I can only guess that this has been discussed before:
The scenaro:
A player builds a character (using a point buy system) nuking INT, WIS, or Both to buff his more number affecting or physical skills, then proceeds to play the characters at his own intellegence rather than the intellegence of the character?
Obviously there are some stat penalties associated with low INT and WIS scores, but they do not seem as penalizing in the majority of games. This is partley because most games use combat as a primary ecounter type, but also as I see it, encounters that are intellectual are generally done outside of PC stats and dice rolls, meaning it is more often the player and not the PCs intellegence which is tested.
One option of course is to not allow scores below 10, but I am curious if others have encountered this, find it is a problem, or use other methods to add in flavor that can come with a really dumb characters into the game?
((It has been my experiance that majority of players do not play down to their characters intellegence/wisdom, though the few I have seen make for some great RPG scenes))
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I have not really seen this issue for the most part since my group always discusses (in character) their strategies ahead of time, and the "smart" one will occasional shout out corrective orders mid-combat.
I would probably either make players do the above for the character (forcing them to make a DC5 int/wis check to try a different "smarter" strategy on their own). That is, if I saw the issue at my table.
Luckily at my current table no-one has less than a 12 on the max(int,wis) function :P (Heck, 2 have a 22 currently).
I've not had a problem with it either. All the players I've seen who have a low int play it pretty well. Plus I give good enough points that you don't have to have a "dump" stat unless you actually want one.
If it did become a problem I'd sit down with the player outside the game and discuss it. I'd make it clear they actually have to play their stats or rewrite the character to make it more accurate. It's a question of how they are actually playing the character so it has to be handled delicately and carefully.
I can only guess that this has been discussed before:
The scenaro:
A player builds a character (using a point buy system) nuking INT, WIS, or Both to buff his more number affecting or physical skills, then proceeds to play the characters at his own intellegence rather than the intellegence of the character?Obviously there are some stat penalties associated with low INT and WIS scores, but they do not seem as penalizing in the majority of games. This is partley because most games use combat as a primary ecounter type, but also as I see it, encounters that are intellectual are generally done outside of PC stats and dice rolls, meaning it is more often the player and not the PCs intellegence which is tested.
One option of course is to not allow scores below 10, but I am curious if others have encountered this, find it is a problem, or use other methods to add in flavor that can come with a really dumb characters into the game?
((It has been my experiance that majority of players do not play down to their characters intellegence/wisdom, though the few I have seen make for some great RPG scenes))
It happens. The mental skills are the ones that we have to roleplay, and characters will rarely have the same stats as the player (often, that is the entire point). A player should at least try, but it's entirely possible that the player is as far from his character's Int or Wis as the character is from a baboon, and he just can't begin to imagine what living with that stat is like. Same with Cha. We've all seen - or (me!) starred in - a painful scene where a player with poor social skills is attempting to roleplay a Cha 18 character interacting with an important NPC, and often getting penalized on the Diplomacy roll based on how well they RP'd. All you can do is try, and get some gentle hints from the GM when they are badly out of bounds. And maybe avoid puzzle dungeons if the Int 19 player is running an Int 10 character.
I think this ´´problem´´ is less common than the other way around,
players whose ´´INT/WIS´´ can`t match their PC`s abilities in that area.
And particularly with Full Casters who max those stats (enhancements, etc), NO REAL PERSON (including the GM) could even hope to pretend to know what super Intelligence/Wisdom (or Charisma) really means or plays out like.
The best situation for both cases is having Ability Checks to figure out something useful.
In the cases of low-INT/WIS PC, Ability Check to use ideas that may be obvious to the player`s own normal/higher INT/WIS, but not the PC. For the other case, to realize things that the player may not, but the character should. (This goes hand in hand with Knowledge checks). Of course, if players ARE handling RP`ing lower mental stat characters just fine, then you don`t really need to mess with something that works.
I feel I`ve successfully roleplayed lower-INT (not DUMPED, but low-ish) Barbarian types, and how I`ve done is not necessarily thinking of STUPID things to do (again, INT wasn`t dumped) but thinking what is the personality traits of this PC, and situations where they might just lean towards that personality trait rather than logical calculation, i.e. trying to take on bigger threats than we were capable of, etc... (not EVERY bigger threat, but just depending on the situation) Said character actually had OK mental stats (at least +1 to WIS, I can`t remember if 0 or +1 to INT) but I tended to rationalize my RP`ing as said character ALSO had immensely greater actual combat experience than me personally, so generally speaking was pretty good within that sphere, but also had `blinders` which could crop up (even within combats). If that makes sense...
