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Never really had it come up before but was looking at some options with combat patrol and I realized I didn't actually know.
You can't attack someone adjacent with a reach weapon adjacent, however do you still threaten your 5' adjacent space ? relevant for the total area threatened when setting up a combat patrol.
was looking at the ninja's easy access to invisibility and eventually greater with tasty capstone that invis beats true seeing coupled with combat patrol, reach weapon + lunge for 15' reach to see if its possible to sqeeze out enough attacks to make it worthwhile.
if it doesn't would having a bite attack from say racial ability or from an eldrich herritage (ninja is cha based) give you that adjacent threat for combat patrol filling in the gaps ?
As a side note single attack make strength build a possibility but that reduces you combat reflexes AoO's which reduces your combat patrol effectiveness, although STR makes your shurikens decent when they can't sneak.
From what I understand, most people just add some spiked gauntlets to their inventory and problem is solved.
From what I understand, most people just add some spiked gauntlets to their inventory and problem is solved.
You can't use spiked gauntlets with most reach weapons, since they are usually two-handed (whips being an obvious exception).
Spiked armor is usually the go-to for close range combination with reach. That or Improved Unarmred Strike or a level dip into Monk (to threaten with kicks).
You can strike foes that would normally be out of reach.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: You can increase the reach of your melee attacks by 5 feet until the end of your turn by taking a –2 penalty to your AC until your next turn. You must decide to use this ability before any attacks are made.
Lunge does not extend your Threatened area after your turn has finished and no, you do not Threaten the 5' adjacent squares:
Where "X" is threatened / can be attacked by a Medium or Small Creature weilding a standard reach weapon.
& "L" can be attacked, but is not threatend by (after the end of your turn), a standard reach weapon.
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LXOOOXL
LXOFOXL
LXOOOXL
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Try
You range across the battlefield, dealing with threats wherever they arise.
Prerequisites: Combat Reflexes, Mobility, base attack bonus +5.
Benefit: As a full-round action, you may set up a combat patrol, increasing your threatened area by 5 feet for every 5 points of your base attack bonus. Until the beginning of your next turn, you may make attacks of opportunity against any opponent in this threatened area that provokes attacks of opportunity. You may move as part of these attacks, provided your total movement before your next turn does not exceed your speed. Any movement you make provokes attacks of opportunity as normal.
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Only if you're Tiny.
I would also argue that you are not Wielding the Spiked Armour unless you have taken the penalties associated with
You can fight with a weapon wielded in each of your hands. You can make one extra attack each round with the secondary weapon.
Prerequisite: Dex 15.
Benefit: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand lessens by 2 and the one for your off hand lessens by 6. See Two-Weapon Fighting in Combat.
Normal: If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. When fighting in this way you suffer a –6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a –10 penalty to the attack with your off hand. If your off-hand weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 each. An unarmed strike is always considered light.
I say this because if you do not take the penalites then you are not concentrating on wielding the Armour Spikes at the same time as the other weapon.
I`m pretty sure Paizo editors or developers have directly contradicted thay view.
You do not need to attack with a weapon to wield it. You just need to wield a weapon to attack/threaten with it. 2WF penalties only apply when you are 2WF`ing, i.e. during a Full Attack action (or 2WF Fighter AoO`s) Most characters using 2WF will be taking single AoO`s and they don`t suffer any 2WF penalties on those, and can choose any weapon wielded to take the AoO.
I guess spear chain and a 1h weapon solves the threaten 5' as well but then your 1h weapons as a STR build and missing out on 1.5x dmg but on the plus side your threatening an extra 5' but with combat patrol you can move to attack with the non reach weapon if you want but at best thats 1d8 instead of 1d6 which is meh.
I figured with a bite attack at least you can still 2h weapons and make all your combat patrol attacks with 1.5x STR mod weapon.
might as well just two weapon fight with 2 spear chains and lunge and forget combat patrol, mmm they don't make it easy to use combat patrol do they.
you'd almost be always better off lunging with reach and making a whirlwind attack 2h vs combat patrol
and as a general rule you'd almost always be better off making a full attack instead of whirlwind attack.
oh well my search for someone who can use combat patrol to it fullest continues.....
