Not that its out yet
but personally I was really hoping to see something like a the ole 3.5 warshaper or a more fighterish wildshaper.
Basically d10, full BAB , and can alter form into whatever to bring the pain in a variety of ways.
Anyone else hoping for a class that probably won't be in the Ultimate Combat book ?
Not that its out yet
but personally I was really hoping to see something like a the ole 3.5 warshaper or a more fighterish wildshaper.
Basically d10, full BAB , and can alter form into whatever to bring the pain in a variety of ways.
Anyone else hoping for a class that probably won't be in the Ultimate Combat book ?
If I am not mistaken, you can do this with the Shapeshifter Ranger Archetype from the APG.
If I am not mistaken, you can do this with the Shapeshifter Ranger Archetype from the APG.Not that its out yet
but personally I was really hoping to see something like a the ole 3.5 warshaper or a more fighterish wildshaper.
Basically d10, full BAB , and can alter form into whatever to bring the pain in a variety of ways.
Anyone else hoping for a class that probably won't be in the Ultimate Combat book ?
At level 20 sure, of course for the other 19 levels your just a ranger with some animal traits and bonuses not a shapeshifter.
19 levels is a long time to wait for the flavor your after ;)
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Not that its out yet
but personally I was really hoping to see something like a the ole 3.5 warshaper or a more fighterish wildshaper.
Basically d10, full BAB , and can alter form into whatever to bring the pain in a variety of ways.
Anyone else hoping for a class that probably won't be in the Ultimate Combat book ?
I wasn't really looking forward to seeing any classes, however I WAS looking forward to a plethora of archetypes. As it is though, I'm marginally pleased and Paizo can count on my $40 when it hits the shelves.
-Vaz
+1 for archetypes, mainly for alchemist.
I always hope to get a true jack of all trades class, like master of masks or chamaeleon in 3.5, but it seems that won't be coming.
I'm more focused on archetypes than additional base classes. In that vein a Unarmed Combat fighter ala the Brutal Pugilist Barbarian archetype seems fun.
I was hoping for more class bloat! :)
i was really hoping for a new base class with a full base attack and a d10 HD, other than that i wasn't too concerned what it did, i do not consider the gunslinger to apply because it is a fighter subclass and not a true new base class and yes that does make a big difference.
I was hoping for no new classes and just pure archetypes.
I was also hoping for no new classes, just more archetypes.
i honestly really wanted to see a new combat class, a non-caster non-expert full on warrior class, something completely new. i mean people that like casters are getting the Magus in the Ultimate Magic book, why cant those of us who like combat characters get a new combat class in the Ultimate combat. i just want some fairness with class creation.
Making new classes just to be making them is a bad idea.
i honestly really wanted to see a new combat class, a non-caster non-expert full on warrior class, something completely new. i mean people that like casters are getting the Magus in the Ultimate Magic book, why cant those of us who like combat characters get a new combat class in the Ultimate combat. i just want some fairness with class creation.
How would that be different from the fighter, though? You really can't get much more "full on warrior" than a pure 20th level fighter.
I was hoping for a new Monk with the archetype of Playable & Effective. :)
Yooz trollin'!
i honestly really wanted to see a new combat class, a non-caster non-expert full on warrior class, something completely new. i mean people that like casters are getting the Magus in the Ultimate Magic book, why cant those of us who like combat characters get a new combat class in the Ultimate combat. i just want some fairness with class creation.How would that be different from the fighter, though? You really can't get much more "full on warrior" than a pure 20th level fighter.
just because i don't know what they could do doesn't mean they couldn't come up with something
but i don't want this thread to turn into a debate about how one thing could just be an archetype or how there is or is not a need for more classes seeing as how this thread isn't about that but rather what class you were hoping for
I would have liked some combat class that "evolved", not as a shapeshifter really but more like an eidolon but more humanoid or dragon disciple but more open-ended. I recently had a player that wanted to play a religious warrior that were blessed by the gods to slowly turn into an angel as he did good deeds, and he came up with a whole religious group for that very concept, but it was so hard to find a suitable class that we had to customize and reflavor a lot of stuff.
A flexible and open class that fit for that kind of flavor, or the flavor of a draconic fighter-guy (that isn't a spellcaster), or whatever would be nice.
