing/support spells makes it so they can never reach the same level of awesome-inducing).
If you do go for a Martial caster, think of yourself as a fighter who needs at least 14 in one stat. Don't pump Cha as a non-caster bard. Pump Dex if you go archery, or strength if you get in melee.
Since you do have a ton of allies in melee, archery will be tough to pull off. You can't get ImpPreciseShot til 15ish!
I guess I'm left wondering "What can I do then?"
If I can't do archery because of all the clutter from the allies in melee, which also makes melee difficult... and if I shouldn't control since the witch should have that on lock...
You will be the ultimate support class.
You heal when necessary, battlefield control when necessary, and buff the living daylights out of EVERYONE ELSE.
Sure you can shoot a xbow here or there, but the bulk of what you will be doing is playing super support guy AND being the face of the party. Not to mention your Cha score will be high enough that using wands for spells that aren't on your spell list (like fireball, lightning, or magic missile) shouldn't be too hard at all.
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Eh, the witch can heal just as well as any non-(cleric / oracle). In fact, they can do it better due to the Healing hex.
You don't need healing. Focus on force multipliers!
Evangelist archer clerics are solid too. They can get close to buffing as well as the bard (their inferior buffing/support spells makes it so they can never reach the same level of awesome-inducing).
If you do go for a Martial caster, think of yourself as a fighter who needs at least 14 in one stat. Don't pump Cha as a non-caster bard. Pump Dex if you go archery, or strength if you get in melee.
Since you do have a ton of allies in melee, archery will be tough to pull off. You can't get ImpPreciseShot til 15ish!
I guess I'm left wondering "What can I do then?"
If I can't do archery because of all the clutter from the allies in melee, which also makes melee difficult... and if I shouldn't control since the witch should have that on lock...
Precise Shot feat eliminates the archery penalty for firing into melee. The only prerequisite is Point Blank Shot, so if you're human, you can take both at first level. Or you can take Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot at first level to fire two arrows at a time at first level, but with the penalty for firing into melee, then take Precise Shot at level 3 to eliminate that penalty.
Yea, Precise Shot is easy to get, and negates the -4 to shooting into melee.
Improved Precise Shot is the one that let's you ignore the -4 from firing past allies.
Imp Precise Shot isn't necessary if you can Fly somehow. Which bards can't easily, but it can be done.
+1 to Bard. If you want to be an archer, be a Halfling. They get bonuses to Dex and Cha and another +1 to attack, and the Str penalty isn't that big a deal. Free longbows are nice, but shortbows aren't that big a deal to have to use. The only race that really competes for archer is Human because of the bonus feat.
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+1 to Bard. If you want to be an archer, be a Halfling. They get bonuses to Dex and Cha and another +1 to attack, and the Str penalty isn't that big a deal. Free longbows are nice, but shortbows aren't that big a deal to have to use. The only race that really competes for archer is Human because of the bonus feat.
I actually disagree. I made a halfling bard as my first Pathfinder character and regretted it.
The str penalty hurts bow damage, so you'll have to make sure you have 10+ str or else use a light crossbow. If you go with a race with higher str, you can get a composite bow and add your str bonus to damage.
If I were doing another bard today, I'd probably go human for the bonus feat and go all archery feats. Get a str of at least 12, or better yet 14 if you can afford it, and get a composite short bow to match.
+1 to Bard. If you want to be an archer, be a Halfling. They get bonuses to Dex and Cha and another +1 to attack, and the Str penalty isn't that big a deal. Free longbows are nice, but shortbows aren't that big a deal to have to use. The only race that really competes for archer is Human because of the bonus feat.I actually disagree. I made a halfling bard as my first Pathfinder character and regretted it.
The str penalty hurts bow damage, so you'll have to make sure you have 10+ str or else use a light crossbow. If you go with a race with higher str, you can get a composite bow and add your str bonus to damage.
If I were doing another bard today, I'd probably go human for the bonus feat and go all archery feats. Get a str of at least 12, or better yet 14 if you can afford it, and get a composite short bow to match.
That's true and Human is also an excellent choice for a feat starved archer. However, both Dex and Cha are more important than Str, so mathematically it's better to be a Halfling as far as ability scores go, even if that means you need to have a 14 Str from point buy to have a +1 bonus. 1 point of damage per arrow, even with multiple arrows per round, isn't as important to a Bard as a higher Cha.
I'd put the stat importance as Dex > Cha > Con > Str > Wis > Int
Dex for attack, initiative, ac, Reflex saves, and skills
Con for Fort saves and hit points
Cha for bonus spells, skills, and save dcs
Str for damage from bows and carrying capacity
Wis for Will saves and Perception
Int for skill points
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25 Point Buy:
Human:
Str 13
Dex 18 (16 + 2)
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 14
Halfing:
Str 12 (14 - 2)
Dex 18 (16 + 2)
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 16 (14 + 2)
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Yes, that knocks Wis down a bit, but Dex and Cha are your two most important stats. Having a +2 composite bow doesn't make THAT big a difference compared to having a +1 composite bow. As long as Str is at least a 10, you're not doing too badly.