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Well since they were desperate enough to resurrect/release Rassilon, I'd guess all bets are off on what they might attempt.To say nothing of their suicide pact to destroy the entire universe.
(Wow, I am so off topic.)
It wasn't a suicide pact. It was Rassilon's (or at least so he believed) gambit to essentially turn the entire race into a race of Q's. at the expense of destroying all reality.
It's unfortunate that you feel that way about the Expanded Universe, it closes you off to a good body of work by authors even by many of the Who TV actors who leant themselves to much of the work.
Also, if I understand my friends that read the EU stuff and if I they are to be believed, the EU has had a pretty big influence on the new series. The Family of Blood storyline and the time war itself are both based on stores from the EU (though, as I said I haven't read them myself yet. I just have a friend who says that).
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Also, if I understand my friends that read the EU stuff and if I they are to be believed, the EU has had a pretty big influence on the new series. The Family of Blood storyline and the time war itself are both based on stores from the EU (though, as I said I haven't read them myself yet. I just have a friend who says that).
Family of Blood seems to me to mark the turning point of the 10th Doctor, that first tipping point of that process that led him to his Moment of Insanity in "The Waters of Mars". It's as Donna Noble said. He does need someone to "make him stop."
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Family of Blood seems to me to mark the turning point of the 10th Doctor, that first tipping point of that process that led him to his Moment of Insanity in "The Waters of Mars". It's as Donna Noble said. He does need someone to "make him stop."
Also, if I understand my friends that read the EU stuff and if I they are to be believed, the EU has had a pretty big influence on the new series. The Family of Blood storyline and the time war itself are both based on stores from the EU (though, as I said I haven't read them myself yet. I just have a friend who says that).
Prior to Nine, did the Doctor ever really get into revenge? I mean Four saw that for all the evil the Daleks did, good came out of them, and Seven even tried to save the Master in Survival.
Heck, Three's relationship with the Master really seemed to be 'what's a little genocide between friends?'
Prior to Nine, did the Doctor ever really get into revenge? I mean Four saw that for all the evil the Daleks did, good came out of them, and Seven even tried to save the Master in Survival.
Heck, Three's relationship with the Master really seemed to be 'what's a little genocide between friends?'
Sylvester McCoy's Doctor wiped out the entire Skaro system with the Hand of Omega because the Daleks just wouldn't take the hint.
He also wipes out an entire Cyberfleet in The Silver Nemesis because the Cybermen wouldn't go away and leave the Earth in peace. (Going so far as to lie to the Cyberleader through a lie of omission regarding the orders given to the Nemesis)
Come to think of it, McCoy's Doctor was pretty angry all around.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Prior to Nine, did the Doctor ever really get into revenge? I mean Four saw that for all the evil the Daleks did, good came out of them, and Seven even tried to save the Master in Survival.
Heck, Three's relationship with the Master really seemed to be 'what's a little genocide between friends?'
Sylvester McCoy's Doctor wiped out the entire Skaro system with the Hand of Omega because the Daleks just wouldn't take the hint.
He also wipes out an entire Cyberfleet in The Silver Nemesis because the Cybermen wouldn't go away and leave the Earth in peace. (Going so far as to lie to the Cyberleader through a lie of omission regarding the orders given to the Nemesis)
Come to think of it, McCoy's Doctor was pretty angry all around.
I forgot those (duh! Must, build DVD collection).
I remember him manipulating Ace (a lot!) and his interactions with Morgainne in Battlefield (still one of my favourites). I actually liked Seven almost as much as I like Four.
Come to think of it, Ten and Eleven both trade on their reputations to do horrible things as well.
Edit: In Seven's defense, did you ever hear Mel? That voice would make me angry.*
*
Sylvester McCoy's Doctor wiped out the entire Skaro system with the Hand of Omega because the Daleks just wouldn't take the hint.He also wipes out an entire Cyberfleet in The Silver Nemesis because the Cybermen wouldn't go away and leave the Earth in peace. (Going so far as to lie to the Cyberleader through a lie of omission regarding the orders given to the Nemesis)
Come to think of it, McCoy's Doctor was pretty angry all around.
*sigh* I loved McCoy's Doctor....
It wasn't a suicide pact. It was Rassilon's (or at least so he believed) gambit to essentially turn the entire race into a race of Q's. at the expense of destroying all reality.The fact that he believed his plan do destroy all of reality would lead to an afterlife beyond the constraints of time and space didn't make it any less of a suicide pact.
(Incidentally, did anyone else find it telling that Rassilon's plan to turn Time Lords into the ultimate race by erasing all of time with the End of Time Itself was essentially the exact same as Davros's plan to turn Daleks into the ultimate race by erasing all of space with his Reality Bomb?)
