| 2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Dwarves are not slowed down by armor.
Flying spellcasters have their fly speed reduced due to armor or encumbrance.
Is a flying dwarf's fly speed reduced for wearing heavy armor?
(ie - a dwarf paladin in full plate who had the party sorcerer buff him with the fly spell)
I would say yes.
Due to the fact that the fly spell has its own speed listing. So both a human and dwarf (unencumbered), would both fly at 60 feet per round. There for their speed for being encumbered should be reduced evenly as well.
Made me laugh!
And I agree with the other three posters.
Ruyan.
I disagree.
Unless the dwarf's ability specifically limits it to land speed, then it wouldn't be reduced for flying, climbing, swimming, or anything else.
Besides- where's the harm? Give the little angry ball of iron its day in the sun :)
-S
I disagree.
Unless the dwarf's ability specifically limits it to land speed, then it wouldn't be reduced for flying, climbing, swimming, or anything else.
Besides- where's the harm? Give the little angry ball of iron its day in the sun :)
-S
Not only is the Dwarf flying, but now he's in the sun? Talk about insult to injury... :)
Greetings, fellow travellers.
It says "base speed" is not modified by armor or encumberance. Since dwarves are land-based my interpretation is their racial trait does not work for fly.
Ruyan.
Well when he's flying, his base speed is his flying speed..
when he's swimming, climbing, what have you.
-S
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When I read this thread title the "Flight of the Valkyries" suddenly began playing in my head! I then imagined flying V's of dwarves in fullplate darkening the skies overhead...and the lead black bearded dwarf shouting:
"Hawkmen! DIIVVEE!
*sniff* So beautiful!
By the by, I also agree that the dwarven racial trait has no effect on the modification of their base fly speed (as given by the spell) for wearing heavy armor while flying.
Well when he's flying, his base speed is his flying speed..
when he's swimming, climbing, what have you.
-S
So are you saying that a Dwarf base flying speed is 20 ?
Question for Selgard
No, I'm saying the spell sets his base speed for that mode of travel.
If the ability meant base land speed then it would have said so- just as they did to the Monk. The monk doesn't get a speed increase- he gets a land speed increase.
Slow and Steady: Dwarves have a base speed of 20 feet, but their speed is never modified by armor or encumbrance.
...their speed is never modified by armor or encumbrance.
They have this one tiny little bonus that no one else gets.. Why all the dwarf hate? Is it sooo powerful to let them go normal speed while flying?
-S
No, I'm saying the spell sets his base speed for that mode of travel.
If the ability meant base land speed then it would have said so- just as they did to the Monk. The monk doesn't get a speed increase- he gets a land speed increase.
Slow and Steady: Dwarves have a base speed of 20 feet, but their speed is never modified by armor or encumbrance....their speed is never modified by armor or encumbrance.
They have this one tiny little bonus that no one else gets.. Why all the dwarf hate? Is it sooo powerful to let them go normal speed while flying?
-S
PF phb page 21 = Dwarf Racial Traits
Slow and Steady: Dwarves have a base speed of 20 feat, but their speed is never modified by armor or encumbrance.
(notice that this is one sentence and not two)
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Now a Dwarf base speed is his land speed, which is never modified by armor or encumbrance.
Fly spell (( Or being on a horse/Riding animal )), has its own listed base speed. When using a fly spell or riding animal, you are not using your own base speed. When the Fly spell or riding animal is encumbered, then they (spell or animal0 are suffering the speed reduction. The Dwarf is just along for the ride.
Being on a horse or riding animal is different because you use their speeds, just like riding on a cart would or if someone else carried you would.
A fly spell though modifies you directly and gives you a new speed, which is then altered by.. You. Things like your fly skill or your encumbrance or whatnot.. Or in case of the dwarf- the fact that their speed is never reduced by armor or encumbrance. If a dwarf wore boots of striding and springing they would net that full benefit to the bonus the boots wore as well.
"Their base speed of 20 feet is never modified by armor or encumbrance" isn't what the sentence says though.
It says two things.
1) base land speed is 20
2) their speed is never modified by armor or encumbrance.
It doesn't say "but their base land speed is never modified.." it says "..their speed..."
-S
Not only is the Dwarf flying, but now he's in the sun?
I don't know about flying, but unless he has found a way out of that cage, and then out of that desert, the dwarf is still in the sun. Since this is an extraplanar desert where night does not hold sway, we can exclude that possibility, too.
Being on a horse or riding animal is different because you use their speeds, just like riding on a cart would or if someone else carried you would.
A fly spell though modifies you directly and gives you a new speed, which is then altered by.. You. Things like your fly skill or your encumbrance or whatnot.. Or in case of the dwarf- the fact that their speed is never reduced by armor or encumbrance. If a dwarf wore boots of striding and springing they would net that full benefit to the bonus the boots wore as well.
"Their base speed of 20 feet is never modified by armor or encumbrance" isn't what the sentence says though.
