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Yes and No
With what you can change not realy. There are limits in what you can do with the character you made. Starting with stats and going from there to skills. To optimize him more he needs a rewright.
Character:
1: Ninjas are not assassin for the most part there information brokers. That is why they where so feard in Japan.
2: If you want to make a effective assassin. You need to build it from the ground up. Including skills, feats, and ability scores.
3: What you have is fine there is realy not a way to optimize the character more from this point on.
4: Diping Figher 1 or Barbarian 1 are the only two good options right now. Ranger is a bad option becous when you split range levels you want 6 ranger levels and every thing else in rogue or prc.
If you want help with makeing a charater. The more back ground on what you want it to do the better people can help you. The full stat block is needed as well so we can see where you are trying to take the charater.
Taking a Dip in ranger is a good idea, but I would suggest only 1 level and with that ranger level that you also take the Trapper Archetype. Ninja's cannot find traps, but a 1st level Trapper Ranger can.
If you can rearrange your stats then I suggest that you make your Cha your highest stat. From what I have read of other people's accounts and from building my own ninja, you will need a lot of ki. This is especially true because where a ninja shines is in his abilities to do his tricks. Vanishing Trick is supposedly the bread and butter of the ninja and it is no surprise why and if you get invisible blade then that two weapon fighting will really pay off.
If you don't want to focus on tricks then I would suggest that you pick mostly tricks that do not have a cost and are always active.
My current Ninja is a Holy Assassin in which I took a dip of inquisitor with the heretic archetype (UM) which has some good synergy with ninja skills and abilities. I actually get a quite a lot of bonuses because of that synergy (I hate that word). Plus it is handy to have some spell casting ability. However, with your stats I wouldn't recommend that build.
Right now,I am being allowed to rebuild my character from the ground up.These scores are not yet set.
@Calagnar:I know they weren't assassins :P but for this version they are.
@ItoSaithWebb:Hmm,I COULD put another point in Cha,but I really dont want an 18,19,or even 20 in it-that eats up too many points for me.Also,can you tell me what the pros and cons are versus taking dips in certain classes?
Well, I think that it is a good point that Calagnar brought up that it is helpful to state what kind of build you are going for. That way you can get more direct advice.
For Dipping into other classes, I would warn not to go overboard because many class abilities are level dependent and each dip reduces the effectiveness of your main class's abilities.
1 Level Dip of Ranger (archetype Trapper): For raw stats you will get a increase to your BAB now matter what but you will also get a +2 to two of your saving throws which is always good, which I believe is Ref and Fort but I could be wrong. You will also get a bonus to tracking, get a favored enemy, and if you take the Trapper Archetype then you will also get free of charge trapfinding which is important as ninjas do not get this class feature. Odds are you will be your group's trap disabler but if you don't have that ability then you are out of luck. Lastly, a dip will give you extra class skills and good skill points.
Dips in Fighter: This is not a bad option either but only at later levels. You will have a better BAB, good Fort saves (but bad everything else saves) and you get a lot of combat feats which is quite a big list. However, this is only effective if you plan not to sneak attack often. Ninjas, like rogues, are very level dependent for good sneak attack damage. You will get a few more class skills but not as much as the Ranger.
1 or 2Level Dip of Inquisitor (archetype Heretic): The archetype Heretic from UM screams ninja for synergy because you can added your Wis bonus, if any, in addition to the normal ability modifiers to both Stealth and Bluff. If you take 2 dips then you will also be able to add your Wis modifier in addition to your Dex modifier to your initiative. With 1 dip of inquisitor you get +2 to both your Fort and Will saves, get a daily judgement, and stern gaze gives a bonus to intimidate and sense motive. You also get a lot of class skills you would not normally get otherwise, some spell casting and cool dashing red uniform with a large billed hat. . . whoops sorry about that. A second level will also add to your tracking ability for the survival skill and your skill points will be nice as well. The only down side to a 1 level dip that I see is that your BAB will be 1 lower.
My assassin is a 1 Inquisitor(Heretic)/5 Ninja currently. Aasimar Race.
