"As the skies blacken with the armies aligned against magic and for it the undulating horror of the Caster-Martial Disparity god feels something. Perhaps it is excitement, perhaps it is disdain. Its many eyes gaze casually at the ants that devour one another consuming their economies and sundering the heavens themselves. But still, it waits. For it is a god of the End. And even this is merely the beggining."
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You know, I'm approaching this all wrong.
No. You don't have that much money. No, you don't have that many cohorts. As we've previously established, it's impossible.
And you also can't get the barbarian into a range where you can teleport 400 people on top of him so they can all use one magic missile. That's also impossible.
Clearly, AM BARBARIAN would fly in on a giant mecha and just murder your entire army, before going on to fly through a rainbow into a manly sunset of stars and dreams. We have already established this, if you cannot follow this you are a moron. Clearly, Barbarians are better.
And I dare you to prove me wrong, because you can't.
This is a sufficient argument, I feel.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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As I said, he already is breaking it in his build with his cohort.If you're breaking WBL, so is he.
Nope, he's not.
The cohort has its own WBL. And AM, being the generous boss that he is, is taking some of his own loot and letting his cohort use it. This loot is still AM's loot, part of his PC WBL. The cohort is just carrying it for him. A PC is perfectly able to have his cohort carry stuff for him.
Well, how does AM feel about
1.Magai-Hexcrafter or Myrmudon
2.Inquisitors of Ragathiel/Gorum (rage domain) or Imodae(war domain)
3. Arcane Duelists
4. Fighters
5. Summoners (besidessaying 'you AM MOUNT) then mounting them.
Already did prove it. And yes, I can get that much money and yes, I can get that many NPC's following me. Completely by the rules.
I've already explained how to get them in, etc. But faced with a real thought out challenge, where the wizard is being smart and not fighting on the Barbarian's terms, you resort to ad hominum attacks.
What? No. I'm resorting to an argument of 'since you're refusing to listen to any logic outside your own, I'll just write a narrative too.'
An ad hominum attack would be if I said you smell bad.
Technical note: an ad hominem attack would be if one said Slyth smelled bad, and therefore his argument is wrong. Saying he smells bad would just be abuse.
D'oh.
Either way he's pigeonholed himself into the same general area as the guy who said you could heighten and dazing a Snapdragon Fireworks and make it be a 6th level spell with a 6th level-equivalent save DC (Thus double-dipping Dazing as also heightening the DC). Mechanics am not work that way, and thus the debate has become about entertainment value.
I can definitely entertain. :D
Wouldn't AM BARBARIAN see the horde of wizards? If AM BARBARIAN kills 5 wizards, does that cause the wizards leadership score drop by 5 instantly thus causing him to lose close to 50+ followers and 2 cohort levels? Though i guess it could be argued that putting 135 people into the path of a casty hating barbarian isn't killing them but merely putting them in an unfavorable circumstance.
@Jason Nelson - Thanks for adding some versatility to the martial classes via combat maneuvers. I hope that there is another type of ultimate combat book that expands on giving each class more unique skills that are not easily replicated by spells.
Ah, interesting to know.
Well, one would have to find him through conventional means. Can anyone make gather information rolls with 20 points in diplomacy?
How can the AM BARBARIAN or his cohort see an invisible wizard?
How about a Contingent Wall of Iron. At level 20 it has 600 hps, hardness and can't be spell sundered, in addition to stopping his charge ahead of reaching the wizard, so his pounce wouldn't hit. Lets not mention the fact that slamming into a flat wall at roughly 100 mph without anything protecting him would likely kill him, and the mount.
Or a contingent Disintegrate targeting the weapon?
What is the BARB's Str during this whole process?
How would he deal with multiple protection spells? Spell Sunder only allows for one such attempt per rage.
A couple teleportation circles (Cast off scrolls) would do the trick.They teleport in so no chance to detect them before hand.How, precisely, are you teleporting in hundreds of individuals in a single round?
Or a gate spell.
HRM. SO. CASTY AM BREAKING ALL RULES RELATED TO WBL, WAY SCRYING FROM CRYSTAL BALL WORKS (NOTE CASTER TIME. AM REALLY HARD TO PASS ONE, PARTICULARLY BECAUSE ONE AM STILL 1/DAY), WAY TELEPORTATION WORK, AM ASSUMING THAT EVERY SINGLE FOLLOWER AM SINGLE CLASS AND SINGLE BUILD, AND ALSO ASSUMING BARBARIAN SOMEHOW NOT NOTICE MASS GATHERING OF CASTYS IN PLACE.
YES, GM FIAT AM STILL ABLE TO KILL BARBARIAN. THIS ESTABLISHED LAST TIME THIS CAME UP. BUT IF AM MAKING STUFF UP, CLEARLY BARBARIAN ABLE TO DO SAME THING. WHO WANT SEE BARBARIAN STORY?
