All right, I'm driving over to to Heathy's house right now to open the windows and save him from whatever dangerous fumes are welling up over there in Mesquite. I just hope I'm not too late.
It's all good. Me and my tas-tee pie.
I get rambunctious sometimes.
NO U
Damn. They've wafted down to Houston already? What could it be! Thank God the center of Dallas is still okay.
Some quotes to describe this thread
"Nay, allow the claim of the dead; stab not the fallen; what prowess is it to slay the slain anew?"
Sophocles' Antigone
YES!!! YES!!!
SOMETIMES, ONLY WHEN YOU'VE (figuratively) GOUGED OUT YOUR OWN EYES WITH KNITTING NEEDLES AND THEY'RE DRIBBLING IN YOUR BEARD CAN YOU SEE!!!Not gonna bone me mum tho.
It's all good. Me and my tas-tee pie.
I get rambunctious sometimes.
::Finishes pulling the visual nerves hanging out of his sockets::
I...I...I SEE NOW MASTER! I SEE!
AHAHAHAHAHA!!!
::Looks down at eyeballs::
Well, I guess we could use them for Be- I mean, Eye Tyrant miniatures.
Just flag it and move on, guys.
And the ol' Ignore List.
That's crucial, though. It has to be fought out to the bitter end. As humans, we have to answer these questions.The only questions that could actually be settled on one side in this thread, however, would be settled through violence.
Alright, if you insist. *Goes and gets his violence*
What's that maxim...."anything science fiction can imagine will be possible in 40 years?..." something like that....
And it's total crap. Total, disappointing crap! WHERE ARE MY FLYING CARS? WE WERE PROMISED JET PACKS! THIS MORNING, I DIDN'T FLY TO THE MOON FOR COFFEE AND DONUTS!
And we're basically living in the future right now. 2011! That's actually years after the future! I remember when things like "Killyfier 2000" was a totally futuristic name for something you wanted to sound totally futuristic. But today, it's yesterday's jam.
What a letdown!
Wouldn't it be cool if there was a "Judge of teh interwebz" somewhere to look at douchy threads, and say "okay, you lose. Here's why...." so people would stfu? And if you lost in interwebz court, you had to have your fingers sewn together so you couldn't type for a month until the stitching disintegrated.
There totally is. It's me. You lose, because you didn't know that.
Here is how I am moving towards "unity". I just ordered the D&D board games: Wrath of Ashardalon and Castle Ravenloft. So there is my peace offering to WotC, hopefully they will not disappoint me.
CR was definitely worth it to me (preorder price), but the rules sure need to be rewritten.
CR was definitely worth it to me (preorder price), but the rules sure need to be rewritten.
What's CR?
Yes, Castle Ravenloft.
CR was definitely worth it to me (preorder price), but the rules sure need to be rewritten.What's CR?
Never mind him; he's from some other country.....New Jersey or something. He doesn't get our colloquialisms.
Here is how I am moving towards "unity". I just ordered the D&D board games: Wrath of Ashardalon and Castle Ravenloft. So there is my peace offering to WotC, hopefully they will not disappoint me.
Well if that's the case, I too have already taken steps toward unity!
Bugleyman,.....you had the same taste of anger in your mouth over the whole......debacle/fiasco/I'm really searching for a more diplomatic term to call this whole 4e thing.
Yes and no. WotC has had some bone-headed failures (the GSL, killing PDFs, DDI flailing, ETC.), and has lost me as a customer as a result. I don't personally count the 4E advertising as one of those failures, though I understand others may.
However:
1. Calling the advertising "offensive" is a stretch. Don't get me wrong -- some people were clearly offended. The thing is, one would be hard-pressed to name anything that hasn't offended someone, somewhere.
2. I don't believe Scott is being given a fair-shake on this thread. Further, I believe the behavior of some over-zealous posters is making for a downright hostile environment.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: WotC didn't set out to give anyone the finger. Never attribute to malic what can be adequately explained by stupidity.
2. I don't believe Scott is being given a fair-shake on this thread. Further, I believe the behavior of some over-zealous posters is making for a downright hostile environment.
I've long since grown a thick enough skin to deal with the hostility. It's unfortunately a side-effect of being a fan of two companies when the fans of one see the other as the industry's very own BBEG. I'm more concerned about the sort of environment this creates for those who might come to check Paizo's community out despite being a fan of WotC.
