Taking down Treerazer

[KaeYoss]

Orannis wrote:

KaeYoss wrote:

Thing is, your chances of getting a nascent demon lord with his pants down are remote.

It's late and I am deliriously tired, but I am pretty sure this is one of the most amusing things I have read on this forum.

And I wasn't even going for funny. That would read something like "Treerazer will end you. This guy will be your very personal Appocalypse. Looking at his form, you can call him the Velocirapture."

[KaeYoss]

Kthulhu wrote:

Treerazer. Dire Honey Badger doesn't give a $#!+.

You win!

[James Jacobs]

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

(Who might have won initiative and used time stop to put some symbols of death, walls of thorns, and other surprises all up in those wizards' buisness in the meantime...)

I see your point about the lesser demons and cultists and whatnot. But the initiative thing?

"In addition, you receive a bonus on initiative checks equal to 1/2 your wizard level (minimum +1). At 20th level, anytime you roll initiative, assume the roll resulted in a natural 20."

20th level diviners cannot roll less than a 31 on initiative. Give them 12 Dex, some very modest buffs, and an item or two, and their minimum easily rises to 36 or so. Treerazer gets +14 to initiative. So, if it's straight-up init rolling, our hypothetical diviners will always, always win.

Now, you can make the argument that he'd have some kind of DEW line up, using minions to scan the sky for invisible flyers, magical traps, some kind of contingency-type effects, yadda yadda. I would have no problem with any of that.

But he's not going to win initiative against these guys.

Doug M.

Fair enough. The hard part about getting four 20th level diviners is actually convincing four players to play the same character, since players are generally so eager to NOT duplicate each other's character. :-P

[KaeYoss]

James Jacobs wrote:

Fair enough. The hard part about getting four 20th level diviners is actually convincing four players to play the same character, since players are generally so eager to NOT duplicate each other's character. :-P

That would only be a valid concern if people actually wanted to play the game, instead of treating it like an arena server of some MMO ;-P

[James Jacobs]

KaeYoss wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

Fair enough. The hard part about getting four 20th level diviners is actually convincing four players to play the same character, since players are generally so eager to NOT duplicate each other's character. :-P

That would only be a valid concern if people actually wanted to play the game, instead of treating it like an arena server of some MMO ;-P

And I suspect that if we were building our monsters to fight in an arena server, they'd all end up looking exactly the same. One of the things that annoys me the most about MMO arena battles is that before long, the whole community basically decides on/discovers the "best" combo and suddenly, there's about as much variety in arena battles as there is watching a rerun of a super-one-sided football game over and over and over. Pass.

[wraithstrike]

KaeYoss wrote:

wraithstrike wrote:

I am assuming Treerazer will have a system in place to make sure he knows he has visitors well before they are in combat range.

I think it's called a frikkin' demon nation (FDN for short). This guy is not an encounter. He's a campaign.

I think people are assuming they just have to take on the stat block but such a monster will force you to deal with more than just a stat block.

[Lyrax]

My favorite Big-Monster-Killer party is this:

A Paladin
A Fighter
A Fighter
A Cavalier

Paldin: "We all smite this foe together! Charge!"
Fighter 1 & 2: "Charge!"
Cavalier: "We all charge again!"

That kills just about ANYTHING.
Of course a proper Treerazer "encounter" is a whole campaign, or at least several adventure sessions before you ever get to actually see him in person.

[james maissen]

James Jacobs wrote:

And I suspect that if we were building our monsters to fight in an arena server, they'd all end up looking exactly the same. One of the things that annoys me the most about MMO arena battles is that before long, the whole community basically decides on/discovers the "best" combo and suddenly, there's about as much variety in arena battles as there is watching a rerun of a super-one-sided football game over and over and over. Pass.

You saw this kind of thing in living campaigns but the interesting thing is that these 'magnates' varied from region to region where there was little contact.

There isn't a best build. It's a joke to think that there might be.

As to the 4 wizards, I just took it up because someone posted how ineffective they would be with a somewhat cheap tactic. I figured I'd put it in a better light as Pathfinder has given the wizard a lot of power (and it's not like he was hurting before).

-James

[KaeYoss]

james maissen wrote:

As to the 4 wizards, I just took it up because someone posted how ineffective they would be with a somewhat cheap tactic. I figured I'd put it in a better light as Pathfinder has given the wizard a lot of power (and it's not like he was hurting before).

