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Fantasy Khmer Empire!
Still alive and thriving at that, possibly hidden away in the jungles almost as much as any lost city of the Mwangi. Complete with its own Angkor Wat, still populated and fully lit up. And equivalents of Asparas and Devatas not only decorating its walls but living right there in the temple city along with the mortal population, perhaps with some asuras sneaking in there as well, possibly having their own place within society as long as they adhere to its rules. Maybe they could show the blending of cultures and civilizations with Vudra, along those lines. Also, nagas(or/and neaks) everywhere! And in the midst of all this fantasticness, all of the inhabitants, from the priests to the farmers, just see it as mundane day-to-day life. Humanoid/non-humanoid population integration seems to be higher there, and indeed part of the empire's strength and very religion is based on that ideal.
And maybe some of the major gods known in the Inner Sea region could fit right into their religion under different names. Desna stands out as a natural fit, I think.
You?
As someone who may very well be teaching English in Korea next year, some of that would be nice :)
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That Minkai wind up being based on the Heian Period or the Muromachi Period instead of the Sengoku Period or Tokugawa Period, as always seems to happen with Japan-inspired fantasy countries. XD
More seriously, I'd like to see something done with Vudra, and more flavor from Vietnam and Korea instead of focusing solely on China and Japan.
Jeremy Puckett
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I would like to see:
- depictions of war or diplomatic measures between the Tien nations, to greater illustrate their differences
- Hwacha!!!! and an opportunity for PC's to use them or have them used against them
- Turtle Boats and an opportunity for them to be involved in combat with the PC's
- Rules for melee-types to gain spell-like Wuxia powers: jump great distances, run up walls. etc.
- New Ki Powers, Ki related magic items and rules regarding Ki. This can include the Wuxia-like powers mentioned above, if non-Monk melee-types are given a way to gain ki powers.
- Rules for Court Intrigue. For example, the PC's need to pass a message to the queen, determine if the general is lying or get the crown prince to change factions. Just like the exploration and mass combat rules from Kingmaker can (and are) being lifted and implemented in our home games, a "social combat" system would be both useful and appropriate to many tales involving the courts of China and Japan.
- Rules for Honor/reputation. This could be part of the "social combat" system, if there is one
- New bloodlines for sorcerers. Tien Dragon? Gaki?
- Cool new mundane items: tea ceremony, Tien games, Kite flying, etc.
Since I am pretty sure the Tian Xia book will be very light on crunch, I want what we have in the Campaign Setting book. 4 pages on each country that make me go I want to run a campaign there. I want a few setting specific prestige classes that are relevant to the area. TX (Ha, Daigle!!) specific equipment, maybe a few new spells or feats. But not a lot. New traits, but I assume those will be in the Player's guide to TX.
Since all of the real rules will be in Ultimate Combat and Ultimate Magic, I only want Tian Xia specific information.
Creative Director
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Since I am pretty sure the Tian Xia book will be very light on crunch, I want what we have in the Campaign Setting book. 4 pages on each country that make me go I want to run a campaign there. I want a few setting specific prestige classes that are relevant to the area. TX (Ha, Daigle!!) specific equipment, maybe a few new spells or feats. But not a lot. New traits, but I assume those will be in the Player's guide to TX.
Since all of the real rules will be in Ultimate Combat and Ultimate Magic, I only want Tian Xia specific information.
The Tian Xia book will have some crunch in it. Its focus will remain exploring the world, but there'll also be some new feats, spells, prestige classes, monsters, magic items, PC races, equipment, and some other stuff as well. More crunch than is in the first version of the Pathfinder Campaign Setting book (but about the same as the upcoming World Guide to the Inner Sea).
The primary reason there's not more crunch in the first edition of the Pathfinder Campaign Setting isn't because we wanted to be crunch-light, but because when that book came out, we weren't sure what game system we'd be using 6 to 12 months after that book got printed. With the revised book (and thus, also with the Tian Xia book), we DO know what rules we're using, and so we'll be able to support the setting better with rules.
The exact split of what elements end up where, between the Tian Xia book, Ultimate Magic, and Ultimate Combat is still being worked out and/or not public knowledge yet.