I want a shadowknight from eq2.
I won't get it, but that's ok.
I like the anti-paladin, but it's not the same.
I was hoping for a new Monk with the archetype of Playable & Effective. :)
You need a player archetype for that: Competent ;-P
but personally I was really hoping to see something like a the ole 3.5 warshaper or a more fighterish wildshaper.
I wasn't really hoping for anything, but the shapeshifter is one of the concepts I think would warrant a new class.
Honestly, I'd like to see an alternate class for the Barbarian called the Berserker. You know, the, Dwarven version of the Barbarian mentioned in the APG.
"But Mahorfeus, they're exactly the same as ordinary Barbarians!"
Bah! I want flavor text and abilities that cater to the dwarf! (As well as Paizo's artwork of an angry, short dude with a huge axe).
A true 20-level Swashbuckler duelist, with INT or DEX to damage.
Honestly, I'd like to see an alternate class for the Barbarian called the Berserker. You know, the, Dwarven version of the Barbarian mentioned in the APG.
"But Mahorfeus, they're exactly the same as ordinary Barbarians!"
Bah! I want flavor text and abilities that cater to the dwarf! (As well as Paizo's artwork of an angry, short dude with a huge axe).
And I want all dwarves to suffer painful, lingering deaths. Sadly, we can't all have what we want.
Though I'd be okay with pages of pages of flavour text about dwarves dying horribly. That would be comic and uplifting!
So we should team up and start a petition!
;-P
Barbarians are Berserkers.
Barbarians are Berserkers.
Gasp.
Barbarians are Berserkers.Gasp.
Calling the Berserker class a "barbarian" was one of the worse naming mistakes ever.
I like the sound of Berserker better. The connotations of "Barbarian" just remind me of 3.5's "YOU ARE ILLITERATE!" thing. In general, "Barbarian" just sounds like the kind of insult people in-game would throw at Berserkers IMHO.
Berserker are what they do. A Barbarian can be a culture or an insult, but they are a people. The class is based off of the myths of Bweserkers and the rage fits that well. Calling them Barbarians was a mistake.
mmm that would be a interesting alternative
a d10 Full Bab that gets CON, WIS or CHA to damage instead of Strength
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A true 20-level Swashbuckler duelist, with INT or DEX to damage.
Okay, great, wonderful idea. I'd like the same thing myself.
Let's see...As a frontline combatant type, and to keep it from being too Rogue or Monk like, we are talking full BAB, d8 or d10 HD, and no more than 4 skill points / level. As a "duelist" and dex-based class, we're talking Light Armor only, probably with the buckler and maybe the light shield. All Simple and Martial weapons, obviously. Saves are either high fort, or high reflex, or both.
So far, so good.
Problem: Weapon Finesse. When does the class get it? Level one? What about dex to damage, that level one as well? And what about the Agile Maneuvers feat? This class just screams "Special Combat Actions", and, let's be honest, Agile Manuevers should have been a part of the Weapon Finesse feat from the beginning. So toss that in as well, also at level one.
Congratulations, every Rogue in the game now multiclasses into the Duelist for one level.
That's no good. Admittedly, it's a problem with the Rogue class, not the Duelist, but the Rogue got here first and the guys at Piazo aren't showing any interest at all in fixing it, so the Duelist has to solve/dodge the issue.
Which means it has to be level two, like Ranger Styles and Rogue Talents and so on. Fits rather cleanly, which is nice. Weapon Finesse, Agile Maneuvers, and Dex to Damage - very nice, but if it's all the class gets, it probably won't break the game. Needs to be playtested.
Unfortunately, this means that level one duelists, who don't get Weapon Finesse (and bonus damage, and Agile Maneuvers) to start with, will have a frustrating first level, but Rangers and Rogues (and dex Monks) deal with that now, so that's fair. Well, not fair fair, but consistent fair.
Unfortunately, it also means that the best tactic for a level one duelist is to use a Longsword or Greatsword, instead of the Rapier you'd expect. I have no solution.
But, okay, setting the first level aside. With Dex adding to attack an damage, and with the class relying on light armor, Int to AC sounds like a good idea. But that feels rather off, a good intelligence just giving them a decent AC and some skill points. Plus, it's boring and D&D did that already; this is Pathfinder, we're more creative.