The problem with that is that those 4 wizards need to get to level 20 first. Sooner or later they're going to run into problems. Like they all die.

[james maissen]

KaeYoss wrote:

The problem with that is that those 4 wizards need to get to level 20 first. Sooner or later they're going to run into problems. Like they all die.

Hey sure a 20th level wizard is a power to be reckoned with.. and 4 of them is something beyond scary.

They should be able to move mountains, or deal with these pesky little demons in a round.

But OP asked for a party of 4 to take down Treerazer. Another poster came forward saying that 4 wizards going for enervations would hardly slow him down. I just countered that with a quick outline of 4 identical wizards that would likely take him out before anyone got to act... and on the off chance that Treerazer rolled high enough (and they low enough) on init to have it actually come up.. chances are he'll be dazed.

Is this a campaign? No, this is a message board where a poster came on starstruck by a stat block. Hopefully a few posts of what 20th level parties can do will just put it in perspective...

This wonderful game of ours changes over the levels. It's one of the nice parts of the game and it gives a feeling of progression. Not only does the setting change and what was impossible is beneath notice, but the feel and nature of the game change. Paradigms that work at other levels break down as the game progresses.

And an opponent that looks impossible to beat can be handily shut down at these end levels.

-James

[Douglas Muir 406]

James Jacobs wrote:

Fair enough. The hard part about getting four 20th level diviners is actually convincing four players to play the same character, since players are generally so eager to NOT duplicate each other's character. :-P

Heh. -- But I'm thinking more in terms of grand strategy: why don't the elves pick the brightest, most magic-apt kids of a generation, then spend a century or two training them up to be 20th level diviners (or whatever)?

Of course, maybe they're already doing that...

(Hey, character seeds: an elven Destined bloodline sorceror whose destiny is to one day fight Treerazer, an elven paladin who's a member of an order that exists to produce the champion who will one day fight Treerazer, etc. etc.)

Doug M.

[james maissen]

I forgot that the diviners were 20th level and their capstone ability:

SRD wrote:

Forewarned (Su)

You can always act in the surprise round even if you fail to make a Perception roll to notice a foe, but you are still considered flat-footed until you take an action. In addition, you receive a bonus on initiative checks equal to 1/2 your wizard level (minimum +1). At 20th level, anytime you roll initiative, assume the roll resulted in a natural 20.

So they always all beat poor dino (Treerazer) in initiative even if the poor guy rolled a nat 20 they have him by more than 14.

Sorry, I so seldomly think of 20th level PCs that I tend to forget these insane capstone abilities. Was on another thread and happened to read Forewarned.

-James

[Lorathorn]

Just adding this tidbit, but Treerazer is immune to energy drain, as part of his Death Effect immunity.

[james maissen]

Lantis wrote:

Just adding this tidbit, but Treerazer is immune to energy drain, as part of his Death Effect immunity.

Do you have a reference for this?

Enervation doesn't have the [Death] descriptor, and I can't quite see where it says this.

Mind you that means that they will have to load thanatopic metamagic on top of things, so it's not the end to the idea, however cheap it might be.

Consider the construct entry:

Construct traits wrote:

Construct Traits (Ex) Constructs are immune to

death effects, disease, mind-affecting effects (charms,
compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects),
necromancy effects, paralysis, poison, sleep, stun, and
any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect
also works on objects, or is harmless). Constructs are
not subject to nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability
drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain. Constructs
are not at risk of death from massive damage.

Undead have a similar entry. If energy drain is included in death effects, why list it separately?

-James

[Lorathorn]

Hmm... right you are. That's good news for me!

[Steelfiredragon]

if you cant beet him in combat, you can banish him to the demi plane that was mentioned in one of the APs that is golarion just before Earthfall and the meteors come down he dies, or atleast will be imprisoned there.

