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So my Chelaxian mercenary just hit 2 PA, and I was wondering about the feasibility of using a wand of Infernal Healing in place of the standard wand of Cure Light Wounds. The character is a barbarian with no means of using his own wands.
Infernal Healing advantages:
* Sorcerers, Wizards, Magus and Summoners can use with with no UMD check.
* Guaranteed 10 healing.
Disadvantages:
* Paladins, Rangers and Alchemists cannot use.
* Takes 1 minute for full effect.
It also has the [evil] tag and causes you to detect as evil for 1 minute, but my CN Chelaxian character simply doesn't care.
So, would a wand of Infernal Healing be a workable, perhaps even superior option for out-of-combat healing for a character who doesn't care too much about the morality of the spell?
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How do the Magus and Summoner get access to it with no UMD? Is it repeated in a newer source where it's added to those spell lists?
Edit: NM, Found it in ISWG. I didn't realize it got added to those classes spell lists. I'll have to poke through that book again to see what other spells might have been updated to include APG classes.
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So my Chelaxian mercenary just hit 2 PA, and I was wondering about the feasibility of using a wand of Infernal Healing in place of the standard wand of Cure Light Wounds. The character is a barbarian with no means of using his own wands.
Infernal Healing advantages:
* Sorcerers, Wizards, Magus and Summoners can use with with no UMD check.
* Guaranteed 10 healing.Disadvantages:
* Paladins, Rangers and Alchemists cannot use.
* Takes 1 minute for full effect.It also has the [evil] tag and causes you to detect as evil for 1 minute, but my CN Chelaxian character simply doesn't care.
So, would a wand of Infernal Healing be a workable, perhaps even superior option for out-of-combat healing for a character who doesn't care too much about the morality of the spell?
It's an amazing spell. I'm really surprised it's legal in PFS since it's Evil and repeated use of it should turn the character evil in the future.
I absolutely would use it if you can. And I do :)
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It's an amazing spell. I'm really surprised it's legal in PFS since it's Evil and repeated use of it should turn the character evil in the future.
I absolutely would use it if you can. And I do :)
I see this stated by people all of the time, but why would casting a spell with the Evil descriptor change any characters alignment to evil any more than casting spells with the Law/Chaos/Good descriptors would alter their alignment.
Back on topic, I like idea of the wand, especially the guaranteed 10 points of healing. Not a wand for use during combat though.
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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The spell is awesome for out of combat healing. You may run into morality issues with other players, of course, regardless of possible issues finding a class who can activate it.
I'm more fascinated by this part:
my...Chelaxian...barbarian...CN...character
Will Chelaxian faction heads even give you the time of day, much less a wand, for your 2 PA?
They will, of course; I'm being purely rhetorical. But, I want to see the back story for this guy...
Do you need to carry 50 doses of devil blood seperately, or does the wand splurt some on you when it's activated?
The material components are subsumed with the creation of the item. You don't need to carry the around. Or if you have Eschew materials you don't even need that. But basically since it has no GP cost it's a handwave. Esoteric as it sounds demon blood comes standard in Component poutches. I imagine there's a merchant somewhere who has a couple of imps (Or whatever) strapped to a wall with tubes coming out of their necks that drains blood into a bowl below the devil's feet. Frankly Tiefling blood would probably work. No one said it had to be a pit fiend's blood.
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It's definitely more efficient than a CLW wand, but has the following drawbacks.
1) It makes you glow icky evil for a minute. :) Some characters may have a problem with that, not so much for others. No long term effects... but still. :)
2) Like someone else said, my happy stick has been useful in-combat in desperate times, this wouldn't be very useful.
Having said that, it's on more class spell lists, whether they have UMD or not, so it's a more versatile spell.
You don't need devil blood to create the wand, unholy water will do. It's not like you need the blood of a child.
Maybe it's a good idea is to carry one of each wand, if you want to be more efficient.
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I've had one of these wands for a long time on my Asmodeus worshiping Wizard (Inner Sea World Guide seems to have dropped the worship requirement) and I've always described it as:
A Severed Demon's Claw, dripping with blood. It's quite popular among the Chaotic Neutral types but strangely enough every paladin I've encountered with that character has refused to let him use it on them.
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As a Cleric of Asmodeus I have one of these wands and I have found the wand to be very useful. This wand allows me to honor the "letter" of my clerical obligation to heal, with out having to expend my valuable resources because most people turn down the offer of Infernal Healing.
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As a Cleric of Asmodeus I have one of these wands and I have found the wand to be very useful. This wand allows me to honor the "letter" of my clerical obligation to heal, with out having to expend my valuable resources because most people turn down the offer of Infernal Healing.
If for no other reason than homage, my next character has to be a Chelaxian aristocrat with Profession (rules lawyer).
