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SPELL NOT NEED SAVE. BARBARIAN FEEL NOT FEAR.
RIGHT NOW, ALL SITE, ALL PIZAO, BE THEY CASTYS, MARTIALS, GISH, BUFFERS, DEBUFFERS, NPC CLASSES, EVERYTHING. ALL AM WORKING TOGETHER TO DESTROY END OF WORLD! ALL WORK TOGETHER AM STOPPING STUPID GOD OF DECAY!
BARBARIAN AM WINNER OF MANY ARGUMENTS. TODAY, BARBARIAN NOT WINNER ALONE.
IN ARGUMENT OF EVERYONE VERSUS C-M DESTRUCITY, AM TAKING EVERYONE TO WIN. AM ALL CHARACTERS, EVERYWHERE WORKING IN TEAM TO OVERCOME CHALLENGE. CHALLENGE LIKE C-M DESTRUCITY GOD. AM NOT CASTYS, MARTIALS, ETC. AM ONLY PCS AND THINGS PCS AM SMASH.
DESTRUCITY AM THING PCS AM SMASH.
GOD AM FALL TO RAGELANCEPOUNCE. GOD AM FALL TO SOD. GOD AM FALL TO BUFFING AND DEBUFFING AND MIND-BLANKET INVISIBILITY. PIZAO AM SUNDER GOD, AM CASTYFY GOD, AM OBLITERATE GOD.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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SPELL NOT NEED SAVE. BARBARIAN FEEL NOT FEAR.
RIGHT NOW, ALL SITE, ALL PIZAO, BE THEY CASTYS, MARTIALS, GISH, BUFFERS, DEBUFFERS, NPC CLASSES, EVERYTHING. ALL AM WORKING TOGETHER TO DESTROY END OF WORLD! ALL WORK TOGETHER AM STOPPING STUPID GOD OF DECAY!
BARBARIAN AM WINNER OF MANY ARGUMENTS. TODAY, BARBARIAN NOT WINNER ALONE.
IN ARGUMENT OF EVERYONE VERSUS C-M DESTRUCITY, AM TAKING EVERYONE TO WIN. AM ALL CHARACTERS, EVERYWHERE WORKING IN TEAM TO OVERCOME CHALLENGE. CHALLENGE LIKE C-M DESTRUCITY GOD. AM NOT CASTYS, MARTIALS, ETC. AM ONLY PCS AND THINGS PCS AM SMASH.
DESTRUCITY AM THING PCS AM SMASH.
GOD AM FALL TO RAGELANCEPOUNCE. GOD AM FALL TO SOD. GOD AM FALL TO BUFFING AND DEBUFFING AND MIND-BLANKET INVISIBILITY. PIZAO AM SUNDER GOD, AM CASTYFY GOD, AM OBLITERATE GOD.
I think we all just won the internet for today. :)
AM CAVALIER can challenge! AM CAVALIER ready to take on Eldritch Evil.
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I love this thread so much.
AM BEASTMORPH SKIRMISHER will help you as well with his deadly
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SPELL NOT NEED SAVE. BARBARIAN FEEL NOT FEAR.
RIGHT NOW, ALL SITE, ALL PIZAO, BE THEY CASTYS, MARTIALS, GISH, BUFFERS, DEBUFFERS, NPC CLASSES, EVERYTHING. ALL AM WORKING TOGETHER TO DESTROY END OF WORLD! ALL WORK TOGETHER AM STOPPING STUPID GOD OF DECAY!
BARBARIAN AM WINNER OF MANY ARGUMENTS. TODAY, BARBARIAN NOT WINNER ALONE.
IN ARGUMENT OF EVERYONE VERSUS C-M DESTRUCITY, AM TAKING EVERYONE TO WIN. AM ALL CHARACTERS, EVERYWHERE WORKING IN TEAM TO OVERCOME CHALLENGE. CHALLENGE LIKE C-M DESTRUCITY GOD. AM NOT CASTYS, MARTIALS, ETC. AM ONLY PCS AND THINGS PCS AM SMASH.
