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When brass knuckles came out they were lauded as a huge help for monks, which they are. Being able to add weapon enhancements to your unarmed strike is a lot.
Unfortunately it really messes with the flavor a lot of people want out of their monks.
But relying on or using brass knuckles goes counter to every image or concept I have of a monk. It is still a valid point, but I hate when classes are tied to very specific pieces of equipment to allow them to continue to function.
Yeah, Brass Knuckles - the savior of Monks everywhere.
Now you can have a cool old master of martial arts, jumping, speeding, kicking and striking like hell - provided he has affixed his brass knuckles beforehand like a 2nd rate street mugger.
If your concept of a monk that you really want is a true bare-handed fighter whose body is his weapon, it's a mood killer.
There's also the matter of unarmed strike and flurry of blows. A lot of the fun of US and FoB for many is the huge variety of ways they can be described and visualized, whether it's left backhand-to-right hook-to-right elbow-pivot-left kick or headbutt-to-palm strike-to-knee to the face or a running, flying kick.
By the rules, brass knuckles give you punch-punch-punch-punch.
What if there was an alternate item that could be used specifically for monks? Something around the same price, but can enhance unarmed strike for the entire body rather than just one fist AND more closely fits the common image of the monk?
Something like special wrappings about the wrists and feet, with the explanation that they infuse the body with magic through key points. Or iron rings. Perhaps they could be described as needing the entire set to be in place on the appropriate areas of the body in order to work, provided the monk has those areas(allowing for characters that have lost limbs).
Could we possibly see something like this in the future for monks?
I would imagine some magical/dragonhide brass knuckles (meaning they are not made of brass after all) would have an entirely different look compared to the run-of-the-mill, third-rate street mugger's ones. I mean, some of the weapons the characters from the offical arts wield look pretty funky.
Especially since Monk's unarmed damage progression replaces that of the brass knuckle, I don't see why it can't be something, well anything other than made of brass as long as it's similarly disarmable.
I imagine it is a tightrope they're walking in monk design. They're hands do 2d10 damage at max level which they can get about lvl 15. Which is more than any weapon a fighter or any other melee type can use. They eventually get 7 attacks and with a ki point 8 attacks on their own. Toss in haste and they can get up to 9 attacks per round. Full Power Attack for every attack.
I think the main thing that Brass Knuckles allow that is nice is bypassing DR. #/adamantine DR comes into play often at lvl 7 or so. And Cold Iron, Silver, and alignment DR much sooner. So Brass Knuckles at least allow for you to bypass that type of DR as does the new Versatile Weapon spell. I wonder if they gave that to that new monk archetype.
I imagine it is a tightrope they're walking in monk design. They're hands do 2d10 damage at max level which they can get about lvl 15. Which is more than any weapon a fighter or any other melee type can use. They eventually get 7 attacks and with a ki point 8 attacks on their own. Toss in haste and they can get up to 9 attacks per round. Full Power Attack for every attack.
Honestly? That's not a whole lot.
2d10 is 11 damage. That's what and all it is. 2d10 is an average of 11 damage.
You claim that's more then any weapon a fighter can use but that's not true. Even a fighter who has taken no feats at all can hit 10.5 with a greatsword, and he has a much higher power attack to boot. That's without adding in any of the feats that then go on to increase his damage even more, and he's already going to be hitting the same stride that the monk hits.
Big dice do not neccissarily equate to big damage.
As for monks, I think it was in Evolved Arcana that Monte Cook outright said monks could have their "natural attack" enchanted as if it were a weapon. That always seemed one of the best solutions to me, alongside letting monks do "monk damage" with all monk weapons rather then just "unarmed damage."
..... alongside letting monks do "monk damage" with all monk weapons rather then just "unarmed damage."
I thought about that too, and it would be great for a martial artist class that fights unarmed and with weapons, but since the monk is mostly envisioned as a fist-first character the manufactured weapons would make the fist obsolete for many players.
Maybe gloves(monk only) that can be enchanted and pass the effects along to unarmed strikes or weapons would work, and since the belt slot now takes care of physical attribute bonuses in Pathfinder the monk would not lose anything.
here is my suggestion
allow anyone with the improved unarmed strike feat to enchant thier unarmed strikes as magic weapons. using the desired limb as the appropriate slot.
kicks take the feat slot, punches take the hands slot. each slot would cost as much as enchanting a single melee weapon.