It says two things.
1) base land speed is 20
2) their speed is never modified by armor or encumbrance.It doesn't say "but their base land speed is never modified.." it says "..their speed..."
-S
Dir Sir, i think you are mistaken. As such i will agree that we Disagree.
Other dwarves cheer!
lol, ya if i was a dwarf .. i would rather have 60/40 fly speed vs 20/20 land speed any day :)
What the hell? I comment that the thread title is amazing, and it suddenly changes to something 1000% less awesome? That sucks.
Which one was the awesome one? It's supposed to be "When dwarves fly!" AFTER the change. Oddly, it looked to me like it reverted to the original title (which I can't even remember) after an hour, and now that I'm back a few hours later, it seems to be back to "When dwarves fly!" like it should be.
What's going on here?
Flying Dwarves in (heavy) armor - something like this!
Threads like this make me yearn for the good ol' days of AD&D. Yes, you had to look up tables or learn silly THAC0 rules, but back then a flying dwarf usually meant that some wizard's head would be rollin' in the near future. (Or that your DM just saw the Ring and came up with singing dwarven valkyries on miniature - and stout - pegasi.)
And I don't even like AD&D.
Well, I think it is safe to assume that dwarves' base speed is a flying speed. Nothing RAW states that their base speed is land speed, an it is obviously much more awesome to let all of them fly.
Ok, now you done it!
I can´t get the idea of playing an dwarfen bard/dragon disciple out of my head.
I wonder if this could work well.
Maybe as arcane duelist, using some kind of reach weapon and fly-by attack....
This is one of the greatest thread titles of all time. That is all I have to say.
+1
Just to resurrect an old thread and because it seemed unsettled....
I have a Dwarf Cleric with the Travel Domain, as such the 3rd level Domain spell is Fly. So this will come up.
While the Dwarf has the Slow and Steady ability, the Travel Domain adds +10 to base speed. So not only is there the question of whether Slow and Steady impacted by the Fly spell, but also does the Travel Domain ability add to this.
I can see this both ways. I think the ultimate question is does Fly give the target a base fly speed? It doesn't say it specifically. Was this by design that it didn't use flying base speed or an oversight?
Land speed is normally BASE speed because it's the BASIS of your climb and swim speeds. However I do believe that when a character gains a swim speed, fly speed, burrow speed, or climb speed, these in addition to land speed all become base speeds.
Resurrecting an old thread again, because it may become relevant to me in the near future.
The entry reads:
"Dwarves have a base speed of 20 feet, but their speed is never modified by armor or encumbrance."
It says their base speed is 20 feet, but it does not define a specific speed that is never modified by armor or encumbrance.
RAI? Probably not. RAW? Sure looks like a dwarf in full plate would have a fly speed of 60ft.
I can see this both ways. I think the ultimate question is does Fly give the target a base fly speed? It doesn't say it specifically. Was this by design that it didn't use flying base speed or an oversight?
It's rather obvious the spell specifically states it gives a fly speed of 60, 40 if wearing medium armor, or carrying medium encumbrance. It gives no distinction to size or race. The Dwarven ability only refers to base land speed.
Because if you're really going to argue fiddly bit logic as Raving Dork would say than the result would be that Dwarves use the fly speed of 40 at all times.
I don't know, the rule is that their speed is never modified by armor or encumbrance. The reason it's not spelled out that it does or does not work that way for dwarves is because they are, I believe, one of the only options that grant that particular ability out of literally hundreds upon hundreds of creatures. Certainly the number with that racial ability doesn't number more than a dozen.
Their base land speed is never modified by armor or encumbrance. That means diddly squat to other movement modes. Keep also in mind that their base land speed is 20. So if you want to argue that way, it means that their speed using the fly spell is always 40.
I find it highly unlikely that the developers intended for burrowing creatures to be swift flyers, but I personally would probably house rule to allow it in one of my games, just because it amuses me.
The spell specifically says it's speed is set based on armor worn, which means it's a specific exception to all other rules about setting speed.
If the dwarf had naturally gained flight, such as from Dragon Disciple for example, then I agree he would not get reductions for encumbrance using it, as his racial ability would kick in.
If the dwarf had gained a flight speed from a different source, that didn't limit it explicitly, then I agree, his racial ability would kick in.
The spell does what it says it does, it grants him a fly speed based on his encumbrance.
By the same token, giving him a climb or swim speed would also, unless explicitly calling out how it works with armor, not get reduced.
The only reason it's reduced is the wording of the spell itself. However, if the GM wanted to hand-wave that, I see no reason not to. Flying dwarves are cool.
The PRD says "The subject can fly at a speed of 60 feet (or 40 feet if it wears medium or heavy armor, or if it carries a medium or heavy load)."
Note "Can fly at a speed", it does not state it gives a fly speed!
So a dwarf in medium or heavy armor can fly at a speed of 40 feet with this spell.