What about Combat Expertise? That's an int-based feat. No one ever uses the feat, and the only people who take it are Trip-Happy Fighters and Blackguard wannabes. Duelist can fix that. Give them a class ability/bonus_bump at first level, forth level, and every four levels after, that does something like "when wielding a single finesseable weapon, you may ignore up to X penalty to attack rolls while using the Combat Expertise feat". Maybe cap the bonus at the Duelist's Int modifier, to make the tie-in stronger.
Alright, so far so good.
...now what?
I mean, all we've got so far is a archtype. Fighter base.
*Give up Medium and Heavy armor proficiency, add Bluff to the list of class skills.
*Give up bonus feat at first level and Armor Training class feature to get the "ignore penalty from using Combat Expertise" thing, which only works while weiling finesseable melee weapon and wearing light or no armor.
*Give up second level feat to get Weapon Finesse+Agile Maneuvers+ Dex to Damage, but have it only work with finesseable melee weapon and light or no armor.
*Add text that restricts Weapon Training to only finesseable weapons.
Done.
***
Honestly, that didn't take long to crank out. It needs some playtesting, and needs to be properly written up, but it certainly looks sound. I'd be shocked if something like this wasn't already in there.
Do we really need a full-on base class for this?
For that matter, to all those asking for a brand new and totally unique 20th level base class, please describe it for me.
The only reason the Magus exists is the Gish fanboys complained about not being viable at level one.
Actually, no. They complained about not being viable at levels 1-5. Then, way back before the APG, James Jacobs popped into their various threads and pointed out "the Bard works pretty well". Some people listened to him, looked into Treantmonks Bard guide, and really enjoyed the Pathfinder Gish class.
The rest simply changed their complaints to "we don't have a viable gish at level one that can cast blast spells. It's not a gish if it can't blast". Never mind that spellcasters haven't been blasters for ten years. never mind that the APG made Gish-Bards even more amazing. "If it cant cast magic missile and fireball its not a gish".
So now we've got the magus. As soon as it comes out, Gish fanboys will complain that "pathfinder doesn't have a viable gish class at level one that can blast and wield a two-handed weapon. You aren't a gish if you can't blast while wielding a two-handed weapon".
Ugh.
Where was I? Oh, right: so, no, at least in my opinion, a new base class in Ultimate Combat is not justified just becausethe gish fanboys wouldn't shut up.
I'd like to see an actual idea behind the class. A concept that's unique and deep enough to actually support a whole 20 levels. And if there's not enough to support a full base class, I'd rather have an archtype or prestige class.
Simple = better. Simple also = less page space, which = lower price OR more artwork OR more content, all of which = win.
Besides, the Gunslinger actually is a brand new, unique idea, and will likely either be scaled back significantly or split off into it's own full-fledged base class. So there's your new 20 levels.
I like the sound of Berserker better.
Absolutely. "MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK BARBARIAAAN!" just doesn't have the same ring to it!
Illriggers of Mephistopheles.
==Aelryinth
Problem: Weapon Finesse. When does the class get it? Level one? What about dex to damage, that level one as well? And what about the Agile Maneuvers feat? This class just screams "Special Combat Actions", and, let's be honest, Agile Manuevers should have been a part of the Weapon Finesse feat from the beginning. So toss that in as well, also at level one.Congratulations, every Rogue in the game now multiclasses into the Duelist for one level.
Put the INT or DEX to damage a bit higher, fourth level or so ( three levels is normally the depth of dipping players do into other classes, I have found ). Give the Swashbuckler one point of damage per class level from level one. Disallow Power Attack as a viable feat for this combat style, i.e. make it incompatible with the DEX or INT to damage. Problem solved, I think.
instead of Dex or Int to damage how about adding both Dex and Int to attack , gets more of your attacks to hit instead of bigger dmg attacks
instead of Dex or Int to damage how about adding both Dex and Int to attack , gets more of your attacks to hit instead of bigger dmg attacks
Full BAB classes don't really have a problem with hitting opponents in the later game, unless it is a monster whose shtick is not being hit. INT or DEX to damage is really much better.