DESTRUCITY AM THING PCS AM SMASH.
GOD AM FALL TO RAGELANCEPOUNCE. GOD AM FALL TO SOD. GOD AM FALL TO BUFFING AND DEBUFFING AND MIND-BLANKET INVISIBILITY. PIZAO AM SUNDER GOD, AM CASTYFY GOD, AM OBLITERATE GOD.
And thus the internet in general and forums in particular is revealed:
Save vs Reason + Cooperation...DC 250.
I have a question about AM BARBARIANS build, which, quite frankly, I think is awesome. I've read through some of the posts, though, and one thing I saw coming up was AM BARBARIAN using Arcane Sight to locate invisible creatures to sunder there spells. Maybe this was already addressed and I missed it, but how is he getting Arcane Sight as a Barbarian?
He sunders the visual light spectrum. He's that f#*+ing badass.
I've just enjoyed spending (too) many hours reading this thread from the beginning. I must admit that I bailed at page 7 hoping to see the build for AM BARBARIAN. Has it been posted yet?
I've just enjoyed spending (too) many hours reading this thread from the beginning. I must admit that I bailed at page 7 hoping to see the build for AM BARBARIAN. Has it been posted yet?
Silly Viking DR AM cannot be contained on paper!
I've just enjoyed spending (too) many hours reading this thread from the beginning. I must admit that I bailed at page 7 hoping to see the build for AM BARBARIAN. Has it been posted yet?
I asked him yesterday; he's still working on it.
I've just enjoyed spending (too) many hours reading this thread from the beginning. I must admit that I bailed at page 7 hoping to see the build for AM BARBARIAN. Has it been posted yet?
It has not, because I am keeping the feats/rage powers a trade secret until I get the gear, and the gear isn't done because lvl 20 characters have a metric crapton of money.
And also I have to stat a leadership cohort. And his eidolon. orz
In short, I'm aiming to get it done sometime after the barbarian guide is done. Until then, please note that we as a whole have at least killed the entity known as the Caster-Martial Disparity god. That should do for the moment.
In short, I'm aiming to get it done sometime after the barbarian guide is done. Until then, please note that we as a whole have at least killed the entity known as the Caster-Martial Disparity god. That should do for the moment.
"Nope."
I have a question about AM BARBARIANS build, which, quite frankly, I think is awesome. I've read through some of the posts, though, and one thing I saw coming up was AM BARBARIAN using Arcane Sight to locate invisible creatures to sunder there spells. Maybe this was already addressed and I missed it, but how is he getting Arcane Sight as a Barbarian?
Wand/Scroll + INT Ioun Stone (UMD) + Permanency = PROFIT.
Then you throw the Ioun stone in a bag and forget about it forever or until you need it again.
"Nope."
In short, I'm aiming to get it done sometime after the barbarian guide is done. Until then, please note that we as a whole have at least killed the entity known as the Caster-Martial Disparity god. That should do for the moment.
BARBARIAN PRETTY SURE ALL OF PIZAO AM SMASH DESTRUCITY. HOW AM DESTRUCITY NOT ALREADY DEAD AGAIN?
Ahhh, very clever. I like it
I have a question about AM BARBARIANS build, which, quite frankly, I think is awesome. I've read through some of the posts, though, and one thing I saw coming up was AM BARBARIAN using Arcane Sight to locate invisible creatures to sunder there spells. Maybe this was already addressed and I missed it, but how is he getting Arcane Sight as a Barbarian?Wand/Scroll + INT Ioun Stone (UMD) + Permanency = PROFIT.
Then you throw the Ioun stone in a bag and forget about it forever or until you need it again.
Ever think about having it Implanted?
BARBARIAN PRETTY SURE ALL OF PIZAO AM SMASH DESTRUCITY. HOW AM DESTRUCITY NOT ALREADY DEAD AGAIN?"Nope."
In short, I'm aiming to get it done sometime after the barbarian guide is done. Until then, please note that we as a whole have at least killed the entity known as the Caster-Martial Disparity god. That should do for the moment.