Since I am pretty sure the Tian Xia book will be very light on crunch, I want what we have in the Campaign Setting book. 4 pages on each country that make me go I want to run a campaign there. I want a few setting specific prestige classes that are relevant to the area. TX (Ha, Daigle!!) specific equipment, maybe a few new spells or feats. But not a lot. New traits, but I assume those will be in the Player's guide to TX.
Since all of the real rules will be in Ultimate Combat and Ultimate Magic, I only want Tian Xia specific information.
The Tian Xia book will have some crunch in it. Its focus will remain exploring the world, but there'll also be some new feats, spells, prestige classes, monsters, magic items, PC races, equipment, and some other stuff as well. More crunch than is in the first version of the Pathfinder Campaign Setting book (but about the same as the upcoming World Guide to the Inner Sea).
The primary reason there's not more crunch in the first edition of the Pathfinder Campaign Setting isn't because we wanted to be crunch-light, but because when that book came out, we weren't sure what game system we'd be using 6 to 12 months after that book got printed. With the revised book (and thus, also with the Tian Xia book), we DO know what rules we're using, and so we'll be able to support the setting better with rules.
The exact split of what elements end up where, between the Tian Xia book, Ultimate Magic, and Ultimate Combat is still being worked out and/or not public knowledge yet.
Just to make sure I explained what I was looking for, I don't want to see say a ninja as prestige class, but a Minkai Dragon Ninja (just making this up) would be perfect. I want to learn about Tian Xia specific information and not have more generic info. Does that make sense?
I want a hot centerfold
One thing I'd like to see is an emphasis on a more non-Western spiritual viewpoint, where spirits and small gods are numerous and everywhere - a big turn away from the Hellanistic pantheons that D&D typically has. Spirits and possession was a huge deal in a lot of pre-modern times Asian countries, such as in Korean shaminism with the interceeding between spirits and mortals, or the willfull possession of spirits to allow them to speak or act to the rest of the world.
I look forward to the races
spirit folk?
One thing I'd like to see is an emphasis on a more non-Western spiritual viewpoint, where spirits and small gods are numerous and everywhere - a big turn away from the Hellanistic pantheons that D&D typically has. Spirits and possession was a huge deal in a lot of pre-modern times Asian countries, such as in Korean shaminism with the interceeding between spirits and mortals, or the willfull possession of spirits to allow them to speak or act to the rest of the world.
+1
And I'd also like to see some more Monk crunch, to include some way to differentiate Monks of different religions and a decent Prestige Class or two.
I look forward to the races
spirit folk?
hmm, my cat eyed and tailed tiefling is often compared to spirit folk. right now her epic quest is to see her samurai-lite paladin back to Tian-Min and restored to his proper title, so any new info on those people could be interesting. maybe i could invest in a hat or comb of disguise to help her pass as one.
I would like to see the Pathfinder version of spirit folk and hengeyokai (this includes kitsune, tanuki, tengu, and many others). I also would like to see numerous ethnic and cultural archetypes for all the classes. I want to see inventions and gunpowder. I want martial arts that are available for all characters, whether through feats, new factions, or a new mechanic. I want lots of new monsters and spells that are specifically tied to the lore and flavor of certain kingdoms in Tian Xia. I want plenty of character traits for all of those kingdoms as well.
I want a bunch of new factions; some of these could even be martial art schools and/or wu-lin societies. I also want to see a mercantile faction from both Golarion and Tian Xia that are trying to maintain monopolies, dominate and secure trade routes and agreements between both continents. I want strong ties to Vudra for trade, religious influence, and philosophies. I want to see plenty of different information about how Golarian, Tian Xia, and Vudra are tied economically, politically, and religiously.
I want to see Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, Hinduism, and Jainism all get respectful fantasy treatments. I want to see how the "little gods" fit into the setting as well. Perhaps they are a lot of various demigods or just powerful dragons, fey, ghosts, or demons trapped with limited influence in certain areas.