How about a Contingent Wall of Iron. At level 20 it has 600 hps, hardness and can't be spell sundered, in addition to stopping his charge ahead of reaching the wizard, so his pounce wouldn't hit. Lets not mention the fact that slamming into a flat wall at roughly 100 mph without anything protecting him would likely kill him, and the mount.
Or a contingent Disintegrate targeting the weapon?
What is the BARB's Str during this whole process?
PLEASE CONTINGENCY WALL OF IRON OR DISINTEGRATE. SPELLS AM ONLY ABLE TO AFFECT CASTY OF CONTINGENCY. CASTY EITHER CRUSH SELF INSIDE WALL, OR DISINTEGRATE SELF.
AM REALLY WEIRD WAY TO DEAL WITH BARBARIAN, BUT... BARBARIAN GUESS AM NOT GETTING RAGELANCEPOUNCED?
How about a Contingent Wall of Iron. At level 20 it has 600 hps, hardness and can't be spell sundered, in addition to stopping his charge ahead of reaching the wizard, so his pounce wouldn't hit. Lets not mention the fact that slamming into a flat wall at roughly 100 mph without anything protecting him would likely kill him, and the mount.
Or a contingent Disintegrate targeting the weapon?
What is the BARB's Str during this whole process?
PLEASE CONTINGENCY WALL OF IRON OR DISINTEGRATE. SPELLS AM ONLY ABLE TO AFFECT CASTY OF CONTINGENCY. CASTY EITHER CRUSH SELF INSIDE WALL, OR DISINTEGRATE SELF.
AM REALLY WEIRD WAY TO DEAL WITH BARBARIAN, BUT... BARBARIAN GUESS AM NOT GETTING RAGELANCEPOUNCED?
Gods, your writing is like that of a 5 year old. I know it's for flavor but jeeze, I can barely understand you.
Wizard casts Contingency: WALL, set trigger for [insert perfect trigger here] (anything coming within 50ft of you, etc), wall instantly casts regardless of the barb's position/abilities, barb collides with wall, gg?
Does he have a persistent Anti Magic field? If so, wall still appears, but disintegrate does not.
It helps to read the rules. In this case:
The spell to be brought into effect by the contingency must be one that affects your personWhich is what AM said.
Ah, thankyou. I can't understand that gentleman's* ramblings. They're cute, but they got old fast. Forgive my missreading the spell.
Still hasn't addressed the possibility of the mage being invisible, or something similar.
In addition, what about something along the lines of Contingency dim door to dodge the attacks, time stop on your turn, do what ever to win?
Contingent dimension door is of course possible.
You probably won't be surprised to find out that "time stop and do whatever to win" has been pretty much every caster's go-to tactic. What's very surprising is that in like 40 pages of trying, people have had astonishingly little luck with selecting a "whatever to win" that actually wins.
Still trying to find an answer to how the barbarian is finding a perpetually invisible wizard. Get a ring of invis and activate it every 3 minutes. Unless he can hear you from a mile away, he'd have a hard time pinning you down.
Might I enquire as to what the barb's saves look like? I know his willsave is through the roof, but are his fort and ref equal there? What about his str, can he get it above 44? If not, a simple rapid excavation/stone shape/rock to mud+ready mud to rock could trap him in place. Or encase him in several walls of x, even with spell sunder it only affects one spell per rage, so two walls of force and you're good to go.
Drop him in a portable hole, pop open a gate, etc. lots of possibilities with time stop.
Lord Armour Casty is very happy to have survived RAGELANCEPOUNCE and his mighty intellect having been proved right regarding the squishier casty target one field over intends to break WBL himself by writing a mass market paperback call "When Barbarian's RAGELANCEPOUNCE: Living to tell the tale."
Want to take a share of they royalties AM? After all i suspect millions more low level casty's will be buying a copy for 10gp and 99sp for my insights into RAGELANCEPOUNCE!(tm). I was thinking i could set you up a ressurection fund just incase one of us does manage to kill you, can't have my meal ticket stop threatening the low level casty's that are going to prop up my book and film career.
Also who does AM want to get to play him in the movie? Matt Damon?
Still trying to find an answer to how the barbarian is finding a perpetually invisible wizard. Get a ring of invis and activate it every 3 minutes. Unless he can hear you from a mile away, he'd have a hard time pinning you down.
Perception isn't just sight. You have to silence all your spells (hear the details of a conversation, DC 0. Can be done from about 800 ft. for batty-bat, and that's assuming we want to hear the DETAILS), get a damn good stealth modifier if you want to move (hear the details of a whispered conversation should be about equal to hearing someone fly quickly, DC 15, can be done from 650 ft.). Also, notice the stench of casty crapping his pants is -10, so detectable from about 900 ft., but only after casty has understood who AM is.
Without remembering details, the answers are yes, AM has good Fort and Reflex saves, and yes, AM also has a lot of Strength. BATTY BAT has an insane Perception score and blindsight, and AM has arcane sight to help out.
The consensus on gate is something like the following: since time stop makes creatures invulnerable to spells and anything you're attempting to gate in is a creature, gate doesn't work during time stop.