[pad300]

Let's try this with 1 20th level sorceror
0) Mutual detection
1) Sorceror wins initiative courtesy of initiative boosters discussed earlier in thread (improved init, high dex, boots of speed, Anticipate Peril, etc...)
2) Sorceror casts Time Stop 1d4+1 free rounds (expected 3 rounds - if need be, he moves step 5 up a stage)
3) Sorceror casts Summon Monster 8 1d4+1+1 Celestial Dire Tigers (CDTs hearafter) (augmented summoning and superior summoning feats) arrayed in flanking and charge positions around Treerazer
4) Sorceror cast Summon monster 8 1d4+1+1 CDTs (augmented summoning and superior summoning feats) arrayed in flanking and charge positions around Treerazer
5) Sorceror casts Time Stop 1d4+1 free rounds (again, expected 3 rounds)
6) Sorceror casts limited Wish, for Mass Eagle's Splendor, targetting CDTs
(+4 to Charisma)
7) Sorceror casts limited Wish, for Shared Wrath (Inquisitor 4 spell) )(+3 to hit and damage, and improved critical)
8) Sorceror casts limited Wish, for Blessing of Fervor (Cleric 4 spell) )(+2 to hit and reflex saves)
9) Time stop ends. Summoned creatures act on the turn they are summoned.
10) CDTs declare smite evil, charge and pounce. Bonuses to hit - +2 (charge) +2 Smite evil (charisma bonus from Mass Eagle's Splendor), +2 (Augment Summoning) +3 (Shared Wrath) +2 (Blessings of Fervor) = +11
CDT attack bonus +18
Total attack bonus = +29
Treerazer is flatfooted - he hasn't come up in the initiative order yet - his AC is 32. Attacks his on a 3 or better, a 90% chance of hitting.

Assume 8 CDTs. 16 Claw attacks, 8 Bites, 16 Rake Attacks

Each claw attack does 2d4+8+32(Smite)+3(Shared Wrath)+2 (Augment Summoning)
Each bite attack does 2d6+8+32(Smite)+3(Shared Wrath)+2 (Augment Summoning)
Each rake attack does 2d4+8+32(Smite)+3(Shared Wrath)+2 (Augment Summoning)

Minimum per attack is 47 pts of damage, smite bypasses all DR.

Treerazer has 574 hit points, which is 13 successful minimum damage attacks. He's a pile of goo. He might be able to regenerate (it appears the celestial template does not aspect your attacks to good-aligned.) The Sorceror may have to improvise something...Summoning some lantern archons or something to finish the job, while the CDT's hold Treerazer at VERY negative hp.

[Tribalgeek]

pad300 wrote:

Each claw attack does 2d4+8+32(Smite)+3(Shared Wrath)+2 (Augment Summoning)
Each bite attack does 2d6+8+32(Smite)+3(Shared Wrath)+2 (Augment Summoning)
Each rake attack does 2d4+8+32(Smite)+3(Shared Wrath)+2 (Augment Summoning)

Minimum per attack is 47 pts of damage, smite bypasses all DR.

Treerazer has 574 hit points, which is 13 successful minimum damage attacks. He's a pile of goo. He might be able to regenerate (it...

Sorry to burst your bubble but smite only applies to the first hit if I am remembering correctly which means everything past the first claw attack looses the smite damage.

[pad300]

Tribalgeek wrote:

pad300 wrote:

Each claw attack does 2d4+8+32(Smite)+3(Shared Wrath)+2 (Augment Summoning)
Each bite attack does 2d6+8+32(Smite)+3(Shared Wrath)+2 (Augment Summoning)
Each rake attack does 2d4+8+32(Smite)+3(Shared Wrath)+2 (Augment Summoning)

Minimum per attack is 47 pts of damage, smite bypasses all DR.

Treerazer has 574 hit points, which is 13 successful minimum damage attacks. He's a pile of goo. He might be able to regenerate (it...

Sorry to burst your bubble but smite only applies to the first hit if I am remembering correctly which means everything past the first claw attack looses the smite damage.

Nope, Paizo's version of smite is just psychotic:

D20PFSRD wrote:

Smite Evil (Su)

Once per day, a paladin can call out to the powers of good to aid her in her struggle against evil. As a swift action, the paladin chooses one target within sight to smite. If this target is evil, the paladin adds her Cha bonus (if any) to her attack rolls and adds her paladin level to all damage rolls made against the target of her smite. If the target of smite evil is an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature, the bonus to damage on the first successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per level the paladin possesses. Regardless of the target, smite evil attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess.

In addition, while smite evil is in effect, the paladin gains a deflection bonus equal to her Charisma modifier (if any) to her AC against attacks made by the target of the smite. If the paladin targets a creature that is not evil, the smite is wasted with no effect.

The smite evil effect remains until the target of the smite is dead or the next time the paladin rests and regains her uses of this ability. At 4th level, and at every three levels thereafter, the paladin may smite evil one additional time per day, as indicated on Table: Paladin, to a maximum of seven times per day at 19th level.

