The comic continues with predictable (but still fun) results.That doesn't make a whole lot of sense, to be honest.
** spoiler omitted **
Maybe I'm over-analyzing, but this was kinda disappointing.
Why does Minrah have good enough stealth to pull that off?
Irrelevant. It's all about dice rolls, and regardless of Redcloak's wisdom score, there isn't going to be a large enough difference between that and her Dex (even if it's negative, which, given her light armor it probably isn't) to make it a sure thing; also stacking circumstance bonuses grant various +2s.
EDIT: to be clear, Clerics don't get listen or spot as class skills; while goblins often have Alertness, that's a generic Warrior goblin, and doesn't cover those who ride mounts, and certainly doesn't cover clerics.
A cleric might start at Wis 18, and even at maximized all perfect Wis increase bonuses, by level 20 (which Redcloak doesn't seem to be, yet), you've got a +6 from item, a +5 from level, and maaayyyybe a +5 from inherent (but, again, we've not seen evidence of this). That puts him at a maximum of +16, or 18+16=34. The bonus is (34-10)/2=24/2=12.
Minrah has light armor (at least if memory serves), meaning she likely has a +1 or +2 to her dexterity. But even if she had the standard dump, she'd likely be at an ~8 on average, netting her a -1 at most, and a -2 for her armor.
While a 15 seems insurmountable, you've got Redcloak taking penalties (such as a -2 from Durkon and meetings, -2 from his own internal conflict), and Minrah bonuses (likely getting a +2 or - unlikely, but possible - even +4 from total cover).
Even presuming no benefits at all, she's within dice-roll range, and with benefits, depending on how generous the GM is being (and we know Rich can be a very generous author GM-when-functioning-as-an-author) she's sitting on +4, he's sitting on a -4, and that makes our effective +15 bonus drop down to +8: a better-than-50/50 odds.
Anyway, that's just one take on it.
Why is Implosion taking so long to kill him, when it should be instantaneous?
The effect is instantaneous, but the spell lasts for 1 round per level.
Durkon is effectively repeatedly making his fortitude saves.
The main problem, of course, is,
You can target a particular creature only once with each casting of the spell.
... so I suppose you could take it as talking is a free action. :D
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Well now! That's what I call a hammer drop. :)
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Also, Redcloak's foolishness is disappointingly banal.
Not because it's written disappointingly, but because, once again, I overestimated his better nature.
Ah, well.
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I think we all over-estimated his ability to see the bigger picture, Tact.
But such is the nature of villains.
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The second-to-last panel implies some sort of spell effect which probably concealed Minrah. But all the math talk and the specifics of how the spell works doesn't matter. Burlew has repeatedly said that he'll ignore those sorts of details if it doesn't serve the story he wants to tell.
Anyway, I think it's great Durkon wanted to try and negotiate with Redcloak, but I love that it didn't work out because it's unexpected and potentially more interesting this way.
EDIT: But Thomas' post immediately before mine sums it up nicely.
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The second-to-last panel implies some sort of spell effect which probably concealed Minrah. But all the math talk and the specifics of how the spell works doesn't matter. Burlew has repeatedly said that he'll ignore those sorts of details if it doesn't serve the story he wants to tell.
Yup!
But the basic math of hiding works out fine, either way.
EDIT: Also, the spell she's using is wind walk and she's using the 600 ft. fly option (meaning she could have hung well back from the place - far enough to apply an easy -15 or more (with a 600 ft. speed, she can apply up to a -50 without really worrying about it).
If fully clothed in white, they are 80% likely to be mistaken for clouds, fog, vapors, or the like
I don't know that she's "fully clothed in white" but the dull gray of her armor may (or may not) count (especially as the local background clouds all look kind of gray).
That said, she had to be operating under the idea that negotiations would break down, though, as
A wind walker can regain its physical form as desired and later resume the cloud form. Each change to and from vaporous form takes 5 rounds, which counts toward the duration of the spell (as does any time spent in physical form).
Unless it's just Durkon dismissing it, as,
As noted above, you can dismiss the spell, and you can even dismiss it for individual wind walkers and not others.
Anyway, I think it's great Durkon wanted to try and negotiate with Redcloak, but I love that it didn't work out because it's unexpected and potentially more interesting this way.