Also vaguely similar to the human's plan with the Osterhagen Key in Stolen Earth. Sure, they didn't plan to ascend or anything, but the concept of "Let's blow ourselves up along everyone else!" seemed to often pop up with Davies.
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Family of Blood seems to me to mark the turning point of the 10th Doctor, that first tipping point of that process that led him to his Moment of Insanity in "The Waters of Mars". It's as Donna Noble said. He does need someone to "make him stop."
Also, if I understand my friends that read the EU stuff and if I they are to be believed, the EU has had a pretty big influence on the new series. The Family of Blood storyline and the time war itself are both based on stores from the EU (though, as I said I haven't read them myself yet. I just have a friend who says that).
Prior to Nine, did the Doctor ever really get into revenge? I mean Four saw that for all the evil the Daleks did, good came out of them, and Seven even tried to save the Master in Survival.
Heck, Three's relationship with the Master really seemed to be 'what's a little genocide between friends?'
Well even the Master was of a more affable temperament back then. But you also have to remember that between the Old Series and the New Series was a pretty traumatic event (which I assume took place during the Ninth Doctor's tenure)... The Time War and the Doctor's decision to destroy his own people and the Daleks alike.
Well even the Master was of a more affable temperament back then. But you also have to remember that between the Old Series and the New Series was a pretty traumatic event (which I assume took place during the Ninth Doctor's tenure)... The Time War and the Doctor's decision to destroy his own people and the Daleks alike.
I thought the Time War happened during the Eighth Doctor's adventures because Nine acts as though he had just regenerated at the beginning of Rose (though I supposed he could have done it just a few minutes before he see him....)
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I thought the Time War happened during the Eighth Doctor's adventures because Nine acts as though he had just regenerated at the beginning of Rose (though I supposed he could have done it just a few minutes before he see him....)
Well even the Master was of a more affable temperament back then. But you also have to remember that between the Old Series and the New Series was a pretty traumatic event (which I assume took place during the Ninth Doctor's tenure)... The Time War and the Doctor's decision to destroy his own people and the Daleks alike.
That's what I was wondering too. Do we know if it was Eight or Nine who pushed 'the big red button'. I just think if it was Eight, and the event triggered the regeneration into Nine, that would cause a bit of trauma.
(Personally I liked Nine, and wish Eccelston would have stayed with the role longer)
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(Personally I liked Nine, and wish Eccelston would have stayed with the role longer)
p.s. Not sure how well the link will work outside the UK...
** spoiler omitted **** spoiler omitted **
(Personally I liked Nine, and wish Eccelston would have stayed with the role longer)
yea that story has long circulated.
I knew about Eccleston from the Nic Cage Gone in 60 Seconds remake
And from the rather poor movie version of Susan Cooper's The Dark Is Rising.
I though he was capable of being a much more dark and vengeful Dr than David.
I though he was capable of being a much more dark and vengeful Dr than David.
I dunno. Eccleston's Doctor was certainly angry, but he was also very sad and remorseful. He was going through what I have had referred to as the "reactionary grief" stage of trauma - Whereas Tennant's Doctor was very much the "lashing out" stage.
I mean, Eccleston did some pretty harsh things (Cassandra, anyone?), but Tennant was just BLEAK when he got mean. Just look at the Family of Blood.
That was up there with destroying the entire Skaro system, really.
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To head back towards the original topic, after watching The Day of the Moon ** spoiler omitted **** spoiler omitted **
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I thought the Time War happened during the Eighth Doctor's adventures because Nine acts as though he had just regenerated at the beginning of Rose (though I supposed he could have done it just a few minutes before he see him....)
Well even the Master was of a more affable temperament back then. But you also have to remember that between the Old Series and the New Series was a pretty traumatic event (which I assume took place during the Ninth Doctor's tenure)... The Time War and the Doctor's decision to destroy his own people and the Daleks alike.
I see it as occuring during Nine's tenure because it seems more immediate for him. In certain ways, the various incarnations of the Doctor ARE different people, at least that's how Ten saw it. Nine also seems more likely to be the guy who'd personally pull the trigger on his own people than Eight.
The other main reason is that Eight is simply not part of Russel Davie's work while the Time War and Nine are.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I thought the Time War happened during the Eighth Doctor's adventures because Nine acts as though he had just regenerated at the beginning of Rose (though I supposed he could have done it just a few minutes before he see him....)
Well even the Master was of a more affable temperament back then. But you also have to remember that between the Old Series and the New Series was a pretty traumatic event (which I assume took place during the Ninth Doctor's tenure)... The Time War and the Doctor's decision to destroy his own people and the Daleks alike.I see it as occuring during Nine's tenure because it seems more immediate for him. In certain ways, the various incarnations of the Doctor ARE different people, at least that's how Ten saw it. Nine also seems more likely to be the guy who'd personally pull the trigger on his own people than Eight.