11, 16, 15, 13, 17, 20
AC 21Fort 7, Ref 9, Will 8
Total Ki 9
BAB +5 but with only a -2 when TWF.30 Class Skills all with at least 1 rank with an average total score of 8.
Bluff (1 rank only) with a total score of 12
Diplomacy (1 rank only) with a total score of 11
Disable Device (6 ranks) with a total score of 14
Perception (6 ranks) with a total score of 14
Stealth (6 ranks) with a total score of 15Ninja tricks, Rogue Trick: TWF and Vanishing trick
Feats: TWF, Weapon Finesse (rogue talent), extra ki, and combat reflexes
Mage Armor and Shield items (constant)
+1 Sai,+1 Kama, and +1Wakisashi
+2 Cloak of Resistance.
1 or 2Level Dip of Barbarian This is not to bad because you will get a +2 to +3 to Fort saves but nothing else and you will have a better BAB. The Fast Movement is a nice touch making the ninja fast and at level 2 uncanny dodge but Ninja's get that already, however when your Ninja gets uncanny dodge this stacks into improved uncanny dodge much faster than without taking that level. You are not getting much in class skills and your skill points will be lower.
All other classes I have not yet looked into yet. Hope that helps.
On a separate note: If you are using point buy I would not recommend getting 18 scores as this will just eat up your points. Instead go with 17 16 and and level everything else out to get bonuses. Rolling for stats can often get better results however. My GM allows us to re-roll ones which I know a lot of GM do because 1's just such. He also allows you to re-roll again but minus 3 HP each time you do.
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Human Ninja
Str 14
Dex 17
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 14
Skills: Acrobatics(8), Bluff(7), Diplomacy(7), Disable Device(8), Disquise(7), Perception(4), Slight of Hand(8), Stealth(8), Linguistics(5)
Feats: Weapon Finesses, Two Weapon Fighting.
Traits: Nonchalant Thuggery, Dirty Fighter
Abilitys: Poison Use, Sneak Attack 1D6, Ki Pool 2/day, Ninja Trick: Fast Stealth.
Feats:
3: Double Slice
5: Combat Reflexes
7: Step Up
9: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
11: Improved Critical Wakizashi
Ninja Tricks:
4: Darkvision
6: Weapon Traning Wakizashi
8: Rogue Talent: Powerful Sneak
10: Rogue Talent: Deadly Sneak
12: Evasion
If I was going to make a ninja type assassin. Ninja assassin dose not strike from the shadows. He talks to you gets to know you drinks with you. Then after you feal safe kills you. And leaves the same way they came in the front door with no one the wiser for him being there. Leaves and removes the disquise and puts on a new one.
Well well. We go with the 3 out of 4 dice system, its better results most times fo me at last.
Whatever historic options were, in this games you have 3 actually:
-sneak/invisibility
-bluff
-disguise/sudden disguise
luckily you can use all 3 most of the time, especialy with high DEX and CHA. The only thing you need to decide is if you want to take the ninja tricks which enhance it. In generell i think its the disguise line with assasinate what is the true assasination type. Else there is vanish and invisible blade what can of course be combined with assasinate. Sneak is a good rely option there to counter counterinvisibility, where things like hellcat stealth, skill focus sneak and smoke bombs help a great deal. For the typical party ninja the team feat for better flanking is nice too if you have someone else taking it too.
Your build seems fine so far calagnar. Only im not sure with Improved critical, i guess the damage is not going to be big, so maybe you want to save the feat for something else.Pressure points could be nice for you ie.
In my ninja build i put everything into DEX, CHA, INT and play a halfling.
Feats are Skill Focus Stealth and Hellcat Stealth.
Tricks Vanish, Forgotten Trick, Pressure points, smoke bombs and flurry of stars. As a halfling i took one level in Swashbuckler, a non corebook class that gives you 6 skillpoints, evade (+1 dodge bonus) and weapon finesse on first level along with martial weapons proficiency, so i got the halfling slingstick. Of course its ranged combat and not TWF.
In your case i wouldnt dip into another class eventually, instead take shadow clones and vanish and later invisible blade. And you should get two subtle swords( either take sword short focus then or ask DM to rule them as wakizashi)
do we have the ninjs class break down? somewhere?
