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Can I play devil's advocate for a minute? Hopefully nobody misinterprets my take on this as trolling. The reasoning on why Aroden's fate remains a mystery and will remain a mystery is flawed. The reason seems to be that a GM can fill in the blanks and this is somehow better than knowing the cannon of the world. I strongly disagree.
Why is this particular topic the one that it is good to not know? Why is it good for us to know all the different orders of Hell Knights, the locations and boons of all the magic schools, what color hair Shalelu has, which gods the dwarves worship, what types of creatures hang out in Pharasma's courtyard, yet a huge part of the story of the world is left missing?
Depending on what path your players go down, it would be extremely handy to know the secrets behind Aroden's demise. Maybe I'm just bitter because I fished through as much Pathfinder material as I could find when starting my campaign specifically because Aroden's death was potentially part of a player's back story. The search was fruitless of course. Hundreds of references exist to Aroden's death and the people and circumstances around it, but nothing substantial.
I hope somebody can chime in and convince me I'm wrong. Convince me why it's important for this one event to be hinted at a thousand times but never explained and why we can get information on nearly anything else in the world. Just don't start with "then the GM can decide!" because a GM can do that whether or not something is published. Taken to the extreme, Golarion could have simply been a blank piece of paper where the GM can decide everything.
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That said, I was somewhat forced into a corner on my campaign, so even though I just said I'd rather have it published, Aroden's death is heavily involved in my campaign. None of players read this if you happen to find this post.
Aroden died, just not in any normal way. He was a god, after all. I played it that Asmodeus convinced Gozreh, fickle god that he is, that Aroden was responsible for the rapid rise of humanity, which is infringing on nature and gradually destroying the planet. They agreed to knock Aroden down a peg. Gods are more vulnerable when they make themselves completely present on Golarion rather than staying safely tucked away on some distant plane. As soon as Aroden reappeared, some mystical godly event happened using both Gozreh's and Asmodeus's power, ending with the creation of the Eye of Abendego and the death of Aroden.
The plan didn't work out well for Gozreh. Humans continued to expand and now Asmodeus was easily able to set up Cheliax as the empire of devils. Plus instead of Aroden being simply imprisoned, he was ripped apart. Gozreh had an agreement with Asmodeus though. Fickle as he is, he knows as well as any gods that Asmodeus helped imprison Rovagug and carries the key to unlocking him. Best to not go back on their agreement.
Where was Pharasma in all this? I waffle on this point sometimes. I don't see any form of prophecy as perfect even if it is your domain. And I suspect if other gods of her power put their efforts into somehow blocking her sight or confusing it, she wouldn't have known. But if she did know, and knew that two gods arguably her equals if not superiors were involved, she would have done nothing even if she wanted to.
Aroden was not completely destroyed though. Being once a human, he had three forms of existence: his divinity, his human body, and his soul. His human body is dead. His soul, however, is now trapped in the Eye of Abendego. His divinity, which I view largely as another divine soul, is in a special room in Pharasma's palace, awaiting her judgment.
Which brings us to the start of the campaign. Aroden has spent the last 100 years with his consciousness in his soul, trapped in the Eye. He has essentially no power to speak of, but is spending all his energy, effectively as a super weak undead god ghost thing, to sap some amount of divine spark from the Eye itself. Every once in a while some crazy pirates go a bit too far into the eye, resulting in their demise. When one goes quite deep into the Eye, Aroden attempts to reshape a recently deceased mortal body into one suitable for him, bringing himself back to life. Whether he could reclaim his divinity or would have to attempt the Starstone again was irrelevant; anything is better than an eternity of body-less imprisonment.
It didn't work out. New life was born, but it did not gain his personality. Instead, a new personality formed. Eventually the body drifted onto shore and the new personality simply thought he had lost his memories. He is the PC I mentioned earlier and he plays a Stormborn Sorcerer. I bet Paizo didn't expect people to take that name literally ;)
Aroden's consciousness is linked to this PC and every once in a while he basically haunts the PC. I have it so that it is basically just his emotions haunting him. We're actually playing through the Runelords campaign (among other plots that turn up) so this works. Aroden sometimes shows up angry, sometimes sad, sometimes childlike. The party hasn't figured out what's going on.
