RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
[As a guy who worked on the 4e Player's Handbook, I can tell you that was not a jab. It was just an unhappy coincidence that was designed (and named) well before the Pathfinder RPG was announced. I just wish I had the foresight to change the name of that paragon path and the powers before the 4e PH saw print.
Heck, if I had a time machine, I would go back in time, and I'm sure I would have no problem convincing the 4e design team to change it, after they got over the shock of seeing two of me in the same meeting room.
Thank you, Mr. Radney MacFarland (I can't type 'SRM' without a number after it, or the urge to shoot you at a target within 270 meters).
This needs to be added to a FAQ. :-)
[As a guy who worked on the 4e Player's Handbook, I can tell you that was not a jab. It was just an unhappy coincidence that was designed (and named) well before the Pathfinder RPG was announced. I just wish I had the foresight to change the name of that paragon path and the powers before the 4e PH saw print.
Heck, if I had a time machine, I would go back in time, and I'm sure I would have no problem convincing the 4e design team to change it, after they got over the shock of seeing two of me in the same meeting room.
Thank you, Mr. Radney MacFarland (I can't type 'SRM' without a number after it, or the urge to shoot you at a target within 270 meters).
This needs to be added to a FAQ. :-)
I removed a couple posts. Keep things civil, please.
Speaking of treating prior versions poorly, how did people feel about this scene?
I absolutely hated it. That movie thought it was too good for a robot owl, when in fact a robot owl would have improved it considerably.
We agree again, Erik. Lame.
[As a guy who worked on the 4e Player's Handbook, I can tell you that was not a jab. It was just an unhappy coincidence that was designed (and named) well before the Pathfinder RPG was announced. I just wish I had the foresight to change the name of that paragon path and the powers before the 4e PH saw print.
Heck, if I had a time machine, I would go back in time, and I'm sure I would have no problem convincing the 4e design team to change it, after they got over the shock of seeing two of me in the same meeting room.
Thank you, Mr. Radney MacFarland (I can't type 'SRM' without a number after it, or the urge to shoot you at a target within 270 meters).
This needs to be added to a FAQ. :-)
LOL. I get that a lot. :-)
|
Mostly because it seems to annoy pres man.LOL. Ok, I see that you don't really disagree with me, you are just pulling my chain. Very good sir, very good.
*tips hat* I think both statements are valid in different ways. PF IS 3.5 houseruled, but at the same time it is NOT 3.5. You can say lime green and olive green are green, but you can't say lime green is olive green. Maybe I'm making the same argument you are, but it's just fun to tease. :)
*tips hat* I think both statements are valid in different ways. PF IS 3.5 houseruled, but at the same time it is NOT 3.5. You can say lime green and olive green are green, but you can't say lime green is olive green. Maybe I'm making the same argument you are, but it's just fun to tease. :)Mostly because it seems to annoy pres man.LOL. Ok, I see that you don't really disagree with me, you are just pulling my chain. Very good sir, very good.
Interesting point.
So if you load him naked... does that make him a streak SRM?
Good night, everybody! /Animaniacs
-The Gneech
So if you load him naked... does that make him a streak SRM?
Ahahahahahahahahaha...
Ohh good i was worried how you misplaced something so big!Aw, good...something else that doesn't exist.I'll just leave this here.I'm looking for my elemental instrument.
Have you seen my air guitar? It's pictured below (not to scale).
I shall be strong! I shall resist this terrible temptation!
I shall be strong! I shall resist this terrible temptation!Ohh good i was worried how you misplaced something so big!Aw, good...something else that doesn't exist.I'll just leave this here.I'm looking for my elemental instrument.
Have you seen my air guitar? It's pictured below (not to scale).
"That's what she said!"
"That's what she said!"I shall be strong! I shall resist this terrible temptation!Ohh good i was worried how you misplaced something so big!Aw, good...something else that doesn't exist.I'll just leave this here.I'm looking for my elemental instrument.