It's just called brass knuckles... what prevents reflavouring to wrappings or bangles really? Mechanically it's really just about the damage, price, weight and slot taken.
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I imagine it is a tightrope they're walking in monk design. They're hands do 2d10 damage at max level which they can get about lvl 15. Which is more than any weapon a fighter or any other melee type can use. They eventually get 7 attacks and with a ki point 8 attacks on their own. Toss in haste and they can get up to 9 attacks per round. Full Power Attack for every attack.Honestly? That's not a whole lot.
2d10 is 11 damage. That's what and all it is. 2d10 is an average of 11 damage.
You claim that's more then any weapon a fighter can use but that's not true. Even a fighter who has taken no feats at all can hit 10.5 with a greatsword, and he has a much higher power attack to boot. That's without adding in any of the feats that then go on to increase his damage even more, and he's already going to be hitting the same stride that the monk hits.
Big dice do not neccissarily equate to big damage.
As for monks, I think it was in Evolved Arcana that Monte Cook outright said monks could have their "natural attack" enchanted as if it were a weapon. That always seemed one of the best solutions to me, alongside letting monks do "monk damage" with all monk weapons rather then just "unarmed damage."
I think you would have to make that a mid-level monk ability/feat lest it become a dip and abuse thing.
The reason the amulet is so expensive is it allows you to functionally enchant two weapons (both your hands) or more in the case of monsters.
I agree that enchanting hands is important (which was the intent of the brass knuckles) but it is a fine line.
I think, since the Monk doesn't get all the nice things it wants flavorfully or mechanically, either/or is better than nothing, so if I have to flurry with one fist to get proper enchantments, I'll take it. Considering the developers have nerfed the brass knuckles but haven't done so in an official errata/FAQ manner, a core rules Monk is lucky to get any benefit at all here.
That said, houseruling the function of brass knuckles to be more like mini-Amulets of Mighty Fists is reasonable and hardly broken for Monks. I'd probably run it such that a set of knuckles could be crafted that work like magical boots or gloves: both must be enchanted as one item and worn in a pair to apply their powers to the character's body.
Considering the developers have nerfed the brass knuckles but haven't done so in an official errata/FAQ manner, a core rules Monk is lucky to get any benefit at all here.
Wait, what.
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I think, since the Monk doesn't get all the nice things it wants flavorfully or mechanically, either/or is better than nothing, so if I have to flurry with one fist to get proper enchantments, I'll take it. Considering the developers have nerfed the brass knuckles but haven't done so in an official errata/FAQ manner, a core rules Monk is lucky to get any benefit at all here.
That said, houseruling the function of brass knuckles to be more like mini-Amulets of Mighty Fists is reasonable and hardly broken for Monks. I'd probably run it such that a set of knuckles could be crafted that work like magical boots or gloves: both must be enchanted as one item and worn in a pair to apply their powers to the character's body.
You're likely referring to SKR explaining how Adventurer's Armory brass knuckles work. That post was from before the APG came out, where the brass knuckles were reprinted and changed.
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I imagine it is a tightrope they're walking in monk design. They're hands do 2d10 damage at max level which they can get about lvl 15. Which is more than any weapon a fighter or any other melee type can use. They eventually get 7 attacks and with a ki point 8 attacks on their own. Toss in haste and they can get up to 9 attacks per round. Full Power Attack for every attack.Honestly? That's not a whole lot.
2d10 is 11 damage. That's what and all it is. 2d10 is an average of 11 damage.
You claim that's more then any weapon a fighter can use but that's not true. Even a fighter who has taken no feats at all can hit 10.5 with a greatsword, and he has a much higher power attack to boot. That's without adding in any of the feats that then go on to increase his damage even more, and he's already going to be hitting the same stride that the monk hits.
Big dice do not neccissarily equate to big damage.
As for monks, I think it was in Evolved Arcana that Monte Cook outright said monks could have their "natural attack" enchanted as if it were a weapon. That always seemed one of the best solutions to me, alongside letting monks do "monk damage" with all monk weapons rather then just "unarmed damage."