Yes the swashbuckler is from a 3PP, so you wont be allowed to take it in PFS. Im sorry i overread that.
From my experience with rogues and ninjas so far, i would put all point buy in DEX, CHA, INT in this line. You cant afford to become the center of enemy attention too long, so better play the hit and run card.
Smoke bombs can be a good crowd control too, you can enhance it with staggering bombs or poison bomb via forgotten trick. Thats why you want a high CHA for a lot of Ki Points, it also sets the DC of the ninja abilities like assasinate.
If this is what you mean by class breakdown,here is the link to the free PDF:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/v5748btpy8igw&source=search
the ninja looks fricking sweet if i may say so myself.
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I don't recomend droping Con. You are lower hp to start you need the bonus HP. But what ever it's your charater and you can roll a new one. The low Wis score hurts, but not as bad as the drop in HP will. It's hase been my experance that low HP rogues die alot. That's why my dwarf rogue hase a Con 16 and toughnes. And a side note hase more HP then the fighter in the group.
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HP: Level 12
Con 10 HP 60 Toughness 72
Con 12 HP 72 Toughness 84
Con 14 HP 84 Toughness 96
Con 16 HP 96 Toughness 108
CR 10 (Level -2 CR should be easy to fighting for the group.)
Rakshasa : This is not a melee heavy monster.
Melee +1 kukri +16/+11 (1d4+4/15–20), claw +10 (1d4+1), bite +10 (1d6+1) Total damage 3D4+1D6+10 14-28 so Con 10 you last 2-4 rounds Con 14 you last 3-5. Toughness or Con Mod. adds +.5 rounds.
Fire Giant: melee heavy monster.
Melee greatsword +21/+16/+11 (3d6+15) or 2 slams +20 (1d8+10) Total damage 9D6+45 54-99 So Con 10 you last 0-1 rounds. Con 14 you last 0-1 rounds. The chances you live past the first round are much greater for the Con 14 then the Con 10. In PFS play my Dwarf Rogue Con 16 Toughness HP 108 1-2 rounds.
You can have all the abilitys you want. The fact is. When your out of HP they don't count.
Calagnar has a point, but i normally take only 12 CON too and survived everythng so far.
That is thanked to high INT and high skills. You don´t want to miss your acrobatics, bluff, diplomacy or sneak at the right time. Don´t forget escape artist!
Of course if the inquisitor archetype Heretic gives you boni there in other ways you can go that way. Just take a look that you increasy survivability somehow and its always better to have a plan b, meaning more than one possibility to react to different threats.
Oh and you might want alchemy skill as well to create some poison yourself, if that is allowed in PFS.
i would suggest replacing your array with the following
Human Ninja
Strength 13
Dexterity 16 (14+2)
Constitution 14
Intellegence 10
Wisdom 12
Charisma 14
yes you lose 1 Ki point you could have had, but you vomit them so fast that you won't really notice it
but you get more hit points which will be greatly appreciated later
and the extra strength means you can carry more gear and have the option to take power attack if you desire.
i would put your 4th level point in strength and the rest in dexterity.
here, your ninja should survive to flank a bit longer with less need for DM Fiat.
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I realy don't care how meny tricks you have to not take damage. In the end all that means is they just need one lucky shot. Focusing to much on tricks can kill you becous there not 100% effective. HP are 100% effective.
Did you give my bonus damage from Dirty Figher???? I want all my DPR.
Dirty Fighter: You wouldn’t have lived to make it
out of childhood without the aid of a sibling, friend, or
companion on whom you could always count to distract
your enemies long enough for you to do a little bit more
damage than normal. That companion may be another
PC or an NPC (who may even be recently departed from
your side). When you hit a foe you are f lanking, you deal
an additional 1 point of damage (this damage is added to
your base damage, and is multiplied on a critical hit). This
additional damage is a trait bonus.
Is it worth dropping the Dex and Cha?
yes, because a corpse cannot deal damage.
By this logic, take highest possible CON with every class, just dump everything else, even INT for wizards and WIS for clerics. Won´t help you stay alive forever though, only a bit longer.