Another consider you might make is that it's relatively easy to look at a 3 INT or a 20 INT and say he's dumb as a brick or a genius, respectively. But, what does a 9 INT really look like? How about a 7? When does someone go from being average to banal? When does he become a fool? At a 6 WIS? What's the difference between an 8 CHA and a 7?
And there's no sense arguing over those questions, because no one really knows. They are a relative scale, not an actual measurement. And for this reason, you may think he's not being dumb enough, and he may think he's being plenty stupid; you each have a different idea of what a low INT means.
So to what Quandary said, if you can't reach resolution after talking about it, I highly recommend that you simply recognize the disparity between player and character, and resort to LOTS more dicing for the result.
One thing I've done in the past that might help as an analogy: a brilliant player of mine playing a fairly average-INT character (11, I think), decided to "invent" wind-powered generators, build a bunch of them and power a whole town (thus becoming rich...). He was also pretty good at role-playing, so his idea was to just talk it through with some intelligent NPCs (sages, wizards, engineers, etc) to get it done. I argued that his PC couldn't have invented the electric generator (never mind aerodynamic propellers, which are needed to get enough speed). He was going on his own intelligence and role-playing skills (very valuable assets), but it was simply out of character. I told him he would have to make a series of Knowledge (engineering) checks himself just to think up the idea, let alone describing the plan to someone else. Well, he didn't have any ranks in Know (eng), so the plan failed immediately, and his INT wasn't high enough to make the DC (which I set at 30).
Point? If you come to agreement with your player, then all's well. If you don't, devise a system that will regulate his OOC moments (Diplomacy checks, memory checks, Knowledge checks, etc). If his INT is ridiculously low (3-4), make him write down THE list of words he knows and bar the player from speaking any others. {did that once, too}
Good luck!
I played a homebrew Half Troll/orc fighter with really low Int/Wis.
He was a lot of fun to play but he could be dominated by a stop sign.
That low will save was a killer at mid level.
He was a lot of fun to play but he could be dominated by a stop sign.
Best. Quote. Ever.
He was a lot of fun to play but he could be dominated by a stop sign.Best. Quote. Ever.
+1
--------------------I have had this issue using the "dumb" character in the past. As a player I enjoy puzzles, it never fails when I'm playing a barbarian we run into tons of them. A few times it has boiled down to me having to figure out a way to convey my answers in RP, because the other players were not figuring the puzzle out.
Drawing in the dirt or tracing the 'puzzle' with your finger as though to manually work the problem out rather than looking like the 'caveman' just suddenly got brilliant. Being disruptive (in-character) when another player gives an answer, be it correct or incorrect, like a game of charades is also a way to go about it, again RP'ing it out.
I can only guess that this has been discussed before:
((It has been my experiance that majority of players do not play down to their characters intellegence/wisdom, though the few I have seen make for some great RPG scenes))
Really? Huh.
I'm currently playing an oracle with a moderately high Int (and an astronomical Cha, but I digress). Sometimes, because I'm a player and have lots of smarts, including a good sense of plot devices and so forth, I have a moment of inspiration and a great idea occurs to me. So, I ask myself, does my oracle figure the same thing out?
To find out, I have myself roll an Int check. If I roll well (DC 10 for fairly easy stuff, 15 for moderately difficult, and 20 if there's no way I should have figured this out) and pass the DC, then my oracle has a similar realization and I relate my idea to the group.
If I fail, I might jot the idea down as a note to myself, but my poor oracle remains clueless (or, if I roll particularly badly, decides that the exact opposite is true and proceeds accordingly). This actually resulted in a halarious moment (for me anyway) when I rolled badly, proposed the craziest idea I could think of to explain events... and it turned out I was right (my silly idea, not my actual idea). Fun times.
I do something similar with Wis checks (less good than my int) for those moments when I come up with a plan that is exceptionally unsafe (my oracle is rather... impulsive) to see if I run off and try it or think again and try something less suicidal. Those I fail much more often. I think my dice are conspiring against me.
Anyway, I was just surprised that someone was having trouble with players being too smart.
