If I've missed it, please forgive me.
But, could Paizo put up a link/sticky or something that had a preview and the word counter in it?
Basically, a tool we could use to preview our work without ever sending it anywhere (no submit button).
That way, contestants can just be using actual or official word counts.
No fuss, no muss.
Of course it will lead to endless prospective contestants thinking they entered when they've actually only previewed and gotten a word count.
Umm... there just may be no helping some people.
:)
Pretty please.
Yeah I'm kind of against this -- if you are good enough to be a superstar/designer of professional quality you should be able to do this on your own -- before you submit it.
I know I actually did up my entire entry on my word processor program before double checking it myself and copy/pasting it into the submission box (and checking it again there too).
Umm... there just may be no helping some people
I think you're on to something there.
Dedicated Voter Season 6
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If I've missed it, please forgive me.
But, could Paizo put up a link/sticky or something that had a preview and the word counter in it?
Basically, a tool we could use to preview our work without ever sending it anywhere (no submit button).
That way, contestants can just be using actual or official word counts.
No fuss, no muss.
Of course it will lead to endless prospective contestants thinking they entered when they've actually only previewed and gotten a word count.
Umm... there just may be no helping some people.
:)
Pretty please.
If someone hasn't already noted this, this has been discussed quite a bit in the last month.
The preview button in the submission area, gives you a word count.
Yeah I'm kind of against this -- if you are good enough to be a superstar/designer of professional quality you should be able to do this on your own -- before you submit it.
This sentiment has been echoed many times before in many areas, and I'm usually in full agreement with it; I'm not sure it applies quite so comfortably here, though.
A Superstar designer needs a whole smorgasbord of talents and abilities. "Never accidentally click on the wrong button, even once" is not, IMHO, one of them. Now, I think the current setup is excellent and easy to use, but yes, there have been several cases of people hitting "submit" instead of "preview" by accident or slip-of-the-mouse, and no, I don't think that's a particularly damning error to make. If you have a "destroy this entire document" option built into your spellcheck, then sooner or later you'll press it by accident. This is no different - because it is the official contest wordcount tool, and is meant to be used during development, not only submission.
I'm not saying the interface is poorly designed, nor that Paizo's webmasters need to run in circles over a few potential misclicks. I'm saying Hassan's suggestion would be helpful if, hypothetically, it were implemented. It would separate between wordcount-during-design functionality, and submission functionality. That sounds reasonable to me.
Another idea in a similar vein would be to have an "Are you sure?" screen before submission, declaring that this is your final, irrevocable submission; do you wish to continue? That would eliminate almost all the misfires.
Of course it will lead to endless prospective contestants thinking they entered when they've actually only previewed and gotten a word count.
Ah, but then we discriminate against people who don't read the instructions, not against people who accidentally misclicked at an inopportune moment. Sounds like an improvement to me.
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Dedicated Voter Season 6
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Yeah I'm kind of against this -- if you are good enough to be a superstar/designer of professional quality you should be able to do this on your own -- before you submit it.This sentiment has been echoed many times before in many areas, and I'm usually in full agreement with it; I'm not sure it applies quite so comfortably here, though.
A Superstar designer needs a whole smorgasbord of talents and abilities. "Never accidentally click on the wrong button, even once" is not, IMHO, one of them. Now, I think the current setup is excellent and easy to use, but yes, there have been several cases of people hitting "submit" instead of "preview" by accident or slip-of-the-mouse, and no, I don't think that's a particularly damning error to make. If you have a "destroy this entire document" option built into your spellcheck, then sooner or later you'll press it by accident. This is no different - because it is the official contest wordcount tool, and is meant to be used during development, not only submission.
I'm not saying the interface is poorly designed, nor that Paizo's webmasters need to run in circles over a few potential misclicks. I'm saying Hassan's suggestion would be helpful if, hypothetically, it were implemented. It would separate between wordcount-during-design functionality, and submission functionality. That sounds reasonable to me.
Another idea in a similar vein would be to have an "Are you sure?" screen before submission, declaring that this is your final, irrevocable submission; do you wish to continue? That would eliminate almost all the misfires.