I want wind and fire wheels, jian, gwandao, deerhorn knives, naginata, nine ringed dao, and many other weapons. I want to see lots of Asian weapons get a good treatment for Pathfinder use and not just a "treat this as a scimitar and this as a glaive" for all the weapons. Some Asian weapons that look similar to western weapons were actually designed to be used differently than the western one. I hope they all get well researched before getting decided that they should work exactly like "X" weapon that is already in the book. Just to be clear, I am okay with some of them getting that treatment as long as it was researched before deciding that. I am not saying that they should be superior in any way, either. I just want it recognized that many of them are just simply different. For the record, I am fine with a katana represented with a bastard swords stats.
I would like to see:
-Totoro
-Giant city-attacking dinosaurs
Weapons have very little in the way of stats that can be altered to give individual weapons more flavour. I think in order to get what your after your really looking at new combat manoeuvres or feats. Though some special rules for certain weapons would seem appropriate.
Re: special rules for certain weapons - That IS what I am pretty much saying. I am not looking for any new feats or maneuvers created just to make a weapon different, more useful, or more "uber". Just the weapon.
For example, hook swords could do with stats that are different from most weapons, be piercing (1d4) and slashing (1d6) 19-20/x2, and be good at disarming and tripping (perhaps a +2 to each). If it is considered too powerful to make them martial weapons and too weak to make them exotic, then require that you must have the exotic weapon proficiency for them to gain the full bonuses.
The exact split of what elements end up where, between the Tian Xia book, Ultimate Magic, and Ultimate Combat is still being worked out and/or not public knowledge yet.
Hm. I was sort of surprised that the Elemental Magic Schools were going in Ultimate Magic... I suppose the fact that they are 4 Elements vs. 5 Elements may not fit, but then again this isn`t REALLY China and having two simultaneous Elemental Thematic Magic School Systems just seems overkill (as well as confusing). I hope the Elemental Magic Schools are prominently used within Tian in any case.
WANTS:
PANDA REN
Floating Boat Cities
New Drugs / Alchemist Feats / Variants
YAK MEN (or in Casmaron Book? I`m conflicted)
Naga Sorcerors with Humanoid Familiars
Large (or `large build` medium) Yeti as PC race?
Not-Druids who hang out with Unicorns
Clerics who are more differentiated than normal ones,
e.g. sub-classes devoted to certain approaches, while perhaps still retaining domain(s) of one specific diety. Something more distinct instead of Spontaneous Cure/Wound would be somewhere to start. Worshipping DEMI-gods, with lesser power, could be the norm, with the balance of power coming from allegiance to a pantheon/approach (like al-Qadim had three sub-classes corresponding to Chaos/Neutral/Law but amongst those there was huge diversity of allegiance to Gods as well as morality and so forth...) Loss of powers could be linked to this `belief system` AS WELL as the Demi-God (each part`s powers could be lost separately)
No printing press, but magically aided animated movies via projecting reflections of drawn/painted images which are magically flipped over at high speed. and they love big eyes :-)
Fantasy Khmer Empire!
Still alive and thriving at that, possibly hidden away in the jungles almost as much as any lost city of the Mwangi. Complete with its own Angkor Wat, still populated and fully lit up. And equivalents of Asparas and Devatas not only decorating its walls but living right there in the temple city along with the mortal population, perhaps with some asuras sneaking in there as well, possibly having their own place within society as long as they adhere to its rules. Maybe they could show the blending of cultures and civilizations with Vudra, along those lines. Also, nagas(or/and neaks) everywhere! And in the midst of all this fantasticness, all of the inhabitants, from the priests to the farmers, just see it as mundane day-to-day life. Humanoid/non-humanoid population integration seems to be higher there, and indeed part of the empire's strength and very religion is based on that ideal.
And maybe some of the major gods known in the Inner Sea region could fit right into their religion under different names. Desna stands out as a natural fit, I think.
You?
Oh deary me yes. Especially on the nagas; if nothing else, maybe we could get a naga bloodline for sorcerers. Many of the old ruling houses of the SE Asian kingdoms were supposed to be descended from nagas in real world myth.
And of course kitsune of some sort, preferably as a PC race so we can have playful kitsune, lecherous huli jing, and chaotic evil complete monsters like the kumiho.
