Here's a thought experiment for friendly discussion. Which is the worse cross class: sorcerer/wizard, or cleric/oracle? And why?
As a secondary topic, how viable do you think a sorcerer/wizard/bard is and why?
Have fun.
Here's a thought experiment for friendly discussion. Which is the worse cross class: sorcerer/wizard, or cleric/oracle? And why?
Sor/wiz. After you cripple spellcasting, a cleric/oracle still has medium BAB instead of low, d8 hit points instead of d6, medium armor instead of none, and 1.5 good saves instead of 1.
Sorc /wiz hands down. For all the reasons See listed above.
The one that stops being fun to play.
I like this answer. You win an internets!
PS I actually had someone play a sorwizarbard in 3.5 :P
In 3.5's Complete Mage there is a wiz/sorc prestige class called Ultimate Magus, it makes the combo far less ridiculous especially now that sorcerers can use intelligence for their casting stat.
Now I want to see a Wizard/Sorcerer/Bard/Magus in action
Anyone got the odds on the likely hood of such a thing living to gain that 4th class level?
It depends on how nice the party is.
If anything, at least you'll be able to cast spells all day. Just not very high level spells...
I think it would more depends upon how nice your GM is and how much the dice gods like you :)
Now I want to see a Wizard/Sorcerer/Bard/Magus in action
You should totally roll that. ;)
Crush them with cantrips! Maybe you can ask your GM for access to the rare cantrips so you don't run out of cool options. >.>
While certainly not a good idea, multiclassing every arcane class does have its benefits. Specifically, you'll gain an entire class worth of starting ability each level:
I would start with Wiz, since your spells will diminish in effectiveness at later levels- may as well use them now. Also pick up Arcane Strike, which goes by caster levels; it doesn't say they have to be in the same class. Then go into Witch to pick up hexes for lvl 2. Level 3 you can go into Magus and start attaching your lower level spells to attacks to stay competitive damage wise. You would probably also spend that lvl 3 feat on extra hexes. Lvl 4 go into summoner and pick up a utility eidolon rather than a combat oriented one. Lvl 5 go Sorcerer and get a bloodline and lvl 6 in Bard because bards are lame (lol jk).
Now the only problem is how to get into Eldrich Knight, which requires lvl 3 spellcasting. Really, you just have to knuckle down and take extra levels of Wizard of Witch (for the fast progression).
So when all is said and done you have pretty much every class skill and all of the class abilities and level one spells of all these classes and an eidolon to back you up. Also, your name is now Senor Vorpal Kickasso.
Fit as many classes and prestige classes you can at 20th level :)
'He is the worlds most interesting man'
There is 11 core and 8 base classes. Some of them are incompatibile with others (paladin/monk with antipaladin/barbarian, paladin/antipaladin with druid) which leaves us with Alchemist 1/Barbarian 1/Cavalier 1/Cleric 1/Druid 1/Bard 1/Fighter 1/Gunslinger 1/Inquisitor 1/Magus 1/Oracle 1/Ranger 1/Rogue 1/Sorcerer 1/Summoner 1/Witch 1/Wizard 1 and 3 levels for Prestige Classes...
I'm playing a Wizard 2 Bard 1, thinking about taking Sorcerer (arcane bloodline) next level. He already has high Charisma, and it just seems to fit the character. He plays like an impetus youth with too many spells and self-esteem that is higher than it deserves to be. He put up an Adventurers Wanted ad to form a party, ran interviews, then 'borrowed' some of his father's things to make the first adventure happen. He is the self-nominated Leader and Face of the party. He is a lot of fun to play, and this combo of classes seems just right.
Ineffective? Not at all. With Scribe Scroll and these classes he can cast almost any 1st or 2nd level spell needed, he is extremely versatile. He may fall behind in terms of power, but his battlefield control should still be great.
Actually,
With the new sorcerer bloodlines that alter casting stat, it's not at all hard to multi sorcerer anything anymore.
I'm currently playing a sorcerer/monk that cranks serious damage (Empyreal Sorcerer/Zen Archer monk, self armors and self buffs his bow, which is great considering our lack of magic power on the team, a cleric and an artificer and a fighter are the other 3).
Now, to me, the worst multiclass combo would have to be Paladin/Witch or Paladin/Wizard. Paladin's are already MAD, and then adding needing high int on top of that. Plus add in the pally's class restrictions...
