Hi Im the DM of a group of 4 players that dont have a healer, we are playing council of thieves, originaly there were 5 players and one was the cleric of the group but he is not a reliable player and only showed the day we made characters and the first session, so my players are wondering what to do without a cleric and I need to come with a solution.
THe party consists of 1 fighter 2 rouges and 1 summoner
The obvious solution could be adding potions to the loot and wands but is difficult to drink a potion in combat and costs your whole action and a potion can get "old" a caster level 1 potion of CLW at level 5 is just useless, the problem i see for the wands is that none of the rogues have ranks in use magic device and maybe they didnt planed to but Ill have to ask them to invest skill points there if I were to add wands.
Any ideas?
Get the cleric player to pitch again?
The group is a strange consistency. I find it strange that not one of the rogues have UMD, as its a good skill to have, and rogues shouldnt have a problem putting ranks in it. A wand isnt the best answer, but it could help.
At least half of the campaigns I've played in with my friends we haven't had a Cleric.
Our GM usually makes several classes we have the option to bring along. He will make NPC's that have abilities/spells we are short on, like Cleric in this case. And we'll bring the NPC along that we need the abilities most for that certain night's session/mission.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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If the cleric player isn't going to be in your group anymore, you can simply turn his character into an NPC and have him not do much more than heal. Alternatively, depending on what level the party is, someone can take the leadership feat to recruit a cleric cohort.
Also, if I recall, Ultimate Magic has some evolutions that will let an eidolon get some minor healing abilities, so the summoner can shore up the party's healing need by selecting those.
Let them hire an adept with CLW, then he can use wands plus cast spells. Make the adept 1 level lower than them, and he get's 15% of the treasure and does nothing but defend in fights (pacifist). His part of the treasure goes to his temple.
If they get tired of paying for it, the rogues can take UMD to avoid loss of 15% of their gold.
There are npcs in the story that can fill in for a healer if you dont want to force your players to take specific options.
Arael is a cleric and a major npc, if the party requires a healer and is only 4 pcs (not overly large) you should consider having him adventure with them. Janiven can fill in with wand use until the party frees Arael, and then he can adventure with them earning a share of the xp and treasure as a dm npc in exchange for his clerical abiltiies.
I almost want to say, don't change anything and let them figure it out, but really, the one who should have UMD is your summoner, because of the high charisma and class skill. At level 5 you can relegate the healing to post combat and let him take 10 on his checks.
Or you could give them a +2 headband of vast intelligence with the skill UMD = to character level, and a wand of cure light and let them figure it out. They are Level 5 now, it shouldn't be that bad of a deal.
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First, remember that in-combat healing is usually a waste. Most encounters you would be better off attacking and ending the fight that much sooner.
That said, I would suggest that the summoner go for UMD and a wand of CLW. If you had to heal in combat, the summoner could use an action to do so, while the eidolon could still attack. Alternately, if noone will go with UMD, give them plenty of potions and let them use them outside of combat to heal.
An out of game option is to check your local game or comic shop for anyone looking for a game. You might get a healer and might even get a new friend.
Well, you can do what we did when this happened to our group. After one of the characters die, that player gets to re-roll a cleric. :-P
You've got two options:
1} Let it work itself out. Sooner or later one or more someones is going to die due to lack of a cleric. Probably at that time the group will realize that a party of four melee PCs (the summoner is effectively a melee class IMHO) really doesn't work, and they will re-visit their choices.
2} Compensate. Arael is a cleric. You can use him. His ongoing survival throughout the AP isn't critical to its development. You can have him act as an NPC accompanying the group. Of course, when he dies you're back looking at #1 again.
I encourage a sit-down with your group. Couch it this way:
Melee type? Check, check, check, check.
Arcane caster? Errr, not really.
Divine caster? Nope.
I know nobody's going to want to change characters but someone probably should.
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I've been playing in a party for a long time that hasn't had a dedicated healer and we've been just fine. Average Encounter level is CR+2-3, and we haven't had a single character death, except for one guy that got permanently turned into a squirrel without any way to change him back in game, but that wasn't something healing could've solved.