The other main reason is that Eight is simply not part of Russel Davie's work while the Time War and Nine are.
Ah, I lean more towards it being Eight in that 1) he's a convienent scapegoat in that he's a blank slate in the (televised) canon and 2) When given a chance to blow up 'all' the Daleks, himself, and Earth (but knowing humanity would survive elsewhere) he chose not to. I'd think if he wiped out his own people to kill the Daleks, he'd have fewer qualms about nuking Earth.
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I lean more towards 8th because of THIS
I find much of that history kind of suspect especially the idea of a President Romana given that she stranded herself in E-Space specifically to avoid going back to Galifrey. A lot of the Expanded Universe material is good but fitting it into the series continuity is a bit dodgy. I find that it keeps more with Nine's essential moodiness for him to have been the one (along with Ten who would finish the job) to have pushed the red button on his own people.
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Ah, I lean more towards it being Eight in that 1) he's a convienent scapegoat in that he's a blank slate in the (televised) canon and 2) When given a chance to blow up 'all' the Daleks, himself, and Earth (but knowing humanity would survive elsewhere) he chose not to. I'd think if he wiped out his own people to kill the Daleks, he'd have fewer qualms about nuking Earth.
It's actually the other way around. The Doctor is like Marvel's Thor, he'd definitely prioritize Midgard over his own homeland.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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It's actually the other way around. The Doctor is like Marvel's Thor, he'd definitely prioritize Midgard over his own homeland.
Ah, I lean more towards it being Eight in that 1) he's a convienent scapegoat in that he's a blank slate in the (televised) canon and 2) When given a chance to blow up 'all' the Daleks, himself, and Earth (but knowing humanity would survive elsewhere) he chose not to. I'd think if he wiped out his own people to kill the Daleks, he'd have fewer qualms about nuking Earth.
I know that's true for 20th century Earth, but in the time of Bad Wolf, humans weren't just on the earth anymore.
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I know that's true for 20th century Earth, but in the time of Bad Wolf, humans weren't just on the earth anymore.It's actually the other way around. The Doctor is like Marvel's Thor, he'd definitely prioritize Midgard over his own homeland.
Ah, I lean more towards it being Eight in that 1) he's a convienent scapegoat in that he's a blank slate in the (televised) canon and 2) When given a chance to blow up 'all' the Daleks, himself, and Earth (but knowing humanity would survive elsewhere) he chose not to. I'd think if he wiped out his own people to kill the Daleks, he'd have fewer qualms about nuking Earth.
But given that Earth is a major nexus point of time for all of Human history, it's still the priority for him to preserve... by his own measure.
I think a lot of people have missed the point. I think the main question is not necessarily who River Song is, or who the astronaut is, but who did River Song kill? "He was a very good man" is all she will say about it.
Sylvester McCoy's Doctor wiped out the entire Skaro system with the Hand of Omega because the Daleks just wouldn't take the hint.
He also wipes out an entire Cyberfleet in The Silver Nemesis because the Cybermen wouldn't go away and leave the Earth in peace. (Going so far as to lie to the Cyberleader through a lie of omission regarding the orders given to the Nemesis)
Come to think of it, McCoy's Doctor was pretty angry all around.
God he was awesome!!!
The era of Ace where he armed her with a Gallifreyan enhanced baseball bat and then set her loose on the daleks!
Used an override to immobilise the daleks to save her neck, in the nemesis as I recall the villainess had an archer cohort who "just" happened to be armed with gold tipped arrows!!!
And after that was resolved he returned the archer cohort to his own time and even went for a quick trip to the pub!
As for Battlefield I really loved the Brigadier in that serial!
What about silver bullets the doctor asked.
Get some asap! asks the Brigadier once he checks!!!
(Personally I liked Nine, and wish Eccelston would have stayed with the role longer)
Me too!
Sylvester McCoy's Doctor wiped out the entire Skaro system with the Hand of Omega because the Daleks just wouldn't take the hint.
He also wipes out an entire Cyberfleet in The Silver Nemesis because the Cybermen wouldn't go away and leave the Earth in peace. (Going so far as to lie to the Cyberleader through a lie of omission regarding the orders given to the Nemesis)
Come to think of it, McCoy's Doctor was pretty angry all around.
God he was awesome!!!
The era of Ace where he armed her with a Gallifreyan enhanced baseball bat and then set her loose on the daleks!
Used an override to immobilise the daleks to save her neck, in the nemesis as I recall the villainess had an archer cohort who "just" happened to be armed with gold tipped arrows!!!
And after that was resolved he returned the archer cohort to his own time and even went for a quick trip to the pub!