I've given some thought to WotC's past mistakes, and I've started to realize that WotC is actually pretty good about fixing the mistakes it makes. Eventually. It just takes them forever. I think that if there's one thing that they could improve upon that would help their image out in the long run, it would be making themselves more agile. The GSL? They fixed it's biggest problems, but too late for many 3pp. DDI? They screwed up the launch, but they've now got the most complete set of dedicated online tools of any tabletop game out there. PDFs? Still waiting on this one.
CR was definitely worth it to me (preorder price), but the rules sure need to be rewritten.Scene 1.
Interior. Night. Four Nerdy Players sit around a table in someone's basement, playing Castle Ravenloft.
Nerdy Player #1: "These rules are a mess."
Nerdy Player #2: "My turn is taking, like, twenty minutes."
Nerdy Player #3: "I'm so confused."
Nerdy Player #4: "I want my mommy."
Scene 2.
Exterior. Day. Three Hip Friends sit at a poolside table. The Coolest Guy Ever arrives, holding a board game.
Coolest Guy Ever: "Check it out everyone! Castle Ravenloft, Second Edition!"
Rock music starts to play. Girls in Bikinis emerge from the pool, carrying cans of Mountain Dew and fistfulls of Castle Ravenloft Second Edition game pieces. The Coolest Guy Ever starts playing the game with his three Hip Friends.
Hip Friend #1: "This new edition of Castle Ravenloft is awesome!"
Hip Friend #2: "I don't even need to look at the rules!!"
Hip Friend #3: "This amazing 2venture warrants three exclamation marks!!!"
The Coolest Guy Ever jumps up on an adjacent table, plays a guitar solo in the direction of the game board, and game pieces dance around impresively. Girls in Bikinis gawk at the Coolest Guy Ever, their expressions showcasing equal parts amazement and sexual desire.
Coolest Guy Ever: "Thanks, Castle Ravenloft Second Edition! I'm just glad I'm not some lame troll who lives in his mother's basement, hates America, and plays that old 'Practice Edition' of the world's greatest game!"
This would be a brilliant commercial.
1. Calling the advertising "offensive" is a stretch. Don't get me wrong -- some people were clearly offended. The thing is, one would be hard-pressed to name anything that hasn't offended someone, somewhere.
Never attribute to malic what can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Marshmallows. Who the hell could possibly be offended by marshmallows? They're so spongy and tasty.
Love Heinlein. Sucked in as a pubescent by the old Whelan Friday cover....that jumpsuit just....just....teasingly ready to melt off of that f-fu-frame....promise of zero-g......gnng....
stayed for the sheer genius of it all.....
I'm really prepared to not attribute it to "stupidity" per se, but.....perhaps....lack of ability/skill on that front.
Tricky thing about advertising: if it offends me, it offends me. Plain and simple. The trick is not to offend me. I'm the customer. I'm right. Why? Because: I can take my business elsewhere.
I also don't see them trying to rein in, or lampoon any of their sometimes extremely douchily behaving fanboyz. Exhibit: the "4e Avengers." Just.......pooping on trolls' heads. Trolls with legitemate opinions, if only because they vote, influenced by those opinions with their $'s.
I'm willing to write that all off as total lack of advertising acumen, though.
this, however, brings me to point 2,
2. I don't believe Scott is being given a fair-shake on this thread. Further, I believe the behavior of some over-zealous posters is making for a downright hostile environment.
To which I respond: THOSE JERKS!!!
I didn't really mean that. I can't really explain what I see as the point of that "those jerks!" thing, either, without having my post flagged and deleted. The whole setup is insipid. THAT is what I feel is the....source of the ire you're detecting. Maybe he is more sinned against than sinning; maybe you're a better judge of that than I. Maybe I just can't get past my opinions being invalidated by "those jerks!" enough to care overly much.
The point of "Those jerks," is to illustrate, through the use of painfully obvious sarcasm, how silly it is to be offended by and hostile towards a company that is being self-critical, excited and proud of what they've been working on, and who are engaging in an accepted marketing strategy lauded as brilliant when used in other industries.