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While playing Iago Isildur in a Pathfinder Society game at George Mason University in Virginia last September, one of the other players turned to me and asked me, “What kind of law do you practice? “ I’m not sure what my exact answer was but I think it went something like “ Oh I’m not a lawyer but I play one in D&D”
My character Iago for skills has (he is a cleric)
Bluff (thank you trickery domain) Diplomacy, Knowledge: Religion Linguistics, Profession Barrister, and Sense motive.
I decided I wanted to experiment with a negative energy channeler and I thought I could have my cake and eat it too, by healing the party with a wand of cure light wounds. After my character burned through a wand of cure light wounds in 4 adventures. I realized my character could not charge 15 gold pieces per healing charge, (players can’t pass pas each other gold) nor could my character afford to heal the party, burning through wands at that rate I decided to go the wand of “infernal Healing” rout
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Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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I wonder about the need for either 1 drop of devil blood or 1 dose of unholy water. If I am understanding the rules correctly, the unholy water would require 25 GPs as a spell component for each casting. Not sure how much 1 drop of devil's blood is going for? So wouldn't a wand of Infernal Healing cost 750 GP + 25 times 50 = 1250 GP for a total of 2000 GPs?
I just see it as power creep.
A wand of Lesser Vigor cost 750 in 3.5 and had the same healing effect.
Frankly, I'd prefer that Lesser Vigor and its sister spells be introduced rather than this abortion.
This is IMHO a dark side of Pathfinder which I do not enjoy and find repulsive.
It has been said elsewhere that 1 dose does not mean 1 flask of unholy water. Since it wasn't something like "flask of unholy water worth 25 gp" there is no cost associated with it, so its part of a spell component pouch.
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I wonder about the need for either 1 drop of devil blood or 1 dose of unholy water. If I am understanding the rules correctly, the unholy water would require 25 GPs as a spell component for each casting. Not sure how much 1 drop of devil's blood is going for? So wouldn't a wand of Infernal Healing cost 750 GP + 25 times 50 = 1250 GP for a total of 2000 GPs?
I just see it as power creep.
A wand of Lesser Vigor cost 750 in 3.5 and had the same healing effect.
Frankly, I'd prefer that Lesser Vigor and its sister spells be introduced rather than this abortion.
This is IMHO a dark side of Pathfinder which I do not enjoy and find repulsive.
Yeesh.
First of all, the devil's blood has no cost, so it's in a spell component pouch. Since it's in a spell component pouch, the wand is a standard 750 gp. Secondly, healing out of combat is pretty much never power creep, and that's really all this spell allows.
Pathfinder Society, as a neutral entity, is fully capable of making use of evil spells. You may find it repulsive, but I find your other word choice (see my bold) to be slightly overbearing.
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Contributor
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It gives Fast Healing 1 for a minute, so why wouldn't it heal that those types of damage?
The description of the spell at p. 295 of The Inner Sea World Guide specifically disallows healing of damage from those sources.
To speak to something else upthread, the description also specifically says that there are no long-term effects on alignment for targets of the spell.
It doesn't say the same about those who cast the spell, and thus by extension about those who use or create wands, scrolls, or potions of the spell.
"Evil" is the spell's bracketed "descriptor," and, like it or not, according to p. 212 of The Core Rulebook "[m]ost of these descriptors have no game effect by themselves," though they do "govern how the spell interacts with...alignment..." whatever that means.
It's an interesting question. In a home campaign I'd say casting the spell was an evil act, but I don't think the rules support saying that in organized play.
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Several people keep saying Demons blood for the component. Mostly it seems like everyone knows it's Devils blood - but even some who should know (as they say they are using the spell) seem to be missing the Knowledge Planes checks.
Devils are different creatures from Demons.
(slinking back to my dark corner now)
Make has said in the past that casting Evil spells in itself has no affect on alignment, though the reason for casting said spells might (if cast to torture someone or something similar).
As a note to players, this is a campaign houserule and is different from the core rules.
Also note that its fast healing 1 for 10 rounds, not just a flat +10 hp. which is fine outside of combat, but inside.. not so much.
Check the FaQ for PFS.... casting evil spells do not change your alignment. It is the WAY the spell is used that can effect your alignment.
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Also note that its fast healing 1 for 10 rounds, not just a flat +10 hp. which is fine outside of combat, but inside.. not so much.Check the FaQ for PFS.... casting evil spells do not change your alignment. It is the WAY the spell is used that can effect your alignment.
I don't know what you thought he was saying, but he wasn't making a comment on the morality. He was saying that 10 hp over 10 rounds won't save you in the middle of combat when you're being hit for 10 hp a round.
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I've had one of these wands for a long time on my Asmodeus worshiping Wizard (Inner Sea World Guide seems to have dropped the worship requirement) and I've always described it as:
A Severed Demon's Claw, dripping with blood. It's quite popular among the Chaotic Neutral types but strangely enough every paladin I've encountered with that character has refused to let him use it on them.