Now all this might seem mostly meaningless. Isn't he just a haunted sorcerer? The overarching plot is this. Pharasma chose not to judge Aroden, in part because she and some other gods don't like the idea of gods dying. She intercedes in a subtle way. At this point Asmodeus has granted some of his followers powers of prophecy that they are using to find heroes of good before they become powerful and kill them. Pharasma creates an avatar of a young mute girl who creates drawings of these heroes' deaths before they happen. She forms a group that uses various methods of preventing these deaths from happening. Most importantly, they ensured the survival of the party right before the start of the Runelords campaign.
Now, there is a good back and forth between Pharasma's followers (one of which is a PC in the party which meta-wise is why I chose for her to play such a huge part in the story) and Asmodeus's followers. Every once in a while the avatar shows up, seemingly for no reason sometimes, sometimes because an attack from Cheliax is en route.
The PCs sometimes get frustrated talking to the seers of either god. None of them will tell the PCs exactly what is going on for fear that that knowledge will change what they are meant to do.
Ultimately, the group will hopefully succeed against the Runelords. I have a bit of extra content that should bring them just barely into epic/mythic play. Then they will finally need to face the strongest of Asmodeus's followers on Golarion and enter the Eye to find what remains of Aroden and attempt to bring him back.
Isn't he buried under the endzone of Giants' Staduium?
Just like everything else in Golarion, Aroden might simply be the contemporary interpretation of things in our world. I.E., hes the "god of humans" with the city at the center, yada yada. Aka, he's the archetypal "God/Allah" and Absalom is Jerusalem. Pretty obvious when you think about it. Hence, that's why you'll never hear what happened to him.
Eh, not exactly. No Judeo-Christian or Islamic interpretation of God works like Aroden. At all. He's not a Christ-allegory, he's not Mohammed, and he's not the Abramic Visitor. He's a guy who gained immortality and was eventually killed by unknown means and ways.
Can I play devil's advocate for a minute?
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Asmodeus
Huh. I didn't think you meant that literally! :)
Stuff, some quite neat.
That's pretty cool, actually. Very different from my thought on the matter, but it makes some amount of sense. And that, in and of itself, is the perfect reason for keeping Aroden's death quiet.
By destroying Aroden (and thus circumventing prophecy, and making a meaningless death) he wins in several different ways - first, he destroys someone that is, over-all, an opponent of his; second he proves himself (in his own mind) superior to "the god of humanity" - the god of the "greatest" (or at least most expansive and powerful) race on the planet; third, it also helps assuage his jealousy (Aroden being one of the formerly mortal gods who didn't have to die in order to ascend); fourth, the whole storms/flood/destruction brought much tragedy (and accidents) - again, helping his portfolio gain power; fifth, "Zyphus" has visual similarity to "zephyr" or wind-spirit - a strange coincidence, considering that storms of various kinds wracked the world with his death (which you, validly enough, interpreted as Gozreh's involvement, but which I interpret to be Zyphus attempting to stir up Gozreh as well); sixth, it puts a weaker, less-experienced deity in charge of humanity (Iomedae), and thus would allow Zyphus to work more easily, with less interference; and seventh, it would be thumbing his nose at Pharasma, thus allowing him to strike a blow against her.
Even if Zyphus wasn't the direct agent (as he wasn't powerful enough), simply working to bring it about means that he could be the ultimate "cause" of the death. The fact that Pharasma did judge Aroden's soul (at least according to what we understand) means that his scheme (if, indeed, it was his) was not completely successful - he didn't get to eat Aroden's 'soul'.
EDIT: it's even possible that Zyphus was at one point human, and thus was hoping to get out from under the power of the broad portfolio Aroden had as god of humanity.
On the other hand, I've also got an opposing one:
This would allow him the time to make a truly lasting dynasty for an actual and literal eternity, rather than just the "super-long time" version of "eternity" that Golarion (and the outer sphere) will last, in-canon prophecy.
Again, neither of those are necessarily correct - both might be. I mean, it could even have been a cosmic burp from one of the Great Old Ones (Oops, our bad, did we accidentally annihilate the bedrock upon which a bunch of lesser species of a single, insignificant planet that we might not even realize exists stand upon? Oh well, we had to burp, so suck it up and take it like the microbes you "people" are).