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Put the INT or DEX to damage a bit higher, fourth level or so ( three levels is normally the depth of dipping players do into other classes, I have found ). Give the Swashbuckler one point of damage per class level from level one. Disallow Power Attack as a viable feat for this combat style, i.e. make it incompatible with the DEX or INT to damage. Problem solved, I think.
Problem: Weapon Finesse. When does the class get it? Level one? What about dex to damage, that level one as well? And what about the Agile Maneuvers feat? This class just screams "Special Combat Actions", and, let's be honest, Agile Manuevers should have been a part of the Weapon Finesse feat from the beginning. So toss that in as well, also at level one.Congratulations, every Rogue in the game now multiclasses into the Duelist for one level.
...out of curiosity, did you read the rest of the post? At least down to the Astrix? I suggest giving it to them at level 2.
I do apologize for the rant; the Gish fanboys annoy me.
I like the sound of Berserker better.Absolutely. "MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK BARBARIAAAN!" just doesn't have the same ring to it!
LOL J&SB FTW.
Put the INT or DEX to damage a bit higher, fourth level or so ( three levels is normally the depth of dipping players do into other classes, I have found ). Give the Swashbuckler one point of damage per class level from level one. Disallow Power Attack as a viable feat for this combat style, i.e. make it incompatible with the DEX or INT to damage. Problem solved, I think.
Problem: Weapon Finesse. When does the class get it? Level one? What about dex to damage, that level one as well? And what about the Agile Maneuvers feat? This class just screams "Special Combat Actions", and, let's be honest, Agile Manuevers should have been a part of the Weapon Finesse feat from the beginning. So toss that in as well, also at level one.Congratulations, every Rogue in the game now multiclasses into the Duelist for one level.
...out of curiosity, did you read the rest of the post? At least down to the Astrix? I suggest giving it to them at level 2.
I do apologize for the rant; the Gish fanboys annoy me.
Yeah, the random anti-gish rant made my eyes glaze over and forget about what else you wrote.
And I don't think level two is deep enough. Two levels is acceptable dipping for every non-caster, four levels is deep commitment. Therefore I'd propose giving such an important feature after four levels at the soonest.
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Yeah, the random anti-gish rant made my eyes glaze over and forget about what else you wrote.
And I don't think level two is deep enough. Two levels is acceptable dipping for every non-caster, four levels is deep commitment. Therefore I'd propose giving such an important feature after four levels at the soonest.
Fair enough, but I think you are overestimating things.
Sure, a two-level dip into Duelist isn't that big a deal if you are a 20th level character, but it makes a big difference if you are 6th or 10th level, and especially if the dip means no easy "two free Fighter feats".
I think capping dex-to-damage at "equal to your duelist level", and leaving it at level 2, would probably work out, as long as it does not stack with strength to damage.
Someone needs to run the numbers at various levels, both for the alternative path and a comparative Greatsword-Fighter. Numbers for a Rogue with similar fighting/style and equipment, as a straight class, as a 2-level Fighter dip, and as a 2-level Duelist dip would also be nice, but that's asking a great deal.
Yeah, the random anti-gish rant made my eyes glaze over and forget about what else you wrote.
And I don't think level two is deep enough. Two levels is acceptable dipping for every non-caster, four levels is deep commitment. Therefore I'd propose giving such an important feature after four levels at the soonest.
Fair enough, but I think you are overestimating things.
Sure, a two-level dip into Duelist isn't that big a deal if you are a 20th level character, but it makes a big difference if you are 6th or 10th level, and especially if the dip means no easy "two free Fighter feats".
I think capping dex-to-damage at "equal to your duelist level", and leaving it at level 2, would probably work out, as long as it does not stack with strength to damage.
Someone needs to run the numbers at various levels, both for the alternative path and a comparative Greatsword-Fighter. Numbers for a Rogue with similar fighting/style and equipment, as a straight class, as a 2-level Fighter dip, and as a 2-level Duelist dip would also be nice, but that's asking a great deal.
Look, I am going off instinct and past experiences here mostly. What you are doing at the moment is isolating this one feature and saying "two levels for only this do hurt, too". The problem here is that this would not be the only feature this hypothesized Swashbuckler would get in the first two levels. Weapon Finesse should be in it, probably two good saves and given how most martial full BAB classes start, at least one other feature like one bonus feat. That is eminently dippable, especially if you get two additional permanent points of damage out of it.