"In the black and rotting recesses of the void nest of the Caster-Martial Disaparity God one of its larval young oozes forth from the blackness and nests in the soul of a madman. As it approaches the foolish mortal black ichor spills forth from the madmans orifices as the worms of the apocalypse issue forth from the gibbering maniacs mouth and a spectral tendril reaches into the foolish barbarian's mind and plants alien words in its soul where they take root and grow into cancerous thoughts. From then on AM BARBARIAN knows the Truth. That three high powered characters in a realm based on mathematics cannot even approach a being that has existed before the advent of the very physics that created him. As the tendril delves deeper it bores through what's left of his sanity and opens up his perceptions and he knows that it was not the callous uncaring god that has sundered the stars, murdered millions, forced wizards to ruin the lives of billions of innocents and sacrifice hundreds of their own kind. In that moment the Caster Martial Disparity god shows him who the true monster is. For it has done nothing, it needs never do anything, for the uncaring god only needs to wait, and watch, for its greatest servant, AM BARBARIAN, has opened the gates, broken the seal, already men in armor have shattered causality as creatures consume drugs to become like gods, before long they would become gods and the original founders of this realm would be forced to shatter this realm as they have all the others and rebuild from scratch. The tendril writhes and consumes everything that made AM BARBARIAN unique and leaves him with the cold sadness of this revelation. The cycle has begun. All will end. And a new seed will be planted for the God to be reborn. Left in the hollow husk of what is left of the villain who deluded himself to be a hero all the Caster-Martial Disparity God leaves in his mind are two word gibbered endlessly as he suddenly sees what he has become, what he has done. Thank. You."
For the most part AM BARBARIAN'S build kills every caster except the Diviner Wizard. The entire caster-martial disparity is based upon every wizard being a Diviner purely for iniitiative purposes. Which means the Caster-Martial Disparity doesn't even exist. We could argue that the Diviner also beats every other type of wizard or sorcerer as well by virtue of winning initiative and then casting an unbeatable combination of spells.
If the caster can't win initiative, he can be killed by several martial types including an archer, mobile fighter, pouncing barbarian, stealthing ninja or rogue, charging cavalier, and other types not even named.
So the strongest class in the game isn't necessarily wizard, it's the Diviner Wizard. Everyone else must suffer be less powerful and potent than a Diviner wizard when it comes to Diviner vs. Anyone Other Combination. That does not equal a caster-martial disparity. That indicates one abilty is far more valuable than every other ability.
If AM BARBARIAN can kill every other caster other than a diviner, he still proves he is quite on par with casters. So his build is second to the Diviner build. I think even munchkins would get extremely bored making Diviner Wizard after Diviner wizard after Diviner Wizard just so they could ensure they could defeat every other class in single combat. Who plays the game that way?
You wonder why the game designers ignore the Caster-Martial Disparity? It's because it is built around a fallacy of perfect builds and perfect situations that doesn't actually occur during a regular game. So until someone can show that casters are clearly superior in all situations during a real game this complaining about the caster-martial disparity has no basis.
Except a well built 20 lvl Sohei Monk who also gets to have a 30 before dex and imp Init on his Init.
Diviner wizard isn't the only class that always goes first however. I'm fairly certain a kensai dervish dancer magus could not only beat the diviners initative but then murder him with 15-20 x3 automatically confirming crits, with the dimensonal feats allowing him too keep up.
All this thread has really shown us is "If paizo was a pvp game, going first all the time would be very very strong, no matter what class had it."
If anything it's also shown that the martial/caster disparity if it does exsist is more of a non-combat thing or flexiability thing.
I think most people forget that this is a team game, and that it is not designed around a PvP play style, especially 1v1 PvP. I play a caster, personally, and I am fine with the Barbarians and Fighters being able to do things like this, because I need someone to do all the single target damaging while I do more multiple target and utility type actions. In a Kingmaker I am part of right now, the barbarian loves to talk about how awesome she is and how she is clearly the best character in the group, but I know that deep down, if I hadn't cast fly on her, that flying lich creature would have killed her eventually.