It's a powerful GM tool to tailor to their own campaign, exactly like you did. I, for one, like it. Do I want to know Paizo's official answer? Of course! But I also enjoy the mystery. I'd prefer the former, but enjoy the latter.
Also, vis-a-vis, "taking that to it's logical conclusion"... no, respectfully, I disagree - I think that's not true at all. What they do with Aroden's death is the exact thing they've taken to the logical conclusion already: "Hey, this thing exists, we give you a some important information about it, but the specifics are left up to you, 'cause, you know, that's your game."
Example: Golarion. They give you 1) history (but not many specific heroes or champtions) 2) countries and borders and cities (but leave large tracts of unspecified wilderness with delightfully contradictory maps of those places) 3) sometimes-contradictory universal "truths" (which may or may not be applicable) that allow you to pick and choose what to apply to your game 4) hints (and occasional statements) about how it really is 5) the races that live there, their general routes to living where they do, the reasons they're prominent or not, and random chance encounters (but not the specifics of how many live there).
Aroden's not even the only god (or super-powered being) that has this treatment - the Peacock Spirit, Count Renalc, and even Nex all have the same stuff applied. It's a mystery for GMs to clarify and adapt to their own campaign.
Just like everything else in Golarion, Aroden might simply be the contemporary interpretation of things in our world. I.E., hes the "god of humans" with the city at the center, yada yada. Aka, he's the archetypal "God/Allah" and Absalom is Jerusalem. Pretty obvious when you think about it. Hence, that's why you'll never hear what happened to him.Eh, not exactly. No Judeo-Christian or Islamic interpretation of God works like Aroden. At all. He's not a Christ-allegory, he's not Mohammed, and he's not the Abramic Visitor. He's a guy who gained immortality and was eventually killed by unknown means and ways.
True . . . but if you simply look at the history of Absalom (not to mention the very name), you'll see there are an assortment of similarities to Judaic history that it probably wasn't an accident. Was Aroden meant to be a "God" figure in Golarion? I'm not so sure about that myself; however, it would be simple to plug in that aspect to the old faith in that world if one desired to do so. Again, it would be an easy interpretation, so long as you didn't try to over-analyze it as needing to be an exact match, because it certainly isn't that!
Also, I don't think it would be a grand idea for Paizo to release the answer to this mystery anymore. They've built a lot up around it in the world, not to mention--and probably more importantly--the extraordinary hype surrounding the truth of it amongst the player base. I have a feeling that if they did release the knowledge now it would be a huge disappointment to a great many . . . kind of like that huge summer box office hit so greatly anticipated by the masses that when they finally see the film there's no way it can possibly live up to it. Probably best now if they just leave it alone and let the people running campaigns work it out for themselves as they see best for their games.
Eh, not exactly. No Judeo-Christian or Islamic interpretation of God works like Aroden. At all. He's not a Christ-allegory, he's not Mohammed, and he's not the Abramic Visitor. He's a guy who gained immortality and was eventually killed by unknown means and ways.True . . . but if you simply look at the history of Absalom (not to mention the very name), you'll see there are an assortment of similarities to Judaic history that it probably wasn't an accident. Was Aroden meant to be a "God" figure in Golarion? I'm not so sure about that myself; however, it would be simple to plug in that aspect to the old faith in that world if one desired to do so. Again, it would be an easy interpretation, so long as you didn't try to over-analyze it as needing to be an exact match, because it certainly isn't that!
Also, I don't think it would be a grand idea for Paizo to release the answer to this mystery anymore. They've built a lot up around it in the world, not to mention--and probably more importantly--the extraordinary hype surrounding the truth of it amongst the player base. I have a feeling that if they did release the knowledge now it would be a huge disappointment to a great many . . . kind of like that huge summer box office hit so greatly anticipated by the masses that when they finally see the film there's no way it can possibly live up to it. Probably best now if they just leave it alone and let the people running campaigns work it out for themselves as they see best for their games.
I wholeheartedly agree to to most of what you're saying. I can see the locations of naming conventions easily.