Have you seen my air guitar? It's pictured below (not to scale).
Damn!
And KaeYoss only resist temtation for about 2 minute....I am surprised you lasted that long.
Because he's a bitter little gnome.I'm not sure why it is such an insult to say that PF is not 3.5.Why does saying PF IS 3.5 cause you to "grind teeth in forced smile"? If it's not an insult to say it is not 3.5, is it an insult to say it is?
Can we not talk bad about gnomes, please? Just because our personalities are nothing like you humans' doesn't mean we don't have feelings!
If someone finds something to be insulting, then as far as they are concerned it is insulting. There is no distinction to the person who feels insulted.You personally may not agree with them, but that doesn't change how they feel, or make them wrong to feel as they do.
Well, technically, there can be no thing as "insulting" if it's all a matter of opinion. It's possible that no matter what you say, some people will find it insulting, while others won't. It's never 100% or 0%.
So we might as well say "that is insulting" and save the tired old "in my opinion".
WORDS WORDS WORDS snipped
Nope.
If you got upset at this commercial you were slash are being ridiculous.
Can we not talk bad about gnomes, please? Just because our personalities are nothing like you humans' doesn't mean we don't have feelings!Because he's a bitter little gnome.I'm not sure why it is such an insult to say that PF is not 3.5.Why does saying PF IS 3.5 cause you to "grind teeth in forced smile"? If it's not an insult to say it is not 3.5, is it an insult to say it is?
That's your opinion. What I said was not universally insulting.
I dislike this argument. Now, I'm reading a lot into your statement, so lets clarify. I read this as you saying that because 4e is simplifying core mechanics and removing certain issues (multiple calculations for one type of defense, removing save-or-dies from being hinged on a single roll, etc) that you are saying the game is being targeted at a less sophisticated crowd, and that a more sophisticated gamer prefers a more complicated system.
I guess he says that they apparently thought that their target audience were total idiots. I agree with him. I got that, too. They were talking about rules that are, at least to me, very, very easy, as if they were stuff Hawkins would need help with. That implies, to me, that they thought their target audience was incapable of basic math.
It's not that he says that smarter players want more complicated systems. It's saying that they're underestimating their target audience.
If they just said "This stuff seems complicated, and we think we have found a way to take away the complexity without sacrificing its usefulness", it would have been different!
But if you consider what he (and I) said an insult to you, that we call you an idiot for playing 4e, then apparently you're a nerd-raging, thin-skinned drama queen. :P
(Note: I'm not actually thinking you're a nerd-raging, thin-skinned drama queen, but this kind of insult has been thrown around a couple of times, and I wanted to try it out. I didn't like it. It made me sound like a dumbass. I won't repeat it.
So let me instead assure you that I - and probably he - meant no disrespect and insult, we merely think that their statements were insulting)
That said, elegance and simplicity in game design is in general an excellent goal when it comes to actually playing a game.
Of course, though I would say that it's not universally applicable. Sometimes, some complexity is required to properly design something that is important to that game.
What I can get 100% behind that unnecessary complexity should be avoided at all cost. Never make things more complex than they need to be. And in other cases it's usually a good idea to find a proper balance between detail and simplicity.
And KaeYoss only resist temtation for about 2 minute....I am surprised you lasted that long.
It's this crappy internet connection.
That's your opinion. What I said was not universally insulting.Can we not talk bad about gnomes, please? Just because our personalities are nothing like you humans' doesn't mean we don't have feelings!Because he's a bitter little gnome.I'm not sure why it is such an insult to say that PF is not 3.5.Why does saying PF IS 3.5 cause you to "grind teeth in forced smile"? If it's not an insult to say it is not 3.5, is it an insult to say it is?
That's actually not true. I always speak universally true facts. Me and Chuck Norris.
Did you know that Chuck Norris rapes tentacle monsters?
|
That implies, to me, that they thought their target audience was incapable of basic math.