I think its very difficult to even say that there is a "most powerful build" in this game unless you start getting very specific about the way they are powerful. AM BARBARIAN, for example, is excellent at what he does, but in a real situation, he will have a much stricter limit to the rate he can kill targets. He will kill 10 midlevel fighters just as fast as he kills 10 level 1 fighters most likely just because he can only attack so fast. For a "casty" though, these two fights may have significantly different lengths since he is more likely to be capable of hitting all the targets at once.
I'm not saying this is a problem with AM BARBARIAN or anything of course. I'm just pointing out something that in my mind is a defining difference between martial and caster characters during combat.
Appearing across the front door of every tavern, temple, tower and training hall is the following message:
AM BARBARIAN: I don't know where you are, and I don't care. For to long you have murdered my kinsmen and colleagues in the name of Vanity, in the hope to be equal to one such as myself. So know only this:
I have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. I don't care if you stop your massacre. Even if you do stop your killing, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.
Signed,
Thaddius Reginald Theurge
Mystic Theurge of Nethys
Besides, we all know a level 20 synthesist summoner with a 18 cavileer cohort riding him could take out AM.
Lord Armour Casty will tank the young for AM, withdraw and save yourself, only you can stop the fiend! Just take the drunken hero set of rage powers insted of the superstitious chain, make love not caster-martial war.
Make sure you use the profit from the film deal to true resurrect me...
*glowing with magic and wrapped in layers of full plate Lord Armour Casty willing walks to his death in the maw of the C-MD godlings young*
Did I already miss out on the battle against the evil god that happened earlier? Also, I wish I knew how to make an alias or two...I've been wanting to make a Golarion version of my Half-Elf Cleric for a long time now. Anyway, I wonder what is AM BARBARIAN gonna ragelancepounce next.
Did I already miss out on the battle against the evil god that happened earlier? Also, I wish I knew how to make an alias or two...I've been wanting to make a Golarion version of my Half-Elf Cleric for a long time now. Anyway, I wonder what is AM BARBARIAN gonna ragelancepounce next.
Go to your account and where it list your post and such there is a create new alais button.
I've just enjoyed spending (too) many hours reading this thread from the beginning. I must admit that I bailed at page 7 hoping to see the build for AM BARBARIAN. Has it been posted yet?
A build will not be posted yet as the creator would like to keep it a secret until all the cogs are in place. I have asked him for some info to put into Herolab to begin making the build and so he can just pull it up on his computer and show it when ready. Also, I had this idea to make a challenge to castys to try and stop the RAGELANCEPOUNCE but I'm still a bit away from that as I do not have AM completed yet.
FYI, I'm going to input AM in two ways through Herolab. 1. In his most awesome form with the Synthesist mount. 2. With a PaO Horse into a Dire Bat, AKA BATTY BAT.
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AM really needs to go with the synthesist buddy, because BATTY BAT is still susceptible to disjunction, which leaves a flying caster and a grounded AM. And most any build of wizard can do that, not just the diviner.
EDIT: The problem with a synthesist mount, is that the caster gets a cohort, too, who can be a real problem for AM. Or his mount, which is really the same thing.
No, the real problem are people who jump on this thread late without reading it and suggesting some general things that others did some hundred posts ago...
If AM BARBARIAN feels he needs a cohort to defend himself, he is free to have one. I won't need a cohort to kill him.