For the curious: Absalom was King David's (of the Bible fame) most beloved son and had outrageous hair (which was kind of his undoing, but I digress) - it wasn't until said son attempted to throw a bloody coup against his own father (and was killed against David's explicit orders) that David turned toward Solomon (the really smart, but quiet kid from David's "little" indiscretion that caused the death of many through plague). As a result of that little tidbit in history, Absalom doesn't really appear in history anywhere - no one wants their son to be associated with the patricidal* jerk who died because he had great hair and overblown ambitions. It's not often found elsewhere. Finding it anywhere instantly makes one aware that somebody's read their Bible** somewhere along the way.
There are many things like that in Pathfinder. I wasn't attempting to deny that (although I can see how it looks like I was, for which I apologize, especially to you, Count_Rugen). I was just distancing the actual practical application of any of the real-world religions into anything resembling Golarion's religions. 'Cause, dudes, they look nothing alike.
In other n3ws***: yeah, I'm pretty sure it'd be really awkward for Paizo to release the information. I'm also pretty sure that's why James Jacobs et. al. has zero in the way of plans to do so. That said, I'm desperately curious to know what *James* thinks happened.
*Why does spellcheck not like my words?
**Or had it read to them!
***This was not actually news****.
****But that was!
P.S. Why do I always read my posts with a much deeper mental voice than I actually have? Agh! I think I got some Aroden on me!
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Aroden's not even the only god (or super-powered being) that has this treatment - the Peacock Spirit, Count Renalc, and even Nex all have the same stuff applied. It's a mystery for GMs to clarify and adapt to their own campaign.
Interesting, and true. As an aside, Aroden, Count Ranalc, and Nex are all "my" NPCs (in that I created them), and I have plenty more to say about all of them. So while I'm not 100% sure we'll ever come out and say "so here is the deal with Aroden's death," I am dead certain that a lot more about all of these characters will be revealed in the future.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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True . . . but if you simply look at the history of Absalom (not to mention the very name), you'll see there are an assortment of similarities to Judaic history that it probably wasn't an accident. Was Aroden meant to be a "God" figure in Golarion? I'm not so sure about that myself; however, it would be simple to plug in that aspect to the old faith in that world if one desired to do so. Again, it would be an easy interpretation, so long as you didn't try to over-analyze it as needing to be an exact match, because it certainly isn't that!
Absalom is definitely an analog of Jerusalem, with perhaps a bit of Constantinople thrown in. Those ideas definitely informed the original idea of the City at the Center of the World.
Aroden isn't intentionally supposed to be a God/Allah/Jehovah/Jesus figure, though. I can see how you could layer that on him (he certainly works as a "monotheism" sort of cultural god, if you want to play it that way), but it isn't really part of the central idea that informed his creation.
Aroden's not even the only god (or super-powered being) that has this treatment - the Peacock Spirit, Count Renalc, and even Nex all have the same stuff applied. It's a mystery for GMs to clarify and adapt to their own campaign.Interesting, and true. As an aside, Aroden, Count Ranalc, and Nex are all "my" NPCs (in that I created them), and I have plenty more to say about all of them. So while I'm not 100% sure we'll ever come out and say "so here is the deal with Aroden's death," I am dead certain that a lot more about all of these characters will be revealed in the future.
You, sir, created two out of my three favorite mystery creatures (Peacock Spirit being the third)! The funny thing is, I've noted a strange similarity that I really can't put my finger on on Aroden and your other two - something about magic or legacy or something else, I'm not certain - and I guess it's because they have the same creator!
I'm really - really looking forward to hearing what you have to say! I'm curious, though, do you have your own ("decisive", regardless of what Paizo will ever choose say) opinion about what happened to Aroden, or is it more "This would make a cool plot-hook!"?
Anyway, I've been told on the Jerusalem analog! :D
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Just don't start with "then the GM can decide!" because a GM can do that whether or not something is published.
First, an IC mystery that is explained OOCly doesn't actually work like a mystery; even players good at keeping OOC and IC knowledge separate intellectually can't do so emotionally. If the setting is to have any major mysteries, the only effective method to keep them mysterious is to not publish the answer.