I've been playing in a party for a long time that hasn't had a dedicated healer and we've been just fine. Average Encounter level is CR+2-3, and we haven't had a single character death[.]
So, exactly how do you manage it? Wands and UMD, a keg of potions, insanely high AC, NPCs, one encounter a week, secondary healer, GM fiat?
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I've been playing in a party for a long time that hasn't had a dedicated healer and we've been just fine. Average Encounter level is CR+2-3, and we haven't had a single character death[.]So, exactly how do you manage it? Wands and UMD, a keg of potions, insanely high AC, NPCs, one encounter a week, secondary healer, GM fiat?
Just doing our best to fight intelligently, or avoid combat when at all possible. Some fights can just be skipped, and you can make most fights WAY easier by getting the drop on the bad guys. We might get torn up pretty badly, but it usually takes a few fights before something like that happens.
If we didn't play that way, we'd probably stick with the Wand of Cure Light Wounds. It's the best cleric substitute. Or, if nobody wants to play a cleric, try a Hospitaler Paladin. Those guys ROCK at between combat healing.
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I would suggest scaling back the challenge rating of encounters so that the PCs can deal with them without the need for healing so much, allow for overnight healing to be enough to keep them going (just).
Alternatively introduce the Reserve Points system from Unearthed Arcana, combine that with Damage Conversion and characters can even get an effective Second Wind in combat, plus healing non-lethal damage is a lot quicker than lethal.
Have them learn the rules for fighting defensively, shooting from cover, and using the Aid Another action to bolster an ally's AC. If the PCs didn't make a healer, they don't want a healer. If they realize they want a healer, they'll figure something out.
... we are playing council of thieves...
Any ideas?
You have a half dozen or so NPCs saved by the party in the first module. Make one of them an oracle, bard, witch or adept. Presto! You have the Healbot-9000.
Don't forget the considerable benefits to be derived from the Heal skill itself. It can patch up an awful lot of damage between fights in short order. I would recommend a "respec" session with your reliable players as well. They shouldn't be punished because the cleric's player is waffling so much.
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A rogue multiclasses well with a cleric. I have had two rogue/clerics in my games and they make very effective characters. The saves sync up well, proper domain choice can fill some nice gaps in the rogue's abilities. They get medium armor for when armoring up makes sense.
I could go on. Get one player to multi cleric.
I'm curious what you mean by this. The only effect on healing that the skill has is increased healing from a full night or full day of rest, AFAIK.
Agreed - I always play the healer for my group and have been looking for some way to make "Heal" work but within the rules I can't see much happening without a lot of time. If you have some way the Heal skill could be made useful for HP damage within the rules could you share it?
Seems kind of wierd - I can't be the only one thinking that the level 1 barbarian with max 14HP and 1HP of damage couldn't go back to full health with a successful heal check. /sigh
Treat Deadly wounds allows a one time recovery of 1 hp per HD per day to the creature healed plus the skill users wisdom if you exceed the 20 DC check by 5. It does take one hour of work to use that aspect of the skill though.
Treat Deadly wounds allows a one time recovery of 1 hp per HD per day to the creature healed plus the skill users wisdom if you exceed the 20 DC check by 5. It does take one hour of work to use that aspect of the skill though.
Bingo. Note the "plus Wisdom modifier" part. Yes it takes an hour. However, the characters can all "aid" with a paltry DC 10 Heal check. One can also pitch in to help any one stricken with various diseases and poisons, perform first-aid on each other and so on. This skill is pretty capable out of combat in saving resources.
The Oracle's revelation relating to the Heal skill begs to be a feat (say, requirement either 3 ranks of Heal or Skill Focus: Heal).
Make a house rule that Treat Deadly wounds can be used more than once a day, and maybe shorten the time to use it to 10 min. or ten rounds. As for in combat healing ether the PCs can muti-Class or take the feat goddless healing. The feat can be found in the "Inner Sea World guide" page 287.