Info on Xian versions of Korea, Mongolia, and Tibet would be nice too.
No gigantic break between gods of the west and gods of the east. Rather I would love to see the core Golarion gods as defined and worshipped by a distinctly non-Western culture. Still the same gods but perceived, defined and venerated differently, sometimes radically so.
And it makes book-keeping on the population of the Great Beyond much easier if all of a sudden each newly detailed portion of Golarion doesn't have its own totally different pantheon. ;)
One or two nations that aren't at all like the Real World East Asia, much like the Worldwound or the Hold of Belkzen isn't even remotely European.
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No gigantic break between gods of the west and gods of the east. Rather I would love to see the core Golarion gods as defined and worshipped by a distinctly non-Western culture. Still the same gods but perceived, defined and venerated differently, sometimes radically so.
And it makes book-keeping on the population of the Great Beyond much easier if all of a sudden each newly detailed portion of Golarion doesn't have its own totally different pantheon. ;)
One of the things I love to read about is how non-Christian cultures imagine Jesus/God. I'd love to see such approach with Golarion gods in Tian Xia.
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One thing I'd like to see is an emphasis on a more non-Western spiritual viewpoint, where spirits and small gods are numerous and everywhere - a big turn away from the Hellenistic pantheons that D&D typically has. Spirits and possession was a huge deal in a lot of pre-modern times Asian countries, such as in Korean shamanism with the interceding between spirits and mortals, or the willful possession of spirits to allow them to speak or act to the rest of the world.
I think this would be really interesting to see, especially if it featured in Jade Regent as well as the setting book.
Although I would point out that Hellenistic Greek spirituality was very different to Pathfinder's Inner Sea religion and that spirits and small gods were everywhere: ancestor worship, hero worship, household gods, every river, stream, mountain, hill, or particularly interesting tree had its own small gods - half of them got turned into fey by DnD and so have been gradually divorced from notions of spirituality and divinity (nymph, dryad, nereid, etc.)
I think it would be a mistake to try to recreate too much of active modern religion though, that would (almost literally) step on sacred ground. Just as it would be risky business putting Jesus or Allah into a role-playing game, I think including direct analogues to Buddha, Indra, Vishnu etc. would just upset a lot of people. I imagine my last sentence, although it seems innocuous to me, could upset some people and that illustrates the trickiness of the subject.
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I think including direct analogues to Buddha, Indra, Vishnu etc. would just upset a lot of people. I imagine my last sentence, although it seems innocuous to me, could upset some people and that illustrates the trickiness of the subject.
To note one example, having Kali(not an analogue, just Kali) as a flat-out evil deity was one of the bigger religious missteps for D&D. I'm not sure where it originated, but it certainly popped up in Planescape(even if it is my most favoritest campaign setting EVER, that was pretty bad).
Judging by what's been shown on Vudran religious so far though, I don't think Paizo is going to fall into that trap.
I am curous about how animism is going to be portrayed though, or rather how it's going to work. I'm looking at it kind of like the Shoanti totem religions right now as a base to work off of, but it's certainly not the same thing.
I think if you just take on the same old Hellanistic pantheon and drop the animism and spiritualism, you lose a stupidly large chunk of what makes eastern cultures unique from western ones.
Re Kitsune
I've been working on this for a homebrew. I took the Hu Hsian (=pinyin Huxian) in OA 1st ed. and 2nd ed. MMA for OA as a model rather than the flavorless hengeyokai race.
There are some balancing issues. I'm adhering as strictly to folklore as possible which generally depicts foxes as animals -i.e., there is no kitsune race, but rather a fox gets old enough and clever enough and they become a Fey (augmented Magical Beast, shapechanger).
The base ability scores are based on a fox: i.e., -6 Str, +4 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Cha. (a Bakeneko would swap Cha for Int)
The Huxian can cast spells and speak humanoid languages in fox form. There is no automatic hybrid form-- it will require a feat.
The Humanoid form adds +4 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con, and can be any generic humanoid. Specific people requires a ritual/spell. Concentration checks are necessary to retain humanoid form under stress (including combat). They also get some skill bonuses (+4 Perception, +2 Acrobatics) and a few cantrip-level spell-like abilities.