Of course it will lead to endless prospective contestants thinking they entered when they've actually only previewed and gotten a word count.Ah, but then we discriminate against people who don't read the instructions, not against people who accidentally misclicked at an inopportune moment. Sounds like an improvement to me.
I find that when I make mistakes like this, it is usually because I'm going too fast. Slow down, make sure you are where you want to be before you right click, and all will be ok.
Yeah I'm kind of against this -- if you are good enough to be a superstar/designer of professional quality you should be able to do this on your own -- before you submit it.
Apparently superstars are telepathic. Obviously I'm not going to win this contest because no amount of concentrating is going to tell me what the methodology for word counting Paizo is using.
I find that when I make mistakes like this, it is usually because I'm going too fast. Slow down, make sure you are where you want to be before you right click, and all will be ok.
IMHO, superstars should be people capable of realizing good design. ie, putting in place a "self-destruct" system without a special system of activation that makes it difficult to pull off and doesn't has a redundancy "are you sure you want to blow yourself up?" check is bad design.
The only rule of the big red button is some one will press the big red button.
Yeah I'm kind of against this -- if you are good enough to be a superstar/designer of professional quality you should be able to do this on your own -- before you submit it.Apparently superstars are telepathic. Obviously I'm not going to win this contest because no amount of concentrating is going to tell me what the methodology for word counting Paizo is using.
Keep it 250 or less with the hardest version of word count you can find and you'll be square. Generally if you go with 5 characters per word that's the toughness used and you'll be okay.
Keep it 250 or less with the hardest version of word count you can find and you'll be square.Yeah I'm kind of against this -- if you are good enough to be a superstar/designer of professional quality you should be able to do this on your own -- before you submit it.Apparently superstars are telepathic. Obviously I'm not going to win this contest because no amount of concentrating is going to tell me what the methodology for word counting Paizo is using.
I don't give a rat's ass what the hardest version of word count I can find says. I want to know what the word counter the contractor is using to judge my work. Anyone willing to submit a proposal without the ability to test in process using the same method it will be tested by the reviewing team is a fool. Testing it at the last minute never leads to good things.
Is it really so hard to paste a rough version of your submission into the submission form and hit "Preview" to see what the word count is? Or to hit "Preview" on your final version, and trim out a dozen or so words if necessary before hitting "Submit"?
Is it really so hard to paste a rough version of your submission into the submission form and hit "Preview" to see what the word count is? Or to hit "Preview" on your final version, and trim out a dozen or so words if necessary before hitting "Submit"?
In a binary sense, no, it isn't.
In a practical sense, the "Death" button shouldn't be that close to the "Cake" button. Why not provide an arbitrary, noncommittal location to test the word count.|
Dedicated Voter Season 6
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I don't give a rat's ass what the hardest version of word count I can find says. I want to know what the word counter the contractor is using to judge my work. Anyone willing to submit a proposal without the ability to test in process using the same method it will be tested by the reviewing team is a fool. Testing it at the last minute never leads to good things.
I'm actually kinda flabberghasted here. I don't know how to respond to this.
I mean the tool is there, and it is available.
I mean seriously...
Is it really so hard to paste a rough version of your submission into the submission form and hit "Preview" to see what the word count is? Or to hit "Preview" on your final version, and trim out a dozen or so words if necessary before hitting "Submit"?
In a binary sense, no, it isn't.
In a practical sense, the "Death" button shouldn't be that close to the "Cake" button. Why not provide an arbitrary, noncommittal location to test the word count.
Hm... guess you best look close and not screw it up then uh? I mean yeah they are both right there but still if you aren't sure you can get a button click right what makes you think you can be a superstar?
Hm... guess you best look close and not screw it up then uh? I mean yeah they are both right there but still if you aren't sure you can get a button click right what makes you think you can be a superstar?Is it really so hard to paste a rough version of your submission into the submission form and hit "Preview" to see what the word count is? Or to hit "Preview" on your final version, and trim out a dozen or so words if necessary before hitting "Submit"?
In a binary sense, no, it isn't.
In a practical sense, the "Death" button shouldn't be that close to the "Cake" button. Why not provide an arbitrary, noncommittal location to test the word count.
I am confused as to how everyone keeps interchanging "superstar" with "omnipotent, super-powered being of radiant magnificence" rather than "normal person with better-than-average popular writing skills."