I think you would have to make that a mid-level monk ability/feat lest it become a dip and abuse thing.
The reason the amulet is so expensive is it allows you to functionally enchant two weapons (both your hands) or more in the case of monsters.
I agree that enchanting hands is important (which was the intent of the brass knuckles) but it is a fine line.
Let monk's enchant their own bodies (as one weapon) as though they had the Craft Arms and Armor feat, using their monk level as their spellcraft check. For each 1000gp in the enchantment cost they have to spend one day in a training montage.
I've allowed monks to have both wraps (paired, so the fists or feet do the same enchanted damage, or a headband for headbutts) and tattoo's. It's never broken anything. Wraps take up the gloves slot, head slot, or feet slot (depending on which one the monk puts on). That way, they could have a bit of variety (costs the same as a TWF enchanting two weapons, and takes up 2 slots). The tattoo's were also by feet/hands/head, and cost 50% higher than a normal weapon enchantment (slotless enchantment). Again, never broke anything (and I used NPCs a lot with it too, to test it out).
I would just got my brass knuckles and i desribe my attacks as punch-kick-headbutt or whatever i want, since it doesn't have a mechanical difference how i describe my attack there is no problem.
Do you need to enchant the ends of a quarterstaff seperately?
Yes. All double weapons require the seperate ends to be enchanted individually and a Staff is a double weapon (even if your not using it that way).
Let monk's enchant their own bodies (as one weapon) as though they had the Craft Arms and Armor feat, using their monk level as their spellcraft check. For each 1000gp in the enchantment cost they have to spend one day in a training montage.I imagine it is a tightrope they're walking in monk design. They're hands do 2d10 damage at max level which they can get about lvl 15. Which is more than any weapon a fighter or any other melee type can use. They eventually get 7 attacks and with a ki point 8 attacks on their own. Toss in haste and they can get up to 9 attacks per round. Full Power Attack for every attack.Honestly? That's not a whole lot.
2d10 is 11 damage. That's what and all it is. 2d10 is an average of 11 damage.
You claim that's more then any weapon a fighter can use but that's not true. Even a fighter who has taken no feats at all can hit 10.5 with a greatsword, and he has a much higher power attack to boot. That's without adding in any of the feats that then go on to increase his damage even more, and he's already going to be hitting the same stride that the monk hits.
Big dice do not neccissarily equate to big damage.
As for monks, I think it was in Evolved Arcana that Monte Cook outright said monks could have their "natural attack" enchanted as if it were a weapon. That always seemed one of the best solutions to me, alongside letting monks do "monk damage" with all monk weapons rather then just "unarmed damage."
I think you would have to make that a mid-level monk ability/feat lest it become a dip and abuse thing.
The reason the amulet is so expensive is it allows you to functionally enchant two weapons (both your hands) or more in the case of monsters.
I agree that enchanting hands is important (which was the intent of the brass knuckles) but it is a fine line.
Bonus points if the montage is set to an 1980s power ballad.
On the other hand, if the monk wears a track suit, gold jewelry, and a mullet, then maybe the brass knuckles are appropriate.
Grant monks a secret technique set of feats, that mimic the craft arms and armor feats, so they are a subset of what is available. That way you can control what craft arms or armor enchantments are available, so you don't break the flavor again by introducing some outlandish combinations.
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I knew that was the case in 3.5, but where is that stated in Pathhfinder?Do you need to enchant the ends of a quarterstaff seperately?Yes. All double weapons require the seperate ends to be enchanted individually and a Staff is a double weapon (even if your not using it that way).
Creating magic double-headed weapons is treated as creating two weapons when determining cost, time, XP, and special abilities.
Under Magic Item Creation. Apparently you cannot enchant only one end of the weapon. :/
I'm fairly certain that I saw some staves that were magical on one end and only masterwork on the other in both the PHB and APG.
I realize that's a different category, but nothing requires a magical staff to be a magical weapon too, so it seems a valid example.
