Over the development of Golarion, there's been a lot of contradictory statements about the sizes of the continents.
It used to be that Casmaron was consistently referred to as a "supercontinent," the largest around by a long shot -- and this was explicitly not counting Avistan, Tian Xia, or the Crown of the World as being part of a single landmass, it was just Casmaron. More recently, Tian Xia and Arcadia have both gotten mentions as "possibly" the biggest.
Is this still up in the air? (And does Golarion have more land area than Earth?)
Over the development of Golarion, there's been a lot of contradictory statements about the sizes of the continents.
It used to be that Casmaron was consistently referred to as a "supercontinent," the largest around by a long shot -- and this was explicitly not counting Avistan, Tian Xia, or the Crown of the World as being part of a single landmass, it was just Casmaron. More recently, Tian Xia and Arcadia have both gotten mentions as "possibly" the biggest.
Is this still up in the air? (And does Golarion have more land area than Earth?)
I remember reading that Casmaron was the largest continent as well... but I suppose Acadia does give some wiggle room if they want to revise that. Unless I missed something, Acadia has yet to be fully explored or charted. So until someone actually pulls off a voyage of exploration and circumnavigates Acadia... (actually, an Age of Discovery type expedition to explore Acadia sounds like a fun AP idea)
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Over the development of Golarion, there's been a lot of contradictory statements about the sizes of the continents.
It used to be that Casmaron was consistently referred to as a "supercontinent," the largest around by a long shot -- and this was explicitly not counting Avistan, Tian Xia, or the Crown of the World as being part of a single landmass, it was just Casmaron. More recently, Tian Xia and Arcadia have both gotten mentions as "possibly" the biggest.
Is this still up in the air? (And does Golarion have more land area than Earth?)
The continents are, from largest to smallest...
1 Casmaron
2 Tian Xia
3 Arcadia
4 Garund
5 Crown of the World
6 Azlant (This was once closer to Garund in size... but you know...)
7 Avistan
8 Sarusan
As for land mass... I suspect Golarion has slightly more land mass than Earth, but not enough to fundamentally change much on a planetary scale. The big thing that's different about Golarion from Earth on a planet scale is the fact that the land is very strongly skewed toward the northern hemisphere, which makes the Great Southern Ocean pretty rough and unexplored.
NOTE: The sizes of the continents on the rough map of Golarion in the Inner Sea World Guide are intentionally not to scale and distorted... particularly in the cases of the Crown of the World, Arcadia, and (weirdly) Casmaron.
The continents are, from largest to smallest...
1 Casmaron
2 Tian Xia
3 Arcadia
4 Garund
5 Crown of the World
6 Azlant (This was once closer to Garund in size... but you know...)
7 Avistan
8 Sarusan
I see, thanks...
Is Arcadia connected to the Crown at all? I'm guessing not or there'd have been mention of overland trade with it as well as Tian Xia.
As for land mass... I suspect Golarion has slightly more land mass than Earth, but not enough to fundamentally change much on a planetary scale. The big thing that's different about Golarion from Earth on a planet scale is the fact that the land is very strongly skewed toward the northern hemisphere, which makes the Great Southern Ocean pretty rough and unexplored.
That's not a big difference at all -- something like two-thirds of Earth's land is in the northern hemisphere, even with Antarctica.
(I'd actually been thinking that it would have to be skewed the other way a bit, as with Tian Xia and Arcadia occupying space in the nothern hemisphere, it seemed to me that Casmaron could only have room to be biggest by having a much larger presence in the southern hemisphere than Asia does.)
NOTE: The sizes of the continents on the rough map of Golarion in the Inner Sea World Guide are intentionally not to scale and distorted... particularly in the cases of the Crown of the World, Arcadia, and (weirdly) Casmaron.
...so Casmaron is extra-specially inaccurate on the Great Inaccurate Map, eh? That could explain my weird impressions.
...and now I really want to see that beachball. :)
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Is Arcadia connected to the Crown at all? I'm guessing not or there'd have been mention of overland trade with it as well as Tian Xia.