I was under the impression that you could use spiked gauntlets with a 2h weapon. Most 2h weapons need 2 hands to attack with, but you can still hold them in just 1 hand, and attack with the other hand, with a spiked gauntlet. I couldn't find anywhere that says whether this is legal or not, does anyone know where this might be spelled out in the rules?
I was under the impression that you could use spiked gauntlets with a 2h weapon. Most 2h weapons need 2 hands to attack with, but you can still hold them in just 1 hand, and attack with the other hand, with a spiked gauntlet. I couldn't find anywhere that says whether this is legal or not, does anyone know where this might be spelled out in the rules?
It's not when making attacks.
You can do what you are talking about on your turn when you make an attack.
You are then no longer threatening with the 2h weapon, and can't take AoO with it (but you can with the gauntlet). If you attack with the 2H weapon, then you are wielding it, and can't make attacks of opportunity with your gauntlets.
Usually, the idea is to use a 2H reach weapon but still threaten if someone get's past your reach weapon. So, armor spikes plus long spear for example.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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reach weapon ... do you still threaten your 5' adjacent space ?
Depends on if your GM allows you to use a reach weapon as an improvised while not on your turn.
Otherwise you need spiked gauntlet/armor to do so.
Only if you're Tiny.
That is a 3.5 rule (3.5 DMG p29 iirc), they removed that in Pathfinder. Tiny do not threaten even with a Reach weapon now.
Quandary / James Maissen,
Can you link to the Dev Posts / Rules please. I can see nothing for or against the PC with a 16 BAB using different weapons as described in the core rule book (Page 187), but the Shielded Fighter from the APG has a 5th Level ability that allows them to change attacks between their main weapon and their shield -
Why would he have this ability if the normal Full Attack action allowed for the switching of weapons?
There is no stated action to Take your hand off a weapon. Since irl it can be done very quickly and is often done for some attack routines and repositioning, i've always said its a non action and allowed the spike gauntlet. If the dm doesn't like that, spike the armor.
James,
I am happy with Two-Weapon Fighting and your description of it is very good. Thank you for your responces. Given this has moved well away from the orignal posting I will raise my main issue / thing I have to sort out with my GM in a new thread.
Never really had it come up before but was looking at some options with combat patrol and I realized I didn't actually know.
You can't attack someone adjacent with a reach weapon adjacent, however do you still threaten your 5' adjacent space ? relevant for the total area threatened when setting up a combat patrol.
was looking at the ninja's easy access to invisibility and eventually greater with tasty capstone that invis beats true seeing coupled with combat patrol, reach weapon + lunge for 15' reach to see if its possible to sqeeze out enough attacks to make it worthwhile.
if it doesn't would having a bite attack from say racial ability or from an eldrich herritage (ninja is cha based) give you that adjacent threat for combat patrol filling in the gaps ?
As a side note single attack make strength build a possibility but that reduces you combat reflexes AoO's which reduces your combat patrol effectiveness, although STR makes your shurikens decent when they can't sneak.
The only way you can threaten at 5' with a reach weapon that I know of is to have the Polearm Fighter archetype, which lets you shift your grip as an immediate action for a hit penalty. The alternative, of course, is to sneak in two levels of Alchemist and get a third arm.
The only way you can threaten at 5' with a reach weapon that I know of is to have the Polearm Fighter archetype, which lets you shift your grip as an immediate action for a hit penalty. The alternative, of course, is to sneak in two levels of Alchemist and get a third arm.
Improved Unarmed Combat
Level dip into Monk
Armor Spikes
The only way you can threaten at 5' with a reach weapon that I know of is to have the Polearm Fighter archetype, which lets you shift your grip as an immediate action for a hit penalty.Improved Unarmed Combat
Level dip into Monk
Armor Spikes
None of these accomplish what he's claiming:
To whit to threaten with a reach weapon not simply threaten the squares with any armed attack, which yours would achieve.
It's a small distinction, but people get this confused too often not to make it clear to them.
-James
True Enough.
How about : These are ways to threaten at 5' while wielding a reach weapon? Better?