[Tribalgeek]

pad300 wrote:

Nope, Paizo's version of smite is just psychotic:

D20PFSRD wrote:

Smite Evil (Su)

Once per day, a paladin can call out to the powers of good to aid her in her struggle against evil. As a swift action, the paladin chooses one target within sight to smite. If this target is evil, the paladin adds her Cha bonus (if any) to her attack rolls and adds her paladin level to all damage rolls made against the target of her smite. If the target of smite evil is an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature, the bonus to damage on the first successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per level the paladin possesses. Regardless of the target, smite evil attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess.

In addition, while smite evil is in effect, the paladin gains a deflection bonus equal to her Charisma modifier (if any) to her AC against attacks made by the target of the smite. If the paladin targets a creature that is not evil, the smite is wasted with no effect.

The smite evil effect remains until the target of the smite is dead or the next time the paladin rests and regains her uses of this ability. At 4th level, and at every three levels thereafter, the paladin may smite evil one additional time per day, as indicated on Table: Paladin, to a maximum of seven times per day at 19th

...

added some emphasis on my own. Now re reading it it does seem that you would get to add the paladins level on each attack, but only the first attack would be 2 per level. So still damage is going to go down a bit, just don't feel like doing the math to see if it would be a one round death or not.

[Mark Sweetman]

An interesting counterpoint to this would be to optimise Treerazer himself to give him the best possible chance of survival against said party of 20th level.

If we're optimizing the goose we should optimize the gander as well :)

[pad300]

Tribalgeek wrote:

added some emphasis on my own. Now re reading it it does seem that you would get to add the paladins level on each attack, but only the first attack would be 2 per level. So still damage is going to go down a bit, just don't feel like doing the math to see if it would be a one round death or not.

Even if we assume a +16 for the smite, rather than +32, that means 31 pts per attack minimum, needing 19 successful attacks - the CDTs are taking 40, at a 90% chance to hit...

The actual major issue is can you get enough dire tigers in close on a huge target...while keeping them all in range/area of effect for the buff spells.

[Jal]

Treerazer has Unholy Aura on constantly. This gives him 'protection from good' which in turn gives "good summoned creatures cannot touch the target."

So the upteen Celestial Dire Tigers scratch away but do no damage.

[pad300]

Jal wrote:

Treerazer has Unholy Aura on constantly. This gives him 'protection from good' which in turn gives "good summoned creatures cannot touch the target."

So the upteen Celestial Dire Tigers scratch away but do no damage.

Really, Unholy Aura. I don`t see anything there about protection from summoned creatures...

Still, you have a point, you might be better off summoning resolute (lawful template) and smiting chaos rather than evil. If only to avoid the potential strength damage.

[Jal]

My bad. Read the 'protection from good' comparisons from 'unholy aura' description and jumped to wrong conclusion that it was *as* 'protection from good'.

Unholy aura seems to be almost identical to 'protection from good' but slightly better bonuses. The unable to be touched by summoned creatures replaced by a 1d6 strength damage shield if struck by a good creature (fort save to negate, DC25 in this case).

[cdkc]

the way that i would kill treerazer is by using his many enemies.Both The elves and the one that would really kill him Cyth-V'sug. Cyth-V'sug was treerazer's master until treerazer thought himself to be powerful enough to usurp his throne. this was not the case. in fact the only way to destroy his artifact is to attack Cyth-V'sug with it. get them to fight and the problem will sort itself out, as long as you never talk to or try to confront Cyth-V'sug.

[Lemonfresh]

I've been reading through this thread and have enjoyed all the comments and suggestions made. I'm currently running a Golarion campaign where Treerazer is one of the BBEG's that the villian actually wants to kill. While the PCs are now only 11th level and since a long way from such an epic confrontation with this demonosaur, this thread has given me a few ideas to play with.

When monsters such as Treerazer are confronted as part of a conclusion to a campaign, I would think it would be safe to assume that the PCs would have story related 'options' when facing such a beast. Thus such a fight will be very different from a simply toe-to-toe with pre-generated characters.

[selunatic2397]

I still run a 1st edition game, with all it's warts and awesomness.

One of the best pieces of advice I got from my first DM was to never give stats to anything you didn't want your players to kill.

The insane amount of damage a party of high level adventurers can dish out in a single melee round ensures that if anything has stats...they will kill it!

It may take them a bit of time, but players will always kill anything that has stats.

