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Holy s~@!. Doug's coming to Texas!No no no. He's coming to Indy and it's not even GenCon! :)
And Bob. And Kyle. And Thea. And Todd! w00t!
It's a mini-reunion.... we seem to be having lots of those since Origins lol ... I can't wait .. time off is in the bag and now it's just the waiting process (did I mention I dislike waiting?)
Besides it'll be a chance to celebrate my B'day.. I'll be ummmmmmmm 25 again.. that's it 25
One of my gaming friends celebrated the 10 year anniversary of his 30th birthday two weeks ago. I thought it was very ingenious of him.
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Besides it'll be a chance to celebrate my B'day.. I'll be ummmmmmmm 25 again.. that's it 25You turn 25 this year too? Awesome, me too! :P
OMG I knooooooooow right .. it's a amazing I've kept my cute looks this long ... I hate to think of what will happen when I'm older... wait ... I'm not getting older ... yayyyyy!!!!!!!
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OMG I knooooooooow right .. it's a amazing I've kept my cute looks this long ... I hate to think of what will happen when I'm older... wait ... I'm not getting older ... yayyyyy!!!!!!!Besides it'll be a chance to celebrate my B'day.. I'll be ummmmmmmm 25 again.. that's it 25You turn 25 this year too? Awesome, me too! :P
Ummmm... perhaps people should distrust Theamath.
She placed me at 35. That is pretty close to the time I've been GMing.
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OMG I knooooooooow right .. it's a amazing I've kept my cute looks this long ... I hate to think of what will happen when I'm older... wait ... I'm not getting older ... yayyyyy!!!!!!!Besides it'll be a chance to celebrate my B'day.. I'll be ummmmmmmm 25 again.. that's it 25You turn 25 this year too? Awesome, me too! :PUmmmm... perhaps people should distrust Theamath.
She placed me at 35. That is pretty close to the time I've been GMing.
It's all that good Canadian air there Neil ... it makes you look younger :D
And what's wrong with my math .. I like my math .. it takes off at least 9 years hehe.
Some of my players were freaked out last weekend when my wife mentioned that I had never lived in the 70's. :)
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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once again, do you have to flog the game store owner?
Your suggestions didn't work for him and he is giving his feedback to Paizo.
You've already passed judgment on Ben, why would he listen to you now?
I tried to stay away. I really did. But when something like that is put in front of me, I have no choice except to wade in.
Besides, I'm a store owner, too. What is bothering me about this whole thread is the fact that he's using that position in an effort to lend more weight to his "feedback" to Paizo. I know of a lot of stores that don't have this problem. Because of that, they don't feel the need to invoke their position as a store owner and offer Paizo their feedback. I don't want what they're not saying to be drowned out by his repeated outcries for help - help that he doesn't accept.
I'm sure he'll be along, again, with some very well-mannered, well-written thoughts (well, maybe not well-mannered toward me). But if he keeps doing the same thing, I will continue to direct him to his own statements. Hypocrisy always gets my back up.
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Knowledge of PFS and organizational ability do not necessarily go hand-in-hand with writing ability, Northron. I wish that they did :)
More 1st-level adventures would certainly help. And in many ways, the biggest swing factor in the low-level scenarios is between starting characters and 2nd level.
The other reason to increase "the base of the pyramid" is character death. This is the one area that has most caused replay in my FLGS.
EDIT: Partly ninja'ed by Slanky.
I guess that is true. Just shows the unwavering faith I have in our VC corp. ;)
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I’m really glad to hear about the “Organization” of the modules and the new first level scenarios that were commissioned. I think it will go a ways to dealing with some of the issues raised here.
Also glad to see a well-timed thread jack. ;) I can’t say the cool, clean Canadian air has done me any harm. Why, I’m 41 and I don’t look a day over 40!
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I’m really glad to hear about the “Organization” of the modules and the new first level scenarios that were commissioned. I think it will go a ways to dealing with some of the issues raised here.
Agreed. As stated earlier, it seems the issue isn't so much replay as it is the rate the current offerings are being consumed. This will help and hopefully not take too much time away from Hyrum/Mark.
But when something like that is put in front of me, I have no choice except to wade in.
Looks like this thread's dead, but I'll add in a "That was a good post, Drogon. We're all glad you dispelled the illusion created by the OP."
-Matt
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For me neither way has gained me GM's but I agree with odds are replay would make it harder. People for the most part have to want to GM.One advantage of the replay rule is it's a great way to encourage people to step into the GM's seat. Our one big replay issue player was having issues and I suggested he GM a few scenarios he's played before and he is seriously considering stepping up to the plate.Replay isn't really putting people into the GM seat in my area. I've managed to convice people to do the GMing, but thier not in it for the credit. One thing that will cause fewer GMs to show up though is less players at thier tables.