Ha, this character is in this situation now. (except int and cha, instead of int and wis)
My biggest tiff for players playing stupid characters is when they play them like they are crazy, or they act the stupidity out to a level that it is a constant annoyance and play their character like this old class. Just because your int is 7-9 doesn't mean you have to play a lunatic.
For example, I'm planing on playing this character in a forest gump like fashion.
This reminds me of a 2nd edition item called the "40-watt helm of brilliance" (or something to that effect). It was a helmet taht had a strange glass tube on top with some wires in it. It would only work for a character of intelligence 6 or less. If the party spent too much time figuring something out the GM would make a secret check. If the check succeeded the glass tube would light up and the idiot wearing it would come up with the answer.
I often play characters with at least one decent mental stat simply because I don't like having an idea my character wouldn't have thought of. I'd feel frustrated if I held myself back and like cheating if I didn't.
And then, sometimes, your player provides all the stupidity you could ever want...
Even if you've read this real-life account before, it's worth another laugh.
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Just let them be, let the mechanics deal. A low-int low-wis character doesn't have to be played like a moron, and can give ideas and talk to the group. But they'll have very few skills, no chance to absorb details of the world around them, and will succumb to charm effects easily. A low-Cha may talk well, but nPCs will inexplicably find them "creepy".
It just gets too involved if you start trying to block them from cobtributing ideas or solving puzzles. We had this conversation in reverse some time ago.... You don't want to "hint" too much to the high int played by not as smart gamers (leads to railroading); nor do you change the word of the "socially awkward person" playing the 22 cha bard... You just have the NPCs take it in the best possible light.
In the end, the bottom line is don't try to inflict your moral anti-minmax values to make things more complicated; nobody will appreciate it, even the "casuals".
Just for 2 coppers, this: I brought a group of friends to play, and one of them had one of those "smashing" barbarians. When I made the map of the countryside, I made a different one for each of them. For the druid, I outlined unusual natural features she (the character) might have known. For the barbarian, I named the towns "little town", "big town", and "really big town" instead of their real names. It was fun when they realized that their maps were different, and the player has since then role-played the "dumb" part correctly, while still having fun.
I like that tactic, Louis. As I briefly mentioned above, I had a "smashing barbarian" who literally and officially had a 3 INT (we rolled 4d6--drop low, and he rolled four 1's). Being into drama, he considered it a challenge and accepted the character. But to keep some semblance of verisimilitude, I told him to write down 20 words that his barbarian knew. That was it. He did...wrote his name, "smash" and 17 other common words that he'd probably need to say at some point. He saved the 20th word for something fancy, like "asphyxiation.".
To this day, everyone remembers that stupid brute with a very limited vocabulary. In fact, the player has gone on to play bit parts in a couple of movies, and he's now working on a character that dumb as a brick. His source of inspiration for playing the part? You guessed it...
I like that tactic, Louis. As I briefly mentioned above, I had a "smashing barbarian" who literally and officially had a 3 INT (we rolled 4d6--drop low, and he rolled four 1's). Being into drama, he considered it a challenge and accepted the character. But to keep some semblance of verisimilitude, I told him to write down 20 words that his barbarian knew. That was it. He did...wrote his name, "smash" and 17 other common words that he'd probably need to say at some point. He saved the 20th word for something fancy, like "asphyxiation.".
To this day, everyone remembers that stupid brute with a very limited vocabulary. In fact, the player has gone on to play bit parts in a couple of movies, and he's now working on a character that dumb as a brick. His source of inspiration for playing the part? You guessed it...
Awesome
I had fun with a dumb barbarian for a while as well. He wasn't so bad he had a 20 word vocabulary, but he was fairly bad. He did have a high wisdom though, so I played it that while he didn't have pretty much anything in the way of book smarts, he had good common sense. His often repeated mantra was "Thog dumb, but Thog not that dumb" to the many poor choices the part would make.
Interesting...my player's barbarian was named Krog, and he was always on the search for his lost brother. Could it be?
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I'm actually quite lucky that this happens rarely. I'd recommend getting other players helping you out. A group of players will police themselves.
Example: We're playing a Ravenloft game and are dealing with a Vampire in a town of puritans (the women are found dead, without blood, in a state of bliss). No one knows of "Vampires" in the world and didn't roll high enough on the Knowledge Religion check to find anything out. At one point a player thought he knew and nearly said it out loud in character. Myself and the other player beat the GM to the punch in saying "We don't know what that is. You already rolled Knowledge(Religion) and failed. Now, let's go find the flying monkey that keeps draining women of their blood and leaving them very happy." He realized his mistake and all was good.