Treerazer had stats...he fought the good fight...but he still died...

Heroes kill monsters...it's what they do...it's all they do.

I don't give my giants, dragons, outsiders, ecetera, any hit points...they die when it's either dramatically cataclysmic...or when I figure my players have beat on it enough...or I have hurt them enough!

They seem to enjoy it a bit more when a giant or dragon is more of a threat than the 1st edition dragon used to be...

[huge ancient red dragon=88 hit points and did an awesome breath weapon of...88 points...less if you beat on him and lowered its hit points].

It was darn embarassing to have a dragon that "bad" die on the third combat round!

[Algar Lysandris]

Human Female Witch 20

Feat of Note:
Spell penetration
Greater Spell Penetration
School Focus (Necro)
Greater School focus (Necro)
Improved Familiar
Accursed Hex
Spell perfection (stone to flesh)
Persistent spell
Piecing spell

Iem of note

Karma Bead
Rod Of quickend
Belt of Con +6
Headband of int +6
Wand of Ill Fortune (CL 4)
Ioun Stone that gives +1 CL

Intelligence of 36 (20 start+5 levels+6 item + 5 inherent)

Precast spell Moment of prescience (on you and familiar)

Round 1
(need to find a way to go first in initiative)

Witch Rdy action to hit with spells as soon as Dino is in range

spell readied: Elemental Swarm (just mostly for fun) + quickend (free)reach (+1) Persistent (+2) Piercing (+1)Enervation (4th =>8th) average -2 Neg levels (CL for SR= 20+ 2 (feat)+ 4 (karma bead) + 5 (Piercing) +1 Ioun stone => 32 (needs to roll of 4 or better)

Dino hit 1 Element and kills it (or not it doesn't really matter)

Round 2

Witch: quickend (free)reach (+1) Persistent (+2) Piercing (+1) curse Major (5th => 9th) DC Will 40 / CL for SR 32 needs a roll of 4 or better)

Dino has to make 2 ( 2 from persistent and an other 2 from ill fortune) Saves vs curse (needs a roll of 15 to make it (Will +25 (27-2 form neg levels). it is likely to fail

Curse is -4 to Saves

Witch standard action: Forced Reincanation Will DC 38 (dino needs to roll 19 or better) or Enernal Slumber or Death Curse (not sure his immunity on death effect applies) (Will DC 38 (dino needs to roll 19 or better) + Accursed Hex (dino could have to make a save in round 3)

at end of round 2 dino is either dead (reincanated in less powerfull body) or spleeping (if you need witch can use moment of precience anytime)

Or

Dire profecy (-10 to Save)

Round 3

(Spell perfection) Percistent Piercing Flesh to Stone => dino needs to make DC 36 Fort save (Dino has +18 Fort (+34 -2 Enervation -10 Dire Profecy - 4 Major Curse)

Dino Has to roll 18 or better

or
Witch: Mass suffocation on swarm of deamon Fort DC 39 (if dino has died on round 2)

Then cackles madly

ps (familiar could do stuff but not sure what)

[selunatic2397]

They have promised to stat up Baba Yaga at the end of Reign of winter...this does not bode well for her!

My players are really looking forward to the end game smack down.

[Algar Lysandris]

Same Witch as Treerazer is beeing teleported right after in front of selunatic baba Yaga

Round 1

Witch: Quicken (free) Piercing (+1) Intensified (+1) Empowered (+2) Ear Piercing scream [ 15d6 (average 45 dam) Sonic + Fort save Vs Dazzed that she is gonna pass easy + Waill of the banshee Fort DC 39 (250 hp straight untyped damaged)

she prolly dies as my guess she is at +low 20 ish fort save

or

quickend (free)reach (+1) Persistent (+2) Piercing (+1)Enervation (4th =>8th) average -2 Neg levels (CL for SR= 20+ 2 (feat)+ 4 (karma bead) + 5 (Piercing) +1 Ioun stone => 32

And Ice Tomb Hex DC 38 Fort (with a -2 en her base save from enervation)

She is now stuck in a nice ice cream Cone...