Second, once a mystery is given an official explanation, future canon assumes the explanation, instead of they mystery. Pretty soon you wind up with a situation where the GM can't decide what the actual answer is—at least not without rewriting large chunks of published setting. And if he's going to have to rewrite large chunks of the setting material, why bother using the published setting?
First, an IC mystery that is explained OOCly doesn't actually work like a mystery; even players good at keeping OOC and IC knowledge separate intellectually can't do so emotionally. If the setting is to have any major mysteries, the only effective method to keep them mysterious is to not publish the answer.
So what of all the solved mysteries we have in Golarion? Is that all ruined content? We can't use it in a campaign now because Paizo told us the answers? I'm GMing a Pathfinder campaign and have read a ton on Golarion. Am I now spoiled and unable to be a player because of my knowledge?
Second, once a mystery is given an official explanation, future canon assumes the explanation, instead of they mystery. Pretty soon you wind up with a situation where the GM can't decide what the actual answer is—at least not without rewriting large chunks of published setting. And if he's going to have to rewrite large chunks of the setting material, why bother using the published setting?
Nobody seems to have a problem that the plot of Runelords is spoiled through all post-2008ish Paizo content. The core rulebook itself, among others, give away parts of it simply in pictures. It took my players all of 2-3 sessions to figure out half the Runelords plot without even trying and this was with me warning that certain sites (like the Pathfinder wiki) give away the entire plot so they are to be avoided. According to your first piece I quoted, doesn't this mean my players won't be able to separate what they know emotionally from their characters and the campaign is now ruined?
I don't want to put words in Paizo's mouths, but I believe Runelords and Karzoug in particular is fair game to talk about because Runelords officially happened two years before modern day Golarion. If an adventure path, the most popular one from what I can tell, is fair game for partially spoiling in so many Pathfinder supplements, why is a fact that has no adventure path or module associated with it such a guarded secret?
As an addendum, even though nobody has brought it up, I understand why authors and screenwriters like to leave mysteries unexplained in their stories. In fact, I love those stories. Golarion, for me, is not a piece of fiction. It is a tool for me to use as a GM. The more useful that tool is (the more published material), the better.
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So what of all the solved mysteries we have in Golarion? Is that all ruined content?
"Ruined content" and "ruined mysteries" are not the same thing. You can still have fun in a game with no mystery; what you can't have is a mystery.
That you want the game setting to have no actual mystery as to what happened to Aroden is a perfectly valid choice in setting design. My point is that it's a direct trade-off; your desire can only be satisfied at the expense of those who want it to be a mystery, just as they can only be satisfied at your expense.
It's natural, of course that you want the setting to reflect your preferences. But a divergence between what you want and what Paizo does is not an indication that Paizo is doing things wrong. Nor is there any logical principle that demands that a setting be either zero-mystery or all-mystery. Every position from "a blank piece of paper where the GM can decide everything" and canon-on-everything is a logically valid choice for setting design, subject in practice only to the demand of the market.
Mysteries are the most important thing that keeps people interested in a fantasy world, even after it dies. Gives the GMs freedom to connect the dots between seemingly unrelated elements of the setting. It's an enjoyable experience to weave complex stories and plots from the mysteries.
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He could also be trapped within the eye itself
The enraged spirits of the tens of thousands of Azlanti who died when the stones fell from the sky and sank their civilization overwhelmed Pharasma, and ended up combining into a chaotic maddened force of destruction, which threatened to overturn universal balance and cause the dead to rise en masse, maddened by rage, confusion and frustration, by the insane Azlanti souls fueling their unnatural resurrection.
This disaster was halted (and the rise of Tar-Baphon was but a symptom of this potential plague of undeath and upset in the fragile balance between life and death itself!), but it stewed in its prison, and only the Last Azlanti had a powerful enough connection to the mad entity that had formed from 10,000 enraged Azlanti souls to bind himself to it and drag it into a remote place, where the forces of nature, under the command of Gozreh, Desna and others, formed the Eye of Abendago to contain Aroden and the mad entity, locked in eternal embrace, as 'the Last Azlanti' finally joined the rest of his people in oblivion.
