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Hmmm...
Shield Master (Combat)
Your mastery of the shield allows you to fight with it without hindrance.Prerequisites: Improved Shield Bash, Shield Proficiency, Shield Slam, Two-Weapon Fighting, base attack bonus +11.
Benefit: You do not suffer any penalties on attack rolls made with a shield while you are wielding another weapon. Add your shield's enhancement bonus to attacks and damage rolls made with the shield as if it was a weapon enhancement bonus.
... stop me if I'm wrong, but that seems to completely mitigate the penalties for a shield bash for any level of TWF. That alone would seem to make GTWF worth it - by that point, assuming a light shield as the off-hand weapon, you're basically getting an extra three shield bash attacks at no penalty whatsoever every time you make a full attack. That must make sword-n-board the best choice for a TWF Ranger, yes?
Good point about the quickdraw shield plus the Quick Draw Feat too. That would seem to mean light shield plus falcata is the ultimate winning choice for the TWF Ranger. Two-handing a falcata beats everything else DPR-wise anyhow, and with all the quickdraw goodness, you can actually follow the guide and chop and change between sword-n-board and two-handing to your heart's content! Good times... :)
It is pretty awesome, but more feat intensive.
I'll work out the ideal feat tree and post it in the guide. It comes online earlier (via feat , not magic item) and as you say results in a higher offhand attack bonus (no TWF penalty and extra+1from bashing enchant).
Plus more AC +6, less Crits. Falcata use is great (or Katana).
Human and Half-elf are best races in this case.
I originally wasn't going to mention Sword/Shield TWF for thematic reasons but given the advantages it offers, will add it.
Prof Pots- Your tree is pretty much ideal for.Sword/Shield TWF
1. Improved Shield Bash H- Quickdraw
2. Two Weapon Fighting (Combat Style bonus Feat)
3. Power Attack
4. N/A
5. Boon Companion
6. Improved Two Weapon Fighting (Combat Style bonus Feat)
7. Shield Slam
8. N/A
9. Shield Focus (or something else...)
10. Two Weapon Rend (Combat Style bonus Feat)
11. Shield Master
12. N/A
13. Teamwork Feat (you and your animal companion both get a Feat at this level, so you can co-ordinate on your Feat choice. Coordinated Charge is best for a 'Pounce' like ability, allowing you to close when it's your companions turn, then full attack
14. GTWF (Combat Style)
15. Dazing Assault
This build gains AC and doesn't need the magic glove.
Losses a bit of stickness (no Stepup/following step)
Less AOO'S (No Combat reflexes, no Outflank till late)
Better off hand to hit, less to hit and damage vs big stuff (no big game hunter- mitigated by the basing shields higher base damage)
"Add your shield's enhancement bonus to attacks and damage rolls made with the shield as if it was a weapon enhancement bonus."
How does that work with a spiked shield where the spike can be enchanted separately, by the way? Can I have a +3 light shield with a +1 spike of frost and get both the +3 bonus to attack/damage and the frost damage?
I've been looking on the TWF ranger, and it seems to me that Hammer the Gap would be a very nice feat for a TWFer.
I thought so too. But somebody crunched the numbers and worked out it was a trap feat.
Consider, Big Game Hunter adds +1 to hit and +2 to damage to anything Large or Bigger (re: just about everything over CR9 in the Bestiary)
Now If you get 4 hits it adds +8 damage
or 5 hits and it adds +10
Now you only need to hit x number of times for a fixed benefit of +2 per hit.
Now, Hammer the gap only kicks in on the 2nd strike. adding +1 damage.
3rd adds +2
4th adds +3 (total +5 now)
5th adds +4 (total +9 now)
6th adds +5 (total +14 now)
Now that looks ok, but what are the chances of landing 6 hits IN A ROW.
BGH will give +10 bonus damage for 5 hits, doesn't matter where the misses are.
Hammer the gap HAS to be successive. Miss once and it resets.
BGH is Better.
I remeber that. Not sure if I'll add it. The 3.5 section was an afterthought since fewer groups allow 3.5
Updated with points added for Sword/Board fighting and edit on Double weapons.
Any other errors or comments let me know
Can't believe I missed the cheap, spring loaded wrist sheath.
Similar to the glove of storing trick but works from level 1.