I also don't see them trying to rein in, or lampoon any of their sometimes extremely douchily behaving fanboyz.
You must have missed the part where they depicted those very "fanboyz" (awesome use of pejorative language that could never be similarly applied to Paizo's own fans, right?) as yammering, sycophantic kobold minions who revere their master no matter his actions.
Or, I mean, does that not count as lampooning in your book?
This is exactly what I meant, by the way, when I explained earlier in the thread that a lot of anti-4e people looking to be offended just stopped at the troll-pooping and ignored the rest of the cartoon because extending their oh-so-critical analysis wouldn't paint WotC as the BBEG they want it to be.
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2. I don't believe Scott is being given a fair-shake on this thread. Further, I believe the behavior of some over-zealous posters is making for a downright hostile environment.I've long since grown a thick enough skin to deal with the hostility. It's unfortunately a side-effect of being a fan of two companies when the fans of one see the other as the industry's very own BBEG. I'm more concerned about the sort of environment this creates for those who might come to check Paizo's community out despite being a fan of WotC.
I've given some thought to WotC's past mistakes, and I've started to realize that WotC is actually pretty good about fixing the mistakes it makes. Eventually. It just takes them forever. I think that if there's one thing that they could improve upon that would help their image out in the long run, it would be making themselves more agile. The GSL? They fixed it's biggest problems, but too late for many 3pp. DDI? They screwed up the launch, but they've now got the most complete set of dedicated online tools of any tabletop game out there. PDFs? Still waiting on this one.
And they don't do damage control very well. When they do make a mistake. It blows up, everyone talks about it. They either don't talk about it or give canned responses to it. Then when they do fix things, there is not really big announcements. More mentioned in passing, yeah we fixed this. Everyone hears about the blunders and then rarely hear about the fixes. That and as you said they are really slow at fixing things. Which goes along with my bad customer relations. They don't communicate well with there fans, customers etc.
<wanders into thread>
I say. A strange thing happened to me the other day. I'd been wandering Avistan, promoting the excellent work of Gorum with a touring gladiatoral show. Rave reviews and oodles of cash absolutely everywhere. Anyhow, the lads and I stopped by Nerosyan, the capital of Mendev, intending to put on a grand gala - I mean they're crusaders in Mendev, they're into fighting, so they should really appreciate a group of armed-to-the-teeth half fiends wearing spiked armour showing up to entertain them.
The next thing I knew, there were horns blowing and spells and arrows flying, and we had to run for our lives.
I mean rum old thing, what? I just couldn't understand it. They must be crazy in Mendev or something.
<wanders out of thread>
Perception=Reality in marketing
It doesn't matter what you INTENDED to do, how your audience REACTS to what you do is important. So if I interpret the message from their marketing that WotC doesn't consider me a valued customer anymore, that is my reality, and I will react accordingly.
Of course WotC didn't want to offend their customers. No sane company that wishes to remain in business does that. However ... you can send out a message that is received the wrong way. It happens all the time. There is a whole science called Communication (with a degree program at most colleges and everything) that teaches people how to get their message across correctly.
When a company misreads their consumer's mood, disasters can and do occur. Sometimes humor doesn't translate. Sometimes, what marketers consider edgy and brilliant in a boardroom translates into mean-spirited and stupid to the intended recipients once put out into the ether. It's all context.
The market always tells the truth. The truth is, 4e is doing fine, but it has lost some market share. My personal opinion is that a large part of this is attributable to some really poor marketing decisions. Note, I said opinion, not fact. The truth is, the facts of the matter are hard to quantify. All that can be known is that there is a thriving community with excellent 3pp participation involved in Pathfinder. And that is good enough for me and my gaming dollars.
If WotC would consider doing some projects in 3e or even 2e or 1e, I think they would win a lot of fans back. I think (IMHO) that re-releasing the older accessories in PDF form would be an olive branch that would heal a lot of bad feelings. We shall see what the future brings.
2. I don't believe Scott is being given a fair-shake on this thread. Further, I believe the behavior of some over-zealous posters is making for a downright hostile environment.
I pretty much agree in first part, but don't think that it is limited to just him. Agree on second part, but I think that my list of posters includes more people from both sides of the argument. Some people are way way to enthusiastic about displaying hatred for WotC doing, well, anything and attributing it to them being malicious jerks, then other people are actually quite happy with posts that describe Paizo as a bunch of people that capitalized on a bunch of less intelligent customers with "nerd-rage"-issues. I don't really feel like either side is something I want to be on.