The best matches for a Kitsune/Huxian in legend's capabilities are the Oracle, Bard, or Witch classes.
For the last class I'm considering a rule where the Fox-witch must remain in fox form for 8 hours a day to regain spells and thus making their native form the familiar-- communing with one's essential self.
What would I like to see in Xian Tia? A lot of what's already been discussed.
The short list:
Classes and races that are not auto-superior to the established ones just because they're Asian.
New weapon options.
An Honor system that both stands alone and works with the current alignment system.
New bloodlines.
New mundane items.
New magic items (probably a given).
9-tailed fox-demons. (;-P)
Some of the more powerful Asian spirits/deities presented. Ameratsu, Raiden, et al.
I took a look at my copies of Oriental Adventures, Legend of 5 Rings and various splat books to see what was already out there. Here are some of my opinions and comments.
Classes:
Courtier: Lo5R: Bard-like non-caster: I like this concept, sort of a non-psionic/non-caster manipulator of opponents, but I'm not sure of it's usefulness in a normal adventuring party.
Inkyo: Lo5R: monk with non-lawful options: This dos not need to be a separate class, instead, I'd rather see it as a Cavalier-like order within the Monk base class.In fact, I'd love to see the monk expanded with orders in that fashion.
Ninja: Lo5R: CAdventurer: rogue/monk with Ki powers: I like this concept and would love a class based on it. Like you couldn't guess that from my screenname. Gestures and incantations to activate? Fine by me. Go ahead and call them Jutsus.
Samurai: OA: Lo5R: CWarrior: Fighter w Code & Weapon mods: I'd like this as a separate class, using a bonded weapon concept allowing enhancements, possibly as #rounds/day using the Bardic performance & Barbarian rage powers mechanics.
Shaman/Spirit Shaman: OA: CDivine: prepared divine caster dedicated to spirits rather than deities: Not a bad concept, but probably does not need a separate class, just treat the 'spirits' as domains.
Shugenja: OA: Lo5R: CDivine: spontaneous Divine caster with elemental domain/school: I WANT a Divine spontaneous full caster, but that's just me.
Sohei: OA: fighter/monk divine half-caster [only up to 4th lvl spells]: I like this concept, possibly increasing it to a full ¾ caster.
Wu Jen: OA: CArcane: prepared Arcane elemental specialist with code: probably does not need a separate class.
Races:
Hengeyokai [Badger, Carp, Cat, Crab, Crane, Dog, Fox, Hare, Mongoose*, Monkey, Raccoon Dog, Rat, Sparrow, Spider*, Weasel]: I like the transforming race idea, the ones with a * are from other sources.
Korobokuro: I don't really like this as a barbarian Dwarf race, perhaps if it could be presented as a half-dwarf race?
Naga [Asp, Chameleon, Cobra, Constrictor, Greensnake]: A traditional snake person option, but perhaps more Vudrani than main Xian Tia.
Nezumi: Rat people, due to the tradition, I guess.
Spirit Folk [Bamboo, River, Sea, Tree*]: I like this race, IF it can be kept distinct from all the myriad Elf variants. Again, the * line is from a non-D&D source.
Vanara: Monkey people, also traditional.
Personally, I like fox and cat people and would happily accept them in the game. However, I think I'd rather see the 'furries' subsumed as part of the Hengeyokai.
Also, IMO, the 2nd Ed/AD&D classes, except for those carried into 3.x are mostly either core class variants or prestige style classes. Bushi=fighter variant; Kensai=prestige weapon specialist; Yakuza=faction based rogue.
Comments?
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I find the whole thing to be a bit underwhelming TBH. I'm a big fan of L5R and I just think that that game already covers fantasy Japanese feudal society just about as well as it can be done. In fact every "Oriental" game setting since time immemorial has basically been fantasy Japan.
If I pick up the book and it's all about Ninja, Samurai, Shugenja, honour, katanas and seppaku I will be seriously disappointed. It's been done to death in many different formats. Why retread the same old tired cliches?
