Again, can anyone give me a reason other then ninja needs to be cooler, why these are anything but rogue talents?
Rogues don't have a Ki pool?
Even if the Ki abilities became "x times per day" (probably once) they would loose their versatility. That, IMO, would weaken them for the rouge.
And the ones needing ki pool are only that way because they are not currently talents. Most mimic major magic in one way or another but often better. The ki pool or lack there of is not even an issue.
They are barred from the rogue, just because. No reason other then the ninja needs to be unique, cooler and have better talents.
Again no other archetype does this, not even the samurai. And like it or not, mechanically it is an archetype{and smaller then some}. The name alone gave it the privilege of being called something else.
Again why are these not talents?
And the ones needing ki pool are only that way because they are not currently talents. Most mimic major magic in one way or another but often better. The ki pool or lack there of is not even an issue.
They are barred from the rogue, just because. No reason other then the ninja needs to be unique, cooler and have better talents.
Again no other archetype does this, not even the samurai. And like it or not, mechanically it is an archetype{and smaller then some}. The name alone gave it the privilege of being called something else.
Again why are these not talents?
Why attack the alt class, why not do something constructive and make a suggestion.
I think the perm ninja tricks should be taken off the class, make all the tricks cost Ki, then when ninja runs out of Ki, they become exactly what they should be a gimped rogue. The ninja remains mystical, and the rogue keeps their bag of tricks.
How am I attacking it? Since when is the truth an attack? It changes 6 things and has a total of 799 words{barring the tricks}, that is less then some archetypes, much less then some. The one alt class we have changes every single class feature and the spell list. So how is something that is less detailed and a smaller change then archetypes we have on the same scale as one that rewrites every ability?
It is not, so mechanically it is an archetype. like it or not.
I have given my suggestion but people want them not to be what they are for no reason. It does what no other class does, deny the parent class and other archetypes the new tricks just so it can be cooler. They have this thought that only a ninja should be mystical and have ablites that are common to many tropes and not just ninja's
And when I ask why, all you guys give me it "it is ninja" which is not a reason.
Actually no, being a ninja is no excuse. Nor have we ever said as such. As far as number of characters goes, you can use a lot of words to say very little. It is actually the impact of those words, and which mechanics that they change that defines archetype verses alt.
The change is not all that much. There is simply no reason to put a wall between rogue/ninja talents when they are the same thing. It lessens support and is messy for no gain.
This is just like a barbarian archetype{ and James said alt classes are just big archetypes} no allowing it's mystic rage powers because you did not take the elemental rage archetype.
It hurts not only the rogue for no reason,it repeats and wastes space for no reason. It puts a wall between "better" and "ok" talents for no reason.
The change is not all that much. There is simply no reason to put a wall between rogue/ninja talents when they are the same thing. It lessens support and is messy for no gain.
This is just like a barbarian archetype{ and James said alt classes are just big archetypes} no allowing it's mystic rage powers because you did not take the elemental rage archetype.
It hurts not only the rogue for no reason,it repeats and wastes space for no reason. It puts a wall between "better" and "ok" talents for no reason.
How are they better they are limited use, and unlike all the rogue talents that are limited use they are all tied to the same pool.
Sure in a 15 minute day the ninja will outclass the rogue, but in a real day of adventuring the rogue would show up the ninja any day of the week.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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How are they better they are limited use, and unlike all the rogue talents that are limited use they are all tied to the same pool.Sure in a 15 minute day the ninja will outclass the rogue, but in a real day of adventuring the rogue would show up the ninja any day of the week.
A lot of the rogue tricks that are ki fueled are better than (or at least equal to) the major magic rogue talent, which is usable once a day, and can't be recharged.
I've posted elsewhere, but to reiterate
So we have ninja tricks that are major magic over and over again, with recharge, and no prerequisites besides an accent. We have ninja tricks that flirt between second and third level spells, some of which *still* have free usages.
They should all be rogue tricks. The ki powered ones would be balanced by the ninja getting their pool with the class (giving up evasion, or in my suggestion evasion and skill points/class skills, or a feat to gain a ki pool. (And remember, burning that feat isn't an entry fee. A longsword using rogue isn't going to take rogue finesse.)
The Ninja still gets all their psionic focus tricks with a ki pool a ki packing rogue doesn't.
Most Ninja Tricks that don't relly in Ki Points should be just new Rogue Talents.
I.e. Deadly Range. I can't think of any reason for making it ninja-exclusive.
This. If something makes sense for both, welcome new Rogue talent!
But water down the Ninja and his Ki for balance = Bad, IMHO.
Just bring in more neat stuff for the rogue, if needed.
Again, can anyone give me a reason other then ninja needs to be cooler, why these are anything but rogue talents?
Okay here is the plan, we scrap the ninja and make the "mystical rogue" archtype, this archtype loses over half the rogue talents (stay with me here) BUT gains a few mystical ones. (like climbing walls, and disappearing. Maybe with some kind of point function to activate)
^ great archtype I know