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Dedicated Voter Season 6
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I am confused as to how everyone keeps interchanging "superstar" with "omnipotent, super-powered being of radiant magnificence" rather than "normal person with better-than-average popular writing skills."
Because one needn't be omnipotent, super-powered, nor have radiant magnificence (indeed, neither radiant nor magnificent are requirements) to slow down, make sure you are hitting the correct button, then hit preview.
All one needs to be is careful.
I am confused as to how everyone keeps interchanging "superstar" with "omnipotent, super-powered being of radiant magnificence" rather than "normal person with better-than-average popular writing skills."Because one needn't be omnipotent, super-powered, nor have radiant magnificence (indeed, neither radiant nor magnificent are requirements) to slow down, make sure you are hitting the correct button, then hit preview.
All one needs to be is careful.
And a good designer needs to recognize everyone is not always careful. Especially not normal people.
Everyone should be as careful as they can, but unless the contest here is to see how many people can press the correct of two buttons the most without failing due to variously caused mishaps, I utterly fail to see the opposition to providing an unrelated-to-submission word count tool.PS. If that is the contest, I'm dropping out because I'm terrible at monotonous tasks.
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Dedicated Voter Season 6
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And a good designer needs to recognize everyone is not always careful. Especially not normal people.
Everyone should be as careful as they can, but unless the contest here is to see how many people can press the correct of two buttons the most without failing due to variously caused mishaps, I utterly fail to see the opposition to providing an unrelated-to-submission word count tool.PS. If that is the contest, I'm dropping out because I'm terrible at monotonous tasks.
I've had this problem in the last couple months of helping perpetuate an argument that wasn't helpful or conducive to the friendly atmosphere that RPG Superstar has so carefully cultivated over the years.
So I am going to bow out on this one with a last little bit here.
I still don't get it. As people, as humans, we make mistakes. Part of making mistakes is taking responsibility for the mistakes we make, doing our best not to make them again, and moving on with a smile--a lesson learned.
I have many theories on why you might be still arguing this point (or any of the points you've argued in the last couple months), but I'm going to bow out on this argument, as I don't feel it serves any further useful purpose.
Cartigan,
Just a thought for you. You've made your point. It hasn't been well received. I can't speak for the current judges, but I can tell you in prior years the fact (in year 2) an official word counter was provided was considered MORE than enough of a help for the contestants, and we are the people (or in my case I "was once one of the people") who actually work with freelancers and so I think its pretty fair of us to say what is or isn't fair to them. So getting lost on the "where the button is" issue is really missing the point. But you've made your point.
Now either you will advance or you won't. I hope you do. But if you do, I'm not sure this is the public discussion you want going on. You've gone beyond making a point. Perhaps a short time out, take a break, see how things develop, then if the issue still matters to you, start a new thread in a constructive manner rather than seeming to scream "this is so unfair," which, frankly, pretty much no one (me included) cares to hear.
I'm not trying to silence discussion. I'm just trying to help you.
Clark
Because one needn't be omnipotent, super-powered, nor have radiant magnificence (indeed, neither radiant nor magnificent are requirements) to slow down, make sure you are hitting the correct button, then hit preview.All one needs to be is careful.
This is absolutely true.
OTOH, I can say that every time I previewed a WIP, I was holding my breath. No sudden movements with the mouse! Keep your hands and arms away from the Enter button, sir! I was very very careful. It added up to a fair amount of oxygen deprivation.Again, the current system is excellent IMHO. But Hassan, Cartigan and I are pointing out that, in our opinion, "never accidentally clicking on the wrong button" is not the indicator of Superstar quality that some others have made of it. All the above responses have been on the lines of "but you can be careful and avoid making a mistake." This is certainly true, but in a large pool of people, some of them are going to make that mistake. Not on purpose. By accident - a slip, a misclick, a jerk of the mouse.
And if it is possible to decide, by interface design, whether or not that mistake effectively results in disqualification, then it does beg the question "is this a mistake that we think merits irrevocable disqualification?".