EDIT: But Thomas' post immediately before mine sums it up nicely.
I think we all over-estimated his ability to see the bigger picture, Tact.
But such is the nature of villains.
Agreed. :)
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I am approaching the point of 'I don't care what happens to this character' with Redcloak. His 'I have to stick to the plan or my brother died for nothing.' line keeps popping up like a bad penny and overstayed it's welcome(Like Nale's dad his psionic sidekick who kept chasing the Order.) I know Burlow is going to have the Plan work out in the end but seeing it fail and the ending comic be of a new 1st level party going out to kill goblins would no be inappropriate. Redcloak wouldn't budge and so doomed goblinkind.
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I'm glad I'm the Summary Wizard then. Or something. :)
Elan would be proud of Durkons retort to Redcloaks accusation.
So do I get an official title or anything? Just curious.
So do I get an official title or anything? Just curious.
Only if the Paizo staff deems you worthy.
Darn. Oh well. I'll make myself a new button.
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New comic! The frustration continues.
I'm glad they did a bad plan with some planning. Also once more Redcloak misses the big picture.
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Goblins man. what are yuo gonna do? Should of went with Kobolds.
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I like that Bugbears have 'spirited' discussions using fists too. Reminds me of old time Parliament. ;)
Thing is: Ms. Shaleshoe is not wrong.
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Greyview is pretty great. :)
Also, yes Minrah's logic is pretty spot on regarding Redcloak
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Greyview is pretty great. :)
Also, yes Minrah's logic is pretty spot on regarding Redcloak
Also, Redcloak is wrong in another way - The Dark One has the best bargaining position he will ever have right now.
By beginning negotiations right now, he would either
1 - help save the current world (with the Goblin still holding Azure City).
2 - put himself in a good position to help remake the new world if this one must be destroyed to contain the Snarl (with four colors).
Very true Fyre.
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Dwarves makes good points. Redcloak while frustrating is well written. I've met people like redcloak that do mental backflips to keep thier ideologies moral in their own eyes. This is what real world evil looks like... well minue the whole goblin thing and magic being tossed around.
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Vid,
Again, very true about mental backflips and side flips.
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I sort of see Redcloak as a mental trapeze artist myself...and he is currently flying without a net.
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New strip is up!
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I sort of see Redcloak as a mental trapeze artist myself...and he is currently flying without a net.
Well, Start of Darkness (awesome read by the way) clearly shows that Redcloak has done awful things in the past just to avoid facing his responsibilities in all this.
Re-reading it now makes his decision painfully obvious.
Redcloak only cares about not having to face any guilt, no matter how many goblins die.
Guilt avoidance is something some villains do well.
Also I feel bad that Minrah got double face smashed.
Also I feel bad that Minrah got double face smashed.
Good ol' 'Mace Face.'
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Also I feel bad that Minrah got double face smashed.Good ol' 'Mace Face.'
She can join the ranks of 'Taser Face'.
I prefer she keep Taser face out of her resume.
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The dwarves should tell Xykon about the gods' plan to reboot the world! He'll be sure to listen to reason!
Yeah, Androstre, and Thanos likes saving helpless kittens from trees.
I think Tri is correct though about expecting a return match between Redcloak and O-chul. Maybe.
Also Xykon appearing is pretty much on point for how this entire thing was pretty terrible to start with...
You know if only someone had suggested maybe even ordered Durkon not to go and speak to that goblin cleric beforehand.
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You know if only someone had suggested maybe even ordered Durkon not to go and speak to that goblin cleric beforehand.
He didn't order him not to go. He ordered him not to use Sending.
And I figure the rest of the Order will show up any strip now. It didn't take them long to realize Durkon was missing.
Both Durkon and you know what roy meant!
o_O
I don't think Durkon's meeting Thor JUST yet.
But I do think that it's easy enough to see that Durkon did follow the letter but not the spirit of Roy's order.
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I finally was the first to post a new strip. My life now has meaning, and my existence now has validity.
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1215 Present Company Excepted
I like Minrah's loyal little hammer catching up.
I finally was the first to post a new strip. My life now has meaning, and my existence now has validity.
*salute*
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It reminded me of this one. Go Team Cleric!