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I haven't playtested this yet (going to ask my GM in a homebrew campaign if I can), but I can feel already that the ninja is way overpowered in the ability to do things as a swift action. I know they are fast and all, which is why they maybe should allow it to happen as a move action?
I bring this up because inquisitors used to be able to do things as swift actions (like 'Enlarge Person' themselves as a swift action if they have the growth domain), but those things got errata'ed to more reasonable actions (like standard action for that particular one). I have a feeling that being able to go invisible, or greater invisible, as a swift action, is a bit ridiculous right now.
Nevermind the fact that being able to do those actions once per day without spending ki points is also pretty overpowered. But regardless, I just have a sneaking suspicion that this ability for the ninja is going to need to be tinkered with before the next round of playtests.
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I think it would be cheesy to use invisibility as a swift action, attack with sneak attack and become visible, then do it again the next round. Maybe the vanishing trick text could state that the ninja can't attack in the round when he becomes invisible (still allowing full-round actions that aren't attacks) and invisible blade could remove that restriction. Otherwise, I find this ability is one of the better parts of the design.
I can't immediately see other problematic swift actions. What else caught your eye?
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It's cheesy to use it as a swift action, and REALLY cheesy to use greater invisibility as a swift action as low as 10th level.
There's also the problem of Sudden Disguise. Not even the PrC spec'ed for this espionage doesn't get disguise self, especially as a swift action. Seems a bit too powerful to be taken at such low levels. Probably needs a level cap.
But it's beyond that. Is there anything against doing a Flurry of Stars with Ki charge and the Rapid Shot feat? That's devastating (min/max to dex and the -4 isn't going to be THAT bad)! Of course, your Ki gets drained like nobody's business.
I also think that Pressure Points needs to have a minimum level requirement. Because honestly, the only rogue ability that comes close to that is an advanced rogue talent (Crippling Strike).
Also, the more I think about it, the more I just wonder where Ninjas are getting the ability to cast these spells. Now, I understand what imagery they are trying to introduce with this character - I get it. But I think the bigger issue that needs to be addressed is to take a look at the mechanics for stealthing and give more opportunities for rogues, and moreso ninjas, to get sneak attack damage so they feel useful. Because the biggest issue I've found with rogues in both homebrew and PFS is the fact that GMs are very unforgiving in allowing sneak attacks, especially if you're trying to be a ranged person when it comes to that.
As long as the Inquisitor is able to put out tons of damage with his swift action economy, I don't see why there is a urgent need to cripple the poor Ninja, who has to melee to even approach that level of DPR.
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As long as the Inquisitor is able to put out tons of damage with his swift action economy, I don't see why there is a urgent need to cripple the poor Ninja, who has to melee to even approach that level of DPR.
Inquisitors don't get a lot of swift actions, and none of them equal in power to swift actioning invisibility. And a lot of domain swift actions (like from Growth domain) were made to standard actions. Ninja swift actions should be switched to move or standard actions. He's not poor by far with his slew of abilities. He puts the Inquisitor to shame I feel.
Inquisitors don't get a lot of swift actions, and none of them equal in power to swift actioning invisibility. And a lot of domain swift actions (like from Growth domain) were made to standard actions. Ninja swift actions should be switched to move or standard actions. He's not poor by far with his slew of abilities. He puts the Inquisitor to shame I feel.
only playtesting will tell. I dont feel this at all
Inquisitors don't get a lot of swift actions, and none of them equal in power to swift actioning invisibility. And a lot of domain swift actions (like from Growth domain) were made to standard actions. Ninja swift actions should be switched to move or standard actions. He's not poor by far with his slew of abilities. He puts the Inquisitor to shame I feel.
Your comments about the Growth domain are void as only Clerics are allowed to take subdomains.
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Your comments about the Growth domain are void as only Clerics are allowed to take subdomains.
Inquisitors don't get a lot of swift actions, and none of them equal in power to swift actioning invisibility. And a lot of domain swift actions (like from Growth domain) were made to standard actions. Ninja swift actions should be switched to move or standard actions. He's not poor by far with his slew of abilities. He puts the Inquisitor to shame I feel.
Actually, that's been errata'd...