Or

Agony Hex DC 38 Fort or be nauseated for up to 10 round (she can save against hex at every round). YOu now have 10 round to lay Missfortune hex on round 2 (to make her reroll more - extend it with cackel and any other spell you wan to trough at her. as she is reduced to only move action and swift actions

Swift action (up to you)

because of accursed hex Baba need to reroll save a second time

[Rakshaka]

A few arguments against some of the builds I see:
-Melee: Can everyone make a DC 39 fortitude save every round? ...Cause if not, you're never going to close into melee with him. I'm talking about the combination of the 120' aura that turns everyone into a plant coupled with Anti-plant Shell. Let's assume you can Disjunction or Dispel it (Meaning you've got a full-caster in place of one of your melee hitters), he simply resumes it the next turn, probably coupled with a Time Stop and a repositioning Teleport next to the offending full-caster. Then he goes to town on the offending casty.
-Hexes: Pretty high DCs, but those all require you to get within 60' of him. He's also immune to Slumber (Mind-Affecting), and the Death Curse still gives three rounds to kill off the witch even if he fails. Also, with a Knowledge Arcana of +36, you can be damn sure he knows what a witch is and what their powers are, especially if a 20th level one came after him. Heck, with summon demons, he could already have a couple Nabassu sitting back ready to counter the Enervations with their own, or just cover themselves in Silence and sit next to the casters.
-How the fight even takes place would be up to Treerazer, since with his network of minions and telepathy of 300', he would be almost impossible to surprise. A +14 initative modifier is pretty substantial, and even if someone did get the drop on him and managed to get a good round on him, he would just teleport away.
I think it would take a well balanced party to contend with not just Treerazer but his host of demons that accompany him (besides the ones that he can summon). The 2d4 (average 5) hezrou might seem like an afterthought to people, until you see that they can collectively spam a 25d8 damage (avg 112 dmg) a turn to a group of good characters (like paladins) in the form of Unholy Blights.
...Just playing Treerazer's advocate. Not that he needs one.

Oh, and for my part, I would take the following, non of which would be lawful or good aligned.

-Ranger (Archery) 20
-Oracle (Heavens) 20
-Druid 20
-Wizard (Divination) 20

[Algar Lysandris]

@ Rakshasa

about the DC 39 Fort save: First of all i d'ont really need to save against the Aura of Corruption as it merly turn me into a plant like creature. with no really adverse effect. What i do need to save is against Defoliation (SA). in order to use it Treerazer need to use a Standart action and be within 30ft of me.

(so i can do it on round 2 of fight)
my Fort save would be 6 (base+5 item+5 from const + 25 (moment of prescience) = +41

therefore i Pass taking only 10d10 damage ( 50 hp average).

Witch hp is: 80 (base @ 4hp / level) + 100 (20 const) + 2D10+20 (greater false life) = 210 Hp average

So taking the hit isn't mutch of a prob on round 2 it Treerazer choose to use it standart to hit me with that.

Eternal Slumber Hex: isn't doesn't say in the text that it is a mind Affecting SU

"Eternal Slumber (Su): The witch can touch a creature, causing it to drift off into a permanent slumber. The creature receives a Will save to negate this effect. If the save fails, the creature falls asleep and cannot be woken. The effect can only be removed with a wish or similar magic, although slaying the witch ends the effect. The witch can use this ability to poison food or drink, causing those who ingest it to make a save or fall into an eternal slumber. She can only have one such dose of poison at any one time, and it loses its potency after 1 minute if not consumed. Whether or not the save is successful, a creature cannot be the target of this hex again for 1 day."

Now about Dino making a +36 Know Arcana to know what the nice and good looking Girl that just appeared 70feet away from him, wearing only nice and laced Dress? sure he can figure out that she is something, that she has some magic auras around her but she might be any type of spell caster (Oracle/cleric/wizard/Sorc/witch) kinda hard to figure exacly wat is what. For the sake of fun let just pretend for 1 min that he now she is an arcane spell caster. How does Dino know what power/hex does she has? and even if he knew (no 2 witches have exacly same Hex setp up / level)

Assuming that dino goes into fight mode (as his a bad Dino and wants to kill the freshly send sacrifice to him)

on round 1
he has to kill the elemental Swam (9th level spell). lets assume he kills them all

So far by round 1 Dino has taken little damage and has only been hit by an enervation spell.

Dino should feel confident to kill the lone girl by end of round 2 or 3.

Round 2

Dino Dies form forced Reincarnation or falls in eternal slumber or is under Death Curse (and will die in 3 rounds).