You're likely referring to SKR explaining how Adventurer's Armory brass knuckles work. That post was from before the APG came out, where the brass knuckles were reprinted and changed.I think, since the Monk doesn't get all the nice things it wants flavorfully or mechanically, either/or is better than nothing, so if I have to flurry with one fist to get proper enchantments, I'll take it. Considering the developers have nerfed the brass knuckles but haven't done so in an official errata/FAQ manner, a core rules Monk is lucky to get any benefit at all here.
That said, houseruling the function of brass knuckles to be more like mini-Amulets of Mighty Fists is reasonable and hardly broken for Monks. I'd probably run it such that a set of knuckles could be crafted that work like magical boots or gloves: both must be enchanted as one item and worn in a pair to apply their powers to the character's body.
I'll have to go look the thread up again, but I'm pretty sure his change of heart on the matter was after the APG release.
Edit: Scratch that. It was pre-APG release.
So it's possible their ruling was absolved by the APG, but many people seem to think otherwise.
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Let monk's enchant their own bodies (as one weapon) as though they had the Craft Arms and Armor feat, using their monk level as their spellcraft check. For each 1000gp in the enchantment cost they have to spend one day in a training montage.
YES!
And letting monks do it themselves perfectly maintains their flavor while not having them depend on a caster to uplift them!
I imagine it is a tightrope they're walking in monk design. They're hands do 2d10 damage at max level which they can get about lvl 15. Which is more than any weapon a fighter or any other melee type can use. They eventually get 7 attacks and with a ki point 8 attacks on their own. Toss in haste and they can get up to 9 attacks per round. Full Power Attack for every attack.Honestly? That's not a whole lot.
2d10 is 11 damage. That's what and all it is. 2d10 is an average of 11 damage.
You claim that's more then any weapon a fighter can use but that's not true. Even a fighter who has taken no feats at all can hit 10.5 with a greatsword, and he has a much higher power attack to boot. That's without adding in any of the feats that then go on to increase his damage even more, and he's already going to be hitting the same stride that the monk hits.
Big dice do not neccissarily equate to big damage.
As for monks, I think it was in Evolved Arcana that Monte Cook outright said monks could have their "natural attack" enchanted as if it were a weapon. That always seemed one of the best solutions to me, alongside letting monks do "monk damage" with all monk weapons rather then just "unarmed damage."
The average damage for a standard Greatsword is 7 points rolled.
11 for a monk.
Now with feats and abilities the fighter does much better. But the fighter should do much better. Physical damage is all the fighter has for the most part. Monk gets a ton of other nifty abilities.
When brass knuckles came out they were lauded as a huge help for monks, which they are. Being able to add weapon enhancements to your unarmed strike is a lot.
Unfortunately it really messes with the flavor a lot of people want out of their monks.
But relying on or using brass knuckles goes counter to every image or concept I have of a monk. It is still a valid point, but I hate when classes are tied to very specific pieces of equipment to allow them to continue to function.Yeah, Brass Knuckles - the savior of Monks everywhere.
Now you can have a cool old master of martial arts, jumping, speeding, kicking and striking like hell - provided he has affixed his brass knuckles beforehand like a 2nd rate street mugger.
If your concept of a monk that you really want is a true bare-handed fighter whose body is his weapon, it's a mood killer.
There's also the matter of unarmed strike and flurry of blows. A lot of the fun of US and FoB for many is the huge variety of ways they can be described and visualized, whether it's left backhand-to-right hook-to-right elbow-pivot-left kick or headbutt-to-palm strike-to-knee to the face or a running, flying kick.
By the rules, brass knuckles give you punch-punch-punch-punch.
What if there was an alternate item that could be used specifically for monks? Something around the same price, but can enhance unarmed strike for the entire body rather than just one fist AND more closely fits the common image of the monk?
Something like special wrappings about the wrists and feet, with the explanation that they infuse the body with magic through key points. Or iron rings. Perhaps they could be described as needing the entire set to be in place on the appropriate areas of the body in order to work, provided the monk has those areas(allowing for characters that have lost limbs).
Could we possibly see something like this in the future for monks?
You know. I think I'm going to say screw it and give the monk an ehancement progression on his unarmed attacks. Let's face it. That is what they should get. A monk trains to fight as well with this hands as a fighter or any other class does with weapons. And while I'm at it, I'm going to toss in that he gets his unarmed damage with his monk weapons. Make their combat style completely seamless.