Nope; it's not connected. I supposed on some cold winters it MIGHT be connected by ice... but normally you can sail around the north end of Arcadia. There's not a lot of towns up there to stop and resupply at though...
So Golarion has a northwest passage that's open year-round, most years?
Where exactly would there be room for another continent? Northern hemisphere? Southern? Past Arcadia?
So Golarion has a northwest passage that's open year-round, most years?It does, but pretty much no one uses it. Yet. Since sailing from Avistan west to Minkai takes a LOT longer than just riding a horse over the top of the world on the Path of Aganhei.
What about east from Minkai to Avistan?
*not trying to be difficult, there could be currents and stuff*
The existence of Goka suggests a reasonable trade route (and useful winds/currents) running via the Obari Ocean > Vudra > Goka as well. This would be long, but its existence implies that trade goods from the eastern part of Tian Xia are easier to obtain that way - at least to/from Casmaron. Plus there's a Tian junk in the picture of Absalom in the Inner Sea Guide, and the Lantern Lodge is based there. So the water route around Vudra, I'd speculate, is at least as important to Absalom and points east and southeast of it.
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So Golarion has a northwest passage that's open year-round, most years?It does, but pretty much no one uses it. Yet. Since sailing from Avistan west to Minkai takes a LOT longer than just riding a horse over the top of the world on the Path of Aganhei.What about east from Minkai to Avistan?
*not trying to be difficult, there could be currents and stuff*
East from Avistan to Minkai is about the same distance... PLUS you sail through the Valashmian Sea between Tian Xia and Sarusan, which is more or less the MOST DANGEROUS stretch of water on the planet. If you're sailing east to Tian Xia from Avistan, the better bet is to sail up to the west coast of Tian Xia and to the trade city of Goka, then travel overland from Goka up to Minkai, which is itself a journey about equal to the journey over the Crown of the World.
Sea Trade between Avistan and Minkai is just not as efficient as the land route. If you're going to Goka, though, the sea route is better.
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So... using my top secret globe of Golarion, here are some distances to mull over between, say, central Avistan and the closest point of Minkai.
Crown of the World Land Route (Linnorm Kingdoms to Minkai): About 4,000 miles (across a well-established trade route)
Western Sea Route (Linnorm Kingdoms to Minkai): Minimum of 8,000 miles (through uncharted seas)
Eastern Sea Route (Absalom to Goka): Minimum of about 11,000 miles (much more if you stick to the coastlines, of course)
Eastern Sea Route (Absalom to Minkai): Minimum of about 16,000 miles (much MUCH more if you stick to the coastlines)
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So... using my top secret globe of Golarion, here are some distances to mull over between, say, central Avistan and the closest point of Minkai.
Crown of the World Land Route (Linnorm Kingdoms to Minkai): About 4,000 miles (across a well-established trade route)
Western Sea Route (Linnorm Kingdoms to Minkai): Minimum of 8,000 miles (through uncharted seas)
Eastern Sea Route (Absalom to Goka): Minimum of about 11,000 miles (much more if you stick to the coastlines, of course)
Eastern Sea Route (Absalom to Minkai): Minimum of about 16,000 miles (much MUCH more if you stick to the coastlines)
11,000 miles, btw, is the distance from New York to San Francisco via the straits of Magellan, or from Panama to the Philippines. Thus it's not beyond the reach of Golarion's technology and magic, but still dangerous at times... I note, however, that without the enticement of gold or spices, a lot less people would have bothered sailing that far.
11,000/48 miles per day = 229 days (for a warship sized vessel, 60 mpd, or 183 days.
16,000/48 miles per day = 333 days or 16,000/60 = 266 days.
4,000 miles/16 miles per day (wagon speed) = 250 days.
Thus getting to Tian Xia in general is faster in a sailing ship going east, but getting to Minkai is faster over the Crown of the World in a wagon. The durations are close enough that the type of goods and time of year might be important. Keep in mind a sailing ship can hold more than a wagon train, generally speaking.
