When I get UC, I want to check out how a martial artist monk/savage barbarian would look like. I always wanted to try a less monk-ish martial artist, and the alignment restriction of monks (and for that matter, all non-divine casters) is one of my pet peeves.
I need to see just how well supported it is, but I'm itching to make a beatdown specialist :) .
From a flavor perspective, I'm a fan of the Undine Flowing Monk focusing on the Marid Style feats, but the damn BAB requirements on Elemental Fist make it impossible for anyone but a Monk of the Four Winds to focus on any of the elemental-themed Style feats, and Four Winds isn't compatible with Flowing Monk.
The annoying thing is that the table for Marid Style has an 'or monk level 5' line in the prerequisites, but there's no special line in the actual feat description mentioning it's availability as a bonus feat or something.
Still, the basic concept would look something like (20 point buy)
Str 12 (14-2)
Dex 18 (16+2)
Con 14
Wis 16 (14+2)
Int 9
Cha 7
1st level feats: Weapon Finesse, Agile Maneuvers.
The basic build would focus on maneuvers and avoidance/denial rather than raw damage.
When I get UC, I want to check out how a martial artist monk/savage barbarian would look like.Monk/barbarian doesnt work. Barb requires non-lawful alignment of you lose abilities. Monk requires lawful.
Martial artist archetype allows you to be any alignment. Unarmed Barbarians rejoice!
As for the martial artist / savage barbarian, it seems like a strong combo. The biggest problem would be that Martial Artist doesn't get Still Mind, which means he can't get Monastic Legacy (counting 1/2 non-monk levels as monk levels for unarmed). But frankly, with all the new monk and barbarian tricks in UC, you won't have trouble keeping damage up even without it.
I just wish I could go Master of Many Styles / Savage + Urban Barbarian. Panther Style and Snake Style with great defense and massive barbarian damage, running around the battlefield daring enemies to attack. Sadly, alignment restrictions mean it will never be.
As for the martial artist / savage barbarian, it seems like a strong combo. The biggest problem would be that Martial Artist doesn't get Still Mind, which means he can't get Monastic Legacy (counting 1/2 non-monk levels as monk levels for unarmed). But frankly, with all the new monk and barbarian tricks in UC, you won't have trouble keeping damage up even without it.
Yep, saw that today; the tradeoff for ki seems only good if you go heavy on MA levels, rather than barbarian ones. Bleh, I was hoping for something like MA 6/Barb the rest. On the other hand, a MA gets immunity to fatigue at level 5, which works very well with rage :) . Plus, there's got to be a good, high-damage monk weapon around, no one says you have to go unarmed all the time :) .
Another option is to just be monk until level 6, then change alignment and go barbarian. You can't go back, but you keep all monk levels.
Maneuver Master monk focusing on Tripping with the Temple Sword and Vicious Stomp.
Sensei/Drunken master with panther style/panther claw. Max wisdom, stumble around with a move action and smack people when they try to hit you at full attack bonus.
When done, make standard attack defensively and activate crane style. If targeted by ranged attacks, fall prone as a free action and activate monkey style.
prototype00
Half-orc Martial Artist with the Gatecrasher trait and other sunder-related things, taking advantage of the Sense Weakness ability to punch his way through solid walls.
Ooh, with a decently high level all wisdom, all the time build, punishing kick comboed with vicious stomp is nasty.
Makes a nice combo with the drunkenly stumbling panther previously mentioned.
prototype00
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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I'm very pleased with how well people have taken to the new monk options. They do provide a lot of fun and interesting new ways to play for a class a lot of people pooh-poohed, and even just looking at the variety of mix-and-match you see here bears that out.
Viva la difference! Viva la fun! :)
For those interested in Raw Damage.
Martial Artist + Dragon Style and all of the other damage feats means you're finally able to deal decent amount of damage with unarmed strike.
In terms of full on DPR, Sohei might end up being king of the roost if they get their hands on a Nodachi at around 6th lvl.
For those interested in Raw Damage.
Martial Artist + Dragon Style and all of the other damage feats means you're finally able to deal decent amount of damage with unarmed strike.
In terms of full on DPR, Sohei might end up being king of the roost if they get their hands on a Nodachi at around 6th lvl.
Wow... I was just going to argue that they can't get weapon training in Heavy Blades... then I double checked the list and saw that they are ALSO included in the Polearm list.
Sick.
(and thanks for schooling me on that!)
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From a flavor perspective, I'm a fan of the Undine Flowing Monk focusing on the Marid Style feats, but the damn BAB requirements on Elemental Fist make it impossible for anyone but a Monk of the Four Winds to focus on any of the elemental-themed Style feats, and Four Winds isn't compatible with Flowing Monk.
Flowing Monk + Marid Style is something for which I'd love to see a workaround discovered. Right now the earliest I can figure for a Flowing Monk to start on the Marid Style chain is level 13 or so, and that's just before the end of most Adventure Paths.
Although that bit about the prereqs has me hopeful for errata.
Ask your DM if it's ok to replace Stunning Fist with Elemental Fist. That seems the easiest work around.
Shelyn's favored weapon is a glaive.
For Crusader's Flurry, I like the idea of a cleric of Sarenrae/monk. Then you could have a Dervish Dancing monk. Go into Weapon Master, and have fun flurrying with a scimitar.
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Ask your DM if it's ok to replace Stunning Fist with Elemental Fist. That seems the easiest work around.
At a glance that's what I'd definitely roll with as a GM. I think Flowing Monk replaces Stunning Fist with something though. Damn my books being located in a place that is not the one I'm currently located...
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Ask your DM if it's ok to replace Stunning Fist with Elemental Fist. That seems the easiest work around.At a glance that's what I'd definitely roll with as a GM. I think Flowing Monk replaces Stunning Fist with something though. Damn my books being located in a place that is not the one I'm currently located...