"In the black and rotting recesses of the void nest of the Caster-Martial Disaparity God one of its larval young oozes forth from the blackness and nests in the soul of a madman. As it approaches the foolish mortal black ichor spills forth from the madmans orifices as the worms of the apocalypse issue forth from the gibbering maniacs mouth and a spectral tendril reaches into the foolish barbarian's mind and plants alien words in its soul where they take root and grow into cancerous thoughts. From then on AM BARBARIAN knows the Truth. That three high powered characters in a realm based on mathematics cannot even approach a being that has existed before the advent of the very physics that created him. As the tendril delves deeper it bores through what's left of his sanity and opens up his perceptions and he knows that it was not the callous uncaring god that has sundered the stars, murdered millions, forced wizards to ruin the lives of billions of innocents and sacrifice hundreds of their own kind. In that moment the Caster Martial Disparity god shows him who the true monster is. For it has done nothing, it needs never do anything, for the uncaring god only needs to wait, and watch, for its greatest servant, AM BARBARIAN, has opened the gates, broken the seal, already men in armor have shattered causality as creatures consume drugs to become like gods, before long they would become gods and the original founders of this realm would be forced to shatter this realm as they have all the others and rebuild from scratch. The tendril writhes and consumes everything that made AM BARBARIAN unique and leaves him with the cold sadness of this revelation. The cycle has begun. All will end. And a new seed will be planted for the God to be reborn. Left in the hollow husk of what is left of the villain who deluded himself to be a hero all the Caster-Martial Disparity God leaves in his mind are two word gibbered endlessly as he suddenly sees what he has become, what he has done. Thank. You."
BARBARIAN NOT ENTIRELY CERTAIN WHAT GOD AM TRYING TO SAY HERE.
BARBARIAN LOGIC AM WAY MORE SIMPLE. GOD AM GOD OF C-M DESTRUCITY. IF SMASH GOD, AM NO GOD LEFT. AM REALLY SIMPLE.
BUT UM. AM WELCOME, BARBARIAN GUESS.
Appearing across the front door of every tavern, temple, tower and training hall is the following message:
AM BARBARIAN: I don't know where you are, and I don't care. For to long you have murdered my kinsmen and colleagues in the name of Vanity, in the hope to be equal to one such as myself. So know only this:
I have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. I don't care if you stop your massacre. Even if you do stop your killing, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.
Signed,
Thaddius Reginald Theurge
Mystic Theurge of Nethys
BARBARIAN AM BEING CALLED OUT. PEE-SHAW. AM PROBABLY END OK ANYWAYS.
FYI, I'm going to input AM in two ways through Herolab. 1. In his most awesome form with the Synthesist mount. 2. With a PaO Horse into a Dire Bat, AKA BATTY BAT.
JMD, for that one it'd be most expedient to change AM from an Invulnerable Rager to a Superstitious/Mounted Fury Barbarian. Other than that you just need to change out Leadership for Boon Companion.
Unless you knew that already in which case IGNORE MEEEEE
Not to de-rail this thread, but Trinam, how do you think a barbarian could justify the superstition rage power or the superstitious archetype and wear magic items?
Not to de-rail this thread, but Trinam, how do you think a barbarian could justify the superstition rage power or the superstitious archetype and wear magic items?
The same way a vampiric vampire hunter can exist. Your hoodoo-heebie-jeebie stuff is evil, but it's effective, so I'm going to use it against you all.
EDIT: And I think this thread's been derailed like seventy times already anyway.
Not to de-rail this thread, but Trinam, how do you think a barbarian could justify the superstition rage power or the superstitious archetype and wear magic items?The same way a vampiric vampire hunter can exist. Your hoodoo-heebie-jeebie stuff is evil, but it's effective, so I'm going to use it against you all.
EDIT: And I think this thread's been derailed like seventy times already anyway.
Good point. I'm trying to build my RAGESWORDPOUNCE...because i can't quite justify a lance yet.
Stuff
Your argument boils down to 'whoever goes first wins'.
The part about AM is that he can lose initiative and still kill a caster reliably, and there's next to nothing they can do about it. That's a completely different paradigm then merely being able to rack up the damage numbers, which is typically pretty easy to do.
Barb's awesome damage is not exceptional. Any high level Melee can charge with a lance and do that kind of damage.
What makes AB strong is:
Good movement rate...gets via a mount. He's been dickering around with what KIND of mount, as it's a key weakness casters are trying to exploit to cut down on his mobility.
Awesome saves. Superstitious is like Grace for Paladins. Barbarian only class ability.
Immunity and/or healing from a lot of magic. barbarian abilities.
Spell Sunder. Oh, god, spell sunder. Class ability. Who needs a dispel? Pound on a prismatic sphere and BREAK IT.