(Blazej didn't really care about the ads that much, but he did like the the online previews and he does think fondly of the cartoon gnome.)
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CR was definitely worth it to me (preorder price), but the rules sure need to be rewritten.Scene 1.
Interior. Night. Four Nerdy Players sit around a table in someone's basement, playing Castle Ravenloft.
Nerdy Player #1: "These rules are a mess."
Nerdy Player #2: "My turn is taking, like, twenty minutes."
Nerdy Player #3: "I'm so confused."
Nerdy Player #4: "I want my mommy."
Scene 2.
Exterior. Day. Three Hip Friends sit at a poolside table. The Coolest Guy Ever arrives, holding a board game.
Coolest Guy Ever: "Check it out everyone! Castle Ravenloft, Second Edition!"
Rock music starts to play. Girls in Bikinis emerge from the pool, carrying cans of Mountain Dew and fistfulls of Castle Ravenloft Second Edition game pieces. The Coolest Guy Ever starts playing the game with his three Hip Friends.
Hip Friend #1: "This new edition of Castle Ravenloft is awesome!"
Hip Friend #2: "I don't even need to look at the rules!!"
Hip Friend #3: "This amazing 2venture warrants three exclamation marks!!!"
The Coolest Guy Ever jumps up on an adjacent table, plays a guitar solo in the direction of the game board, and game pieces dance around impresively. Girls in Bikinis gawk at the Coolest Guy Ever, their expressions showcasing equal parts amazement and sexual desire.
Coolest Guy Ever: "Thanks, Castle Ravenloft Second Edition! I'm just glad I'm not some lame troll who lives in his mother's basement, hates America, and plays that old 'Practice Edition' of the world's greatest game!"
+1
If the second part of the advert is filmed in the same style of the Budweiser Gay commercials from Saturday Night Live, this is actually the best advertisement ever. EVER.I don't remember any women in the 4E 'french documentary' advert. Need to check...
You must have missed the part where they depicted those very "fanboyz" (awesome use of pejorative language that could never be similarly applied to Paizo's own fans, right?) as yammering, sycophantic kobold minions who revere their master no matter his actions.
Or, I mean, does that not count as lampooning in your book?
Nope. I saw that part too. Or, more correctly, I saw it, forgot about it, and remembered it at your jogging of my memory. See, the kobold didn't apply to me. The troll did. Maybe the kobold applied to you, but the troll.....I'm willing to hazard a guess.......not so much.
It had so little to do with me that it totally slipped my mind. The troll, however, is all I took away from it. Ergo, I can't really speculate as to how the kobold lampoon made you feel, much less come up with a value judgment about it, or your perceptions thereof. Yet, in your next little bit....
This is exactly what I meant, by the way, when I explained earlier in the thread that a lot of anti-4e people looking to be offended just stopped at the troll-pooping and ignored the rest of the cartoon because extending their oh-so-critical analysis wouldn't paint WotC as the BBEG they want it to be.
you seem utterly comfortable in doing so for me and mine. I can't even speculate how the kobold thing makes you feel. I can't even dream of it applying to me, so I can't speculate. It went right over my head. Didn't strike a cord. Nada. How you feel so confident in doing the same is totally lost on me.
Maybe I'll start by giving you the benefit of the doubt regarding what you really meant to accomplish with the "those jerks!" jabs. I don't know why I'm doing this. Maybe I feel generous.
Now, Wizards,......this thread is long, but it's free market research.
Do with it as you see fit. Figure out how you're perceived by possible customers and make something positive happen. Get up and make it work. Don't cry about how mean the customers are. You're big boys and girls now. It's a dog eat dog world, and I really don't give a shit about your problems. I have my own problems. And don't drop shit on complaining customers' heads. It's bad for business, whether you do so literally or figuratively.
I actually appreciate that WotC, through Mearls, is offering this olive branch. I was one of the people didn't like the changes made in 4th Edition and thought the initial advertising was terrible bordering on insulting, but I think WotC is finally starting to realise their errors and are trying to heal the rifts in the community. I'm not about to begrudge them that.