Early- fight with Scimitar/Dagger. Carry dagger in spring loaded wrist sheath in your off hand.
Combat Starts. Close with a 2handed chop with your Scimitar. Next round, swift action, draw dagger from your spring loaded sheath and TWF Full Attack.
I've updated the Guide to include this.
1- Wpn Fcs: Urgosh
2- Bonus TWF
3- Power Attack
5- Combat Reflexes
(You could dump Wpn.Fcs and.use it for Combat Ref. This.frees up 5 for Bonded Companion.)
Honestly, if you pick good FE's, you'll hit alot just from Max attack bonus and STR.
You mention that in PF there are 2 ways to get pounce and you would discuss them later. Did you mean years later? ;)
Sorry dude, I'll re-read and check I wrote it.
I was referring to 'pseudo pounce'. See besides Barbarians no class gets pounce.
But there are SOME ways to get a similar ability.
Mobile fighters get rapidstrike.
Ranger can.go either Mounted Skirmisher which I don't reccomend.
My preffered method is to take the co-ordinated charge teamwork feat. When your pet (who only gets one or two attacks anyway) charges, you get a free immediate action charge and can full attack next round.
Dot.
Sorry for useless post, but I really like the concept and plan to return to this soon.
Ps any thoughts on going with a bit of alchemist for extra arms and maybe multi-weapon fighting? can that even work?
Looks like your guide was added to the Guide to the Guides.
Sweet.
Adding arms could work but the guide is for straight rangers.
I'll be making some edits to account for Ultimate Equipment. Throwers are viable now.
Just saw snow white and the huntsman.
Wonder if the director read my guide.
A buff and gruff low Cha dude who freely switches between two handed and two weapon fighting? Not overly agile STR based ranger?
Hell, all he needed was a wolf companion to complete the picture.
(The movie kicked ass and Hemsworth was brilliant)
Have you considered an update for Ultimate Races?
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Orc looks like a nice option. Favoured class bonus +1hp for Wolf.
20 point buy
STR [17] 22
DEX [03] 13
CON [05] 14
INT [-4] 05
WIS [03] 11
CHA [-4] 05
Pump Wis at level 4, plus buy a Headband of Wisdom +2 for minimum spell coverage.
Pump Dex at level 8 for more AoO.
Choose Orc Double Axe as weapon [shame about the 20 only crit mod].
You could go with two longsword and eat the -4's but that would make power attacking dodgy, example at level 8 you'd have...
Bab 8/3
Str +7 [probably 8]
Magic +1 [probably +2]
Base +16/+11
2WF +12/+12/+7/+7
PA +9/+9/+4/+4 assuming your companion hasn't given you +2 flanking or +4 from tripping your target. I appreciate this is the point of the build but there will be many encounters where the flanking isn't possible and the foe isn't trip-able or there just isn't the room to position yourselves. It's probably safer to go with the Double Axe for ease [and Weapon Focus/Improved Crit - if you can find room].
I'm looking at this progression..
1st: Power Attack
2nd: Two Weapon Fighting [style feat]
3rd: Tandem Trip
4th: Wis boost
5th: Boon Companion
6th: Improved Two Weapon Fighting [style feat]
7th: Combat Reflexes (or Weapon Focus)
8th: Dex boost
9th: Big Game Hunter (or Improved Critical)
10th: Two Weapon Rend [style feat]
11th: Dazing Assault
12th: Int boost {12 bonus skill ranks}
For the Wolf Feats...
1st: Light Armour Prof
2nd: Ability Focus Trip
5th: Tandem Trip
8th: ???
Side Note: Co-ordinated Charge requires 2 previous Teamwork Feats to qualify.
[EDIT] Removed comment/suggestion regarding Imp. Trip for the AC D'oh!
Oreads look nice too, with boosts to both Strength and Wisdom.
Sorry dude, I'll re-read and check I wrote it.
I was referring to 'pseudo pounce'. See besides Barbarians no class gets pounce.
But there are SOME ways to get a similar ability.
Mobile fighters get rapidstrike.Ranger can.go either Mounted Skirmisher which I don't reccomend.
My preffered method is to take the co-ordinated charge teamwork feat. When your pet (who only gets one or two attacks anyway) charges, you get a free immediate action charge and can full attack next round.