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Here's a thought experiment for friendly discussion. Which is the worse cross class: sorcerer/wizard, or cleric/oracle? And why?
As a secondary topic, how viable do you think a sorcerer/wizard/bard is and why?
Have fun.
Dragon Disciple / Synthesist
The physical stats / attacks of each are mutually exclusive.
Sorc 1 Crossblooded / Wizard x can be pretty effective.
Give up one level of spell casting and pick up 2 unique arcanas.
I don't think you can say the same for oracle 1 / cleric x or cleric 1/ oracle x.
On the contrary, I think there are lots of decent revelations you could cherry-pick with one level of oracle and the feat Extra Revelation. And a cleric has more use for a little bit of Charisma than a wizard does, IMO.
Presonally, I was never a big supporter of the Mystic Theurge. You may have a lot of spells, but you can only cast one per round anyway, and you are least one level behind the curve.
That said, I have been working on the worse MT combo and so far it is Bard/Ranger for core classes.
Hmm... Arcane Strike, Favored Enemy, and the Kirin Style feats from UC...
The ones I like are the Babarian / Caster multiclasses. Not terrible when you break them down to their individual parts, but when that character is the only healing character in the party (i.e. Barbarian / Cleric) it can make it a bit more difficult to work with. Especially in that big fight where his muscle is needed, but so is his healing to keep the party standing.
Barbarian / Wizard or Sorc though, that can be a lot of fun when done right. Blow your spells right off the bat, then rush in "guns a blazing" and beat on the bad guys.
summoner/anything: loosing the eidolon/summon sla advancement turns the summoner class levels as nothing but dead weight.
I could see summoner 1/any X if you just want to dump all evo points into skilled evolution just for the utility, but a Rogue with eldritch Heritage or Advanced Rogue talent Familiar would be just as useful.
I once made a magus/summoner (synthesist). Turned out much more powerful than I was expecting despite being an odd choice.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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The real measuring stick for a multiclass spellcaster is to pick a single 1st-level spell and cast it as many times per day as you can. :D
When you can keep casting color spray or sleep or something non-stop for like two minutes, I'll be impressed. ;)
Screw that, give me a summoner/cavalier/Druid/Wizard (with familiar), have a managerie travel with you, but only ever have one fight with you at any time, call yourself a pokemaster.
Or you could play oh, I don't know, a Preservationist Alchemist? ;)
define what you mean by "worse cross class" for me?
Are you looking for the most inherently ridiculous, least effective, most twinkish, or some other measurement?
Any, all, and none of those or other reasons. I did say "and why" afterall
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.....which leaves us with Alchemist 1/Barbarian 1/Cavalier 1/Cleric 1/Druid 1/Bard 1/Fighter 1/Gunslinger 1/Inquisitor 1/Magus 1/Oracle 1/Ranger 1/Rogue 1/Sorcerer 1/Summoner 1/Witch 1/Wizard 1 and 3 levels for Prestige Classes...Now I have an idea for a tortured, experimented NPC... thanks!
I thought you weren't allowed to have fighter and gunslinger levels?
I thought you weren't allowed to have fighter and gunslinger levels?.....which leaves us with Alchemist 1/Barbarian 1/Cavalier 1/Cleric 1/Druid 1/Bard 1/Fighter 1/Gunslinger 1/Inquisitor 1/Magus 1/Oracle 1/Ranger 1/Rogue 1/Sorcerer 1/Summoner 1/Witch 1/Wizard 1 and 3 levels for Prestige Classes...Now I have an idea for a tortured, experimented NPC... thanks!
That was during the beta. Gunslinger was officially made into its own class, and not an alternate class.
I thought you weren't allowed to have fighter and gunslinger levels?.....which leaves us with Alchemist 1/Barbarian 1/Cavalier 1/Cleric 1/Druid 1/Bard 1/Fighter 1/Gunslinger 1/Inquisitor 1/Magus 1/Oracle 1/Ranger 1/Rogue 1/Sorcerer 1/Summoner 1/Witch 1/Wizard 1 and 3 levels for Prestige Classes...Now I have an idea for a tortured, experimented NPC... thanks!
Nothing would prevent that... they are two different classes.