Better question: how do you handle a dumb player running a smart PC?
When it's a glaring different I give them an int or wis check to see if I should give them a warning or hint, but you don't want to take it too far as it is their responsibility to play their character. It won't be fun for them if you play it for them, particularly when it's because "they aren't smart enough".
Better question: how do you handle a dumb player running a smart PC?
This situation is actually easy. If the player doesn't know something his PC should, give him a Knowledge check. On a success, the DM simply tells him what he knows. I run something similar for when players forget between game sessions. I'll have them make a fairly simple INT check to remember something I told them weeks ago. The PCs would probably remember it, but not always, and thus the roll. I don't just give it to them, or they'd quickly stop trying to remember. If every fails the roll, then it's forgotten and they have to deal with the consequences of that.
Dumb, new, forgetful, etc. players are easier to handle. It's the shrewd, creative, brainiac players that are much harder to corral when their characters have only average (or worse) mental stats. Keeping them from metagaming is a real chore.
Better question: how do you handle a dumb player running a smart PC?This situation is actually easy. If the player doesn't know something his PC should, give him a Knowledge check. On a success, the DM simply tells him what he knows. I run something similar for when players forget between game sessions. I'll have them make a fairly simple INT check to remember something I told them weeks ago. The PCs would probably remember it, but not always, and thus the roll. I don't just give it to them, or they'd quickly stop trying to remember. If every fails the roll, then it's forgotten and they have to deal with the consequences of that.
I've come to the conclusion over several years that this also works fairly well to help guide "smart" players playing "dumb" characters. As useful tool myself I've started just rolling Int and Wis checks whenever I think my "dumb" character may not be able to actually handle something. Such as for a low Wisdom character looking at a fire. I think "I don't want to put my hand in there to grab the meat that fell off the spit, better find a stick or something". For the character I roll vs his Wisdom (DCs determined same a Knowledge checks mostly). If he passes he goes for a stick, if he fails he just reaches in.
Basically think of things you as a "smart" person would do, roll a stat check. Pass you do the "smart" thing, fail you do a modified "dumb" thing. The lower your ability score the more likely the "dumb" thing is going to happen.
Thus is Rollplaying an aid to Roleplaying. :D
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Better question: how do you handle a dumb player running a smart PC?This situation is actually easy. If the player doesn't know something his PC should, give him a Knowledge check. On a success, the DM simply tells him what he knows. I run something similar for when players forget between game sessions. I'll have them make a fairly simple INT check to remember something I told them weeks ago. The PCs would probably remember it, but not always, and thus the roll. I don't just give it to them, or they'd quickly stop trying to remember. If every fails the roll, then it's forgotten and they have to deal with the consequences of that.I've come to the conclusion over several years that this also works fairly well to help guide "smart" players playing "dumb" characters. As useful tool myself I've started just rolling Int and Wis checks whenever I think my "dumb" character may not be able to actually handle something. Such as for a low Wisdom character looking at a fire. I think "I don't want to put my hand in there to grab the meat that fell off the spit, better find a stick or something". For the character I roll vs his Wisdom (DCs determined same a Knowledge checks mostly). If he passes he goes for a stick, if he fails he just reaches in.
Basically think of things you as a "smart" person would do, roll a stat check. Pass you do the "smart" thing, fail you do a modified "dumb" thing. The lower your ability score the more likely the "dumb" thing is going to happen.
Thus is Rollplaying an aid to Roleplaying. :D
DC 0 - Blindingly Obvious, but a int/wis 7- might still miss it.*
DC 5 - Fairly obvious, most people will get this one.DC 10 - Average. Some people get it, some don't.
DC 15 - Hard. Most people don't catch this.
DC 20 - Impossible. Out of reach of the dimwitted, and extremely difficult for the rest.
*I once had a wis 7 character fail to make the DC0 perception check to notice the party member adjacent to them. The following level I put a rank in perception.
I mean, that's a bit silly... Random commoners know what a vampire is. I'd say it's more like supersticious myth, where they know the basics (sunlight, blood drinkers, undead) and some silly extra (hate garlic, can't cross rivers, repels by crosses).
Note that in the Vampire example provided Modera above, he specifically said that Vampires were NOT known in the world. So no, not silly at all. It's his setting, he can do what he wants with it.