I can see why you might say that it does. Following instructions is crucial. But I can disregard instructions and write with speling errrs, and then spellcheck before submission. I can add background stories two pages long and format my title with blinking letters, and cut those out before I send it in. What's crucial is following instructions in the final draft; nobody cares how you get there. On the other hand, I can certainly understand how those few who slip and send in an early, unready draft without meaning to, will feel that they've fallen out of the contest for the combination of a technicality and extremely bad luck. So Sean asks "is it really so hard to hit 'Preview'; and those who had a misfire ask "is it really so hard to ask 'You are submitting your entry; Continue/Abort?'". They're both technically right; I'm fine with ruling either way, but claims that "anybody who makes this mistake is by definition unprofessional" or "anybody who gets really close to his allotted wordcount needs too much hand-holding to work in design" do grate.
In a practical sense, the "Death" button shouldn't be that close to the "Cake" button. Why not provide an arbitrary, noncommittal location to test the word count.
"Ahhh... you said 'death' first. You are lucky we are the Church of England."
lol--watched that last night with the in-laws :)
As someone who does software testing for a living: I agree with Cartigan and Standback. The word-count-tool as final-submission-tool is bad design. Yes, I understand this is a serious contest, but as others have pointed out, that's not really what RPG SuperStar should be testing.
To offer a more helpful suggestion: I was using Microsoft Word 2010, and from my observations, it always had the exact-same word-count as the official tool. It stands to reason that older versions of MS Word (back to at least 2003) would use the same word-count-algorithm.
It's also amazingly helpful because by default it continuously shows you the word-count total in the lower-left corner as you type, without having to click on anything.
Now, I recognize that not everyone has access to an expensive software suite, so it can't be a universal solution. But that's the help I can offer in this thread.
I'm fine either way, pretty agreeable... I'm good with the actual submission process, as is.
I just wanted the tool, now. Before the round begins. Can we access the word counter now?
As I said, I may have missed it.
Thanks!
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I'm fine either way, pretty agreeable... I'm good with the actual submission process, as is.
I just wanted the tool, now. Before the round begins. Can we access the word counter now?
As I said, I may have missed it.
Thanks!
Which round are you referring to?
Because the Round 1 deadline is already past.You won't need the Round 2 deadline, unless you make the initial 32, which won't be announced for 2 weeks.
If you want to get a head start on a Round 2 submission, just in case, that's possible, and commendable, but you won't know the specifics of the round, until the 32 entrants are announced, so you'll have to amend later, what you're writing now.
Something else to consider is just what this contest is -- it isn't simply a "oh enter here and get a prize" sort of deal. This is a "prove your worth in the fire of trails and earn a job" contest. As such simply putting in an entry isn't proof of admission; putting in the entry correctly is. This includes not only formatting and spelling but following instructions (such as when to put it in and how to put it in) which while it seems a simple part and almost not worthy of your time is of vast importance to an employer (especially an employer of freelance).
They don't want people that are going to complain "but this isn't what I want to write" or "but this isn't fair" or "I can't make that deadline/word count". They want people that are professional and will say "I can do that."
As such I personally wouldn't go before a company that might hire me and complain about the hiring process that requires me to look as professional as I hope to present myself.
Something else to consider is just what this contest is -- it isn't simply a "oh enter here and get a prize" sort of deal. This is a "prove your worth in the fire of trails and earn a job" contest. As such simply putting in an entry isn't proof of admission; putting in the entry correctly is.
Like I said, if this is a contest to find who can press the correct of two buttons the most without any sort of mishap, I'm dropping out, even if I make the top 32.
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Marathon Voter Season 7
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Like I said, if this is a contest to find who can press the correct of two buttons the most without any sort of mishap, I'm dropping out, even if I make the top 32.
This is a contest to earn a job. A job that will involve actual work and commitment. I have a hard time understanding why someone who doesn't want the job would even enter. But being willing to drop out, even if you make the top 32, over a disagreement with the placement of a forum button, strikes me as a sign that you really don't want the job.
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Something else to consider is just what this contest is -- it isn't simply a "oh enter here and get a prize" sort of deal. This is a "prove your worth in the fire of trails and earn a job" contest. As such simply putting in an entry isn't proof of admission; putting in the entry correctly is.Like I said, if this is a contest to find who can press the correct of two buttons the most without any sort of mishap, I'm dropping out, even if I make the top 32.
