Karate Kid (Val Armorr) is a fictional character, a superhero in the future of the DC Comics universe, and a member of the Legion of Super-Heroes. He is a master of every form of martial arts to have been developed by the 31st Century. The extent of his skill is so great that he can severely damage various types of hard material with a single blow and was briefly able to hold his own against Superboy through use of what he called "Super Karate".
Karate Kid is the master of every documented form of martial arts to have been developed up to the 31st Century. He possesses the ability to sense the weakest spot in an object and his skill in hand-to-hand combat is seemingly superhuman, allowing him to simulate super-strength blows. He can severely damage extremely hard and strong materials — metals, stone, etc. — with a single blow. Karate Kid is also skilled with melee weapons, though he dislikes using them and rarely needs to use them. He even occasionally fights Supergirl though he is regularly beaten by her. Karate Kid's training included mental discipline which makes him more resistant to mind control.
Iron Fist (Daniel "Danny" Rand) is a fictional character, a comic book superhero in the Marvel Comics Universe, and a practitioner of martial arts. Created by Roy Thomas and Gil Kane, he first appeared in Marvel Premiere #15 (May 1974). The character starred in his own solo series in the 1970s, and shared the title Power Man and Iron Fist for several years.
Plunging his fists into the molten heart of the dragon Shou-Lao the Undying infused the dragon's superhuman energy into Rand; this along with training by Lei Kung the Thunderer gave Rand the power of the Iron Fist, allowing him to summon and focus his chi (or natural energy) and enhance his natural abilities to extraordinary levels. His strength, speed, stamina, durability, agility, and reflexes and senses can all be astronomically intensified, making his already formidable martial arts skills even more so.
The ultimate expression of this focus is the ability to concentrate his body's natural energies into his hand, manifesting as a supernatural glow around his clenched fist, making his fist "like unto a thing of iron." So concentrated, this "iron fist" can smash into its target with superhuman hardness and impact, while his hand becomes impervious to pain and injury. However, the feat of summoning the power required leaves Rand physically and mentally drained, unable to repeat the act for a time, as long as even an entire day in certain instances. Such ability is described as "quasi-mystical".
Other applications of the Iron Fist power include the ability to focus chi energy inward to heal oneself or outward to heal others of injury, as well as the ability to telepathically fuse his consciousness temporarily with another person and meld with that person's mind. In Maximum Carnage, Rand was able to use the mental application of the Iron Fist to temporarily calm a rioting mob. When asked about this by Spider-Man, Rand replied that all humans are, in essence, one divine being, in a constant craving for that oneness, and once it is offered, it cannot be refused. When asked by Spider-Man how long it would take to learn this "meditative technique", Rand replied, "Eight or ten years."
Orson Randall, Rand's predecessor as Iron Fist, demonstrated applications including hypnosis and channeling his chi energy into projectile weapons to increase their destructive capacity. Randall also showed enhanced resistance to injury, including resilience to poison gas dropped on his fellow combatants in the trenches of World War I, and a greatly slowed aging process. Although almost one hundred years old by the time he encountered Daniel Rand, he demonstrated physical vitality commensurate with a highly-trained martial artist half his age. Rand has presumably acquired powers and abilities at least equivalent to Orson Randall's — though not necessarily the skill to control them — thanks to combining Randall's chi energy with his own. He is also in possession of the Book of the Iron Fist, study of which will greatly expand his kung fu skills.
Rand displayed what he had learned from Orson Randall regarding alternative applications of the Iron Fist when he was able to extend his chi from his fist into the electromagnetic field of the train intended to destroy K'un Lun, transforming himself into "a human bullet." Despite the train being loaded down with "enough raw explosives to make Hiroshima look like a sparkler", Rand was able to destroy the train, and survive the massive explosion virtually unharmed.
Even without the Iron Fist, Rand is a master of all of K'un Lun's martial arts and many of Earth's, making him easily one of the most skilled practitioners of unarmed combat in the Marvel Universe.
Initially, the Karate Kid would dominate the fight. He is the absolute master of all forms of martial arts in 31st century of Earth, including Iron Fist’s. Prior to the fight he studied all of Daniel Rand’s moves, and developed counters to them. Whatever move that Iron Fist uses, the Karate Kid would have a counter to it. It would look like a master fighting a student, and it would seem that Val Armorr would easily win this contest.