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In a rise of the rune lords game, using a 20 point build, I decided to make Fezzic.
Strength 20 +5
Dexterity 12 +1
Constitution 14 +2
Intelligence 7 -2
Wisdom 12 +1
Charisma 7 -2
20 point buy
Level 1 Barbarian ½ orc
Fast movement- +10 feet
Rage- 6 rounds a day. Enter rage as free action. While in a rage +4 to strength and +4 to constitution and +2 to will saves.
Skills
Climb +9
Profession: ( agriculture,) Farmer: +4
Swim +9 ( he only doggy paddles) ( scratch the swim one too many skills)
Feat: Improved Unarmed strike.
Traits:
Attack: +6 1d3 +5 Damage
This is a first draft of his history. Ill come up with the names in a couple of days.
Fezzic had a relatively normal childhood. He grew up on a farm the youngest of five children. His parents and family are still alive. He was born almost 9 months after an Orc raid in the village and surrounding farmsteads.
The orcs burst into the farmhouse just after Fezzic's older brothers and sisters were hidden in the root cellar. The orcs ravished Fezzic's parents and then decided to carry them off as slaves. They helped themselves to the family livestock. As the orc war band was heading out of the village with their captured slaves and lives talk, a band of rangers happened upon them. The Rangers took the orcs by surprise and were able to kill them with arrow fire.
Luckily Fezzics parents can’t be sure he was the product of the rape. Fezzic looks completely human, except he is much too big and strong. He was raised as part of the family. His uncle was the local sheriff and he would often stop by for dinner at his brother’s home.
Fezzic is 8’6” tall and weights 500 pounds. Her grew up on his parents farm, doing everything from plough, to fishing to planting. He was big and strong enough to shoulder the yoke and drag the plough shear behind him. He could drag the family draft horse around when it was in a bad mood. He was always good with the animals. He loved to fish.
The local rancher’s daughter made friends with him. She found him fishing settled down and began talking. Fezzic listened, caught some fish, prepared it and cooked it for her. She came the next day and the next. Fezzic fished, and she prattled.
Her father began worrying that she was spending too much time with the village idiot, son of one of the small landholders on the periphery of his grazing lands.
He sent a couple of his cow hands to retrieve his daughter with orders to kill Fezzic. They found Fezzic and the girl in their usual place. One of he cowhands dragged her off. She screamed “ no don’t let go your hurting me” Fezzic stood up. He simply said “stop” Un nerved the farm hand hit fezzic on the head with his wooden club. It broke. An angry gash opened up on the side of his head and began bleading. The girl screamed. Fezizic hit the first cowhand and he collapsed. The cow hand threw the girl behind him and he ran at Fezzic with his club raised. He hit Fezzic on the head opening up another gash. Fezic hit him and he crumpled.
About then His uncle the sheriff. He took the rancher’s daugher and then Fezzic aside to get their stories. The girl told the truth. Fezzic could only tell the truth. The sheriff realized thet Fezzic was not guilty of murder, he was merely defending himself, and trying to protect his friend the ranchers daughter. He also knew that her father would take revenge for the death of his men.
The Sheriff took both Fezzic and the girl back to his brother” Fezzic's father’s house and he told them to stay with Fezzic’s mother.
The sheriff then arranged the bodies of the dead cowhands so that they looked like they had been fighting each other. He put all of the gold from one cowhand and put it in the pouch of the other cowhand. He then soaked the bodies in alcohol.
After that he wrote a letter to his old friend Sheriff Hemlock in Sandpoint. He explained what had happened and recommended that Fezzic might make a good constable. Fezzic left his home village.
The Sheriff told The Rancher that he found two of his men. They had killed each other in a drunken brawl the Sheriff said; apparently one had stolen the others gold. The Rancher was satisfied. He had his daughter back. Fezzic was gone. And he didn’t care that his two men were dead. He didn’t want the sheriff to look to closely into the matter, because he had ordered his men to kill the sheriff’s nephew Fezzic. The matter as far as the rancher was concerned was closed.
Fezzic traveled to Sandpoint and presented his letter to Sheriff Hemlock. Sheriff Hemlock was not sure what to do with Fezzic. He decided to put Fezzic on cat duty.