Dino still hasn't taken damage. so why would he teleport out of fight? (as he goes from beein full health to dead)

Witch teleports away.

even in the case that reinforcments appear near him (lets just say that he cass for the deamon helpers in round 1 - he hasn't choosed to use his summon demons SLA yet) they all teleport in fight area on round 2. and are ready to fight on round 3.

on round 3 remember that witch can cast mass suffocation DC 39 on all of said reinforcment. => they all die 3 rounds later. same time witch has teleported away.

for fun with could also use the stone to flesh routine and dino would die on round 3 (still not having taken any damage, so why would it flee on round 2?)

Dino would have basicaly the full round 2 to kill the witch. so it could choose to use Defoliation or it could time stop on round 2 to reposition next to witch and ull attack the poor AC 14 Girl.

All attacks hits (18d6+2d8+108+90from power attack) => 260 hp average (minus 150 hp from stoneskin) Dino does 110 hp on full round 2

Witch survives full round assault from dino with about 100 hp average.

then en round 3 Dino is a nice stone statue

[Teclathel Faulanrael]

Algar Lysandris wrote:

@ Rakshasa

about the DC 39 Fort save: First of all i d'ont really need to save against the Aura of Corruption as it merly turn me into a plant like creature. with no really adverse effect. What i do need to save is against Defoliation (SA). in order to use it Treerazer need to use a Standart action and be within 30ft of me.

(so i can do it on round 2 of fight)
my Fort save would be 6 (base+5 item+5 from const + 25 (moment of prescience) = +41

therefore i Pass taking only 10d10 damage ( 50 hp average).

Witch hp is: 80 (base @ 4hp / level) + 100 (20 const) + 2D10+20 (greater false life) = 210 Hp average

So taking the hit isn't mutch of a prob on round 2 it Treerazer choose to use it standart to hit me with that.

Eternal Slumber Hex: isn't doesn't say in the text that it is a mind Affecting SU

"Eternal Slumber (Su): The witch can touch a creature, causing it to drift off into a permanent slumber. The creature receives a Will save to negate this effect. If the save fails, the creature falls asleep and cannot be woken. The effect can only be removed with a wish or similar magic, although slaying the witch ends the effect. The witch can use this ability to poison food or drink, causing those who ingest it to make a save or fall into an eternal slumber. She can only have one such dose of poison at any one time, and it loses its potency after 1 minute if not consumed. Whether or not the save is successful, a creature cannot be the target of this hex again for 1 day."

Now about Dino making a +36 Know Arcana to know what the nice and good looking Girl that just appeared 70feet away from him, wearing only nice and laced Dress? sure he can figure out that she is something, that she has some magic auras around her but she might be any type of spell caster (Oracle/cleric/wizard/Sorc/witch) kinda hard to figure exacly wat is what. For the sake of fun let just pretend for 1 min that he now she is an arcane spell caster. How does Dino know what power/hex does she has? and even if he knew (no 2...

Sorry to necro an old post but I do believe you are missing some very crucial parts of Treerazer's stats and abilities. For instance, two of the three hexes you mentioned (forced reincarnation and death curse) wouldn't work since they technically employ death effects which he is immune to. As far as eternal slumber goes... it's save is 10 + 1/2 witch level + int modifier. So let's say your int mod is +10 (quite doable for a lvl 20 character). That means it's a DC 30 will save. With a will save of +27 you are looking a 10% chance of success with that hex. Even if you use that ability that forces him to save again the chance of success is still pretty dismal. That's not something you would really want to place your hopes on. Also, his stat block states that he uses time stop to summon in his minion hordes as well as kit himself out with antiplant shield. That last bit is important as it means that if you fail your fortitude save and he is protected from all of your attacks. The time stop also means that his minions are good to go on the first turn, rather than turn 3 (and he usually goes with 4 nalfeshnees and 12 hezrous). He also has quickened dispel magic to deal with any obvious magical effects (elemental swarm qualifies, although they take strength damage when they hit him and if they fail their fort saves then they are plant creatures and from the antiplant shield why would he care about them?). I'm sorry to say but even if you've kitted out your witch with awesome protective gear she is still in for a very uphill battle (and even then it might not be good for her). Now, if she was a mythic character then it would be possible for her to succeed (I have seen a lvl 18 arcanist/archmage 8 practically solo Baphomet by spamming mythic augmented maximized magic missiles).

On a side note, unless your witch possesses a weapon of greater artifact level then she cannot permanently kill Baba Yaga, as she is listed as a tier 10 archmage. And generally speaking a mythic character is NOT something a non-mythic character should ever want to fight. Those beatings are usually very quick and very brutal.