No. It's a contest to find a responsible, talented creator of works. If you are impatient and cannot take the time to slow down and make sure you are clicking the correct buttons, then you are correct, you should drop out. This is not a complex problem. It's not like they made this difficult or hid the preview button. If you are serious about wanting to win the chance to create an adventure then you will take your time and make sure everything is correct. Don't try to put the onus on Paizo. It's not their job.
Look at it like this. Is it the car manufacturer's fault that you pressed the gas pedal instead of the brake and crashed into the car in front of you? They really shouldn't have put the pedals so close together. No. It's not their fault that you weren't careful and paid attention.
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Dedicated Voter Season 6
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OTOH, I can say that every time I previewed a WIP, I was holding my breath. No sudden movements with the mouse! Keep your hands and arms away from the Enter button, sir! I was very very careful. It added up to a fair amount of oxygen deprivation.
hehe... trust me, I was right there with you. I wanted to make doubly sure I wasn't going to go too fast and hit the wrong button.
Like I said, if this is a contest to find who can press the correct of two buttons the most without any sort of mishap, I'm dropping out, even if I make the top 32.This is a contest to earn a job. A job that will involve actual work and commitment. I have a hard time understanding why someone who doesn't want the job would even enter. But being willing to drop out, even if you make the top 32, over a disagreement with the placement of a forum button, strikes me as a sign that you really don't want the job.
I have a hard time understanding why everyone is so opposed to the idea of a contractor providing to people submitting proposals the tools necessary to properly set up material to be submitted.
Look at it like this. Is it the car manufacturer's fault that you pressed the gas pedal instead of the brake and crashed into the car in front of you? They really shouldn't have put the pedals so close together. No. It's not their fault that you weren't careful and paid attention.
Except it is nothing like that at all.
If Paizo is using a contest of the general public to find a perfect person, I wish them the best of luck.
Afterthought, I would be interested to know the professions or target professions for people on each side of this issue.
Perhaps because in the end, if you get the job, you're not going to have an "official" word counter but you will still be expected to hit the correct number of words for the adventure.
Therefore it is perhaps a good idea to start getting used to the idea of counting your own words and being able to judge whether you are under or over target rather than relying on the 'contractor' to do it for you.
Or perhaps they just consider that the 'contractor' has already supplied appropriate tools for the job and it's up to us to use them well.
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I have a hard time understanding why everyone is so opposed to the idea of a contractor providing to people submitting proposals the tools necessary to properly set up material to be submitted.
But, they are providing the proper tools. They give you a preview area to check your word count and what your submission will look like. I have a hard time understanding where your problem lies with this.
Look at it like this. Is it the car manufacturer's fault that you pressed the gas pedal instead of the brake and crashed into the car in front of you? They really shouldn't have put the pedals so close together. No. It's not their fault that you weren't careful and paid attention.Except it is nothing like that at all.
If Paizo is using a contest of the general public to find a perfect person, I wish them the best of luck.
They are not looking for the perfect person. There have been plenty of people who went through the rounds with typos, incorrect formatting, poor grammar, etc. There are no perfect people. They are looking for creative people who can follow directions and properly use the tools at their disposal.
And, also, there is no law that states you have to enter the contest. If you think they are unfair and not providing you with what you need, then don't enter. Which, I hope you did enter. I would love to see what you came up with! I think everyone should try to enter. You can't win if you don't try. Even if you mess up and do something wrong, at least you tried.
Perhaps because in the end, if you get the job, you're not going to have an "official" word counter but you will still be expected to hit the correct number of words for the adventure.
Therefore it is perhaps a good idea to start getting used to the idea of counting your own words and being able to judge whether you are under or over target rather than relying on the 'contractor' to do it for you.
Or perhaps they just consider that the 'contractor' has already supplied appropriate tools for the job and it's up to us to use them well.
I could easily elaborate - a lot - on why this is just bad but one can read the rest of my posts altogether to get it.
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Marathon Voter Season 7
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Perhaps because in the end, if you get the job, you're not going to have an "official" word counter but you will still be expected to hit the correct number of words for the adventure.
Therefore it is perhaps a good idea to start getting used to the idea of counting your own words and being able to judge whether you are under or over target rather than relying on the 'contractor' to do it for you.
