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After playing a hefty amount of the classic Castlevania titles, I thought it would be a fun idea to base my next character after Simon Belmont. The immediate problem is that whips are pretty much useless as weapons, but rather useful as a tool for disarming/tripping/etc.
I generally overlook a lot of things like class abilities and feats when creating a specific character like this, so I've thoroushly looked over the melee-orientated classes, but I cannot make this character add up to something at least decent.
I'm hoping I'm missing something useful that can actually make this character playable, so I'm here to ask for advice on this character (Other than "Don't make this character").
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Don't make this character. :)
But seriously, don't miss out on the Scorpion Whip (from Adventurer's Armory), that does lethal damage and lets you add your dex to [EDIT]attack[/EDIT].
Also, Serpent Lash from the Osirion book is a must-have feat. The Cheliax book also has Fury's Fall and Fury's Snare (though the latter makes you drop the whip).
It's a lot of feats (with weapon finesse and Exotic Weapon Prof.) without much reward, but it can be done. You might be able to put something together with a Magus, maybe...?
But seriously, don't miss out on the Scorpion Whip (from Adventurer's Armory), that does lethal damage and lets you add your dex to damage.
What.
As far as I can determine, the part about this adding dex to your damage is not true. If there is some way to make this work (other than some craziness with three arms and Dervish Dance), please let me know...
After playing a hefty amount of the classic Castlevania titles, I thought it would be a fun idea to base my next character after Simon Belmont.
Bard gets the proficiency for free.
A strength-based two-handed power attacking scorpion-whipping bard isn't completely terrible, and has lots of other group support, too. The other option is to go finesse, with serpent lash, combat reflexes, improved trip, and try to get your party to cluster around the poor bastard that's about to get AoO'd into oblivion.
You'll also need some vials of holy water, a returning starknife, some darts, throwing axes, and a haste potion (closest thing I could find to the stopwatch). It goes without saying that any time a party member lights a torch, you whip it. Whip it good.
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But seriously, don't miss out on the Scorpion Whip (from Adventurer's Armory), that does lethal damage and lets you add your dex to damage.
What.
As far as I can determine, the part about this adding dex to your damage is not true. If there is some way to make this work (other than some craziness with three arms and Dervish Dance), please let me know...
Whups, I meant to ATTACK, not damage. Fixed.
As far as I can determine, the part about this adding dex to your damage is not true.
Yeah.
Scorpion Whip: 1d4/x2/S Description: A scorpion whip deals lethal damage, even to creatures with armor bonuses. If you are proficient with whips, you can use a scorpion whip. Weapon Feature(s): disarm, reach, trip
If you have weapon finesse, both whips are finessable. But not out of the box.
A couple of years ago I had a player who had a similar idea. I created a feat for her called Combat Lash which required Combat Expertise and Exotic Weapon Proficiency: whip as prerequisites.
The feat allowed a masterwork dragoncraft whip to inflict 1d6 lethal damage on a hit and allowed it to threaten as a reach weapon (the weapon could attack at 5' and 15', but only threatened at 10). The wearer was limited to light armor if they wanted to use the feat in this manner. The weapon could be finessed, but not power attacked.
It sounds overpowering, but it's a substantial number of feats to pay to make the weapon effective and it's damage output is still low. At least until they get a magical weapon that heaps on bonus damage dice. It might be rough in the hands of a sneak attacking rogue as well.
Someone has pointed this out to me in this other thread:
The genius guide to martial archetypes
It contains the Blacksnake archetype (can be aplied to every class) that apperently gives you alot of options for whips. I don't have this book myself, so can't tell you much more.
@Quatar - This character will be for Society. Does Society accept 3rd Party books like this? If so, I'll definitely throw the $3 for that book.
No pathfinder society wont allow 3rd party material, so you will have to stick to paizo stuff. Which is unfortunate because the blacksnake is really everything you could possibly want in a whip user, and its a shame that paizo hasnt taken their own crack and bringing a whip user into focus.
That said I believe the scorpion whip IS pfs legal, so that is a must choose, otherwise you will be completely inept very quickly with a normal whip.
Its part of the pathfinder companions afaik..
The only thing I found that was third party was hunters blood. Everything else should be a bout legal for society.
Seperent lash is one of the first feats you want to go for. Allows you to attack again after a trip, snatch up items, and drag people around.
Now the reason I went two-weapon is because of the sub weapons and also to maintain the ability to resist fear effects.
With a weapon in your second hand you could make AoO when they get too close to you.
Silver Knives, Stakes, Holywater, I'd say a ricochet hammer instead of a star knife (You need something with B to fight skeletons.) Axes etc.
Focus mostly on the whip though, but do pick up TWF feats as the come available.