HOWEVER, unlike the Karate Kid, Iron Fist has superpowers. First, he would focus his chi energy to temporarily calm down the Karate Kid. That would give him the seconds he needs to summon the Iron Fist, the ultimate expression of his chi/natural energy, and he would strike down the Karate Kid. He would not kill him; just knock him out, because Iron Fist would have too much respect for Val. Also, the Karate Kid would not be surprised that he was defeated, because he read about it in the computer files of the 31st century.
Ralph Macchio would kick both their asses. And he's probably gonna win Dancing with the Stars!
1) Ralph Macchio's character in the "Karate Kid" films wouldn't last 1 second v. the real Karate Kid and/or Iron Fist.
2) Ralph Macchio doesn't stand a chance in Hell of winning "Dancing with the Stars"! Kristie Alley will win it in a landslide...literally, due to her weight.
Good one!
I am unsure who would win, actually. Quite possibly Iron Fist, if only because I do not think we have seen Karate Kid fight too much over the years. Ime, his scenes were stolen by Timber Wolf in terms of hand to hand combat, and the character has a bad history of being martyred in storylines where he plays a pivotal role. While I am not sure whether or not Danny would be able to hip throw Superboy, i do think he would be able to beat Karate Kid in a close fight.
Dayum Leafar, now you're reaching, man. That's just sad.
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Ralphie boy'd just crane technique 'em to death.
If do right, no can defense!
And, if they somehow did give him trouble, he'd just call up the ghost of Mr. Miyagi to give him a hand.
As for Kirstie Alley - don't make me laugh. She's got as much chance of winning DwtS as William Shatner has of playing Jimmy Olsen in the new Superman movie!
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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HOWEVER, unlike the Karate Kid, Iron Fist has superpowers.
Strangely, though, Karate Kid was offered membership in an organization where every member has to have super powers. How did that happen? Oh, right, his mastery of martial arts was considered so extreme that it counted as a super power*. He's fought Superboy to a draw.
So, imagine Danny Rand versus Superboy. Iron Fist makes with the glowy fist, and hits Superboy with a fist like a thing of iron! Do you imagine Superboy will flinch? Do you imagine Iron Fist will have an adequate defense against heat vision, or superspeed?
* Granted, to get into the LSH, powers like "bounces" and "makes things weigh less" count.
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Sorry Leafar. Calming Karate Kid down only makes him more dangerous. As demonstrated by Mon El's reaction to being sambooed into another solar system.
Also, he has your belt.
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He's fought Superboy to a draw.
So, imagine Danny Rand versus Superboy. Iron Fist makes with the glowy fist, and hits Superboy with a fist like a thing of iron! Do you imagine Superboy will flinch? Do you imagine Iron Fist will have an adequate defense against heat vision, or superspeed?
Actually, he has fought Superboy, Mon-El, AND Ultraboy AT THE SAME time and held his own. Iron Fist goes down. Not even a question.
I can't believe I posted to one of these rediculous threads. I feel dirtier than a hobo the day before washing day.
EDIT: if you want a Marvel Martial artist who has a chance at KK, go with Karnak of the Inhumans. Although, I think he'd probably take one look at KK and say "Hmmn. No weakness. I conceed."
He's fought Superboy to a draw.
So, imagine Danny Rand versus Superboy. Iron Fist makes with the glowy fist, and hits Superboy with a fist like a thing of iron! Do you imagine Superboy will flinch? Do you imagine Iron Fist will have an adequate defense against heat vision, or superspeed?
Actually, he has fought Superboy, Mon-El, AND Ultraboy AT THE SAME time and held his own. Iron Fist goes down. Not even a question.
I can't believe I posted to one of these rediculous threads. I feel dirtier than a hobo the day before washing day.
EDIT: if you want a Marvel Martial artist who has a chance at KK, go with Karnak of the Inhumans. Although, I think he'd probably take one look at KK and say "Hmmn. No weakness. I conceed."
It pains me to disagree, but I must. As cool as kk fighting all of the kryptonians is, i still contend that that is more storyline than actual power. He has not had many defeats largely due to writers genuinely liking the character, he has received savage beatings when the writer was not a fan. I am not saying Danny would be up for a soda afterwards like nothing happened, but I still have to give it to him.