Hell, I'll see if I can whip up a Swashbuckler class with those parameters. I'll be back soon.
So, here it is. Of course that is pretty much a laundry list of things I would want in the class, and shamelessly cribs from other versions of the one-handed finesse fighter. At the really high levels ( 16+) , I got a bit desperate to not have any empty levels, since that seems to be a big no-no in Pathfinder. ^^
I tried to make it so that the Duelist PrC doesn't become totally undesirable.
Swashbuckler
Class Skills
The duelist’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Acrobatics (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int),Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis) and Swim (Str).
Skill Ranks Per Level: 4 + Int modifier.
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the swashbuckler class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The duelist is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with pistols. Duelists are proficient with light armor and bucklers.
Full BAB
Good Fortitude and Reflex Saves.
1st Weapon Finesse, Precise Strike
2nd Acrobatic Charge
3rd Quickdraw, Steady Stance
4th Dodge Bonus +1, Insightful Strike
5th Lucky 1/day
6th Uncanny Dodge
7th Fast Acrobatics
8th Improved Critical
9th Dodge Bonus +2
10th Lucky 2/day
11th Evasion
12th Improved Uncanny Dodge
13th Kip Up
14th Dodge Bonus +3
15th Lucky 3/day
16th Deadly Critical
17th Improved Evasion
18th Positioning Attack
19th Dodge Bonus +4
20th Heart Strike, Lucky 4/day
Weapon Finesse (Ex): At 1st level, the swashbuckler gains Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat.
Precise Strike (Ex): A swashbuckler gains the ability to strike precisely with a light or one-handed piercing weapon, adding her swashbuckler level to her damage roll. When making a precise strike, a swashbuckler cannot attack with a weapon in her other hand or use a shield other than a buckler. A swashbuckler’s precise strike only works against creatures with discernible anatomies. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is also immune to a precise strike, and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits also protects a creature from a precise strike. She cannot apply the effects of Power Attack while using this class feature.
Acrobatic Charge (Ex): At 2nd level, a swashbuckler gains the ability to charge in situations where others cannot. She may charge over difficult terrain that normally slows movement. Depending on the circumstance, she may still need to make appropriate checks to successfully move over the terrain.
Quickdraw (Ex): At 3rd level, the swashbuckler gains Quickdraw as a bonus feat.
Steady Stance (Ex): A swashbuckler remains stable on her feet when others have difficulty standing. She is not considered flat-footed while balancing or climbing and she adds a +5 bonus on Acrobatics or Climb checks to remain balancing or climbing when she takes damage.
Dodge Bonus (Ex): A swashbuckler is trained at focusing her defenses. She receives a +1 dodge bonus to Armor Class against attacks. This bonus increases by +1 every five levels after 4th level. A swashbuckler loses this bonus when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load. The Dodge Bonus class feature counts as the Dodge feat as prerequisite to other feats. While receiving this dodge bonus to Armor Class, a swashbuckler cannot attack with a weapon in her other hand or use a shield other than a buckler.
Insightful Strike (Ex): At 4th level, a swashbuckler becomes able to place her finesse attacks where they deal greater damage. She applies her Intelligence bonus (if any) as a bonus on damage rolls (in addition to any Strength bonus she may have) with any light weapon, as well as any weapon which can be used with Weapon Finesse. Targets immune to critical hits are immune to the swashbuckler’s insightful strike. A swashbuckler cannot use this ability when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load. She cannot apply the effects of Power Attack while using this class feature.
Lucky (Ex): A swashbuckler of 5th level or higher may reroll any failed attack roll, skill check, ability check, or saving throw. The character must take the result of the reroll, even if it’s worse than the original roll. At 10th level and every five levels thereafter, the swashbuckler may use this ability one additional time per day.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 6th level, a swashbuckler gains the ability to react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She cannot be caught flat-footed, nor does she lose her Dex bonus to AC if the attacker is invisible. She still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. A swashbuckler with this ability can still lose her Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses the feint action against her. If a swashbuckler already has uncanny dodge from a different class, she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead.
Fast Acrobatics (Ex): A swashbuckler can avoid the normal penalties for accelerated movement while using her Acrobatics skill. She ignores the normal -5 penalty when making a balance check while moving at her full normal speed. She can climb at half her speed as a move action without taking the -5 penalty on her Climb check. Finally, she can tumble at her full speed without taking the -10 penalty on her Acrobatics check.