The souls of lost Azlant have reclaimed their wayward son, and lie within the Eye of Abendago, not testing the bonds of their prison, their rage abated, and at rest, for now, having been 'completed' and made whole in the arms of the 'last' Azlanti.
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Don't forget the world-wound which is also related to the death of Aroden or at least happened at the same time. It has not avoided my notice that the two phenomina appear to be literal "polar opposites" of each other with one in the north and one in the south. Do they draw a line between them to Rovagugs prison? Inquiring minds want to know.
I like to think that Arodens "death" isnt a true death that he will rise to Divinity again at the start of a new age, as Humanities greatest achievement is to overcome the challenge that they are now facing. The failing of the prophecy is the first part to the great achievement.
So what of all the solved mysteries we have in Golarion? Is that all ruined content?"Ruined content" and "ruined mysteries" are not the same thing. You can still have fun in a game with no mystery; what you can't have is a mystery.
And any GM can add mystery to any adventure. Most published adventures have mysteries built into them, mysteries that make sense because a player may be solving them.
That you want the game setting to have no actual mystery as to what happened to Aroden is a perfectly valid choice in setting design. My point is that it's a direct trade-off; your desire can only be satisfied at the expense of those who want it to be a mystery, just as they can only be satisfied at your expense.
I don't see it as an expense. And if others do, I feel sorry for them because every time Paizo publishes more campaign setting material they are solving mysteries big and small, apparently at the expense of their fans.
It's natural, of course that you want the setting to reflect your preferences. But a divergence between what you want and what Paizo does is not an indication that Paizo is doing things wrong. Nor is there any logical principle that demands that a setting be either zero-mystery or all-mystery. Every position from "a blank piece of paper where the GM can decide everything" and canon-on-everything is a logically valid choice for setting design, subject in practice only to the demand of the market.
I don't want zero mystery. A lot of the little mysteries all over the world are nice for flavor. They are likely to bear almost no relevance to any campaign and thus are fun and nice to have. Aroden is a pivotal figure of the world and many GMs may be tempted to include him in their campaign world. Keeping his life and death a mystery does not serve to help players.
As for the demands of the market, you won't hear others like me expressing this opinion. Why? Many GMs will be playing off of published material and none give Aroden even the hint of relevance that I have seen. Those that prefer to craft their own story lines may be tempted as I said, but will likely avoid anything to do with Aroden due to the dearth of information about him. I did not avoid him, thus my frustration.
Anyway, I'm sure after this post you're all sick of me so I'll leave the dead horse alone. I just wanted to plant the seed of doubt about why this one mystery is worth keeping while so many others are revealed every month in new campaign setting and AP material.
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Butler in the Conservatory, with the Candlestick.
(Yes, I'm a bit late, but I had to...)
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Quite honestly, I'm going to steal a couple line from "The Last Samurai" here to indicate what I'd like:
EMPEROR: Tell me how he died.
NATHAN: I'll tell you how he lived.
Aroden's death is a well-kept secret, and while I love the mystery of the event, the not knowing has little effect on my character concepts because they wouldn't know either. However, that Aroden lived is definitive fact, and his influence on the past of Golarion is stamped throughout that world. Plus, his death is only 100 years off! So much about his faith should still be remembered, even if only by those few who still practice it, such as in Andoran, where it's said that those still exist in earnest. Not knowing jack about this except the occasional piece spread here and there does effect character concepts for the world, because those who wish to know should be able to, and the world at large should have those answers readily available for the player.
I understand that Aroden is the past, and the Paizo goal has always been to concentrate on the present, but his faith isn't the distant past, and its repercussions are still very much alive in the present. I'd love to see more information available for the faith of Aroden. I have a character in an upcoming game who will be a follower of it, and I find it distressing a bit that I'll have to essentially make up an entire religion that dominated the face of the Inner Sea (especially the north) for thousands of years because so little is printed about it (that I've found).
every time Paizo publishes more campaign setting material they are solving mysteries big and small
Which is precisely why people who like having mysteries want there to be blanks that explicitly won't be filled, as opposed to merely blanks that haven't been filled yet.
A lot of the little mysteries all over the world are nice for flavor. They are likely to bear almost no relevance to any campaign and thus are fun and nice to have.