Not actually true beastmorph alchemist can add it to their mutagen form at level 10 and then take levels in master chymist for a truely scary melee monster.
On a side note (well technically the main note.) why do you rate dwarves down for the speed loss when if you are in medium armor with a low dex you are unlikely to get mithril so everyone else has a speed of 20 too? Also they do get free proficiency with a double weapon that not only can be two handed for extra damage but can also be braced against a charge.
I hadn't read the guide before building my half-orc ranger for PFS, but mostly agree with it.
I went with Half Orc and swapped out Orc Ferocity with Toothy. Three attacks per round at 2nd level, using an Orc Double Axe. He's also got a wand of Lead Blades on a weapon cord.
Getting your animal companion an Amulet of Menacing Fists for 4K GP is a great investment in your flanking buddy. Don't forget to have your animal companion move, then Ready an action for when you're flanking. The primary benefit of having Barkskin is so that you can use the amulet slot for something other than an Amulet of Natural Armor.
For my character, I bought an Amulet of Vicious Fists for me. Now my bite does 1d4+2+2d6 damage, and I take 1d6 damage. I can always choose not to bite and swing the double axe for 1d12+5 damage twice per turn.
In PFS, at least, they've made it so that double weapons count as two weapons for determining Wealth By Level rather than as a single weapon, which means you're no longer a level or two behind on gear-pickups.
A 1 level dip into bog standard fighter and the Sash of the War Champion gives you full movement in Mithral Full Plate - 40' per round, a decent AC, and an animal companion who gives you a +4 to hit when you're both flanking? What's not to like?
Orc looks like a nice option. Favoured class bonus +1hp for Wolf.20 point buy
STR [17] 22
DEX [03] 13
CON [05] 14
INT [-4] 05
WIS [03] 11
CHA [-4] 05Pump Wis at level 4, plus buy a Headband of Wisdom +2 for minimum spell coverage.
Pump Dex at level 8 for more AoO.
No. Just no. Nonono.
No. Just no. Nonono.
Orc looks like a nice option. Favoured class bonus +1hp for Wolf.20 point buy
STR [17] 22
DEX [03] 13
CON [05] 14
INT [-4] 05
WIS [03] 11
CHA [-4] 05Pump Wis at level 4, plus buy a Headband of Wisdom +2 for minimum spell coverage.
Pump Dex at level 8 for more AoO.
You forgot to add IMO...
Not liking the build is fine, reasonless dislike is not helpful to anyone, especially the OP.
A level stat increase worth 1 (or 2) points is just a terrible idea. If you start with 12 (14) wis but one point less in strength and put your level 4 stat in str you will have the same stats but points left.
Not before you get there you wont. I build to be playable at all levels, not at a snapshot.
[Edit]Imo!
Its an Orc, one of the very few things it brings to the table is a starting Str of 22.
[Edit]Imo!
One str less and the build isnt playable anymore?
Any min/max character build forsakes sensible stat point allocation for min/max. We both know you know that.
Glad to see this resource still being used.
;)
On a side note (well technically the main note.) why do you rate dwarves down for the speed loss when if you are in medium armor with a low dex you are unlikely to get mithril so everyone else has a speed of 20 too? Also they do get free proficiency with a double weapon that not only can be two handed for extra damage but can also be braced against a charge.
Because as I play you ARE likely to get mithral as soon as you can afford it.
Any race except dwarves should go for Mithral Agile Breastple for +6 AC at full speed.The advantage of a Dwarf is the ability to wear Agile Mithral Breastplate WITH an armored kilt for +7 AC and move at full dwarf speed. Add to that the jarring property for a flat 1500gp and you got a (slighty) slower tank ranger where near misses by power attacking enemies sicken them.
Dwarfs make awesome Tank rangerTWF but it relies on a very specific armor from a non core source (They can be crazy good combing this with Scimtiar/Shield and going shield style)- it's a corner case. I will update it.
Never saw this question.
Answer is simple.
Point Buy and Flavor.
I would only play a TWF’er FIGHTER class with a minimum 20 point buy.
This is because that buy can net a
Str16
Dex16
Con14
Int 12
Wis 10
Cha 8 As a human with 5 skills per level if you use your favored bonus.