Improved Critical (Ex): At 8th level, the swashbuckler gains Improved Critical as a bonus feat.
Evasion (Ex): At 11th level or higher, a swashbuckler can avoid damage from many area-effect attacks. If a swashbuckler makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if a swashbuckler is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless swashbuckler does not gain the benefit of evasion.
Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 12th level and higher, a swashbuckler can no longer be flanked. This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the swashbuckler by flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target has swashbuckler levels. If a character already has uncanny dodge (see above) from another class, the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.
Kip Up (Ex): A swashbuckler can stand up from a prone position as a free action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity. A swashbuckler cannot use this ability when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load.
Deadly Critical (Ex): At 16th level, when a swashbuckler confirms a critical hit with his chosen weapon, she can increase the weapon’s damage multiplier by +1 as an immediate action. She can use this ability once per day at 16th level.
Improved Evasion (Ex): At 17th level, a swashbuckler’s evasion ability improves. She still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, but henceforth he takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless swashbuckler does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.
Positioning Attack (Ex): Once per day, when a swashbuckler hits a creature with a melee attack, she can move up to 30 feet without provoking attacks of opportunity. The movement must end in a space adjacent to the creature hit with the melee attack.
Heart Strike (Ex): At 20th level an swashbuckler can use a heart strike on a foe as a swift action. Once declared, the swashbuckler can make a single melee (or ranged attack, if the foe is within 30 feet) against the target. If the attack hits, it deals damage normally and the target must make a Fortitude save or die. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the swashbuckler’s level + the swashbuckler’s Dexterity modifier. Regardless of whether or not the save is made, the target creature is immune to the swashbuckler’s heart strike ability for 24 hours. Once this ability has been used, it cannot be used again for 1d4 rounds.
the only problem with threads like this is every other person that doesn't want new classes will make the same argument, "that could just be a archetype, we don't need new classes"
the problem with that argument is it completely ignores the fact that if you put in time and effort in designing a new class and fully flesh out the concept it can be a new class and not just an archetype
as far as i am concerned just repeating the argument that all new ideas would just be archetypes just shows a lack of ingenuity and imagination
And the other side of that argument is "Lets make it far more complex then it needs to be so we can kinda justify it not being an archetype"
Needless complexion and bloat for its own sake, not that it is needed or can not be done another way, but just because. No other reason.
New classes should only be made if it can not be made any other way, it should not be the first option but the very last. Lack of ingenuity and imagination is what you get when you make a new class when it is really just an archetype.
If it works as an archetype, then there is no need for it to be anything else.
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So, here it is. Of course that is pretty much a laundry list of things I would want in the class, and shamelessly cribs from other versions of the one-handed finesse fighter. At the really high levels ( 16+) , I got a bit desperate to not have any empty levels, since that seems to be a big no-no in Pathfinder. ^^
I tried to make it so that the Duelist PrC doesn't become totally undesirable.Swashbuckler
** spoiler omitted **...
You should definitely have something in there giving an incentive to get some Charisma. It's a very definite part of the archetype, and not mechanically useful to the class as it stands. Maybe add it to Will Saves or something? Not anything that screws you for not taking it (since the class already requires Dex, Int, and probably some Con), but an advantage of some sort for having at least a bit of it.
You should definitely have something in there giving an incentive to get some Charisma. It's a very definite part of the archetype, and not mechanically useful to the class as it stands. Maybe add it to Will Saves or something? Not anything that screws you for not taking it (since the class already requires Dex, Int, and probably some Con), but an advantage of some sort for having at least a bit of it.So, here it is. Of course that is pretty much a laundry list of things I would want in the class, and shamelessly cribs from other versions of the one-handed finesse fighter. At the really high levels ( 16+) , I got a bit desperate to not have any empty levels, since that seems to be a big no-no in Pathfinder. ^^
I tried to make it so that the Duelist PrC doesn't become totally undesirable.Swashbuckler
** spoiler omitted **...
Yeah, I know. I'd change Insightful Strike to be Charisma-based, if I only knew how to explain properly how being cool makes you hit harder. :p