But it isn't about basic mathematics. It is about knowing which modifiers to apply when calculating the touch AC, and which modifiers to apply when being flat-footed. My four-year-old daughter could do the math but she has naturally no idea about the subtle difference between armor bonus and natural armor bonus (and all those other bonuses). And I happen to know some people studying mathematics who got confused by this. I don't understand it, but I also never understood how someone could have problems with THAC0, so maybe it's just me. ^^
The thing is, there are ( a lot of) people who dislike(d) SoD-effects. I don't get Matt's second point, especially as there exist spells in 3.X with whom you can get crits. And there are (from my own experience) people who tend to get confused when calculating their character's AC. And that has nothing to do with being less sophisticated.
I don't even know if a roleplaying game should think in these categories. When I started roleplaying you didn't have to be terribly sophisticated to understand what Basic D&D (or in my case, the first edition of The Dark Eye) was all about. And that was a good thing at that time, because it enabled us to concentrate on playing the game instead of getting the rules in our heads. Twenty-some years later I'm playing with my kids and while I'm using a heavily "dumbed-down" version of Pathfinder right now I'm honestly thinking of getting back to those old systems because they are much easier to grasp and i don't have to ignore 90% of the system all the time.
The way THAC0 and AC was handled in 2nd edition was like asking someone to walk over to you by turning their back to you and walking backwards.
The way THAC0 and AC was handled in 2nd edition was like asking someone to walk over to you by turning their back to you and walking backwards.
You're just jealous because you don't have the THAC0 to hit my god-like -10 AC. =P
That's actually not true. I always speak universally true facts. Me and Chuck Norris.
Sigh. You're getting us confused YET again. I'm the representative of the Logos/Dao. You're the representative of Chaos.
Did you know that I rape tentacle monsters?
I try to suppress the memory, but yes. Yes, I know. See the above.
Didn't you just go off on a tear about people stating opinion as fact?Nope.
If you got upset at this commercial you were slash are being ridiculous.
Psst. Russ: Get your licks in, then run. KaeYoss is in the thread, and he's feeling randy. :S
Didn't you just go off on a tear about people stating opinion as fact?Nope.
If you got upset at this commercial you were slash are being ridiculous.
Which is why I'm now stating facts.
B.....:D
.B....:D
..B...:D
...B..:D
....B.:D
.....B:D
......BD
|
Speaking of treating prior versions poorly, how did people feel about this scene?
I absolutely hated it. That movie thought it was too good for a robot owl, when in fact a robot owl would have improved it considerably.
That and having Perseus "heroically" invade an apparently persecuted rape victim's home and murder her sold me off ever seeing the movie.
Sometimes it seems Medusa is like the most unjustly maligned being in all mythology.[/tangent]
I've decided I'm just going to close my eyes and change this thread with my mind.
Speaking of treating prior versions poorly, how did people feel about this scene?
I absolutely hated it. That movie thought it was too good for a robot owl, when in fact a robot owl would have improved it considerably.
That and having Perseus "heroically" invade an apparently persecuted rape victim's home and murder her sold me off ever seeing the movie.
Sometimes it seems Medusa is like the most unjustly maligned being in all mythology.[/tangent]
It was very odd they took vast liberties with the mythology for the movie...yet they decided to go with the actual Medusa myth. It really blows my mind.
I would like a movie that shows Medusa in a more sympathic light...maybe turning her into the protagonist. Just because the Greeks had @#$% up morales does not mean we have to tell the same stories.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Speaking of treating prior versions poorly, how did people feel about this scene?
I absolutely hated it. That movie thought it was too good for a robot owl, when in fact a robot owl would have improved it considerably.
That and having Perseus "heroically" invade an apparently persecuted rape victim's home and murder her sold me off ever seeing the movie.