I actually appreciate that WotC, through Mearls, is offering this olive branch. I was one of the people didn't like the changes made in 4th Edition and thought the initial advertising was terrible bordering on insulting, but I think WotC is finally starting to realise their errors and are trying to heal the rifts in the community. I'm not about to begrudge them that.
I agree and I will at least give them the chance to fully develop this angle before I fully judge it, even if the poll questions seem a bit dodgy at times. Hopefully they can make this work where previous attempts have not.
Nope. I saw that part too. Or, more correctly, I saw it, forgot about it, and remembered it at your jogging of my memory. See, the kobold didn't apply to me. The troll did. Maybe the kobold applied to you, but the troll.....I'm willing to hazard a guess.......not so much.
It had so little to do with me that it totally slipped my mind. The troll, however, is all I took away from it. Ergo, I can't really speculate as to how the kobold lampoon made you feel, much less come up with a value judgment about it, or your perceptions thereof. Yet, in your next little bit....
It really didn't make me feel anything (beyond amusement), because I understood that it was comedy. It was clearly a pretty harmless caricature. The only reason I can see someone being offended by either depiction (troll or kobold) is if they feel as though the caricature was accurate (which, now that I think about it, goes a long way towards explaining the defensive reaction to the cartoon).
But, to be clear here, you're saying that you don't believe it's possible to speculate on how this cartoon might make someone feel? But you're also firmly of the opinion that WotC should have been able to anticipate how this cartoon might make someone feel?
EDIT: As a total aside, because I forgot to mention it earlier, I've read through a handful of threads scattered throughout the Paizo boards and found that, by and large, people have a pretty reasonable take on WotC/4e. Much, much, much better than three years ago.
I actually appreciate that WotC, through Mearls, is offering this olive branch. I was one of the people didn't like the changes made in 4th Edition and thought the initial advertising was terrible bordering on insulting, but I think WotC is finally starting to realise their errors and are trying to heal the rifts in the community. I'm not about to begrudge them that.
I found the original 4e advertising insulting and mean-spirited, if somewhat funny. I took it as an exultant middle finger from the WotC R&D department to the disgruntled fans. I mean, having the dragon crap on the troll who's repeating the main criticisms fans had of R&D's plans? How else are you supposed to interpret that?
As for Mearls plea for unity, while it may be sincerely felt, an admit-no-wrongdoing apologia published on a sub-page of the company website doesn't really constitute an olive branch, especially when compared to a cartoon widely distributed on YouTube.
But, to be clear here, you're saying that you don't believe it's possible to speculate on how this cartoon might make someone feel? But you're also firmly of the opinion that WotC should have been able to anticipate how this cartoon might make someone feel?
I fail to see the how the two statements present the false dichotomy you seem to be inferring. I must admit,.....sounds good though.
You left out the part about the value judgment.Not to mention my invitation to Wizards to possibly learn from past mistakes.
WOAH.....you almost convinced me I was being irrational, whether I have to be rational or not.
I'm the customer. Wizards might just actually want me to be irrational. Wizards might just actually want to invoke emotion, and in so doing, convince me to buy their stuff. They better not ever let me catch wind of it, though, because I might get pissed off at them.
Rationality might actually consist of me putting my money in the bank and saving for retirement, and playing all my old 3.5e crap because it does the trick.
NOW...YOU, Scott Betts, and I, Spanky T Leprechaun, NOT being marketing professionals, really don't have the acumen to "be able to anticipate how this cartoon might make someone feel." That's why we have no business doing it.
I guess the only difference between us in this instance is the fact that I realize that.
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Maybe, in one or two years WoTC will suddenly come out with Dungeons and Dragons Classic- Fifth edition. If they suddenly do, I hope that they return to the true D&D tradition: and their next product is more a role playing game than their present one. While I wait, i'm not buying ANY products made by WoTC.
To be fair it is a role playing game and you can RP in it just fine. If the game fits your style. Let me explain, for me how some of the powers work and stuff breaks immersion for me. Which makes it harder for me to get and stay in character. A guy I know, loves what I call cinematic style rolling playing. He likes to be able to rush into a room with 10 guys with machines guns take a few grazes with with a pistol and one shot drop every one of them and when he runs out of ammo throw the pistol hitting the last one in the head and dropping them. (minions one hit and dead) Then go face the bad guy, long bloody fight he almost gets beat down. Then suddenly he gets a surge and fights back(healing surge) and beats the bad guy down finally. like in many hollywood movies. For him he gets into character easier and stays in character more in games like that.