Iron Fist wins because "plunges fists into dragon heart" is way cooler than "practiced."
Also, DC is lame.
You look familiar....
EDIT: if you want a Marvel Martial artist who has a chance at KK, go with Karnak of the Inhumans. Although, I think he'd probably take one look at KK and say "Hmmn. No weakness. I conceed."
I would actually like to see a Karnak Lady Shiva throwdown. Karnak looking for weakness Shiva doing her I must test all great martial artists thing.
Karate Kid wins by a landside because I want him too and I'm a huge Legion fan. Besides he's so good, he can dodge lightning bolts.
Karate Kid wins by a landside because I want him too and I'm a huge Legion fan. Besides he's so good, he can dodge lightning bolts.
Eileen! I was hoping you would post here. Isn't there an early story where he cracked a planet with a well placed strike?
Greg
Oh, and I go with K.K. as well. Saying he has no powers and "only" just studied doesn't work for me. It's like saying Dr. Strange only studied magic and isn't as good as someone inherently magical. Besides, KarateKid's significant other is really hawt.
Greg
Edit: and Eileen is a huge fan. Fandom plays an important part.
Karate Kid wins by a landside because I want him too and I'm a huge Legion fan. Besides he's so good, he can dodge lightning bolts.
I don't recall such a story in the original LSH, but if its anywhere in Legion comics I shall find it. I know that Mano destroyed a planet with one touch of his hand though. Bad guy, all the way through.
I removed a post. Be civil.
You don't think Luke Cage is hot? ;-)Besides, KarateKid's significant other is really hawt.
Greg
Sweet Christmas!!!! Of course he's hot... how could anyone resist that yellow disco shirt! ;)
Hmm Karate Kid strikes me as a remake of the Inhuman Karnak; same same Karnak can also find your weakness and use any strength you have against you. Iron fist is good; but Karnak is better; but really I think a better fight would be against Shang Chi; Master of Kung Fu who was taught every martial art up to the 20th century; even Spidey met both and said nice things about both; so hard to say. Master of Kung Fu is the longest running series of a solo martial artist; 128 comics; and yes, I have them. He didnt have powers; but had amazing skill and defeated lots of powered individuals; granted none of the titans of the marvel universe; but makes you think; who would win between some of these guys; Daredevil; Karnak; Shang Chi (before he had cancer) Iron Fist; Black Widow. Capt A. knows many styles of martial arts also; but has that super soldier serum going for him; could we throw him in as well; he has taken punches from the Hulk and doubt many other on this list could.
I dont know very much about KK; so dont know how to rate him. I think DC charactes in general are much tougher than Marvel characters as there are a lot more Superman type characters than there are Bouncing Boy and Green Arrow type characters. Throw downs among martial artists; might as well throw in Batman; could KK beat Batman? Batman is crazy and can kick a bigger than man sized thickness tree in half and is great fighter with solid attacks and defenses.
Any more great martial artists out there I dont have off the top of my head.
Iron Fist was trained by the Thunderer; who was his master and I dont think IF can beat him; but he might be a dragon in human form; I think the dragon that gives IF his magnitude of manifesting Chi Power. Iron fist can only use his Iron Fist a couple times; it gets weaker each time; never got to see Danny hit the Hulk with it fresh and powered up; on his forth use in a day; Hulk just ignored it. That would have been a measure as most guys in Marvel have tangled with the Hulk and most martial artists on this list couldnt hurt him. Batman couldnt hurt the Hulk; could Karate Kid?
Hmm Karate Kid strikes me as a remake of the Inhuman Karnak; same same Karnak can also find your weakness and use any strength you have against you. Iron fist is good; but Karnak is better; but really I think a better fight would be against Shang Chi; Master of Kung Fu who was taught every martial art up to the 20th century; even Spidey met both and said nice things about both; so hard to say. Master of Kung Fu is the longest running series of a solo martial artist; 128 comics; and yes, I have them. He didnt have powers; but had amazing skill and defeated lots of powered individuals; granted none of the titans of the marvel universe; but makes you think; who would win between some of these guys; Daredevil; Karnak; Shang Chi (before he had cancer) Iron Fist; Black Widow. Capt A. knows many styles of martial arts also; but has that super soldier serum going for him; could we throw him in as well; he has taken punches from the Hulk and doubt many other on this list could.