What I am actually interested in is stuff that hasn't been done extensively. China has been in existence potentially for 3700 years and yet little is written about it. I would rather Tian Xia be based around Ming or Yuan Dynasty China than Sengoku or Edo period Japan.
If that happens my interest will be piqued. I have faith.
Just one last thing. Please no new classes. Ninja and Samurai archetypes would be fine but no 20 level Ninja Class please...
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The Paizo people have said that Tian Xia won't be all about Japan and China. It'll be Golarion's Asia, featuring realms inspired by other regions and nations in real-world Asia and some realms that aren't directly inspired by any real-world Asian concepts. So it won't just be fantasy Japan. According to Paizo, it'll be fantasy Asia.
The Paizo people have said that Tian Xia won't be all about Japan and China. It'll be Golarion's Asia, featuring realms inspired by other regions and nations in real-world Asia and some realms that aren't directly inspired by any real-world Asian concepts. So it won't just be fantasy Japan. According to Paizo, it'll be fantasy Asia.
I agree on the +1 to this. If my previous post came out a tad bit Japan-centric, it's more because the source I used was.
While I listed mostly things I like because I'm more familar with them, I've no objection whatsoever to expanding my knowledge and potential enjoyment. In fact, as stated in the other thread, I am a Judge Dee fan. So, you could add Judge Dee and the Monkey King [more Forbidden Kingdom than Saiyuki] with no real lessening of my enjoyment of the setting.
Also, one of my favorite sections of OA was the India-variant demo setting, which was expanded later. Unfortunately I cannot find my copy of the expansion article, but I would love to see the rest of Asia protrayed fairly.
As a side note and in response to my own post, one other option for the non-caster interactive class might be to call it something like 'Noble' and have paths: Courtier, Diplomat, Magistrate.
All in all, I'm looking forward to this book.
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Creative Director
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Correct; just as the Inner Sea covers Europe an North Africa (sort of), Tian Xia will cover pretty much all of Asia (sort of—including Japan, China, Tibet, Nepal, Korea, the Pacific Islands, Cambodia, and so on).
It will NOT include things like nezumi or wu jen or other content that's from WotC's Oriental Adventures or the L5R setting, because those concepts are not open content AND because even if they were, they're from a different campaign setting.
Correct; just as the Inner Sea covers Europe an North Africa (sort of), Tian Xia will cover pretty much all of Asia (sort of—including Japan, China, Tibet, Nepal, Korea, the Pacific Islands, Cambodia, and so on).
It will NOT include things like nezumi or wu jen or other content that's from WotC's Oriental Adventures or the L5R setting, because those concepts are not open content AND because even if they were, they're from a different campaign setting.
Since wu jen are completely fictional, that makes me happy...
There are such things as Wu, but they would be Oracles in PF
There are such things as Wu, but they would be Oracles in PF
More like wizards, witches, druids, or magus actually, but I guess it all depends on exactly which mythical story or other work of fiction you are citing for reference and which one has the appropriate spell or class ability to match the ability presented in the story.
Correct; just as the Inner Sea covers Europe an North Africa (sort of), Tian Xia will cover pretty much all of Asia (sort of—including Japan, China, Tibet, Nepal, Korea, the Pacific Islands, Cambodia, and so on).
It will NOT include things like nezumi or wu jen or other content that's from WotC's Oriental Adventures or the L5R setting, because those concepts are not open content AND because even if they were, they're from a different campaign setting.
Oh, darn it, now I'm all depressed...
Kidding.
As I implied, those two concepts in particular I wasn't as interested in.
I'm still definitely looking forward to what you do produce, and as I have a homebrew world, I may just adapt things you can't for that.
Still, I hope some of the concepts I mentiond are close to what you're doing.
Hope they are reading lands of the Jade Oath ;) Enlightened Scholars are a great idea.
I'd like to see the standard Japanese tropes of samurai and ninja be just another Fighter and Rogue or Monk variant, respectively (ninja actually works better as a Monk variant).
Definitely different fighting schools worked up as feats. The students of fighting schools could be monks or fighters, and then you'd need a good unarmed fighter.
==Aelryinth
Hope they are reading lands of the Jade Oath ;) Enlightened Scholars are a great idea.