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Most characters can get by with a 14. Some fighters will want to start with a 16 depending on build.
Thing to rember PFS uses static HP incress.
1D6 = 4
1D8 = 5
1D10 = 6
1D12 = 7
Now Con 14 adds 2 points for each level. And level cap is 12.
12D6 = 48 Con 14 = 72
12D8 = 60 Con 14 = 82
12D10 = 72 Con 14 = 94
12D12 = 84 Con 14 = 108
As you can see Con 14. Adds a bost to your HP equal to 2 dice sizes. So with out a con mod. You will not have enough hp to keap from one shot kills on you.
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Guess I am the only Ninja going 2h? I never was one for optimizing :P
Human:
Str: 18 (16+2)
Dex: 15
con: 14
Int: 7
Wis: 10
Cha: 12
Feat: Power Atk
Feat: Quick Draw
Obviously the stats are flexible, could go with 7 Str and 16 Dex to start.
The Cha means not too many Ki points, the Int means -2 skills per lvl, but being Human gives you 1 extra skill point a lvl I think, so that means you just lose the one. With Con 14, if you REALLY need an extra skill point you could consider favoured clss bonus being used, though I prefer the hp.
Things like Vanishing Trick give you the ability to get a good sneak attack in, however until the Invisible weapon talent (I believe lvl 10ish?) you only get to sneak attack on your first attack so why not be using just one weapon?
I believe the Katana uses Bastard sword stats (I could be totally wrong) so you are doing 1d10+6 (+9 if you PA) when you cannot get a sneak attack in due to immunity or unable to flank. When you do manage to flank you then get 1d10(+9) +1d6.
At higher lvl, the lack of TWF will hurt due to less attacks for sneak attack, but again, whenever not getting a full attack round you get to do a lot more damage.
But why not get the best of both worlds, Feats so far are:
Power Attack
Quick Draw
So, at lvl 3 get TWF.
Now you move around doing your 1d10+6 when not sneak attacking, or, when you get into a flanking position you get the 1d10+6 +2d6. If you are lucky enough to actually still be in a flanking position on your next turn for a full attack, you simply make use of Quick Draw to pull out your light weapon, use the Katana as a 1h weapon and do 1d10+4 +2D6 and 1d6+2 +2d6
So, you can maximise your sneak attack when you can and do decent damage when you cannot full attack
Obviously the price you pay is the feats, having to take Quick Draw instead of Double Slice decreases your Str bonus with offhand - but then again, like everyone keeps saying, its all about the sneak atk damage.
Another Feat issue is that by using 2 different weapons in TWF you cannot maximise benefit from Weapon Focus so you lose out on +1 to Hit, though hopefully the high STr makes up for this a bit
Another problem with the build is of course less skill points and Ki points, but you can always modify the stats, I like 18 Str to get the +6, but you can always get that via an item later on and instead improve Int or Cha.
Another weakness is low AC as you are only going to get it to 16 by lvl 4. (though again, you could have gone with 16 Str and 18 Dex)
But as I said, I am no good at optimising - my maths is not good enough and nor is my knowledge of the rules to the finest detail. But a Ninja of Death seems fun and is likely a build I will try out
As far as i know vanishing trick is a swift action.
And by ninja of death i imagine something different.
More like going down the ranged path, take flurry of stars and get some speed or haste item or have a wizard or alchemist in your party, then get sniper goggles and give them 5*1+(STR)+(magig weapon damage)+5d6 Sneak Attack(+5*4 if in 30" range from sniper goggles).Boom. Then ass poison damage and things like bleeding attack or/and pressure points.
But thats personal flavor and your way is quite nice too. I think total optimization iis often spoiling the game somehow.
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As far as i know vanishing trick is a swift action.
And by ninja of death i imagine something different.
More like going down the ranged path, take flurry of stars and get some speed or haste item or have a wizard or alchemist in your party, then get sniper goggles and give them 5*1+(STR)+(magig weapon damage)+5d6 Sneak Attack(+5*4 if in 30" range from sniper goggles).Boom. Then ass poison damage and things like bleeding attack or/and pressure points.But thats personal flavor and your way is quite nice too. I think total optimization iis often spoiling the game somehow.