Personally, I'd play a human fighter still. the favored class bonus eventually could give you a +20 on two different cmds, or any variety of smaller bonuses for other ones.
Yes, Serpent Lash is a pretty cool feat, basicly allows you to trip two people with a standard action with your full BAB (assuming you succeed on the first)
Getting Improved Trip should be on your agenda too, even though its benefit with the whip isn't that super awesome anymore. Your trip attempt might not provoke AoO anymore, but using your whip still does. So not really a change there, but the +2 CMB might be nice. Not such a high priority though I guess. (also if you trip them at 15 ft, you don't provoke anyway against most foes, since they don't threaten your square)
Hmm, concering Fury's Fall:
When you already use a Weapon Finessed whip for tripping... you already use Dex for your CMB already, right? (yes, I know FF adds both Str and Dex, but if you go the finesse route, your Str probably isn't the best to start with)
My own attempt at recreating a Belmont was fortunately during 3.5E with the 'spiked chain' that had reach. Anyhow...
I have to agree that the Scorpion Whip is a must.
I also seriously recommend Spiked Gauntlets (and/or Armor Spikes). None of the whips threaten, so you won't get AoOs, but you also won't provide flank for teammates with a whip. Gauntlets fix the flank issue and you will still threaten 5 feet while holding the whip. Also handy backup weapons(already equipped) if you have to drop said whip while failing a disarm or trip.
Another option is to use a Flail and the Lunge feat... different set of bonuses and penalties to deal with, but possible. The reach aspect becomes a bit more situational. *shrug*
If set on the whip, I think a level of Bard is a good choice. A few spells, like Cure Light Wounds, couldn't hurt... not to mention Inspire Courage. There's also Cleric or Inquisitor of Calistria for whip proficiency.
Personally, I couldn't suggest anything but a fighter as classes go. Whips IMO are the most feat dependent type of weapon you could have as they do pretty much nothing in damage and cannot threaten.
Theme wise, I would not go with divine of Calistria.. I'd end up going more with Pharmasia
Theme wise, I would not go with divine of Calistria.. I'd end up going more with Pharmasia.
The suggestion of Calistria was only for the purpose of obtaining the whip proficiency without burning a feat. You could focus on the 'revenge' portfolio of Calistria if you're focusing on theme, seems fitting for a several century-long vampire hunt/war.
After playing a hefty amount of the classic Castlevania titles, I thought it would be a fun idea to base my next character after Simon Belmont. The immediate problem is that whips are pretty much useless as weapons, but rather useful as a tool for disarming/tripping/etc.
I generally overlook a lot of things like class abilities and feats when creating a specific character like this, so I've thoroushly looked over the melee-orientated classes, but I cannot make this character add up to something at least decent.
I'm hoping I'm missing something useful that can actually make this character playable, so I'm here to ask for advice on this character (Other than "Don't make this character").
I don't know the original character, so I may point out all kinds of crap that doesn't fit, but I've been a little obsessed over the past few days with figuring out a whip- and trip-based Magus. Here's some notes I've made:
There are several ways to acquire whip proficiency without spending your first level feat: a level of bard, a level of fighter (bonus feat), halforc alternate Beastmaster racial feature gives up orc ferocity to treat whip and net[1] as martial weapons, human gets a bonus feat, and half-elf can give up skill focus for exotic or martial weapon proficiency, although it's still an entirely worse choice than half-orc, possibly even if you're a caster.
Which brings me to Magus. The Spellstrike ability states that when a Magus casts a spell with a range of "touch" that "Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack
bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell." Combat rules say: "You can attempt to trip your opponent in place of a melee attack." This is a way to add some damage while you're tripping somebody, which seems like fun to me. Two levels of Magus get you that, as well was Spell Combat, which will allow you to cast True Strike and attack in the same round by taking a -2 penalty, netting you +18 to your attack and therefore to your trip attempt. Stop at three levels of Magus, and you'll get an Arcana -- I'd recommend the one that allows you to power your spellstrike from wands, both for more spells and because...
...you should also carry around a standard non-damaging whip. Your friend in trouble? Don't want to take the AOOs to go heal him? Spellstrike a Cure on him from 15 feet away. If you've used Bard for your proficiency, you won't even have to roll UMD.
And if you take three levels of Magus, you may as well take a fourth -- you won't lose a BAB -- for access to second level spells and either Spell Recall (2+Int extra spell levels a day by recalling used ones as a swift action) or to give that up in favor of gaining a witch's hex and just use your Arcane Pool to add a small but stacking +1 to your weapon for a minute at a time, as a swift action. (That +1 counts in your trip attempts, too, remember.)
So, yeah. I don't know it fits the character, and you're giving up three feats and two BAB compared to a fighter, but it gives you some interesting abilities.