I'd like to see the standard Japanese tropes of samurai and ninja be just another Fighter and Rogue or Monk variant, respectively (ninja actually works better as a Monk variant).
Definitely different fighting schools worked up as feats. The students of fighting schools could be monks or fighters, and then you'd need a good unarmed fighter.
==Aelryinth
Samurai aren't Cavaliers? I think Ashigaru would be Fighters. Then there are the famous Outlow tropes from China. Mostly Rangers and Rogues?
Hope they are reading lands of the Jade Oath ;) Enlightened Scholars are a great idea.
I'd like to see the standard Japanese tropes of samurai and ninja be just another Fighter and Rogue or Monk variant, respectively (ninja actually works better as a Monk variant).
Definitely different fighting schools worked up as feats. The students of fighting schools could be monks or fighters, and then you'd need a good unarmed fighter.
==Aelryinth
Ninja would be a great combo of them (monk base, swapping something, probably flurry, for sneak attack, give them poison use for something, and so on).
I want to see archetypes...I love those variant class things. Also new equipment, spells, etc. with an Asian feel to them.
The stuff about religions and not-just-fantasy-Japan also are definitely good things. Something similar to the world of Jade Empire would be a lot of fun as one of the countries.
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Hope they are reading lands of the Jade Oath ;) Enlightened Scholars are a great idea.
I'd like to see the standard Japanese tropes of samurai and ninja be just another Fighter and Rogue or Monk variant, respectively (ninja actually works better as a Monk variant).
Definitely different fighting schools worked up as feats. The students of fighting schools could be monks or fighters, and then you'd need a good unarmed fighter.
==Aelryinth
Samurai aren't Cavaliers? I think Ashigaru would be Fighters. Then there are the famous Outlow tropes from China. Mostly Rangers and Rogues?
As I repeatedly try to explain to people: "samurai" is a social class, not a profession. Even if you want to use the most liberal definition of samurai from a western viewpoint, then a samurai is a highly-literate horse-mounted archer who happens to be a decent swordsman as well, so yes, cavalier works for that. But there were samurai archers, samurai cavalry, samurai painters, samurai poets, samurai bureaucrats, samurai swordsmen, samurai accountants... You see where I'm going with this.
And ninja does not work better as a monk variant. "Ninja" were just spies and occasional assassins, not especially noteworthy martial artists. Most historical ninja (by which I mean "the Japanese spies who became called ninja toward the end of the Tokugawa Period by popular fiction of the time") were also samurai, in the service of various daimyo or the shogunate. You can make one with rogue, right out of the box. Even if you want a mystical ninja, you can make a rogue with minor arcana and major arcana.
And I think the Chinese outlaws you're talking about are the lin kuei, the "forest devils." Ranger and rogue would be a perfect fit for those guys, from what little I know about them.
Jeremy Puckett
As I repeatedly try to explain to people: "samurai" is a social class, not a profession. Even if you want to use the most liberal definition of samurai from a western viewpoint, then a samurai is a highly-literate horse-mounted archer who happens to be a decent swordsman as well, so yes, cavalier works for that. But there were samurai archers, samurai cavalry, samurai painters, samurai poets, samurai bureaucrats, samurai swordsmen, samurai accountants... You see where I'm going with this.
And ninja does not work better as a monk variant. "Ninja" were just spies and occasional assassins, not especially noteworthy martial artists. Most historical ninja (by which I mean "the Japanese spies who became called ninja toward the end of the Tokugawa Period by popular fiction of the time") were also samurai, in the service of various daimyo or the shogunate. You can make one with rogue, right out of the box. Even if you want a mystical ninja, you can make a rogue with minor arcana and major arcana.
And I think the Chinese outlaws you're talking about are the lin kuei, the "forest devils." Ranger and rogue would be a perfect fit for those guys, from what little I know about them.
I agree. Cavalier exspecially fits greatly with the samurai concept IMHO.
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Correct; just as the Inner Sea covers Europe an North Africa (sort of), Tian Xia will cover pretty much all of Asia (sort of—including Japan, China, Tibet, Nepal, Korea, the Pacific Islands, Cambodia, and so on).