Or perhaps they just consider that the 'contractor' has already supplied appropriate tools for the job and it's up to us to use them well.
I could easily elaborate - a lot - on why this is just bad but one can read the rest of my posts altogether to get it.
When I am writing I pay constant attention to my own wordcount. Its not bad, its part of the job. Moreover, when turning over a word-count specific document, I understand it is generally my responsibility to include the wordcount with the manuscript.
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As someone who does software testing for a living: I agree with Cartigan and Standback. The word-count-tool as final-submission-tool is bad design. Yes, I understand this is a serious contest, but as others have pointed out, that's not really what RPG SuperStar should be testing.
To offer a more helpful suggestion: I was using Microsoft Word 2010, and from my observations, it always had the exact-same word-count as the official tool. It stands to reason that older versions of MS Word (back to at least 2003) would use the same word-count-algorithm.
It's also amazingly helpful because by default it continuously shows you the word-count total in the lower-left corner as you type, without having to click on anything.
Now, I recognize that not everyone has access to an expensive software suite, so it can't be a universal solution. But that's the help I can offer in this thread.
No need to have access to expensive software; Open Office is free, Word compatible and it also has a word counter. Since I have only used MS Office or Open Office I can't speak for other word processing software. But I would find it odd if they didn't all have a word counting capability; it is a pretty important need in a wide variety of writing professions.
Like free-lancing for the games industry, as a totally random example. ;)
While I found just submitting to be a bit nerve-wracking, I can't say I saw any great difficulty with the buttons. They were the same three buttons I have available after every message-board post, so frankly, hitting preview before posting the entry was sort of second nature. When I did, and saw the word count at the top, I was actually a bit impressed. It was an unexpected touch, and it was a comfort to have the submission counter confirm what my word processor had already told me.
That said, I was not relying on or expecting Paizo to do my word counting for me. They gave me a hard limit of 300 words and gave me my parameters. It was up to me as the prospective writer to not only conform to that, but determine for myself that I had conformed. Nothing to do with trying to be a Superstar or omnipotent, and everything to do with taking responsibility for my work.
I think Paizo should just do away with the word count tool.
Also, all submissions should be inscribed in blood upon lambskin vellum and delivered by carrier badger.
Hey Folks,
Happy New Year! I didn't mean to set off a powder keg.
Is there an Implosive Runes spell? LOL.
Wishing all the best of luck in all their endeavors, including RPG Superstar 2011!
Peace.
To offer a more helpful suggestion: I was using Microsoft Word 2010, and from my observations, it always had the exact-same word-count as the official tool. It stands to reason that older versions of MS Word (back to at least 2003) would use the same word-count-algorithm.
All word processors have word counts. That doesn't mean they are all the same.
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Afterthought, I would be interested to know the professions or target professions for people on each side of this issue.
I was wondering the same thing. I essentially work as tech support for a CMS used by a major university. My job is to help users (the faculty) utilize the software to teach online. My degree is actually in English, but my role is to help bridge that gap between the tech and our non-techie users.
I get the impression that Cartigan and the other posters who are heavily in favor of testing tools, web form design, and word count methodology are likely people who work in computer programming or some sort of scientific field. I used to be a writing tutor and often worked with engineering students, and I see similarities in focus over details and processes.
I understand those are things that are extremely important to those types of individuals. Personally, I think this debate about word counting methods and the design of the submit button are really making mountains out of molehills, but that's my personal view and I sort of understand where the others are coming from. It's just that I personally don't think it's a big deal. I don't think the word count could possibly vary by more than 2-4 words at the most, and I know the submission tool's word count matched what I got in both Word 2010 and Word 2003. As far as the location of the submit button... well, I'm one of those people that thinks it's ludicrous that McDonald's has to put labels on their cups to remind people that "Coffee is hot."
Not trying to invalidate other people's opinions, just pointing out that it appears this is one of those issues that is not as much of a priority for some as it is for others.
I think it's interesting the different lenses people view this contest through. In another thread we have graphic design types voicing concerns over transparency, crowd sourcing, and intellectual property. Here we have another group concerned about the actual methodology of the technology being used. I would say that people's "day jobs" have a strong impact on what they're looking for in this contest.