The Redirection class ability replaces Stunning Fist.
You know what goes well with vicious stomp and panther style/claw/Parry? Punishing kick. It lets you bypass CMD and target fort to make an enemy prone (which at least is choice, I suppose) and if you're using the Panther series of feats, you can use it to push the enemy back 5 feet and *hopefully* out of range.
prototype00
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The Redirection class ability replaces Stunning Fist.Ask your DM if it's ok to replace Stunning Fist with Elemental Fist. That seems the easiest work around.At a glance that's what I'd definitely roll with as a GM. I think Flowing Monk replaces Stunning Fist with something though. Damn my books being located in a place that is not the one I'm currently located...
Just saw it again today. And that's pretty much the Flowing Monk's bread'n'butter too.
Wonder if a more restricted version of Elemental Fist that can take its place as a prereq could turn up, one that allows only one element and possibly with less oomph. Something similar to what Dragon Ferocity nets you.
I've got a Halfling Sensei/Ki Mystic/Qinggong build that I'm about to start playing in PbP. Sensei and Ki Mystic are ridiculously synergistic. Huge amounts of Ki, great Stunning Fists, lovely AC and Saves.
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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Tiger Style: the Tiger Pounce ability to apply your Power Attack penalty to your AC, instead of your attack, is amazingly powerful.
I guess I don't understand the fascination with the Nodachi and various deities' favored weapons: you still only get to add 1xSTR when you use a weapon with flurry of blows. The Power Attack bonus to damage is nice, it's not as nice as it is for a fighter wielding a two handed weapon. It does look like there might be some synergy between this weapon-wielding approach and Tiger Pounce...
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Tiger Style: the Tiger Pounce ability to apply your Power Attack penalty to your AC, instead of your attack, is amazingly powerful.
I guess I don't understand the fascination with the Nodachi and various deities' favored weapons: you still only get to add 1xSTR when you use a weapon with flurry of blows. The Power Attack bonus to damage is nice, it's not as nice as it is for a fighter wielding a two handed weapon. It does look like there might be some synergy between this weapon-wielding approach and Tiger Pounce...
Mainly because of reach. It's tough to find among the various monk weapons. Also, and this si important, flurrying with bows and unarmed strikes. This si something the Zen Archer lacked so you can effectively switch hit between arrows and unarmed strikes.
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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Tiger Style: the Tiger Pounce ability to apply your Power Attack penalty to your AC, instead of your attack, is amazingly powerful.
I guess I don't understand the fascination with the Nodachi and various deities' favored weapons: you still only get to add 1xSTR when you use a weapon with flurry of blows. The Power Attack bonus to damage is nice, it's not as nice as it is for a fighter wielding a two handed weapon. It does look like there might be some synergy between this weapon-wielding approach and Tiger Pounce...
Master of many styles multiclassed with a fighter with the unarmed archetype ftw. look at how this works.
You must start with 1 level of fighter. You get any style feat (ignoring prereqs) and can take power attack and weapon focus at 1st level.
Your 2nd and 3rd levels would be master of many styles monk. At each level, you get an additional free style feat, (ignoring prereqs again!). After this, you can go with either class and you will have a strong character. My prefered route is 4 levels of monk (for ki pool and monastic legacy) and straight fighter.
PROS: in those 1st three levels, you can get power attack, weapon focus and one other useful feat with your 1st/3rd and human bonus feat. The beauty lies in your bonus style feats. Take tiger style, dragon style and tiger pounce. By 3rd level, you can do 1.5 strength damage AND power attack with no penalty to hit. At 5th level, you can get dragon ferocity, and at 7th you qualify for tiger strike. That means by 7th level, you can do a power attack tiger strike where you roll once to hit at max bonus, while power attacking and enjoying double strength damage on each of two damage rolls. Until base attack reaches 11, this is the only full attack option you will ever want to make.
CONS: you lose flurry of blows. I'm not gonna lie, this is a biggie. That's why in many respects, I view Master of many style as an awesome dip option rather than a single class. If you multiclass, you'll never have a great flurry anyway, so its not as big a sacrifice. Now with the new unarmed archetypes for fighter and barbarians, there are a lot of attractive options to consider. Other than the loss of flurry, there really isn't a downside to the archetype.
Master of many styles multiclassed with a fighter with the unarmed archetype ftw. look at how this works.
You must start with 1 level of fighter. You get any style feat (ignoring prereqs) and can take power attack and weapon focus at 1st level.
I'm inspired by your build to include a 1 level dip of unarmed fighter into any monk archetype. You get good hit die, access to all the yummy new martial/exotic monk weapons (three sectioned staff is 1d10 19-20 crit, that sure beats the 1d6 damage you're doing at 1st level), and a free style feat that is pre-reqs free (I'm thinking snake fang myself, that way I can take snake style later and have the full revenge combo (snake style/panther style) up and running early).
prototype00
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Master of many styles multiclassed with a fighter with the unarmed archetype ftw. look at how this works.
You must start with 1 level of fighter. You get any style feat (ignoring prereqs) and can take power attack and weapon focus at 1st level.
I'm inspired by your build to include a 1 level dip of unarmed fighter into any monk archetype. You get good hit die, access to all the yummy new martial/exotic monk weapons (three sectioned staff is 1d10 19-20 crit, that sure beats the 1d6 damage you're doing at 1st level), and a free style feat that is pre-reqs free (I'm thinking snake fang myself, that way I can take snake style later and have the full revenge combo (snake style/panther style) up and running early).
prototype00
Agreed. One level of unarmed fighter compliments any monk build quite well. the weapons, the BAB and HP, and also the free style feat make it practically a no-brainer for almost any build. And yes, snake-panther is quite nice.