It may be it's circumstantial for our group. We only have one or two players who play a lot and a GM who GMs alot. If the really active player were to spend 2-3 weeks GMing it would almost completely relieve our issues and allow everyone to continue progressing.
I want good GM's but I need to accept some player are just not GM material.
I agree, but how do you know if a given player is going to be a good GM or not unless they take a chance in the seat? I am willing to risk a session or two with a mediocre GM to give it a shot.
Venture-Agent, Virginia—Hampton Roads
aka Darius Silverbolt
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I agree, but how do you know if a given player is going to be a good GM or not unless they take a chance in the seat? I am willing to risk a session or two with a mediocre GM to give it a shot.
I have let various GM's give it a shot(s) and two of of them I would say just didn't cut the muster. I don't mind letting people try. I have other players (some I have know for years) who just should not GM.
I know that sounds harsh but it is true. Either struggles with math or never comes prepared, never shows up on time, or just doesn't know enough of the game outside his one class.
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Darius - That is true, some people just are not comfortable or good behind the shield. It is a double edged sword. Nobody wants to play in a game with a bad GM, and yet a GM will never get good without practice. I would recommend that each person who wants to GM do a couple of things if they are new. Be open to constructive feedback from other GMs and players, and buy the GM Guide and read it ten times. In the end, they will be fine.
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Darius - That is true, some people just are not comfortable or good behind the shield. It is a double edged sword. Nobody wants to play in a game with a bad GM, and yet a GM will never get good without practice. I would recommend that each person who wants to GM do a couple of things if they are new. Be open to constructive feedback from other GMs and players, and buy the GM Guide and read it ten times. In the end, they will be fine.
I agree -- I'm still a relatively new GM and whenever I'm done with a table as I'm handing out the chronicles I actively ask for feedback -- what could I have done differently to make it more enjoyable? Was there a part that I didn't explain well enough? that kind of thing. I feel that it helps me know where my weak areas are and it let's the players know that I am trying to improve myself so that I can be a better GM and make the game time more enjoyable for myself as well as the player.
I tend to do an exorbiant amount of prep work -- I have notecards for all the monsters separated out by tier with the pertient information fromt he stat block -- tho I can always reference the full stat block if needed, I write out poison and trap information so I have it in front of me, I have pertinent DCs and what not highlighted in the mod so that I can pick them out quickly and I'm not spending time (hopefully) looking thru the mod. To me; it's what I expect of me as a GM to be prepared. Of course I'm also slightly obsessive compulsive and somewhat retentive lol.
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You know, I just realized why making this decision separate from a new OP Guide works in Paizo's favor. This way, with the release of such an obviously controversial rule, they can see how it affects the business end of things, both in mods sold and mods reported. If this was a release with the guide then you couldn't tell exactly which update was affecting the #s.
Don't know if they planned it this way, but it's fairly smart.
I would still rather have the official updates in the OP Guide, but this I can live with.
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Venture-Captain, Texas—San Antonio
aka Dragnmoon
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I Approve this Thread jack! Except for the part Doug calls my wife a Bag! I think I will bring her to the Con, tell her you said that and point you out to her..;)."No ma'am! I didn't say 'bag', certainly not! I said Baggins, like a hobbit--you know, the charming and lovable characters in that movie about the magic ring. 'Baggins', I said. It's a high compliment in the gaming community. Yes, ma'am!" [cringe][duck]
Shall I stop digging the hole or just keep going for improved cover?
I was just about to register for one of you games, But you are running something I already Played!!!
Are you only going to be down for 1 day?
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Venture-Agent, Virginia—Hampton Roads
aka Darius Silverbolt
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Darius - That is true, some people just are not comfortable or good behind the shield. It is a double edged sword. Nobody wants to play in a game with a bad GM, and yet a GM will never get good without practice. I would recommend that each person who wants to GM do a couple of things if they are new. Be open to constructive feedback from other GMs and players, and buy the GM Guide and read it ten times. In the end, they will be fine.
^ This is exactly what I do ;-)
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I agree, but how do you know if a given player is going to be a good GM or not unless they take a chance in the seat? I am willing to risk a session or two with a mediocre GM to give it a shot.I have let various GM's give it a shot(s) and two of of them I would say just didn't cut the muster. I don't mind letting people try. I have other players (some I have know for years) who just should not GM.