I can see why in the previous games before they buffed all the other melee classes why they held the monk back. But with the fighter now doing totally insane damage and Paladins, Barbarians, and rangers doing insane damage in their specialized areas, I see no reason to hold the monk back any longer as far as enhancement bonuses go.
It's no longer necessary like it was before Pathfinder. The weapon training of the fighter alone gives a +4 to hit and damage advantage. And the natural +15 BAB stops a monk from getting as much of a benefit from Power Attack as the +20 BAB classes. All in all other classes received enough of a buff to warrant the monk getting full +5 enhancement with his hands and using the Amulet of Mighty Fists for other types of weapon enhancements.
So progression will be:
Monk
1-4 +1
5-8 +2
9-12 +3
13-16 +4
17-20 +5
Must have at least 1 ki point in pool to gain the enhancement benefit.
@Maddigan
Since the monk's BAB becomes full BAB when flurring it gets the full benefit of feats like power attack and deadly aim.
So progression will be:
Monk
1-4 +1
5-8 +2
9-12 +3
13-16 +4
17-20 +5Must have at least 1 ki point in pool to gain the enhancement benefit.
If you're going to do this, I would suggest the following instead...
Level Bonus
1-2 Masterwork
3-4 +1
5-6 +2
7-8 +3
9-10 +4
11-12 +5
13-14 +6
15-16 +7
17-18 +8
19-20 +9
This keeps him about the same as everyone else on what they can get on their weapons. The enhancements only work on their unarmed strikes. At level 5+, he can choose either Enhancements or Special Abilities. Reallocating takes a week of meditation and incense costing 1,000gp per point of bonus the monk has (so 4,000 at level 10, 7,000 at level 15, etc). The monk can either use his innate bonuses, or an amulet of mighty fists, but not both.
There are a lot of cool ideas here, and the ability for a monk to enchant himself is kinda cool. The natural progression for unarmed strikes is creative as well.
While not necessary new, 4E has an interesting, and in my opinion elegant, possible solution.
For those unfamiliar, in 4E there are a set of items called implements, these implements are used to enhance abilities that can be channeled through them. For example: a +1 Magic Orb implement would add 1 to any kind of attack roll and damage roll made by a spell cast through the implement. The magic system in Pathfinder makes the 4E implement system failry sub-par for casters.
However, the 4E monk is uniquely proficient with a special kind of implement named a Ki Focus (I know that Ki Focus is also a +1 Enhancement for weapons, so I'll try to be as clear as possible.) Bellow is the text for the Ki Focus implement from 4E.
A ki focus is an implement that certain classes use as a focus for their inner magical energy, known as their ki. a ki focus might take the form of a training manual, a scroll of ancient secretes, or a blunt training weapons. To use a ki focus, you must first attune yourself to it. Some characterizes study their ki focus to attune themselves to it. Otherwise meditate with it or wield it as they practice their fighting techniques. Once you have attuned yourself to a ki focus, you must either wear or hold it o use it as an implement.
When you attune yourself to a ki focus, you draw on magic within it to shape your ki. This attunement is temporary, fading away if you attune yourself to a different ki focus, or if you die. The ki focus that you're attuned to occupies your ki focus item slot.
To attune yourself to a ki focus, you mus have the item on your person during a short of an extended rest. Whenever you take a rest, you can attune yourself to a ki focus in your possession, but you can be attuned to only one ki focus at a time. Also, only one creature at a time can be attuned to a particular ki focus. Once you attune yourself to a ki focus, no one else can attune to it until you a no longer attuned to it.
If you use a ki focus as an implement you follow the normal rules for implement use
Being able to use a ki focus as an implement means you can also use it with your weapon attacks. You can add it's enhancement bonus to the attack rolls and the damage rolls of weapon attacks you make using a weapon with which you have proficiency. However, you must choose to use the enhancement bonus, properties, and power of the ki focus, rather than the weapon you're wielding, or vice versa. you can't use both when you have a power.
tl;dr - a ki focus is a magical implement that once a monk (or other character attuned to the ki focus) attunes himself to the ki focus, they may add the implement's enhancement bonus and special properties to attack and damage rolls. This bonus does not stack with the enhancement bonus and special properties any weapon wielded by the character. The character chooses whether to use the weapon's original enhancements, or the attuned implement's enhancement at the time of making an attack. Ki Focus implements use a special implement slot, and do not take up existing character slots (such as neck, back, ring etc.).