Their was an interesting article in dragon magazine about such situations back in the day. It looked at the problem from the PC's point of view not the DM so I am not sure how much it will help you. It basically equated teams with out primary healers to a swat squad. Emphasizing stealth, dynamic breaching, ambushes to minimize damage taken in combat. It may be that your players may have fun playing a little differently then they normally would. It may even add a little extra tension to encounters since they don't have a healer right their to fix them up after the fight.
Take party
Add cleric
Sprinkle in slightly annoying philosophy and religion
whip together briskly and bake at high heat
Enjoy.
Serves 3-7
The purely easiest way is to have one or two characters take levels in Ranger.
FE: Human will dovetail nicely with everything, favored terrain: Urban will net you bonuses, and you can use cure wands without needing UMD skill (though every rogue should have UMD!)
Oh, and heal is a class skill, too. Instead of Animal Companion, take the Guide alternative to give bonuses to your friends.
==Aelryinth
I'd just let them run with it. If they die without a cleric, they die without a cleric. If they live, then they'll feel that much more accomplished for it. There is also natural healing from rest to consider. There would be a lot of down time while they heal their wounds, but that's the reality of the fantasy, if you will.
You could also allow the Belt of Healing from the 3.5 magic item compendium.
It was something like 2D8 healing as a standard action, 3 times/day. Pretty cheap, like 500 gold if I recall correctly.
Picking up a couple of those let our group without a healer recover after fights without really providing in combat healing (except to save a PC that was bleeding out)
Hi Im the DM of a group of 4 players that dont have a healer, we are playing council of thieves, originaly there were 5 players and one was the cleric of the group but he is not a reliable player and only showed the day we made characters and the first session, so my players are wondering what to do without a cleric and I need to come with a solution.
THe party consists of 1 fighter 2 rouges and 1 summoner
...
Any ideas?
The fighter can take 1-3 levels in ranger (urban ranger and possibly guide archetypes from APG) to pick up some extra skill ranks and abilities, as well as the ability to use a wand of cure light wounds without a Use Magic Device check. No loss in BAB, improved Fort and Ref saves, and at most a Will save one less than single classing.
The rogues and/or the summoner should be puting ranks in Use Magic Device. Alternately, one or both rogues may want to multiclass in bard (arcane duelist, archivist, detective, sandman, and street performer are all thematically appropriate archetype choices); alchemist and inquisitor may also be worth looking into.
Hi Im the DM of a group of 4 players that dont have a healer, we are playing council of thieves, originaly there were 5 players and one was the cleric of the group but he is not a reliable player and only showed the day we made characters and the first session, so my players are wondering what to do without a cleric and I need to come with a solution.
THe party consists of 1 fighter 2 rouges and 1 summoner
The obvious solution could be adding potions to the loot and wands but is difficult to drink a potion in combat and costs your whole action and a potion can get "old" a caster level 1 potion of CLW at level 5 is just useless, the problem i see for the wands is that none of the rogues have ranks in use magic device and maybe they didnt planed to but Ill have to ask them to invest skill points there if I were to add wands.
Any ideas?
If you have Dungeonscape, a 3.5 book, they have a bunch of kits for missing party elements.
Cleric-in-a-box,
Antitoxin x4 200gp
Healer's Kit 50gp
Holy Water x4 100gp
Restorative ointment 4000gp
Potions
Cure Mod x2 600gp
Lesser Rest x2 800gp
Remove Blind/Deaf 750gp
Remove Curse 750gp
Remove Paralysis 300gp
Total 7550gp
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Even if they dont multi-class (which if against concept or desire, they shouldnt), this is an excellent opportunity to play without 1 of the fab four (fighter, mage, cleric, thief). This will garner experience and careful thinking for the characters and players both once they get off the crutch that 'healers' are needed. Take Conan and Tsubodai from (Conan the Barbarian) 2 guys, no heals. Even when Valeria showed up. 3 rogues (ish) no dedicated healer. A tale of high adventure was told even when they had thier hams handed to them. I think you should let them embrace the challenge and see how far it goes.