While some people think big mysteries that are of relevance are fun and nice to have in their campaigns. You want there to be none of those. Those people and you cannot be simultaneously equally satisfied by any published setting.
Quite honestly, I'm going to steal a couple line from "The Last Samurai" here to indicate what I'd like:
EMPEROR: Tell me how he died.
NATHAN: I'll tell you how he lived.
Aroden's death is a well-kept secret, and while I love the mystery of the event, the not knowing has little effect on my character concepts because they wouldn't know either. However, that Aroden lived is definitive fact, and his influence on the past of Golarion is stamped throughout that world. Plus, his death is only 100 years off! So much about his faith should still be remembered, even if only by those few who still practice it, such as in Andoran, where it's said that those still exist in earnest. Not knowing jack about this except the occasional piece spread here and there does effect character concepts for the world, because those who wish to know should be able to, and the world at large should have those answers readily available for the player.
I understand that Aroden is the past, and the Paizo goal has always been to concentrate on the present, but his faith isn't the distant past, and its repercussions are still very much alive in the present. I'd love to see more information available for the faith of Aroden. I have a character in an upcoming game who will be a follower of it, and I find it distressing a bit that I'll have to essentially make up an entire religion that dominated the face of the Inner Sea (especially the north) for thousands of years because so little is printed about it (that I've found).
The humans of golarion book covers arodens faith in detail
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And any GM can add mystery to any adventure. Most published adventures have mysteries built into them, mysteries that make sense because a player may be solving them.
Nothing prevents your players from solving the mystery of Aroden's death. The only difference is that three different groups that solve this mystery under three different GMs are likely to find three completely different answers. The beauty of Paizo saying that there will never be an official answer for why he died is that none of those three groups, having solved the mystery of his death, and found three different answers, will end up contradicting future Pathfinder releases. And new people who join their group won't come in with an assumption that Aroden died of X, when their campaign showed that he died of Y.
The beauty of Paizo saying that there will never be an official answer for why he died is that none of those three groups, having solved the mystery of his death, and found three different answers, will end up contradicting future Pathfinder releases. And new people who join their group won't come in with an assumption that Aroden died of X, when their campaign showed that he died of Y.
This has already happened in my campaign with other topics. It will continue to happen as new material is published. Every decision I make for my campaign has the potential for conflicting with future releases. That's the risk you take by playing through home brew material. My campaign has a dragonborn paladin of Apsu and Apsu is unhappy with Aroden's demise. Dragonborn existing and Apsu having any involvement with anything at all contradicts Paizo (for now?).
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It was an orangutan. Once they have you by the leg, it's all over.
Shouldn't have called him a monkey. They don't like that.
The humans of golarion book covers arodens faith in detail
You, sir, just gave Paizo an instant sale on that book from me. I thank you! =)
Butler in the Conservatory, with the Candlestick.
(Yes, I'm a bit late, but I had to...)
Sorry, but the cards indicate it was Mrs. Scarlet. Good guess, though! You almost beat me! If you'd just had the patience to wait one more turn...
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Aroden got in a drinking contest with Cayden. About 20 days into it he said "Cayden, hold me beer, I'm gonna do somefin AWESHOME"... he's not dead so much as passed out in a stupor somewhere in the middle of the Eye of Ebendigo (sp?). Cayden is trying to be cool about it and just shrugs when anyone asks him about it. This is why Cayden is always pictured with a mug in his hand, he's still holding Aroden's beer for him.
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Aroden got in a drinking contest with Cayden. About 20 days into it he said "Cayden, hold me beer, I'm gonna do somefin AWESHOME"... he's not dead so much as passed out in a stupor somewhere in the middle of the Eye of Ebendigo (sp?). Cayden is trying to be cool about it and just shrugs when anyone asks him about it. This is why Cayden is always pictured with a mug in his hand, he's still holding Aroden's beer for him.
This is it! the best answer for Aroden's disappearance yet.
Aroden's death rendered prophecies invalid. That would include the one that everything dies (and are eventually judged by Pharsma). Mortals have become gods. Now with Aroden's death there is a new possibility; for humanity to become greater than the gods. Mortals can now ascend far beyond petty godhood. They shall become beings for whom the difference between them and the gods is far more vast than that between gods and mortals.