I really like not completely sucking out of combat so skills are important for me and these are the min Str/Dex numbers I like to rock awesome DPR all the time as a fighter, enough dex to negate the need for heavy armor at high levels and not have the suckiest will save (since I almost always take Latent Psion and Iron Will)
If the point buy is less than 20 I always go ranger!
Since I can have a lower dex and lower Int and still get just as many Skills and TWF feats.
I have to work a little harder by picking good FE's and using wands of Instant Enemy later.
My general ranking
Human, Undead, Evil Outsiders covers the most common Bad guys in general campaigns.
I usually build evil Outsider to +8FE and use the wand to instant enemy for that.
Hello, just read the guide and have few questions concerning the build.
Doesn't all your trips provoke an AoO? If that's the case and you have low AC it's kind of suicidal then? Or does the Tandem trip remove the AoO?
Also doesn't Outflank only work if your ally has outflank as well, since the wolf gets it at lvl 16, isn't the rangers outflank obsolete until then?
Step 1. Play a dwarf with a 15 dex and a good str.
Step 2. Purchase a greataxe and dwarven boulder helm.
Step 3. ???
Step 4. Profit.
Just noticed that.
Forgive me, I rarely check the guide now and wrote it years ago.
I have fixed those issues.
Now remember the wolf feat tree is built to go off the Scimitar/Kukri Wielder ranger.
The ranger takes OUTFLANK at 7, the Wolf takes it at 8. (The earliest he can)
They BOTH take CO-ORDINATED CHARGE at 13.
The original point of Tandem Trip was so the WOLF got 2 chances to trip. Not needed with it's size and a good buff spell.
It does so as a free action anyway so doesn't chew actions.
Note: TANDEM TRIP is an Awesome feat but should be for HHighpoint buy games where you can afford the Int for Combat Expertise, Imp Trip.
Note: TANDEM TRIP is an Awesome feat but should be for HHighpoint buy games where you can afford the Int for Combat Expertise, Imp Trip.
What feats would you replace if you could take combat expertise and imp trip?
The fast answer is to swap Combat Reflexes With Combat Expertise, then Cleave for Improved Trip.
Out flank would be swapped for tandem trip. BUT this doesn't help the wolf much.
See Out flank adds +4 to his auto tripping Bite attack. Or a 20% chance of LANDING THE BITE
As opposed to rolling
2x on trip attempts. Which does not help the bite But buffs the trip attempt by 25%.
=/=
However, such a build means a RANGER will also be tripping. Between the pair of them an opponent should ALWAYS be on his back.
Personally I would say pick your version depending on your allies.
For example, If you are adventuring with a ROGUE, I would go with the tripper Ranger build. Rogues struggle to hit stuff so you can be a team player that way.
If your allies have little trouble hitting or you and puppy are the only beatsticks, you should go with the Combat Reflexes/Cleave build and let the Wolf trip while you kill things.
You do need another teamwork feat instead of tandem trip, as coordinated charge has two other teamwork feats as prereqs, so cleave will not work.Just noticed that.
Forgive me, I rarely check the guide now and wrote it years ago.
I have fixed those issues.
Now remember the wolf feat tree is built to go off the Scimitar/Kukri Wielder ranger.
The ranger takes OUTFLANK at 7, the Wolf takes it at 8. (The earliest he can)
They BOTH take CO-ORDINATED CHARGE at 13.
The original point of Tandem Trip was so the WOLF got 2 chances to trip. Not needed with it's size and a good buff spell.
It does so as a free action anyway so doesn't chew actions.
NOW I remember why TANDEM TRIP was originally in there.
OK.
So looking at this. I have edited the builds again.
The ranger has Outflank and Paired Opportunist at 7 and 9.
The Wolf takes them at 8 and 10.
So what happens is the Wolf trips (at +4 for flanking, +6 if you have MENACING on a weapon)
When a foe is PRONE and tries to stand he provokes. (You need to be adjacent for the +4 to AOO , but you don't need it for the free attack) so you both get an AOO, for the prone creature standing.
Now since you ALSO both have OUTFLANK and the RANGER is a Scimitar/Kukri wielder you BOTH get free AOO's when the ranger crits.
Armor Prof Heavy is taken at a Level when you can afford MITHRAL FULL PLATE which counts as Medium Armor.
A net gain of +3 AC over breastplate and doesn't cost you your combat style.