As for Battlefield I really loved the Brigadier in that serial!
What about silver bullets the doctor asked.
Get some asap! asks the Brigadier once he checks!!!
The last of the McCoy episodes Battlefield and Curse of Fenric are two of my all time favorites....
You would be angry and slightly psychotic too if you had been forced to travel with Mel as a companion.
Or is the one who is actually killed by the astonaut.
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I'm going to put forth a wacky theory that most of you will immediately discount...
River Song is an original character, and not related to any previous characters. She's not Amy's daughter, the Rani, the Doctor from the future, or the little girl from the astronaut suit, etc. The "good man" that she killed/will kill is some bloke we haven't seen before.
I'm going to put forth a wacky theory that most of you will immediately discount...
River Song is an original character, and not related to any previous characters. She's not Amy's daughter, the Rani, the Doctor from the future, or the little girl from the astronaut suit, etc. The "good man" that she killed/will kill is some bloke we haven't seen before.
I'm wondering whether the good man she was talking about isn't a good man from "our" point of view!
After all we don't actually know why they kidnapped Amy nor who her child is supposed to be used against, then again surely they'd have realised this would really anger someone whose known for taking on overwhelming numbers of daleks practically single handed and winning now how can I emphasize that last bit?
Tropes has a really interesting note about small blue boxes which involve not bothering about the planet and running away as fast as you can as if an angry god was chasing which as it mentioned he probably is!
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I'm going to put forth a wacky theory that most of you will immediately discount...
River Song is an original character, and not related to any previous characters. She's not Amy's daughter, the Rani, the Doctor from the future, or the little girl from the astronaut suit, etc. The "good man" that she killed/will kill is some bloke we haven't seen before.
I'm wondering whether the good man she was talking about isn't a good man from "our" point of view!
After all we don't actually know why they kidnapped Amy nor who her child is supposed to be used against, then again surely they'd have realised this would really anger someone whose known for taking on overwhelming numbers of daleks practically single handed and winning now how can I emphasize that last bit?
Tropes has a really interesting note about small blue boxes which involve not bothering about the planet and running away as fast as you can as if an angry god was chasing which as it mentioned he probably is!
Not sure if I saw this here or elsewhere, but aparently Moffet has stated that the Dr *can't* keep doing that. The inkling is that this is the setup for where e discovers that fact. I.e. The tactic doesn't work, and he loses, big.
Its official. River Song is ...
** spoiler omitted **
As I suspected from episode 1. I was hoping SM would wrong-foot me on that one. Still, looking forward to September.
Cheers
Mark
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Its official. River Song is ...
** spoiler omitted **
- Jack - a time traveller in the own right, and although he dosn't regenerate in the Time Lord sense he has (because of his involvement with the Doctor) become almost immortal.
- Jenny - genetically a Time Lord, not known if she can regenerate but has come back from the dead, not a time-traveller but has rushed off to explore the universe.
- River/Melody - Human/Time Lord hybrid (sort of), time traveler in her own right, it's implied that she can probably regenerate.
Plus the clone in another universe with Rose, and the Flesh, and probably a couple of others I've forgotten about.
Is he essentially recreating the Time Lords in something closer to his own image?
Rewinding to the Seventh Doctor this certainly feels inspired by aspects of the Cartmel Masterplan, with The Other surviving from a previous universe (for example one rebooted by Big-Banging the Pandorica), founding the Time Lords, and subsequently being reincarnated as the Doctor a few thousand years later.
Good grief, it's all so clear... Susan was Elluvia Maure... it explains everything... *wanders*off*to*go*mad*
Its official. River Song is ...
** spoiler omitted **** spoiler omitted **
Good grief, it's all so clear... Susan was Elluvia Maure... it explains everything... *wanders*off*to*go*mad*
It was stated in the Virgin NA writers bible that the Doctor was not The Other...but of course that holds little water now.
Don't forget Donna has absorbed some Time Lord DNA, thanks to the meta-crisis ...but she must never know!. Although if she does a fresh cup of tea and some Marmite on toast might stop her brain from exploding for an adventure or two....
Cheers
Mark
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Paradox question
Time travel makes my head hurt.
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Well you have to take into consideration that...
I do always love the gag they have of making you think they're talking about the Doctor when they're really talking about Rory though. Makes me chuckle every time.
Well you have to take into consideration that...
** spoiler omitted **
Crazy off the top of the head thought...
I am wondering if the Silence are the whats left of the Time Lords hideously warped after escaping the time lock?
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Why is everyone SO convinced the Silents are behind everything. I've seen absolutely nothing to suggest that Eyepatch Lady is working for them, that they had anything to do with Amy's kidnapping, or anything similar. I wouldn't be overly suprised if the Silent's part in the overall meta-plot is largely over.