It will NOT include things like nezumi or wu jen or other content that's from WotC's Oriental Adventures or the L5R setting, because those concepts are not open content AND because even if they were, they're from a different campaign setting.
OK I'm curious to see what comes out of this.
Personally if it has a feel similar to Bioware's "Jade Empire" I will be happy.
Minus the flying machines of course...
There are such things as Wu, but they would be Oracles in PFMore like wizards, witches, druids, or magus actually, but I guess it all depends on exactly which mythical story or other work of fiction you are citing for reference and which one has the appropriate spell or class ability to match the ability presented in the story.
I am going off the anthropological literature. These are my notes for a few years ago. There may be some Wade-Giles mixed with Pinyin here-- but I thought people might enjoy these ideas/concepts...
Wu = "witch, shaman" These are magicians who oversee ghost shrines, exorcisms, use drums and masks. They sometimes "seduce" gods and spirits. Wu are generally female; male equivalents are Hsi. Wu were linked to the soul-stealing panic of 1768 and Wu practice was banned in 1521. Nei-shih (eunuchs) are often linked to female Wu magic because they are genderless (Yao-jen: transgendered/sorcerer).Fang-shih or Shu-shih are [male] apothecaries/alchemists; those who know magic without Taoist wisdom.
Hsien-men are male shamans who cure, divine the future and sacrifice to natural forces.
Shi Kung/Sai Kong = exorcists/lay Taoist master.
Yao-jen = sorcerer/monster/freak = transperson. Yao-shu = sorcery.
Hsi = male sorcerer, consorts with natural spirits.
Wu-i = sorcerer-physician.
Chieh = spellbinding.
Yue Lao Xian Weng (Yue-Laou, Yue Xia Lao Ren, alias Yue Lao Gong) is the Elder King of the Moon; he arranges for ghost marriages between unmarried ghost women and mortal men. His day is the 15th day of the 8th month.
Shuh, Shù = magic, sleight of hand; Ch’ai = divination; Hsieh = black magic; Yin is associated with illusion and magic. Zhì = wisdom, gnosis. Zhou = conjure, compel. Yan dao = curse, lit, ‘foul prayer.’
Yaozei = ‘wizardly rebels/bandits’ Yaoshu = heterodox magic. Yaoren = wizard. Xieshu = heretical magic.
Mo = magic (etymologically related)
‘Mo-tao’ = human ‘demon chiefs’ who lead dark cults. Moguei = Mara, demon of illusion.
I'd like to see a different planar cosmology, one that isn't Transition+Elemental+Alignment planes. If anything, I'd like to see a two-plane cosmology: a material world and a spirit world. (I'm basing this not on any knowledge of eastern religion, but on the MTG Kamigawa set novels.)
Also, I'd like to see Mikos, as either a PrC or an Oracle archetype.
I'd like to see a different planar cosmology, one that isn't Transition+Elemental+Alignment planes. If anything, I'd like to see a two-plane cosmology: a material world and a spirit world. (I'm basing this not on any knowledge of eastern religion, but on the MTG Kamigawa set novels.)
Also, I'd like to see Mikos, as either a PrC or an Oracle archetype.** spoiler omitted **
I'd like to see a different planar cosmology, one that isn't Transition+Elemental+Alignment planes. If anything, I'd like to see a two-plane cosmology: a material world and a spirit world. (I'm basing this not on any knowledge of eastern religion, but on the MTG Kamigawa set novels.)
Also, I'd like to see Mikos, as either a PrC or an Oracle archetype.** spoiler omitted **
:(
Joking aside, I really would like to see something like the miko represented in gaming. And whatever the hell the male equivalent would be.
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I'd like to see a different planar cosmology, one that isn't Transition+Elemental+Alignment planes. If anything, I'd like to see a two-plane cosmology: a material world and a spirit world. (I'm basing this not on any knowledge of eastern religion, but on the MTG Kamigawa set novels.)
Er, no. The entire planer cosmology shouldn't change radically because you cross an ocean. Tian Xia is not it's own new campaign setting, it's a part of Golarion.