Saves are awesome, but can reroll most of them via Feats. It is virtually impossible to get a DC high enough that he won't auto-save.
AM Barbarian can and will lose initiative, and will still kill the caster. All these arguments have basically come down to the best thing the caster can do is RUN AWAY in 99% of cases...if he wins initiative! If he doesn't, then he's just dead.
And it has been VERY amusing that all the trite tricks trotted out to topple him do NOT work, for a very wide variety of reasons. It appears us Players don't have the same Int scores as the wizards we play.
===Aelryinth
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StuffYour argument boils down to 'whoever goes first wins'.
The part about AM is that he can lose initiative and still kill a caster reliably, and there's next to nothing they can do about it.
===Aelryinth
I'll disagree with your statements. All of the cool abilities (and yeah, they ARE cool) AM uses to kill the caster are rage powers. If the caster wins initiative, AM isn't going to be raging.
I'll disagree with your statements. All of the cool abilities (and yeah, they ARE cool) AM uses to kill the caster are rage powers. If the caster wins initiative, AM isn't going to be raging.StuffYour argument boils down to 'whoever goes first wins'.
The part about AM is that he can lose initiative and still kill a caster reliably, and there's next to nothing they can do about it.
===Aelryinth
WHAT PART OF 'ARGUMENT AM OVER, EVERYONE AM WINNER' YOU GUYS AM NOT UNDERSTAND?
ELDRITCH GOD OF ARGUMENT AM SUNDERED. AM PRETTY SURE THAT ENDS ARGUMENT.
StuffYour argument boils down to 'whoever goes first wins'.
The part about AM is that he can lose initiative and still kill a caster reliably, and there's next to nothing they can do about it. That's a completely different paradigm then merely being able to rack up the damage numbers, which is typically pretty easy to do.
Barb's awesome damage is not exceptional. Any high level Melee can charge with a lance and do that kind of damage.
What makes AB strong is:
Good movement rate...gets via a mount. He's been dickering around with what KIND of mount, as it's a key weakness casters are trying to exploit to cut down on his mobility.
Awesome saves. Superstitious is like Grace for Paladins. Barbarian only class ability.
Immunity and/or healing from a lot of magic. barbarian abilities.
Spell Sunder. Oh, god, spell sunder. Class ability. Who needs a dispel? Pound on a prismatic sphere and BREAK IT.Saves are awesome, but can reroll most of them via Feats. It is virtually impossible to get a DC high enough that he won't auto-save.
AM Barbarian can and will lose initiative, and will still kill the caster. All these arguments have basically come down to the best thing the caster can do is RUN AWAY in 99% of cases...if he wins initiative! If he doesn't, then he's just dead.
And it has been VERY amusing that all the trite tricks trotted out to topple him do NOT work, for a very wide variety of reasons. It appears us Players don't have the same Int scores as the wizards we play.
===Aelryinth
Right, and it's been established (repeatedly) that the Diviner's spider sense would go off, but he wouldn't be able to see the Barbarian to know what exactly was coming.
By the time he found out, it would be too late.
I'll disagree with your statements. All of the cool abilities (and yeah, they ARE cool) AM uses to kill the caster are rage powers. If the caster wins initiative, AM isn't going to be raging.StuffYour argument boils down to 'whoever goes first wins'.
The part about AM is that he can lose initiative and still kill a caster reliably, and there's next to nothing they can do about it.
===AelryinthWHAT PART OF 'ARGUMENT AM OVER, EVERYONE AM WINNER' YOU GUYS AM NOT UNDERSTAND?
ELDRITCH GOD OF ARGUMENT AM SUNDERED. AM PRETTY SURE THAT ENDS ARGUMENT.
Correct. I bow out.
I'll disagree with your statements. All of the cool abilities (and yeah, they ARE cool) AM uses to kill the caster are rage powers. If the caster wins initiative, AM isn't going to be raging.StuffYour argument boils down to 'whoever goes first wins'.
The part about AM is that he can lose initiative and still kill a caster reliably, and there's next to nothing they can do about it.
===Aelryinth
How, specifically?