The only way you can threaten at 5' with a reach weapon that I know of is to have the Polearm Fighter archetype, which lets you shift your grip as an immediate action for a hit penalty. The alternative, of course, is to sneak in two levels of Alchemist and get a third arm.Toothy half-orc ftw.
As James M points out above, this is another way to threaten while wielding a reach weapon, not to actually threaten with the reach weapon.
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Never really had it come up before but was looking at some options with combat patrol and I realized I didn't actually know.
You can't attack someone adjacent with a reach weapon adjacent, however do you still threaten your 5' adjacent space ? relevant for the total area threatened when setting up a combat patrol.
was looking at the ninja's easy access to invisibility and eventually greater with tasty capstone that invis beats true seeing coupled with combat patrol, reach weapon + lunge for 15' reach to see if its possible to sqeeze out enough attacks to make it worthwhile.
if it doesn't would having a bite attack from say racial ability or from an eldrich herritage (ninja is cha based) give you that adjacent threat for combat patrol filling in the gaps ?
As a side note single attack make strength build a possibility but that reduces you combat reflexes AoO's which reduces your combat patrol effectiveness, although STR makes your shurikens decent when they can't sneak.
Pg. 180 of the core rules:
Threatened Squares: You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you’re unarmed, you don’t normally threaten any squares and thus can’t make attacks of opportunity.
Reach Weapons: Most creatures of Medium or smaller size have a reach of only 5 feet. This means that they can make melee attacks only against creatures up to 5 feet (1 square) away. However, Small and Medium creatures wielding reach weapons threaten more squares than a typical creature. In addition, most creatures larger than Medium have a natural reach of 10 feet or more.
Couple that with the reach weapon rules, and I can see it becomes a little confusing. The answer is in the type of attack, I think. The person with the reach weapon may not use the reach weapon to perform an attack into an adjacent square, but can still make other attacks (punching, tripping, etc)., so I believe those squares are still threatened.
If a Medium creature has a weapon with 10 foot reach and does not threaten enemies adjacent to him, does attacking with the reach weapon provoke AoO against the wielder from the adjacent enemies? (i.e., similar to provoking an AoO by attacking with a ranged weapon while in a threatened space)
This thread was a year and a half old.
If a Medium creature has a weapon with 10 foot reach and does not threaten enemies adjacent to him, does attacking with the reach weapon provoke AoO against the wielder from the adjacent enemies? (i.e., similar to provoking an AoO by attacking with a ranged weapon while in a threatened space)
I'm not sure what you're asking.
Lets say there's a goblin with a longspear. He doesn't threaten adjacent squares. If an elf is standing adjacent to him, the elf is not threatened.
If the goblin does something that provokes, the elf can take an attack of opportunity.
If the elf does something that provokes, the goblin cannot take an AoO, because he doesn't threaten the elf.
-edit-
If the goblin just attacks someone with his longspear, that doesn't provoke. Reach weapons determine cover like ranged weapons do, but they're not ranged weapons and they don't provoke when you attack with them unless you do something special that specifically provokes.
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This thread was a year and a half old.
If a Medium creature has a weapon with 10 foot reach and does not threaten enemies adjacent to him, does attacking with the reach weapon provoke AoO against the wielder from the adjacent enemies? (i.e., similar to provoking an AoO by attacking with a ranged weapon while in a threatened space)I'm not sure what you're asking.
Lets say there's a goblin with a longspear. He doesn't threaten adjacent squares. If an elf is standing adjacent to him, the elf is not threatened.
If the goblin does something that provokes, the elf can take an attack of opportunity.
If the elf does something that provokes, the goblin cannot take an AoO, because he doesn't threaten the elf.
-edit-
If the goblin just attacks someone with his longspear, that doesn't provoke. Reach weapons determine cover like ranged weapons do, but they're not ranged weapons and they don't provoke when you attack with them unless you do something special that specifically provokes.
He's asking if the very act of attacking with a reach weapon provokes. Perhaps because when determining cover reach weapons count as ranged weapons.
The answer is no, it does not provoke. It remains a melee attack; it does not becomea ranged attack, despite the rules for cover
EDIT: Bah! Ninja'd by an edit!