My CN tiefling summoner just pricks her own finger and uses the blood.
As for paladins, the last time one fell down in front of me I forgot to ask permission before healing him.
(While she was born a Chelaxian princess, differences in world view have resulted in her unfortunate exclusion from Chelaxian high society. Something about a complete disregard of the rules. She's having much more fun with the Grand Lodge anyways.)
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Make has said in the past that casting Evil spells in itself has no affect on alignment, though the reason for casting said spells might (if cast to torture someone or something similar).As a note to players, this is a campaign houserule and is different from the core rules.
If this weren't a house rule in PFS, I'd just have my sorcerer keep an account book:
"Debts" to heaven="Number of times I used my Infernal Healing wand""Assets" = Number of times I've cast "Protection from Evil [good]"
and make sure the assets outnumber the debts. (In other words, it's a sensible house rule).
Not that it's a bad house rule in my opinion.
This. +1
Make has said in the past that casting Evil spells in itself has no affect on alignment, though the reason for casting said spells might (if cast to torture someone or something similar).As a note to players, this is a campaign houserule and is different from the core rules.If this weren't a house rule in PFS, I'd just have my sorcerer keep an account book:
"Debts" to heaven="Number of times I used my Infernal Healing wand"
"Assets" = Number of times I've cast "Protection from Evil [good]"
and make sure the assets outnumber the debts. (In other words, it's a sensible house rule).
Not that it's a bad house rule in my opinion.This. +1
So just make sure you burn through the same number of Protection from evil wands as Infernal Healing wands?
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So just make sure you burn through the same number of Protection from evil wands as Infernal Healing wands?Make has said in the past that casting Evil spells in itself has no affect on alignment, though the reason for casting said spells might (if cast to torture someone or something similar).As a note to players, this is a campaign houserule and is different from the core rules.If this weren't a house rule in PFS, I'd just have my sorcerer keep an account book:
"Debts" to heaven="Number of times I used my Infernal Healing wand"
"Assets" = Number of times I've cast "Protection from Evil [good]"
and make sure the assets outnumber the debts. (In other words, it's a sensible house rule).
Not that it's a bad house rule in my opinion.This. +1
Nah, just after the adventure is over memorize it from my spellbook and cast it on myself every [caster level] minutes until I've made up for infernal healings. This is down-time spell use.
"Playing the game" at it's finest ;)
So basically, just ignore it and say you make amends in your downtime?
I would like to point out to people that infernal healing is a 1 round cast time, like the summon monster line.
Emphasis mine.
This bears repeating, many players and GMs don't understand or remember that wands can sometimes have casting times longer than a standard action.
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If someone who is "neutral" on the good-evil axis of alignment is (or can be) about "balance" between good and evil, then someone who is on the "good" side is (or can be) about making sure the good outweighs the evil.
Story-wise, a "good" person who casts a healing spell (whether [evil] or just conjuration [healing]) to keep torturing a prisoner "for the greater good" is, in my opinion, a LOT more evil than someone who uses an [evil] spell to heal orphans.
As for
So basically, just ignore it and say you make amends in your downtime?
it depends on the game; in PFS certainly you can do exactly that: there is an indeterminate amount of time between adventures during which I can memorize and cast Prot: Evil as many times as I want. In a home game I'm playing in, I can't do that because (at least thus far) "down time" has been marked by: goblin attacks at night, wandering scorpions, hunting for food, making camp, etc. so using a spell slot just to counteract the alignment change of casting an [evil] spell has not been a viable solution. That said, I refer you back to the previous paragraph regarding keeping track of which types of spells you cast: have you ever met a GM that made you become lawful because you cast Protection from Chaos too often (or even kept track of anything but [evil] spells)? I certainly haven't; the people I have played with watch what you do with the spell.
Unfortunately the nature of message boards requires the repeat beating of horses for those that missed the first exhibition.
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Perhaps it's me. But if I beat a man to death with a sacred chalice, I think I drift toward evil. I think if I heal a man with an evil spell, I drift toward good. I think it's my intention that defines me, not some outside power's declaration of my ordained role.
For me, that 'evil' descriptor empowers the 'detect as evil for one minute', which I see as the second power of the wand. Antipaladin inbound? Let's hope it's still running when he smites. Identified that artifact, and it will fry anyone who touches it except an evil cleric? Got it covered.
You say you've got a tradition that all hammers are blunt on both sides, and I say more power to you. I've got a hammer with a spike on one side. Let's go kill some badguys.
The spell does not actually turn you evil, so an antipaladin's smite won't be stopped, and nor will the artifact not-fry you unless you're actually evil. That portion is just for the detect family of spells, and similar effects.