I found the original 4e advertising insulting and mean-spirited, if somewhat funny. I took it as an exultant middle finger from the WotC R&D department to the disgruntled fans. I mean, having the dragon crap on the troll who's repeating the main criticisms fans had of R&D's plans? How else are you supposed to interpret that?
As comedy, one would hope.
Similarly, one could say "I mean, having the dragon surrounded by unthinking worshipers eager to please and revere the dragon no matter its conduct? How else are you supposed to interpret that?" and yet the group of people that particular caricature was supposed to represent didn't decide it was time to get offended.
NOW...YOU, Scott Betts, and I, Spanky T Leprechaun, NOT being marketing professionals, really don't have the acumen to "be able to anticipate how this cartoon might make someone feel." That's why we have no business doing it.
I guess the only difference between us in this instance is the fact that I realize that.
It's certainly your prerogative to believe that we can't speculate on how someone will react to something, but that's a pretty silly belief that I'm sure you don't actually hold. Every time you say something to someone that is intended to solicit a reaction from them (for instance, a compliment intended to make someone feel good), you are speculating on how someone will react to something. Now, granted, you're not always going to be correct about how things actually turn out, but there's an expected reaction to be had. And if the reaction is unexpected, it's usually worthwhile to examine why that is the case. Unfortunately, the reality is that an individual's emotional reaction to something is often not grounded in critical thought, and far too few people have the ability to give themselves pause to consider their own reaction (myself often included).
To be fair it is a role playing game and you can RP in it just fine. If the game fits your style. Let me explain, for me how some of the powers work and stuff breaks immersion for me. Which makes it harder for me to get and stay in character. A guy I know, loves what I call cinematic style rolling playing. He likes to be able to rush into a room with 10 guys with machines guns take a few grazes with with a pistol and one shot drop every one of them and when he runs out of ammo throw the pistol hitting the last one in the head and dropping them. (minions one hit and dead) Then go face the bad guy, long bloody fight he almost gets beat down. Then suddenly he gets a surge and fights back(healing surge) and beats the bad guy down finally. like in many hollywood movies. For him he gets into character easier and stays in character more in games like that.
The effort is laudable, but when someone says something along the lines of "4e isn't true D&D," I've generally found that there is a reason the criticism is so vague and undefined.
Isn't comedy supposed to be funny, though? Because, well, those ads? They aren't.
Isn't comedy supposed to be funny, though? Because, well, those ads? They aren't.
Agreed on the silly documentary one, but I thought the dragon cartoon was a pretty solid bit of satire. That's fine, though, it won't tickle everyone's funny bone. But whether or not you felt the jokes/gags/whatever fell flat, it's clear that they were intended as comedy, however groan-worthy they turned out.
Posting with the perspective of a large, magnificent, black dragon I find it occasionally comedic to summon a horde of invisible stalkers, then drop meteor swarms on a building so that the occupants come rushing out in a panic straight into the arms of attackers whom they can't see.
I doubt that those providing my entertainment find the circumstances or my intentions amusing, but to be frank in that situation their perspectives don't matter one jot to me. The significant thing is that I am having a jolly good chuckle, as are any of my draconic colleagues or underlings whom I have invited along to watch.
However: if I were to pull a non-lethal prank to divert a bunch of lesser beings (such as temporarily turning their hovels into jelly with a handy minor artifact), and they failed to find it funny, I would at least have the manners to apologise to them for over-estimating their capacity to appreciate my wit. Well: that is to say that I'd apologise to those still around to listen to me. It goes without saying that I'd have to hunt down and force to listen to my apology any who'd run away.
However, I concede that it is quite illogical to expect most puny humanoid things to be able to match a dragon for etiquette and standards.
And now, if you will excuse me, I shall retire to my hoard.
Every time you say something to someone that is intended to solicit a reaction from them (for instance, a compliment intended to make someone feel good), you are speculating on how someone will react to something.
True. Now.