While I found just submitting to be a bit nerve-wracking, I can't say I saw any great difficulty with the buttons. They were the same three buttons I have available after every message-board post, so frankly, hitting preview before posting the entry was sort of second nature. When I did, and saw the word count at the top, I was actually a bit impressed. It was an unexpected touch, and it was a comfort to have the submission counter confirm what my word processor had already told me.
That said, I was not relying on or expecting Paizo to do my word counting for me. They gave me a hard limit of 300 words and gave me my parameters. It was up to me as the prospective writer to not only conform to that, but determine for myself that I had conformed. Nothing to do with trying to be a Superstar or omnipotent, and everything to do with taking responsibility for my work.
+1
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
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I think it's a different perspective based on different professions.
I'm a graphic designer, and not in any way a computer programmer or anything. I used pages, ms word for the mac, and ms word 2010 on a pc at various times and didn't notice any significant difference between any of them. But I still kept myself at a self-imposed threshold of 290, and I checked the preview before I submitted.
Maybe software developers feel more need to have an idiot-proof GUI as part of their professionalism and those who don't do software don't understand why it's important.
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All word processors have word counts. That doesn't mean they are all the same.
To offer a more helpful suggestion: I was using Microsoft Word 2010, and from my observations, it always had the exact-same word-count as the official tool. It stands to reason that older versions of MS Word (back to at least 2003) would use the same word-count-algorithm.
Actually, Erik Freund wrote that. :) But I agree with what he said, so the mis-attribution doesn't bother me.
And I would have to respectfully disagree. For fun and science, I popped my submission into three different word processors this morning: Open Office, Microsoft Word and Google Docs. They all gave me the same word count. I suspect that would be the case regardless of the word processor used. If those three programs can all agree on what a word is and how to count it, I don't think you'll find a widely-used WP program that disagrees with them.
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Maybe software developers feel more need to have an idiot-proof GUI as part of their professionalism and those who don't do software don't understand why it's important.
I believe this may be at the heart of it. I recall on the other thread about word count a programmer suggested that the submission tool should be designed so it is impossible to submit an entry over the word count. That sort of "fool proof" user interface I suspect is highly valued by programmers, who want to do as much as possible up front to prevent the dreaded ID-10T error. ;)
That said, I think the judges' response to that was that being able to follow directions was part of the test, and making it idiot proof actually would not do anything to further that goal.
Sean and the other developers don't need a tool that enforces word count, they need writers who can follow directions and hit their deadlines.
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Dedicated Voter Season 6
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I'm curious.
I did follow last year's competition from about mid-January on... yeah, I found out about it way too late to enter, and had to wait an entire year just about... but had fun entering this year.
I didn't read every single thread for every year.
Did this argument come up in every year?
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
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That said, I think the judges' response to that was that being able to follow directions was part of the test, and making it idiot proof actually would not do anything to further that goal.Sean and the other developers don't need a tool that enforces word count, they need writers who can follow directions and hit their deadlines.
I agree.
I get why someone might not understand why the judges are resisting fixing what some see as a flaw, especially since it would prevent more mistakes in the future. That's a difference in perspective.
But I think they don't realize that it's ok to make it part of the test. In my opinion, if you get tripped up by word count being off by 1 or 2 words, or the "Submit" and "Preview" buttons being next to each other, then you've learned a valuable lesson on being more careful.
You're submitting something that you want to be as professional as possible. You should "measure twice, cut once" like any other important project.
As an example:
So you double and triple check. After you paste from Word into the message board window, you check not only word count, but also make sure words are italicized, paragraph breaks are in there, etc.
Like I said, if this is a contest to find who can press the correct of two buttons the most without any sort of mishap, I'm dropping out, even if I make the top 32.
Cartigan, your attitude is horrible. It is patently foolish to even suggest this is "a contest to find who can press the correct of two buttons the most without any sort of mishap". That is just silly to even suggest.
Horrid attitude coupled with the always wonderful "do it my way or I'M LEAVING" post. Great.
Really? You will drop out even if you make the Top 32?
Then I formally request Vic and company simply delete your entry now.
Come on, Cartigan, grow up.
Clark