I know that sounds harsh but it is true. Either struggles with math or never comes prepared, never shows up on time, or just doesn't know enough of the game outside his one class.
I don't disagree and wouldn't suggest putting someone like that take the GMs seat.
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Venture-Captain, Texas—San Antonio
aka Dragnmoon
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That's OK, I registered for something you're running so we'll get to share a table. I'm there for Sat/Sun, running a table of the Special too.
I was just about to register for one of your games, But you are running something I already Played!!!Are you only going to be down for 1 day?
Cool!
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Venture-Captain, Missouri—Cape Girardeau
aka Arnim Thayer
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For those of you who followed the rules in my thread previous to its lock down (a simple +1 or -1), I say thank you for your participation. For those of you who worked to derail it, as you have the other threads, shame on you... especially if you hold the title of Venture-Captain.
@Hyreum: I do understand this issue is not a vote. I was hoping for a clear, and concise showing of community sentiment without having to wade through a dozen derails and berating at posters with an opposing opinion.
Previously, this has been the forum for such healthy debate. Lately, it more resembles the WotC boards, with elitist opinions telling others they don't understand or are not doing enough. A quick reminder: this is a volunteer position (being a GM). When it stops being fun, whether from an overabundance of rules or a lack of help/support from the parent company (or Venture-Captains), people stop volunteering... even if they love the game. When it becomes a job without compensation, well my time is valuable. Not saying I'm going to stop running PFS just yet, my local players deserve better than that. But, like our government, I represent the voices of my constitutes. And I'm just trying to see if others share the same voice.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Here's an odd question: outside of PFS, I'm accustomed to the practice of "co-DMing", where two GMs share the duties. For example, one runs the opponents during the battle, and the other acts as the impartial referee. Or they help differentiate different NPCs the player characers might encounter.
(Incidentally, we've found it to be great training grounds for fledgling GMs.)
How would that get listed, if we did that in PFS OP?
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Venture-Agent, Virginia—Hampton Roads
aka Darius Silverbolt
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Here's an odd question: outside of PFS, I'm accustomed to the practice of "co-DMing", where two GMs share the duties. For example, one runs the opponents during the battle, and the other acts as the impartial referee. Or they help differentiate different NPCs the player characers might encounter.
(Incidentally, we've found it to be great training grounds for fledgling GMs.)
How would that get listed, if we did that in PFS OP?
I have used a CO-GM in my non PFS games due to having 10+ players in my Age of worms campaign and I needed help. Lords knows it helped a lot but in PFS I think 1 game should = 1 GM credit.
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Previously, this has been the forum for such healthy debate. Lately, it more resembles the WotC boards, with elitist opinions telling others they don't understand or are not doing enough.
Arnim,
This is FAR from WotC's boards... People are a lot more respectful in the tone and content of their posts. With 3 threads about the same thing. Its not dictatorial to close one, it just keeps the debate focused.
There are some things that are not up for debate. Try to sell me why you should play an evil character in a home game OR getting my wife to DM - you can plead, beg, bribe or cry, its just not gonna happen. Changing the replay rule is one of them.
When it stops being fun, whether from an overabundance of rules or a lack of help/support from the parent company (or Venture-Captains)
PFS is the most rules-light OP campaign I have played in (LG, LDS, LA, LFR mostly), and the most open to community input (which says nothing about the others).
In addition to helping players in my local area (Denver), I see myself as an adviser and helper to Mark & Hyrum. I send them a bunch of ideas and hope a few will stick (granted many aren't great). If you need something to organize or run a game day, I doubt your VC will refuse you. But championing a cause that has been very clearly closed is not something many of us will do. VCs recommend, comment, offer ideas (just like you do) and give a view from the trenches to Hyrum & Mark to help them improve the campaign. But at the end of the day, we play within the rules of the campaign. Some rules we like, some we like less (no, I won't say which one I like less).
Finally, keep offering ideas and suggestions on other topics/ aspect of the game. Your posts and arguments are often well thought out, logical and respectful all of which add credence to them. One "no" doesn't mean anything other than a "no".
I *ASSURE* you the powers that be are listening and taking notes (plus they have us VCs pointing them towards anything they might miss). The fact that Hyrum himself stepped in to close the thread should tell you that they are watching. (yes, put on your foil cap, I have mine) :P
JP
ps: if you want to talk some more about this, don't hesitate to email me.
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Venture-Captain, Missouri—Cape Girardeau
aka Arnim Thayer
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@ JP Chapleau: I appreciate the polite tone of your response. My Opinion Poll post was just that, a hopes for the general feel of the community. Since it was derailed and then closed, it feels that the public's opinion is not deemed important on this matter anymore. The decision has been made and that is final.