Why doesn't this create a false dichotomy? Because your example is oversimplified.I don't usually compliment complete strangers. I usually compliment people I know. I tend to know what they'll like and dislike from past experiences with them. What's more, the troll getting pooped on wasn't a compliment. There's no possible way it could be meant as a compliment, unless I was a pig that enjoyed eating fecal matter.
It was more of an insult, and insults kinda follow a different vibe than compliments. A compliment is, generally speaking, a safe bet. An insult is more of a gamble. You never know what might happen, but generally speaking, telling somebody their hair looks great, or they did a good job with that problem isn't much of a gamble.
Telling somebody "HEY! I'M POOPING ON YOUR HEAD...JUST KIDDING!"
That's a gamble right there. There are actually people I could tell this to in my milieu that would laugh. There are others that would do bad things to me. Wizards....I don't really feel that familiar with them. They can't do it to me ergo. I'll get pissy.
Unfortunately, the reality is that an individual's emotional reaction to something is often not grounded in critical thought, and far too few people have the ability to give themselves pause to consider their own reaction (myself often included).
Precisely. That is why it kinda takes marketing professionals to do this whole marketing thing, and not just a couple of Jo Blows off the street. Reality is, I don't see much of any individual's.....anything being grounded in critical thought, and the few examples I do see are pretty much based on generous servings of failed logic, self-deception, and just general crapping on other peoples' thoughts and dreams for God knows what reason.
True. Now.
Why doesn't this create a false dichotomy? Because your example is oversimplified.
No, it's simplified, because that often helps with clarity. That doesn't make it oversimplified.
I don't usually compliment complete strangers.
Just because you don't doesn't mean it's uncommon. People compliment others all the time, even those they don't know. If a woman tells another woman that her hair looks great, there is a range of expected reaction. Not within that range, for instance, is abject horror. If you compliment a woman's hair, you can easily expect that they will at least act flattered. Does this happen 100% of the time? No. Is it the expected, sought-after reaction? Yes.
What's more, the troll getting pooped on wasn't a compliment. There's no possible way it could be meant as a compliment, unless I was a pig that enjoyed eating fecal matter.
Right, it wasn't. I used a compliment by way of example because it is a very common way in which we, as human beings, predict reactions on a daily basis.
It was more of an insult, and insults kinda follow a different vibe than compliments.
Actually, it was more of a satire. It wasn't intended to insult anyone, just like their depiction of 4e fans as the kobolds wasn't intended to insult anyone.
A compliment is, generally speaking, a safe bet. An insult is more of a gamble. You never know what might happen, but generally speaking, telling somebody their hair looks great, or they did a good job with that problem isn't much of a gamble.
Telling somebody "HEY! I'M POOPING ON YOUR HEAD...JUST KIDDING!"
That's a gamble right there. There are actually people I could tell this to in my milieu that would laugh. There are others that would do bad things to me. Wizards....I don't really feel that familiar with them. They can't do it to me ergo. I'll get pissy.
Right, good. You saw the cartoon, and what you took away from it was: "Wizards of the Coast sees me as a whining troll for it to poop on."
Why, then, is it that people in my shoes didn't come away from that same cartoon thinking "Wizards of the Coast sees me as a simpering mindless kobold minion?"
By the way, a post over on ENWorld reminded me that, in the vein of offering meaningful concessions with the olive branch, WotC has recently begun to open up their sponsored play areas at cons (DDXP, for one) to all editions of D&D, not just 4e. Not a huge deal, I know, but it's something.
And, amusingly, a literal embodiment of the "big tent" philosophy.
Right, good. You saw the cartoon, and what you took away from it was: "Wizards of the Coast sees me as a whining troll for it to poop on."
Why, then, is it that people in my shoes didn't come away from that same cartoon thinking "Wizards of the Coast sees me as a simpering mindless kobold minion?"
Because satire is never even-handed when it's being used as propaganda. There may be the standard denial "Oh no, we're even-handed and we lampoon everyone" but a clear agenda always comes through and one side always gets the most pointed barbs. That's why people in your shoes aren't offended--you weren't on the receiving end of the nastiest barbs.
As for DDXP allowing all forms of D&D in their game rooms being some form of olive branch...did they seriously previously try to ban players who came in with older edition books?