Sometimes it seems Medusa is like the most unjustly maligned being in all mythology.[/tangent]
It was very odd they took vast liberties with the mythology for the movie...yet they decided to go with the actual Medusa myth. It really blows my mind.
I would like a movie that shows Medusa in a more sympathic light...maybe turning her into the protagonist. Just because the Greeks had @#$% up morales does not mean we have to tell the same stories.
I'd pay good money to see that film made. Or to see that story done in any format.
Her history is one of the reasons I throat-kick the "always LE" alignment given to the race out of my games.
Well, technically, there can be no thing as "insulting" if it's all a matter of opinion. It's possible that no matter what you say, some people will find it insulting, while others won't.
Insulting.
Insulting is a verb.Insulting is a doing word.
I agree whole heartedly, in other words. Use of insulting as an adjective always calls to mind middle-aged upper-lower-middle-class women, twitching their net curtains to spy on the wickedness and shame of their neighbours who are in turn indistinguishable from them. They'll say things are 'insulting', 'disgraceful', and 'shouldn't be allowed.' Tread not that path. Down that route lies a hell of pot pourri and milky tea with cat hairs in. Beware!
That implies, to me, that they thought their target audience was incapable of basic math.But it isn't about basic mathematics. It is about knowing which modifiers to apply when calculating the touch AC, and which modifiers to apply when being flat-footed. My four-year-old daughter could do the math but she has naturally no idea about the subtle difference between armor bonus and natural armor bonus (and all those other bonuses). And I happen to know some people studying mathematics who got confused by this. I don't understand it, but I also never understood how someone could have problems with THAC0, so maybe it's just me. ^^
I wasn't talking specifically about the several kinds of AC (though I think that with a bit of thought and reading, it's easy to understand what goes where, since it's pretty logical - but that's not the matter here).
I wasn't even quite talking about THAC0. I think it was a good move to replace it with an universal "higher = better" rule and introduce attack bonuses and ACs that increase as they go up. It wasn't hard to do the calculations, and I'd trust 2nd-graders to do it, but the flip wasn't really necessary and didn't really add anything but an extra step in the calculations, so I approve of this change.
I was talking about other stuff they said. I think that Power Attack was portrayed like it was an epic undertaking to calculate 3e-style power attack.
The 3e-Version might have some problems, like people overdoing it to calculate the optimal PA strength for the best possible DPR, but the basic principle (subtract a number up to your BAB, which goes up to 20 in the normal rules, and add that to damage, with maybe multiplying it with 2 or dividing it by 2 in the process) wasn't something even a moderately intelligent adult or even adolescent should be able to do quite easily.
In fact, it was possible to let this help you with the numbers. Turn +12 into +10 for easier calculations and so on.
The thing is, there are ( a lot of) people who dislike(d) SoD-effects.
I won't deny that. On the other hand, there are also people who really like them. And with the ease with which you can bring back a character to life in 3e, it doesn't have to be the final end of your character forever.
Pathfinder made the right choice in my opinion: Keep those effects (though some of the literal "death spells" were turned into massive damage affairs) but make it easier to get that character back.
I mean, unless you take all danger (and with that, excitement) out of the combat rules (play in stranger aeons where death has died), characters will die. Some because they failed their save(s) against a death spell, others because they thought it was a good idea to walk into the midst of assassins wearing only your jammies (double score if you're a Tin Man), some because the monster they fight is dangerous and powerful and reduced your HP to negative [a lot] before the cleric could patch you up, some because....
You get the idea. I think we can agree that not everyone is thrilled to permanently lose his character that way, maybe even lose his place in the story (since a replacement character is not always easy to incorporate). But removing all chances of even dying isn't necessarily the right answer, either.
So make the resurrection spells more accessible while keeping things deadly. Bravo, Pathfinder!
I don't get Matt's second point, especially as there exist spells in 3.X with whom you can get crits.
There's that, and there's the part where some spells are quite nasty even without crits. Not fireball. But if your phantasmal killer succeeds, the target is dead. Doesn't have to fail with a natural 1, he just has to fail.