As an example: Lets say Marty McMonk has a +3 keen Temple Sword, and is attuned to a +2 Dragon Bane KF Implement. When fighting most any opponents Marty is content to hack away with his Sword, making trip attempts as well, because that's what its made for. But when facing down a Magma Dragon, and needing to deal all that extra damage, Marty gets to punch and kick at an effective +4 enhancement with 2d6 extra dice added on top. Furthermore, he can still use his trusty Temple Sword to get a little bit more out of his trip attempts, using either the Sword's enhancements, or the enhancements provided by his KF implement.
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So progression will be:
Monk
1-4 +1
5-8 +2
9-12 +3
13-16 +4
17-20 +5Must have at least 1 ki point in pool to gain the enhancement benefit.
If you're going to do this, I would suggest the following instead...
Level Bonus
1-2 Masterwork
3-4 +1
5-6 +2
7-8 +3
9-10 +4
11-12 +5
13-14 +6
15-16 +7
17-18 +8
19-20 +9This keeps him about the same as everyone else on what they can get on their weapons. The enhancements only work on their unarmed strikes. At level 5+, he can choose either Enhancements or Special Abilities. Reallocating takes a week of meditation and incense costing 1,000gp per point of bonus the monk has (so 4,000 at level 10, 7,000 at level 15, etc). The monk can either use his innate bonuses, or an amulet of mighty fists, but not both.
This is something I dearly wish we could get an official option for, from a player's perspective.
As a GM I'm going to be keeping this meshed with J. Cayne's training approach available as an option for my players if they want to go the traditional treasure route instead of the (heavily modified) VoP route.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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You're likely referring to SKR explaining how Adventurer's Armory brass knuckles work. That post was from before the APG came out, where the brass knuckles were reprinted and changed.
Not changed in any material way.
Plus, considering they have not yet ruled on this in Errata/FAQ your table experience will vary wildly.
I've got a Eyes of the Ten PFS Ready Monk with Brass Knuckles, and it was a miserable experience playing it from level 1 to level 12. Every table ran Unarmed Strike/Brass Knuckles differently. The most common experience of the DM choice was "they are separate weapons" so mostly my Weapon Focus Unarmed Strike didn't help me on my Brass Knuckles attacks etc.
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You're likely referring to SKR explaining how Adventurer's Armory brass knuckles work. That post was from before the APG came out, where the brass knuckles were reprinted and changed.Not changed in any material way.
Plus, considering they have not yet ruled on this in Errata/FAQ your table experience will vary wildly.
I've got a Eyes of the Ten PFS Ready Monk with Brass Knuckles, and it was a miserable experience playing it from level 1 to level 12. Every table ran Unarmed Strike/Brass Knuckles differently. The most common experience of the DM choice was "they are separate weapons" so mostly my Weapon Focus Unarmed Strike didn't help me on my Brass Knuckles attacks etc.
AA brass knuckles:
Not listed as a "monk" weapon in the table.
Brass Knuckles: These weapons are designed to fit comfortably around the knuckles, narrowing the contact area and therefore magnifying the amount of force delivered by a punch. They allow you to deal lethal damage with unarmed attacks. You may hold, but not wield, a weapon or other object in a hand wearing brass knuckles. You may cast a spell with a somatic component while wearing brass knuckles if you make a concentration check (DC 10 + the level of the spell you’re casting). Monks are proficient with brass knuckles.
APG brass knuckles:
Listed as a "monk" weapon in the table.
Brass Knuckles: These close combat weapons are designed to fit comfortably around the knuckles, narrowing the contact area and therefore magnifying the amount of force delivered by a punch. They allow you to deal lethal damage with unarmed attacks. You may hold, but not wield, a weapon or other object in a hand wearing brass knuckles. You may cast a spell with a somatic component while wearing brass knuckles if you make a concentration check (DC 10 + the level of the spell you're casting). Monks are proficient with brass knuckles and can use their monk unarmed damage when fighting with them.