I dont know very much about KK; so dont know how to rate him. I think DC charactes in general are much tougher than Marvel characters as there are a lot more Superman type characters than there are Bouncing Boy and Green Arrow type characters. Throw downs among martial artists; might as well throw in Batman; could KK beat Batman? Batman is crazy and can kick a bigger than man sized thickness tree in half and is great fighter with solid attacks and defenses.
Any more great martial artists out there I dont have off the top of my head.
Iron Fist was trained by the Thunderer; who was his master and I dont think IF can beat him; but he might be a dragon in human form; I think the dragon that gives IF his magnitude of manifesting Chi Power. Iron fist can only use his Iron Fist a couple times; it gets weaker each time; never got to see Danny hit the Hulk with it fresh and powered up; on his forth use in a day; Hulk just ignored it. That would have been a measure as most guys in Marvel have tangled with the Hulk and most martial artists on this...
The Karate Kid would defeat Shang Chi. Both are normal humans trained to the peak of conditioning, and both are the master of martial arts in their centuries. But, the Karate Kid is a peak human for the 31st century, which means he is super powered compared to Shang Chi. Also, I have to imagine that martial arts has developed in the 1,000 years from the 21st to the 31st century.
How does Karate Kid rate in DC; is the the best of the best? martial fighter? I wouldnt call Iron Fist the best of the best martial fighters in Marvel; that would be Champion, an eternal who fights in gladitorial combat all the time, by a long shot; doubt IF could touch him. Never saw Karnac and IF go at it either. Guess I will have to look around at Karate Kids stats and compare him to Batman as I dont know any other martial artists in DC.
Just did a lot of reading on Karate Kid; man; talk about a lot of reboots of a character; sheesh.
Just did a lot of reading on Karate Kid; man; talk about a lot of reboots of a character; sheesh.
Yet another reason why I think IF would win- KK's just had waaaay too many reboots, it's hard to determine exactly which version of Karate Kid one would be fighting. They also have slightly varying levels of skill, imho.
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Karate Kid's superhero code name is just 'Karate Kid,' not 'The Karate Kid.'
'The Karate Kid' is, as already mentioned upthread, Ralph Macchio.
Iron Fist would mangle Ralph Macchio. Probably, Will Smith's kid, too.
As for Danny Rand vs. Val Armorr, who knows. If Keith Giffen wrote it, Danny Rand would kill him by accident, because Keith Giffen has bragged about how great it was that he got to kill him twice, and wished he could do it again.
Various factors;
*Karate Kid mastered dozens, if not hundreds, of martial arts, from many different worlds, on the planet Lythyl, which we later discovered has extradimensional pockets located outside of time and space, allowing people who train there to spend virtual decades in training, without getting any older or missing any time in the real world.
*Iron Fist has mastered an exotic martial art form that could be said to be the root art behind all others, therefore making a master of K'un Lun fighting automatically better than a master of any other art form, *and* he's got super-powers.
*Karate Kid has ridiculous amounts of training fighting other superhumans, even being shown catching Kryptonian based superhumans off guard for a moment. (Which, comparatively, would be like Iron Fist catching the Sentry off-guard and throwing him down or holding him helpless.)
*Iron Fist occasionally pulls new powers out of his butt, when confronted with extreme situations, such as healing, surrounding himself with an energy aura, and coming back from the dead.
Any one of these factors could be used to justify one or the other winning in a match-up.
But I'd give it to Val, because Iron Fist has the same powers as Sho'Nuff, the Shogun of Harlem, and we all know what happened to him.
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Am I the meanest?
Sho’Nuff!
Am I the prettiest?
Sho’Nuff!
Am I the baddest mo-fo, low-down, around this town?
Sho’Nuff!
Well, who am I?
Sho’Nuff!
Who am I?
Sho’Nuff!
I can’t hear you!
Sho’Nuff!
The Shogun of Harlem!
But Daniel-san would totally kick all their asses! He'd Crane Technique 'em! If do right, no can defense!
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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But Daniel-san would totally kick all their asses! He'd Crane Technique 'em! If do right, no can defense!
Having learned that kick (w/o the stupid arm thing) in Tae Kwon Do decades ago. I laughed my aft off in the second movie when he does the crane thing and gets knocked on his butt.