Hm. Human Magus4/Fighter2/CavalierX
H exotic wep prof whip
1 weapon finesse
3 serpent lash (theoretically, you could trip up to 3 creatures a round here; first iterative, spell combat&spellstrike, bonus from serpent lash if either of those succeeds, but I don't think you'll have the bonuses to pull off all three except against total mooks)
5 combat expertise
5(fighter bonus1) improved trip
6(fighter bonus2) mounted combat?
7 Extra Hex (cackle)
9 Greater trip
Ride around on your horse (who threatens near you even if you don't since you have a whip) using your move action to cackle to keep up an Evil Eye, Misfortune, or Fortune hex, casting spells and tripping everybody. (Or, you know, trying to trip everybody...) Plus you get a minor smiting from Cavalier and some other stuff. Also remember that lance can be a one-handed weapon while you're mounted, so that's a decent weapon to use against things that aren't trippable and you'll still be able to do spell combat at range.
Edit: Mounted Combat should probably be deferred in favor of Boon Companion (+4 to Cavalier level for purposes of the mount). Fury's Fall would be next in line, or if your dex was high enough that adding dex+str was greater than the benefits from Improved Trips you could take it earlier. (You don't care about the AOOs since the whip itself will be provoking them and you'll want to avoid that.)
I'm also wondering how Bladebound's black blade being unbreakable if it has a pool point would interact with Fury's Snare's line: "Escaping the whip by making a Strength check means the whip gains the broken condition." I'm not sure if you'd want to drop your black blade until ninth level, when you can teleport it back if it's within a mile. (So still not a good idea to entangle another caster.)
[1]Net is actually pretty good. It's a touch attack and can entangle, and while it's not worth a feat it's probably worth using at least at low levels if you're prof in it accidentally.
You know I remember in one of the titles that he uses a spiked chain and really it wasn't all that long. In any case in addition to serpent lash you might also want to check out the Cheliax Empire Pathfinder companion.
For Spike Chain:
Cornugon Shield: +1 to AC
Cornugon Trip: You can throw your spike chain to make a ranged trip attack.
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Hm. Human Magus4/Fighter2/CavalierX
H exotic wep prof whip
1 weapon finesse
3 serpent lash (theoretically, you could trip up to 3 creatures a round here; first iterative, spell combat&spellstrike, bonus from serpent lash if either of those succeeds, but I don't think you'll have the bonuses to pull off all three except against total mooks)
5 combat expertise
5(fighter bonus1) improved trip
6(fighter bonus2) mounted combat?
7 Extra Hex (cackle)
9 Greater trip/QUOTE]nitpick: EWP requires a BAB of 1. build doesnt work as writtem, but you could trade whip and combat exp
No one has brought up the Pain Taster? Fun class for whip use, unfortunately it does not appear to be PFS legal, I don't know why. We don't have PFS around here.
You can find it on this page.
nitpick: EWP requires a BAB of 1. build doesnt work as writtem, but you could trade whip and combat exp
Yeah. I'd start with the level of Cavalier for the better hit die and because at low levels, horses can be really significant even as extra combatants. Actually I'd probably go half-orc, too -- with a decent Int, I'd consider darkvision more useful than 1 skill/level -- but I figured that might not fit into an anime character concept.
I was already getting a bit verbose, and here I go again, but I should have written Cavalier1/Magus4/Fighter2/CavalierX. Played the Iconic cavalier on free games day and I had a lot of fun and now I'm all enthusiastic.
No one has brought up the Pain Taster? Fun class for whip use, unfortunately it does not appear to be PFS legal, I don't know why. We don't have PFS around here.
Pain Taster has a lot of fluff built into it that makes it unsuitable for a character who's already got something in mind, I suppose. It's probably not PFS-legal because it has an ability that references Concentration as a skill.
I vaguely remember (This was a gameboy title, waaaaaaaaaaay back in the 'white brick' era) that if he collected enough orbs, the character could upgrade his whip into a flail, and then a flail that shot orbs of steel for a ranged attack.
So why not grab a Meteor Hammer? Can be used in a variety of styles, has both reach and the chain/whip feel? If you want, remain in 'Fortress' Mode, gain reach and +1 shield bonus to AC for the win Unfortunately requires both hands to use, so might not be what you have in mind for a character concept....
actually refluffing pain taster into a good class would be simple enough:
change the non good preq to only good
change the special into something good
refluff disciple of pain into burning special incense to good gods
refluff masochism into "zealous"
refluff cruelty into "righteousness"
Wow. I didn't even notice before that they were limited to evil alignments and was considering refluffing a character pretty much like you did; I'd be much more comfortable playing a crazy religious zealot. Though even so, I'm not sure flagellants were all that good. Lawful, maybe...