And I don't know much about the 4e rules, but I think damage from spells is usually a lot less than they used to be. And crits are only max damage, instead of getting to roll damage several times and add it all up, so I guess the spellslingers' excitement about getting to crit was short-lived. "Woohoo, a crit on the fireball. It still deals less damage than the average fireball in the old game."
(or in my case, the first edition of The Dark Eye)
DSA *shudders*. Don't use that term again or I shall rhyme you to death! ;-P
You're just jealous because you don't have the THAC0 to hit my god-like -10 AC. =P
Pfft. -10? Easy. After all, I have str 26!
Did you know that I rape tentacle monsters?I try to suppress the memory, but yes. Yes, I know. See the above.
It puts words in your mouth, associate KaeYoss. Shall we punish it for you, or do you have time.
We shall bring the Implements.
Psst. Russ: Get your licks in, then run. KaeYoss is in the thread, and he's feeling randy. :SDidn't you just go off on a tear about people stating opinion as fact?Nope.
If you got upset at this commercial you were slash are being ridiculous.
Look who's projecting.
I can always tell when ol'Mairkurion's been around. The toilet ain't never flushed and the cat's pregnant. ;-P
I would like a movie that shows Medusa in a more sympathic light...
Can't be done. Too many people turn to stone if she's in the light.
Don't use that term again or I shall rhyme you to death!You know, given, that we used to decide by freeform poetry who would have to pay for the next round of drinks, I'm quite positive that this would be a thing of impossiblity. :D
You seem to forget that the worse the poem, the more powerful the spell...
Roses are red
Violets are blue
You look on in dread
While I simply kill you.
Hoppe hoppe KaeYoss,
wenn er fällt, dann schreit er,
fällt er in den Teich,
find't ihn keiner gleich.
Hoppe hoppe KaeYoss,
wenn er fällt, dann schreit er,
fällt er in den Graben,
fressen ihn die Raben.
Hoppe hoppe KaeYoss,
wenn er fällt, dann schreit er,
fällt er in den Sumpf,
dann macht der KaeYoss... Plumps!
Did you know that Chuck Norris rapes tentacle monsters?
I did not think Chuck Norris would have to rape a tentacle monsters...as they would go to him willingly as everything would because well it is Chuck Norris.
Hoppe hoppe KaeYoss,
wenn er fällt, dann schreit er,
fällt er in den Teich,
find't ihn keiner gleich.Hoppe hoppe KaeYoss,
wenn er fällt, dann schreit er,
fällt er in den Graben,
fressen ihn die Raben.Hoppe hoppe KaeYoss,
wenn er fällt, dann schreit er,
fällt er in den Sumpf,
dann macht der KaeYoss... Plumps!
Hobbe hobbe Reida
Wenna fälld, dann schreida,fällda en de Batsch
Dann machde Reida bladsch!
Did you know that Chuck Norris rapes tentacle monsters?I did not think Chuck Norris would have to rape a tentacle monsters...as they would go to him willingly as everything would because well it is Chuck Norris.
Chuck Norris can rape the willing.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
|
WORDS WORDS WORDS snippedNope.
IOW, TL;DR. Or, if you did read it, TL;DU. The first step in perspective-taking is to be able to see yourself. That step appears to be too far. That's fine; I ain't yer therapist. I just broke you down as a free public educational service.
If you got upset at this commercial you were slash are being ridiculous.
I was actually more mystified at your inability to process your own statements, parse ordinary English usage even when explained in detail, or abide by your own stated values than I was by the commercial itself. But, whatev. If you're looking for this guy to continue the "debate" yer barkin up the wrong tree.
The first step in perspective-taking is to be able to see yourself. That step appears to be too far. That's fine; I ain't yer therapist. I just broke you down as a free public educational service.
Out of curiosity, what was the point of your post, other than to dismiss and deride someone?