I do like the Shuriken frenzy, the main reason I went with a 2h route is because I don't want to rely on my Ki points - they are awesome but if I run out I don't want to feel I am lacking.
Also, until high lvl will you be able to sneak attack with the shuriken? Vanishing Trick lets the first hit SA but the others will be normal hits.
No all attacks are SA in the round after you appear first again. Its just like if you sneaked up on your enemy or were invisible, same rules.
You can sneak attack very often with it as it is now.
One way to prevent running out of shuriken is taking the throw everything feat and always have some playing card decks at hand^^
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No all attacks are SA in the round after you appear first again. Its just like if you sneaked up on your enemy or were invisible, same rules.
You can sneak attack very often with it as it is now.
One way to prevent running out of shuriken is taking the throw everything feat and always have some playing card decks at hand^^
Oh, interesting, I did not realise the SA worked on all attacks, I remember seeing a debate on here somewhere that discusse SA and the rules and that once you made the first attack you were now visible and the monster was no longer flat footed against you - I never saw the discussion come to a conclussive end but obviosuly there was a debate for both sides.
If the full round of attacks works that does make shuriken even better :)
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Stat priorities for ninja are as follows:
1 Cha- this is the basis for ki points which are the lifeblood of ninjas.
1 Dex- this is tied with Cha because pretty much everything is tied to it, except interaction skills, and attacks, which can be if you take weapon finesse.
3 Str-you can't weapon finesse the bastard sword, plus it increases your overall damage, and more importantly allows you to carry more stuff, like weapons.
4 Int- this isn't quite as good as Str, because you get plenty of skill points already, and while some skills are tied to it, they are almost exclusively knowledge skills.
5 Con- this is pretty much only there so you don't die, you know, if you decide to foolishly take the Naruto route of Ninja.
6 Wis- this is only important for will saves (which you could just take Iron Will and/or Indomitable Faith to make up for it) and perception checks (which you will already have an amazing perception check to begin with, and you can buy feats to get better at it)
The only feats you really need to take are ones that get you into chains, for example, point blank shot, you can then spend a ki point when you REALLY need rapid shot using Forgotten Trick, and even if Ultimate Combat makes Forgotten Trick as an advanced Trick, it's still worth taking, and it still doesn't change how you should buy feats.
The biggest problem with the ninja is the lack of options for low-level Tricks, you get 4 choices, and one of those is pretty much always going to be Forgotten Trick (probably the first), after that you should do your level best to keep the number of Ki points you spend to a minimum. Ki Charge, Flurry of Stars, and Acrobatic Master are the 3 Tricks that eat the most Ki, the other tricks are either passive, last a really long time, or you can use them 1/day for free. You also don't want to actively take any of the feats through ninja tricks, because you can just spend Ki to fake them for a few rounds, and most feats you only need for a round or two at a time anyway.
The ninja isn't particularly messed with by armor, not until you take evasion, so dipping into fighter for armor proficiencies, then wearing heavier suits of armor isn't a terrible idea, especially if your dex isn't something to write home to momma about (read: not 18+), that way your AC won't be terrible. Plus that extra feat is always sexy because it gives you an excuse to pick up Iron Will.
Keep in mind, this is just my opinion.
You get a SA whenever the target is flatfooted to you, what means its roundwise. There was perhaps one edition of D&D where this was different and some strange people believe it has to be different, but its not.
Reading the description of things helps there ;)
Hey kids, I cannot find it in the Ninja document, what is his/her starting Wealth?
Thanks
It doesn't say. I would think that its the same as a rogue.
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Was that supposed to be sarcastic? (Can't read emotions over text)
Anyways,that sucks.
My biggest backup is me being able to revive/ressurect myself.Anyways,I tend to r un away from a fight if the going gets bad,down a healing potion,then run back in.
No, I'm envious that you have a person to take all the hits for you. I don't use sarcasm when people can't hear me or when I can't make it perfectly clear that I'm being sarcastic. I spend more time trying to not take hits than I do actually participating in the fight sometimes, and that's boring.