I realized that other threads existed for this subject. One has an occasional re-cap done by Elyas to help keep people up to date (much appreciation) on the tone of the subject. Lately, both threads have been derailed by those with the strongest opposing voices(almost like a filibuster attempt), making the point of those threads lost amongst rambling diatribes from others... much like I saw on the WotC boards before leaving them permanently.
I truly love the game. I want to see the PFS community grow. Ignoring the voice of a perceived minority before finding out if they ARE the minority does not seem the way for this to happen. Everyone's opinion matters to a degree. If store owners see a drop in Paizo sales or lack of interest in the PFS organized play, then they will lower there stock space for those products accordingly, and making it harder to find those items outside of the company's web-store. Without a presence in those stores, how do people even know the product exists? These are the "big-picture, long-term" things I see, and become concerned with. At our FLGS, Paizo product almost out sells D&D, mostly based on PFS play. It holds the best product placement spot in that store, right as you come in the door. Without PFS support, that would never have happened. And now the PFS play has taken a dip in participation, that could change.
I appreciate real debate. But things like "you aren't doing enough to promote it" is not debate. It is a tyrannical statement (IMO) that takes nothing into consideration except "your (the speaker's)" opinion.
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As the owner of the FLGS that Arnim was speaking of, Pathfinder does outsell D&D products. Thanks in large part to the efforts of my Venture Captains. This is the title I gave to the volunteer GM's here in my store. This title was given before Paizo made it an appointed volunteer position. Arnim is responsible for the success of PFS here in my store. As far as I'm concerned anyone who says he's not doing enough is a little left of center. Okay...a huge step left of center.
So to all my Venture Captains 'HUZZAH' thank you for all your efforts.
Now on to the replay topic. The player receives a piece of paper with some on ink on it and hopefully four hours of fun. Who does this hurt besides the trees? Not me. Don't think it hurts Paizo. They have made their ruling and I have dealt with it here in my store. When and if it changes again...I'll deal with it again. That's it. Has attendance dropped off since the change? Yup. Will it pick up again? Hope so. This is something we are working towards with special events. So to those who are helping Paizo refine the system, thank you. To those who are just ripping on the system and others. Jog on.
The whole point of the system is to make the game as level a playing field as possible so when people go from one shop to the next or from a shop to a con they are on even terms with everyone there. Replaying is significantly less risky and it's easier to grab faction missions... it's just flat out easier than playing for the first time.
Replay means you lose that level playing field.
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For those of you who followed the rules in my thread previous to its lock down (a simple +1 or -1), I say thank you for your participation. For those of you who worked to derail it, as you have the other threads, shame on you... especially if you hold the title of Venture-Captain.
Whoa-whoa-whoa. Who are you to dictate what's "right" or "wrong" in a thread? Hyrum shut down that thread himself for one simple reason...you started up what is literally the third thread on the same topic. Just because you want it one way doesn't mean you have to get on a high-horse when others don't follow your "rules". Additionally no VCs posted any kind of commentary, positive or negative, so to imply here that somehow they are at fault is nothing more than a lie.
@Hyreum: I do understand this issue is not a vote. I was hoping for a clear, and concise showing of community sentiment without having to wade through a dozen derails and berating at posters with an opposing opinion.
Interestingly, if you look at the numbers, it was overwhelmingly "no" with a total vote of -16. You know what probably meant? Bupkis. That's the absolute worst part about the other thread and why it makes no sense as a vote. Not only did it waste space, it meant zero as it can hardly be called a scientific survey. It didn't give Hyrum any real insight other than that of the handful of people that post on these forums and continued what is essentially a moot argument at this point.
Previously, this has been the forum for such healthy debate. Lately, it more resembles the WotC boards, with elitist opinions telling others they don't understand or are not doing enough. A quick reminder: this is a volunteer position (being a GM). When it stops being fun, whether from an overabundance of rules or a lack of help/support from the parent company (or Venture-Captains), people stop volunteering... even if they love the game. When it becomes a job without compensation, well my time is valuable. Not saying I'm going to stop running PFS just yet, my local players deserve better than that. But, like our government, I represent the voices of my constitutes. And I'm just trying to see if others share the same voice.
The Paizo forums are a far cry from the WotC boards, although posts such as your own make me wonder. To make the implication that those that disagree with you are "elitist" and then comparing those same individuals to a group most consider over-the-top is plainly offensive. You are ignoring the fact that both sides have just as vehement opinions and both sides are presenting the same kinds of arguments...over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. At this point the argument serves no purpose and if anybody is to blame of creating a hostile environment (which I do not believe is the case), its both sides, of which your vitriolic post didn't help.
a total vote of -16.