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That was during the beta. Gunslinger was officially made into its own class, and not an alternate class.I thought you weren't allowed to have fighter and gunslinger levels?.....which leaves us with Alchemist 1/Barbarian 1/Cavalier 1/Cleric 1/Druid 1/Bard 1/Fighter 1/Gunslinger 1/Inquisitor 1/Magus 1/Oracle 1/Ranger 1/Rogue 1/Sorcerer 1/Summoner 1/Witch 1/Wizard 1 and 3 levels for Prestige Classes...Now I have an idea for a tortured, experimented NPC... thanks!
same with ninja and samurai?
same with ninja and samurai?
As Jiggy said, no. Gunslinger departed pretty far from fighter, whereas ninja and samurai are still relatively close to rogue and cavalier respectively.
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It all depends on the situation
Generally, classes that know many spells but must prepare spells are ultimately more effective in the end. The more diverse spell selection allows for more versatile spell preperation to adapt to situations.
Spontaneous casters eventually get screwed in the end, always.
It sucks when you (don't have the spell you need)
Also, most ridiculous class combo possible is anything involving bard imo
There is 11 core and 8 base classes. Some of them are incompatibile with others (paladin/monk with antipaladin/barbarian, paladin/antipaladin with druid) which leaves us with Alchemist 1/Barbarian 1/Cavalier 1/Cleric 1/Druid 1/Bard 1/Fighter 1/Gunslinger 1/Inquisitor 1/Magus 1/Oracle 1/Ranger 1/Rogue 1/Sorcerer 1/Summoner 1/Witch 1/Wizard 1 and 3 levels for Prestige Classes...Fit as many classes and prestige classes you can at 20th level :)
'He is the worlds most interesting man'
Actually, you can be a Martial Artist Monk or be Monk for your first level than stop your monastic training, then dedicate yourself to Paladinism and so on.
So an Alchemist 1/Barbarian 1/ Bard 1/ Cavalier-or-Samurai 1/Cleric 1/Druid 1/ Fighter 1/ Gunslinger 1/ Inquisitor 1/ Magus 1/ Monk 1/ Oracle 1/ Paladin-or-Antipaladin 1/ Ranger 1 / Rogue-or-Ninja 1/ Sorcerer 1/ Summoner 1/ Witch 1/ Wizard 1.Add a level of Paladin to at least get Divine Grace, pimp your Cha to benefit from spells, smite, divine grace, lay on hands, channel energy, ninja ki pool, summon monster ability, oracle revelation, sorcerer bloodline power and number of bardic song rounds per day.
Pimp your Int for bombs, extracts, spells, wizard school power, arcane pool and .
Pimp your Wis for divine spells, cleric domain power, inquisitor bane ability, grit points, wisdom AC and stunning fist.
Be an Halfling to ride your dog companion, be a Synthesist to have good physical attributes or a Master Summoner for extra company during your journey, put your 2 spellbooks and your formulae book into your handy haversack (dont take a component pouch, thanks go to the Sorcerer), grab your deity focus and your spray of berries, grab your mandolin, your portable alchemist lab and your pistol then command your dog and your fox (actually Red&Toby) and your Eidolon, if you still have one, to follow you on the road of awesomeness, wondering the world to train everyone to whatever path they like.
By the way, you have access to all spell lists, making thus a great candidate for crafting. Be an UMD master. Using fractional Bab, you will end up with 17 bab. Your base saving throws will be 27/12/29 + Cha. Your HP 105 (medium) + 20 times your Con modifier (Synthesist adds 5.5, uses then Eidolon Con).
Yeah SD for HiPS, good catch :)
i cannot understand how people think that being one level behind in spell level is equal to being able do literally everything.
And I cannot understand how anyone could look at trading three levels of spellcaster level and spell progression to moderately expand your class spell list and see anything but a major loss of power. If your game can be broken by an MT, it will be utterly shattered by a standard wizard.
Alchemist1/witch 1 can cast beguiling gift with a mutagen to make a target nauseated for one hour if they are not an alchemist. This would be nuts for gestalt.
A moderate level MT should never ever run out of spells.
I can only imagine what you'd think of my Witch X (healing patron)/CBSorc 1 (Fey/Serpentine), who never runs out of spells even with reduced numbers due to class/etc and runs primarily as an enchanter. Just gotta know how to pace yourself! And whom has/will have access to the some of the juciest spells from both Cleric and Wiz lists, or at least enough to be really dangerous :)
Who needs Mystic Theurge?