I can agree with Weapon Focus being necessary for brass knuckles, but the real deal is about having an enchant-able scaling unarmed strike, thus overcoming one of the biggest Monk problems: DR.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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I can agree with Weapon Focus being necessary for brass knuckles, but the real deal is about having an enchant-able scaling unarmed strike, thus overcoming one of the biggest Monk problems: DR.
We differ on the "real deal", as I couldn't care less about DR.
Pretty much all DM's were perfectly fine with these points:
1) BK could be Cold Iron and/or Silver etc to avoid DR.
2) BK used Monk Unarmed Damage dice.
3) BK were monk weapons.
I never had a problem with any of those.
My miserable experience is I frequently couldn't use:
1) Belier's Bite (because I wasn't making an Unarmed Strike attack)
2) Weapon Focus and Weapon Spec Unarmed Strike (I had Fighter levels) was useless.
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I can agree with Weapon Focus being necessary for brass knuckles, but the real deal is about having an enchant-able scaling unarmed strike, thus overcoming one of the biggest Monk problems: DR.We differ on the "real deal", as I couldn't care less about DR.
Pretty much all DM's were perfectly fine with these points:
1) BK could be Cold Iron and/or Silver etc to avoid DR.
2) BK used Monk Unarmed Damage dice.
3) BK were monk weapons.I never had a problem with any of those.
My miserable experience is I frequently couldn't use:
1) Belier's Bite (because I wasn't making an Unarmed Strike attack)
2) Weapon Focus and Weapon Spec Unarmed Strike (I had Fighter levels) was useless.
The DR problem was a major issue due to Monk being based on large number of weaker attacks as his DPR, and the requirement of (stupidly expensive) AoMF.
I'd rule Belier's Bite in Monk's favor (c'mon...they need all help they can get) and as for WF and WS heck, why multiclass the Monk in the first place? [admiralackbar]It's a trap![/admiralackbar]
As for monks, I think it was in Evolved Arcana that Monte Cook outright said monks could have their "natural attack" enchanted as if it were a weapon. That always seemed one of the best solutions to me, alongside letting monks do "monk damage" with all monk weapons rather then just "unarmed damage."
I think he suggested it (via a feat) in both Arcana Evolved and in the Book of Experimental Might. Sounds like a good idea to me.
Fixes I am considering for the monk:
-Monks can naturally use their unarmed strike to do any type of damage, bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing, as they have learned a variety of different strikes, from simple punches and kicks to finger and elbow jabs to chops and clawing at the opponents.
-At some point, Ki Strike lets his unarmed strike count as any special material for the purpose of overcoming DR.
-Monks get a full BAB. Period.
-Maneuver Training becomes a 1/2-level bonus to CMB and CMD.
-And as to the topic of this thread, either give them a straightforward enhancement progression on their unarmed strike, allow them to spend a Ki Point to enhance their unarmed strike or any one monk weapon they're holding to enhance it in the same manner as a Paladin's divine bond--or let them directly enhance their unarmed strike in a ritual, where the incense and meditation match up in cost and time exactly with enchanting a single weapon to the same degree.
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Call it a Tekko and the flavor is all kept. Originated in Okinawa, Japan, it is used by some martial artists.
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-And as to the topic of this thread, either give them a straightforward enhancement progression on their unarmed strike, allow them to spend a Ki Point to enhance their unarmed strike or any one monk weapon they're holding to enhance it in the same manner as a Paladin's divine bond--or let them directly enhance their unarmed strike in a ritual, where the incense and meditation match up in cost and time exactly with enchanting a single weapon to the same degree.
Again, this and the similar suggestions upthread that have the monk doing his own enhancement through monk-flavored means are something I wish Paizo would consider. This approach just feels right.
Hell, for all martial classes in some form or another really, to give them back some feeling of potency in the game world.
Is there a link to a post that clarifies this? It seems to me that the rule says only for attack rolls, not feats or anything else.@Maddigan
Since the monk's BAB becomes full BAB when flurring it gets the full benefit of feats like power attack and deadly aim.
It doesn't require much thought (since the monk needs as much omph as it can get) but still... you can find it here.