I fail to see how you got such a round number. Clearly we deserve a higher degree of precision Slankster.
Back to our regularly scheduled thread jack:
I heard that in the 70's, if a group actually used miniatures, they were made out of lead. Lead of all things! It's no wonder folks like Neil and Bob can't remember where their keys are.
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a total vote of -16.I fail to see how you got such a round number. Clearly we deserve a higher degree of accuracy Slankster.
Back to our regularly scheduled thread jack:
I heard that in the 70's, if a group actually used miniatures, they were made out of lead. Lead of all things! It's no wonder folks like Neil and Bob can't remember where their keys are.
zomg that explains so much .. Bob definately needs a clapper to find his keys since he's like ancient and stuff (remember I'm only 24 atm) lol
Hey everyone,
As was said, I locked the thread because it was the 3rd similar thread and while I appreciate the idea of a poll, it's hard to get any kind of useful information from a poll of that kind. (And I hope that sentence doesn't come across as harsh, it isn't, it's just an observation.)
As for the entire replay issue, I think we're nearing the end of useful debate and it's turning into a snipefest, something I definitely want to avoid. I'm going to keep monitoring this thread but may lock it if the sniping continues. I appreciate all of the work people put into PFS, be they hardcore coordinators running multiple events a week, or players who dip their toe into PFS every blue moon. We need all types to make the Society successful.
Hyrum.
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Venture-Captain, Missouri—Cape Girardeau
aka Arnim Thayer
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A quick re-cap.
Whoa-whoa-whoa. Who are you to dictate what's "right" or "wrong" in a thread?
Maybe the word "rules" was a little strong; how about "request"? Some did this, others not so much. I appreciate the ones that did.
Interestingly, if you look at the numbers, it was overwhelmingly "no" with a total vote of -16.
And just as interestingly, most of those "-1" votes came from Venture-Captains. Some of them have posted their reasons politely in the afore-mentioned threads; again, some not so much.
To make the implication that those that disagree with you are "elitist" and etc.
Quite a few constant posters on these boards have given the impression that their opinion matters more than any others. To me, that is Elitism.
Listen, the one thing I agree with is that this argument is pointless. The ruling has been made, and I will deal with it as it is. If that proves to be what drives PFS and Paizo sales out of our FLGS, so be it. In smaller communities/regions, Replay was a tool that helped to bring in new players with enthusiastic veterans. At our FLGS, we have adjusted to allow for how replay works now, so as to not deter our loyal base. Hopefully, our current downward attendance trend is just a burp along the way.
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Venture-Captain, Missouri—Cape Girardeau
aka Arnim Thayer
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As was said, I locked the thread because it was the 3rd similar thread and while I appreciate the idea of a poll, it's hard to get any kind of useful information from a poll of that kind. (And I hope that sentence doesn't come across as harsh, it isn't, it's just an observation.)
And all of that is true... it only takes into consideration those players who have access to the forums, a need to post, and have a strong opinion. In that, I agree. Thanks for at least appreciating what I was attempting with that thread... limited as it was going to be.
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Venture-Captain, Missouri—Cape Girardeau
aka Arnim Thayer
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I heard that in the 70's, if a group actually used miniatures, they were made out of lead. Lead of all things! It's no wonder folks like Neil and Bob can't remember where their keys are.
You weren't supposed to LICK the miniatures! I never did. And that's why I can still find my keys!
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For those of you who followed the rules in my thread previous to its lock down (a simple +1 or -1), I say thank you for your participation. For those of you who worked to derail it, as you have the other threads, shame on you... especially if you hold the title of Venture-Captain.
+1
There does seem to be a whole lot of smug going around, and a fair proportion of it seems to be coming from those with the Venture-Captain tag.
As these people are posting and acting with Paizo's imprimatur, they are implied (if not in fact) representatives of Paizo.
One would hope that they might turn down the smug, and listen a little more to the concerns of lowly players and store owners.
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic
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There does seem to be a whole lot of smug going around, and a fair proportion of it seems to be coming from those with the Venture-Captain tag.
Don't forget: Venture captains don't only have the tag, they also write under their own names, as they don't have an alias to hide behind, so they probably say what they mean.
And you can even mail the person in question if you want to tell a VC something off the boards.
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderS ociety/general/announcementPATHFINDERSOCIETYNAMESREGIONALCOORDINATORS
http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lbk1