Other tactics, I don't recall AM's response off the top of my head. Presumably the ones involving trapping him via rapid excavation/rock to mud/etc fail because he's on BATTY BAT for a reason. Given that he's flying, wall of stone is of no use at all because the wall has to be anchored to other rock.
I do note that any tactic which involves ending your turn within close range of AM BARBARIAN is highly likely to be... poorly chosen.
And AM should totally get Danny Trejo.
Cast Timestop, cast Instant Summons bringing forth a Sphere of Annihilation (no more hand :(, ) upon which you had previously cast Arcane Mark (any material, sphere does not negate magic as per RAW), move Sphere of Annihilation toward AM BARB, back up contingency of toss Rod of Negation at Sphere causing large explosion.
OR
Cast Dimensional Anchor on self. Toss Portable Hole into Bag of Holding while standing near barbarian.
OR
Break Staff of the Magi/Staff of Power while standing next to barbarian, contingency dim door away from ensuing explosion.
OR
Waves of exhaustion? (one quickened with rod if need be)
Still trying to find an answer to how the barbarian is finding a perpetually invisible wizard. Get a ring of invis and activate it every 3 minutes. Unless he can hear you from a mile away, he'd have a hard time pinning you down.Perception isn't just sight. You have to silence all your spells (hear the details of a conversation, DC 0. Can be done from about 800 ft. for batty-bat, and that's assuming we want to hear the DETAILS), get a damn good stealth modifier if you want to move (hear the details of a whispered conversation should be about equal to hearing someone fly quickly, DC 15, can be done from 650 ft.). Also, notice the stench of casty crapping his pants is -10, so detectable from about 900 ft., but only after casty has understood who AM is.
Greater rod of Silence, and a shaped silence spell/Overland flight with some ranks in stealth should net about the same stealth bonus as the Bat has perception.
I know AM has a specific counter to waves of exhaustion. I don't remember what it is.
The other strategies seem like they might work, but who knows? I should remind you that any strategy which requires being within AM's considerable charge distance is probably not a terrific idea, though!
But what do I know? Without actually seeing AM's build, it's hard to say. Accusation of Schrodinger's barbarian, though, aren't accurate, as AM just uses the same basic things over and over again, mostly involving having all sorts of rage powers and being ridiculously good at sundering.
And, of course, being an unholy combination of insane awesomeness and fractured common. With a degree in engineering.
The process of this whole thing is to determine a way to stop the AM from completely shredding any caster that comes it's way, is it not? It seems that for all his tricks, a simple contingency: dimdoor to teleport you out of the way, then time stop and re apply spells/do stuff completely obliterates his ability to one shot you.
Given that HE is the one with the uber abilities, and his mount and weapon are not, simply removing those from the process makes him incredibly useless all of a sudden, even if you ARE still in range of him (and haven't recast your contingency spell yet again).
Also, Scouring Winds is a spell that stops his ability to kill you, though you'd need some way to keep it active and not take 3d6 damage every turn, etc!
I do agree though, he is a wicked fun build and I commend whoever came up with him for a jobwelldone. It's just hard to counter him without having something to build on, numerically and such!
any build that depends on leadership is dead in the water as far as i'm concerned. Its almost universally banned and will make any character uber if used correctly.
Hey so, assuming we don't ban leadership and AM gets too keep that synthesist mount... why hasn't anyone taken into account giving it dimension door too counter the dimension door "fix" that was just proposed?
Plus I think any use of contigency should have it spelled out what the contingency is exactly.
Hey so, assuming we don't ban leadership and AM gets too keep that synthesist mount... why hasn't anyone taken into account giving it dimension door too counter the dimension door "fix" that was just proposed?
Plus I think any use of contigency should have the spelled out what the contingency is exactly.
Dim door was a simple example of one use use of contingency. It could be used for something else like Blur, Shadow Walk, teleport, or a myriad of other spells. Also, with the right spells active/items in possession, you could simply teleport into the ground and negate the chance for him to follow you with his own Dim door.
Keep in mind that Contingency is a Wiz/Sorc only spell and is personal only. Thus only a specially crafted magic item could replicate the effect for the summoner mount or barbarian, and it would have to be very carefully worded to specifically locate and negate the wizard's cast.
Any use of contingency could have a million million different wordings that would take way way too long to write down here. Lets just say that it's perfectly worded and get on with it! =D
Lastly, because of the way this combat is worked out, there's debate over whether or not you can keep a readied action on hand to counteract the incoming missile that is the barb. Should you be able to ready an action, he is charging you so you get to act first, should you know he approaches, giving you another cast (or say, use of your teleportation school ability) before he collides with you! That is also supported by the abilities like Foresee and the Divination school's abilities.
Teleporting into the earth is a poissbility. All the rest would just be sundered, then again if the synthesist had a burrow speed we enter into uncertain terrain. He could follow, but the barb could die of suffocation, then again probably not before murdering you, just needs a way to pinpoint where underground you went.