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For Aroden to return. First he had to be away.
A god is truely not away if his preists still get hteir spells and powers.
So for Aroden to "Return" he had to set it up so he would not be "present" for a while. Unfortunately, something went wrong.
I'm pretty sure all of the campaign materials say his priests don't get spells.
Aroden got in a drinking contest with Cayden. About 20 days into it he said "Cayden, hold me beer, I'm gonna do somefin AWESHOME"... he's not dead so much as passed out in a stupor somewhere in the middle of the Eye of Ebendigo (sp?). Cayden is trying to be cool about it and just shrugs when anyone asks him about it. This is why Cayden is always pictured with a mug in his hand, he's still holding Aroden's beer for him.
And we have a winner... Good show!
I'm pretty sure all of the campaign materials say his priests don't get spells.For Aroden to return. First he had to be away.
A god is truely not away if his preists still get hteir spells and powers.
So for Aroden to "Return" he had to set it up so he would not be "present" for a while. Unfortunately, something went wrong.
With a hangover like this he has no mind for this. Or maybe his cell phone is out of range within the Eye...
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I'm pretty sure all of the campaign materials say his priests don't get spells.For Aroden to return. First he had to be away.
A god is truely not away if his preists still get hteir spells and powers.
So for Aroden to "Return" he had to set it up so he would not be "present" for a while. Unfortunately, something went wrong.
I think he was saying that the plan was Aroden goes away (clerics lose spells, etc) then he planned to come back in a big way. Something went wrong.
The mystery isn't 'is Aroden dead' (we've had that confirmed) the mystery is 'what killed him?'
One of my theories.
Spoiler:Aroden realized, as a god of prophesy, that if there was a 'god of humanity' humanity would be subject to stagnation. So he did 'something' that killed him, depriving humanity of a patron deity and consequently shattering the future. In doing so, he 'uncapped' the potential of humanity. Unlike other 'racial deities' he was still able to think like a member of that race, not just as a god. That's how he was able to make that choice. Now if this was a ritualized suicide or a Xanatos Pile-up I've not decided.
This reminds me of one of the plot points of certain very popular and very influential SF series. The one with desert planet and spice. No, not the Star Wars!
** spoiler omitted **This reminds me of one of the plot points of certain very popular and very influential SF series. The one with desert planet and spice. No, not the Star Wars!
P1: Hey, he can make the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs...
P2: Isn't a "parsec" a unit of dista-P1: BLAH-BLAH-BLAH! Shut up. Let's go.
(But yes, and, hey, "god-emporer" sounds a lot like "god-king", the latter of which is, in fact, in canon.)
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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** spoiler omitted **This reminds me of one of the plot points of certain very popular and very influential SF series. The one with desert planet and spice. No, not the Star Wars!
It's been years since I read that (loved the miniseries on sci-fi, got the unedited DVDs) and I didn't think of the similarities.
There was a plot in Marvel Comics, that the entire 'Galactic Storm' arc in Avengers was designed by the Supreme Intelligence to nuke the Kree, as the radiation and other disasters would 'kick start' the Kree DNA, allowing them to mutate and further evolve, increasing the odds of their survival as a species. I guess it's akin to that too. :-)
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Milani, previously a 'minor saint' in the Church of Aroden led a revolt against him. That's how she aquired full divinity. It certainly explains why a CG being would be in the service of a LN god. It also explains why Iomedae refers to Milani as her 'sister', for they are both 'inheritors', only Iomedaes' status is more obvious.
Her ongoing revolt is ultimately a revolt against prophecy; the one in which Aroden would return to Golorian and lead humanity in a golden age certainly but ultimately targeted at the prophecy that Asmodeus will eventually control everything.
Had things gone as planned, Aroden would create the golden age, but in time it would dim, and gradually Asmodeus would creep into the picture and corrupt everything.....and people would only react after it was too late.
Milani prevented that.
As it is now, Asmodeus and his agenda are out in the open, grinding people under his heal, creating resentment and resistance, which will eventually result in a bloody revolt which may or may not bring down Asmodeus himself.