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11,000 miles, btw, is the distance from New York to San Francisco via the straits of Magellan, or from Panama to the Philippines. Thus it's not beyond the reach of Golarion's technology and magic, but still dangerous at times... I note, however, that without the enticement of gold or spices, a lot less people would have bothered sailing that far.
11,000/48 miles per day = 229 days (for a warship sized vessel, 60 mpd, or 183 days.
16,000/48 miles per day = 333 days or 16,000/60 = 266 days.4,000 miles/16 miles per day (wagon speed) = 250 days.
Thus getting to Tian Xia in general is faster in a sailing ship going east, but getting to Minkai is faster over the Crown of the World in a wagon. The durations are close enough that the type of goods and time of year might be important. Keep in mind a sailing ship can hold more than a wagon train, generally speaking.
Faster... but much less safe.
Put in game terms, sticking to the road of the Path of Aganhei over the Crown of the World is a route that's mostly CR 6 (up to CR 7 or 8 in the off season).
Sailing to Minkai via the east route (the 266 day route) puts you into the grasp of CR 15+ encounters. I'm talking things like multiple krakens.
If some enterprising sailor were to open up and chart the western route around the northern edge of Arcadia... that'd be the fastest route of all. Assuming the sea ice isn't blocking the way. And assuming that sailor's GM didn't want to run "The Hungry Storm."
I smell a maritime AP with profession: sailor checks.
Hm. If the "Northwest Passage" is usually clear of ice... sounds like the north coast of Arcadia must be quite a bit further south than the north coast of Canada.
Hm. If the "Northwest Passage" is usually clear of ice... sounds like the north coast of Arcadia must be quite a bit further south than the north coast of Canada.
Or have some warm currents going through it.
Could Tien xia have anyone like the eunuch admiral Zheng He, and the Treasure fleets with their vast ships?
That would be more likely back when Lung Wa was unified, before the death of Aroden, I'd think. But Zheng He's monster junks could be a valid way to traverse the high CR oceans a little more safely.
Yeah i guess so, I can only imagine, a huge Kracken would find one of those huge ships to be like an "all you can eat buffet".
Well, this is the ship scale of the fleet. They are well over Colossal in size (Kraken are Gargantuan). Based on the stats for the Sailing Ship in Ultimate Combat, they probably have around 4500 hp and hardness 5+.
But the sheer cost of that fleet and the individual ships means that while it could probably go past Valashmai and survive the monsters there, the whole expedition would be prohibitively expensive.
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Well, this is the ship scale of the fleet. They are well over Colossal in size (Kraken are Gargantuan). Based on the stats for the Sailing Ship in Ultimate Combat, they probably have around 4500 hp and hardness 5+.
the Kracken doesn't need to break the ship though, just grab those on it... 10-12 sailors a day mean it's prolly have 75 days worth of food before having to crack it open for anyone staying belowdecks
the Kracken doesn't need to break the ship though, just grab those on it... 10-12 sailors a day mean it's prolly have 75 days worth of food before having to crack it open for anyone staying belowdecks
Well, this is the ship scale of the fleet. They are well over Colossal in size (Kraken are Gargantuan). Based on the stats for the Sailing Ship in Ultimate Combat, they probably have around 4500 hp and hardness 5+.
True, though with a 60' reach, all anyone would have to do to avoid its tentacles would be to move toward the middle of the deck or into the castles. It would have to climb on board to attack. Now, knowing the intelligence of octopi, that is possible. But it'll be slow out of the water, making using the deck weapons possible. With hundreds of sailors, the ship could lose a few in the first confused minutes of combat.
This sounds more to me like a great adventure concept, actually. Thanks for the idea!
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I read a book called "when china ruled the seas". Now of course i cant find it on my book shelf, and i don't remember who the author is.
But that illistraition you linked to me reminds me of something i think i saw in that book.
I find the treasure fleets voyages fascinating. I also find it just as interesting that the next emperor decided it was a bad idea and scrapped the whole idea.
Anyways you are most likely right, it would take the resorurces of the now collapsed empire to put together a project like the treasure fleets.
That is a good idea for an adventure, the PCs are trapped on a ship, that a Kracken is using as a buffet table.