"Subdomains can be selected by druids (except the metal
subdomain) and inquisitors (if their deity allows it)."
from AdvancedPlayersGuideErrata1_0.pdf p.2
Actually, that's been errata'd..."Subdomains can be selected by druids (except the metal
subdomain) and inquisitors (if their deity allows it)."from AdvancedPlayersGuideErrata1_0.pdf p.2
Ahh fair enough.
Back to the Inquisitor then, even with swift actions, it'll take them a while to get going.
Round 1. Swift... whatever their domain was, my DM at the time houseruled subdomains so I had Glory regardless and would swift Heroism aura
Round 2. Swift Judgment
Round 3. Swift bane
So yea they are swift actions, but a swift action isn't a free action.
As for the Ninjas use of swift actioning invisibility, see my earlier Necessary Fixes thread. Namely, the ability should be tweaked. My suggestion is to cut the rounds in half, and to raise the ki cost to 2.
Have any of you read the ninja playtest? It seems they are not doing any better than a rogue does.
It seems to be one of those things that looks good on paper, but does not work so well in practice.
Have any of you read the ninja playtest? It seems they are not doing any better than a rogue does.
It seems to be one of those things that looks good on paper, but does not work so well in practice.
Check mine, Shadow Clone pretty much saved me so much I really think it needs to be toned down.
Check mine, Shadow Clone pretty much saved me so much I really think it needs to be toned down.Have any of you read the ninja playtest? It seems they are not doing any better than a rogue does.
It seems to be one of those things that looks good on paper, but does not work so well in practice.
So in your game it was a bonus, but in another game(playtest) it did not help.
If the Eidolon could have done more damage you never would have been in that situation. I guess I will watch for more playtest. Right now the score is 1 to 1.
As long as the Inquisitor is able to put out tons of damage with his swift action economy, I don't see why there is a urgent need to cripple the poor Ninja, who has to melee to even approach that level of DPR.Inquisitors don't get a lot of swift actions, and none of them equal in power to swift actioning invisibility. And a lot of domain swift actions (like from Growth domain) were made to standard actions. Ninja swift actions should be switched to move or standard actions. He's not poor by far with his slew of abilities. He puts the Inquisitor to shame I feel.
You may want to re-read the Inquisitor. Judgement and Bane are both swift actions and a mid-level archer Inquisitor will kick the Ninjas behind in pure DPR.
Back to the Inquisitor then, even with swift actions, it'll take them a while to get going.
Round 1. Swift... whatever their domain was, my DM at the time houseruled subdomains so I had Glory regardless and would swift Heroism aura
Round 2. Swift Judgment
Round 3. Swift baneSo yea they are swift actions, but a swift action isn't a free action.
Who exactly cares about domains? The action economy of an 10th lvl archer Inquisitor goes as follows:
1st round: Swift: Start judgement; Move: Move+draw weapon; Standard: Cast Divine Favour/Power
2nd round: Swift: Start bane; Full-round: Full Attack, put out about 30-120 DPR per round with crappy equipment.
Who exactly cares about domains? The action economy of an 10th lvl archer Inquisitor goes as follows:1st round: Swift: Start judgement; Move: Move+draw weapon; Standard: Cast Divine Favour/Power
2nd round: Swift: Start bane; Full-round: Full Attack, put out about 30-120 DPR per round with crappy equipment.
In the case of the Glory subdomain I used? My party of course. +2 to hit and attack for everyone, including me, in a 30ft radius? Course I'm gonna use that.
In the case of the Glory subdomain I used? My party of course. +2 to hit and attack for everyone, including me, in a 30ft radius? Course I'm gonna use that.
Who exactly cares about domains? The action economy of an 10th lvl archer Inquisitor goes as follows:1st round: Swift: Start judgement; Move: Move+draw weapon; Standard: Cast Divine Favour/Power
2nd round: Swift: Start bane; Full-round: Full Attack, put out about 30-120 DPR per round with crappy equipment.
Fine for you, most Inquisitors don't have the Glory domain or their party make-up isn't as to-hit focused as your party seems to be. Anyway, my point still stands, the normal Inquisitor is ready to put out a quite impressive DPR ( which, realistically, will be about 90 DPR per round, with one miss calculated, at tenth level ), which just explodes at level 12. And with its swift actions, it has a very good action economy to do so.