Sheriff hemlock put Fezzic up at the rusty Dragon Inn. At first Amiko was worried about Fezzic eating her out of House and Inn. He seemed to like the music there, and his mere presence at the Rusty Dragon had a calming effect on the other patrons. Fezzic could easily catapult drunken revelers out the windows if they bothered the barmaids and the bards. He didn’t like his music interrupted. All he had to do is stand up.
Fezzic excelled at cat duty. Whenever a resident of Sandpoint needed to get their cat rescued from a tree, Fezzic would retrieve the frightened feline. They seemed to relax and purr in his hands. Usually Fezzic was tall enough to simply pick the cat out of the tree. If the cat had climbed higher up in a sapling Fezzic would simply grab a branch and pull on the branch, bending the tree down so he could then pluck the cat out of the tree. Other times he would bend the trunk of the tree and shake it, knocking the cat out of the tree. Other times he would have to climb up and get the cat.
One day he rescued a very special cat. He rescued Sabyl’s cat. She was the monk the monk who owned the house of blue stones. Sabyl was very pleased that Fezzic rescued her cat from a tree. She decided to train him. He has been able to sit still and meditate. To him its like sitting and fishing. She has begun to teach him how to control his breathing, and how to channel his Chi to temporarily boost his strength and constitution ( rage: I’m changing the fluff) She soon hopes to teach him how to strike instead of smash.
This training has helped him become a better watchman.
Fezzic is looking forward to the swallowtail festival. He is looking forward to the food.
He was allot of fun to play. My character kept forgetting his great axe behind ( everyone had to remind him to bring it with him) Fezzic often wanted to pick up a goblin and swing him by the ankles and smack other goblins with his first goblin. They would often object to this treatment and bite poor Fezzic. I even remembr Fezzic pitching one goblin like a foot ball into one of the furnases in the glass works…. …… good times.
For his second level i took a level of monk, picing up Improved unarmed strke and improved grapple. By third level, and another level of monk, i took Throw anything. good times.
I would say to the wizard " if you send your dancing lights ahead, we will all be dead".
We eventually found beneath Old Stoots cabin, another old thassalonian ruin. We found a temple to Pazzuzu. I knew imeadalty what it was, but Fezzic didnt. One of the other player's character, a rogue, was becoming possesed. I realized it, but i also knew that fezzic would have no way of knowing. I wracked my brains to try and think of something so i sugested that we take the player's rogue out for a walk to the temple of Desnaa, he needed some exorcise.
Luckily it didnt take the party long to figure out the answer fezzic had stumbled upon.
He was allot of fun to play, and for me the biggest challange was trying to separate out, what I the player had figured out, from what I knew Fezzic was very unlikely to figure out.
Oh one last thing, the WIzard, a pathfinder was facinated with Thassalonian ruins. I told him i liked them too. they had excellent stones we could make farm houses with. It drove the wizzard nuts. Good times .Wizzard " you cant just take a rock out from this ruin and put it in the wall of a farm house" "Fezzic fezzic what are you doing? put that rock down! now we are not making a farm house today....No, no, no more rhyming and i mean it!"
good times.
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Then there are the rare moments of a brilliant insight. In a game not too long ago, my character Grinkle was the only member of the party to succeed at a Knowledge: Local check. Grinkle has fallen on his head too many times, and his mental stats are...less than optimal. Still, sometimes it's not how smart someone is, it's what he happens to know (or not know).
Then there are the rare moments of a brilliant insight. In a game not too long ago, my character Grinkle was the only member of the party to succeed at a Knowledge: Local check. Grinkle has fallen on his head too many times, and his mental stats are...less than optimal. Still, sometimes it's not how smart someone is, it's what he happens to know (or not know).
The barbarian I meantioned up thread did somethign like that once. We came to a town and I and another person opted not to enter. Thog didn't like towns. So he asks me to play chess to pass the time (mind you has ranks in some related skill and the highest int in the group). Despite his massive advantage I couldn't roll less than 16 on the d20 and he couldn't roll more than a 5. It seems Thog was some sort of idiot savant at chess.
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The barbarian I meantioned up thread did somethign like that once. We came to a town and I and another person opted not to enter. Thog didn't like towns. So he asks me to play chess to pass the time (mind you has ranks in some related skill and the highest int in the group). Despite his massive advantage I couldn't roll less than 16 on the d20 and he couldn't roll more than a 5. It seems Thog was some sort of idiot savant at chess.
Or maybe he was just letting the Wookie win.