Movement During a Charge: You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent. If you move a distance equal to your speed or less, you can also draw a weapon during a charge attack if your base attack bonus is at least +1.
I get the idea here that you are using your standard action to double your movement, but the idea that I can't draw a weapon, even though I'm actually traveling a greater distance, seems wrong to me. Game mechanics I get, but realistically if I'm traveling across a greater expanse of space it would seem I'd have just that much more time to pull my sword from its scabbard and slice my opponent in half. What do other GMs do in this situation? I'd be inclined to let a PC that just traveled twice their base movement also draw a weapon.
I'm thinking at full sprint it might be quite difficult to pull a sword out while doing so. Drawing the weapon slows you down.
What do other GMs do in this situation? I'd be inclined to let a PC that just traveled twice their base movement also draw a weapon.
You only need a +1 bab in order to draw your weapon while moving. I think that's fair. And I suppose the rules are assuming you'll have to really sprint to move more than your movement in a round so that's why you can't draw your weapon in a charge which exceeds your move.
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I get the idea here that you are using your standard action to double your movement, but the idea that I can't draw a weapon, even though I'm actually traveling a greater distance, seems wrong to me. Game mechanics I get, but realistically if I'm traveling across a greater expanse of space it would seem I'd have just that much more time to pull my sword from its scabbard and slice my opponent in half. What do other GMs do in this situation? I'd be inclined to let a PC that just traveled twice their base movement also draw a weapon.
You're forgetting that you are covering a greater amount of distance in the same amount of time. If you move 30 ft in six seconds, you can get your sword out. If you move 60 ft in six seconds, you can't. Moving further in a round does not mean you have more time, it means you have less.
I'm thinking at full sprint it might be quite difficult to pull a sword out while doing so. Drawing the weapon slows you down.
Pretty much this.
Also, if you are not careful about house rulling things like this, quick draw because a worthless feat.
These are all valid arguments, and I completely see where everyone is coming from, but I still can't shake the idea that a battle veteran (read bab +1 or greater) would have little problem in being able to draw a weapon from a sheath while covering that much distance. I get that sprinting is a bit of extra exertion, but that's mostly (I'd say at least 70%) done with your legs. I also get that houseruling this would take away the quick draw feat. I haven't as of yet had this particular scenario occur, so I was looking for some other GM feedback. Thanks for all your ideas. I guess I'll mull this one over awhile.
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Quickdraw :p
That's the game equivalent of the charging battle veteran *read fighter* being able to pull his blade free in a seconds notice, or while performing an action that would otherwise make drawing a weapon too difficult.
Two levels of fighter = great for the extra feats :D
There's a difference between a battle veteran running towards an opponent, and one charging.
For the charging, think more along the lines of the whole body leaning forward at a significant slant, shoulders and torso rotating with the pumping of the legs to provide more force for movement. That's why it's hard to draw a weapon.
Just using your legs would be a move action, not a charge, and would allow you to draw your weapon as part of it if your bab was +1 or higher.
Yeah charging is actually giving you up to three actions in the place of a normal round of actions:
Up to two moves, and a standard attack.
That's why there are so many restrictions on it.
Besides I want to see you run 60 feet, draw a weapon and attack with it all in under 6 seconds.
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I have a weapon drawing question that may be a bit off topic. We within the last month or so switched from 3.5 to PF, two of the group came back from 4E. We are really settling into PF.
Anyways everyone, but myself, agrees that with a +1 BAB a character can take a 5' step (during which they draw their weapon) and take a full attack action. Their argument is that the 5' step is the move. Doesn't this make quick draw worthless?
A 5' step is not a move action. Drawing a weapon is a move action, unless you have Quick Draw. So I'd say you're right.
I have a weapon drawing question that may be a bit off topic. We within the last month or so switched from 3.5 to PF, two of the group came back from 4E. We are really settling into PF.
Anyways everyone, but myself, agrees that with a +1 BAB a character can take a 5' step (during which they draw their weapon) and take a full attack action. Their argument is that the 5' step is the move. Doesn't this make quick draw worthless?
it would and I disagree, in the table it says it is a move action to draw a weapon. It also says you can draw a weapon during a regular move instead, in my opinion this is just wishful reading, trying to draw a weapon with something less than a move action.
Always found quick draw an underrated feat, I'd have a good use for it plenty of times, making for a flexible combatant for sure.
I suppose having them in difficult terrain will keep them from 5 feet stepping and drawing a weapon though.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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The other thing that they like to do is draw a weapon during a 5' step, standard attack, and perform another move action since they say the 5' is free and the drawing of the weapon is free. So now they are basically attacking and performing 2 move actions in my opinion.
you can only use a 5' step if you don't make other movement in the round, you can't use a 5' step to effectively get an extra 5' of movement.
I'm thinking at full sprint it might be quite difficult to pull a sword out while doing so.
At a full sprint, it would be, but a charge (2x movement) is still little more than a slow jog. Remember, a sprint is 4x normal movement.
I understand concerns about economy of action around a game table, but trying to tie game rules to anything that is in any way "realistic" is doomed from the get-go.
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Open a door (move action), take a 5' step through the door while drawing a weapon, and then attacking.Is this legal?
No, because you cannot draw as part of a 5ft step. It must be an actual move action. A 5ft step is not a move action, otherwise you would not be able to full attack and 5ft step in one round. Therefore, it does not meet the qualifications for the move and draw rule. They need quickdraw for that scenario.
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Amusing anecdote. Fighter in my game took Quickdraw. The party got in a barfight in a crowded tavern. Fighter's turn comes up and the player states 'Quickdraw great axe.' We spent a minute laughing and pondering exactly how one does that. Now anytime there is a problem we quote that line. Solves all problems.
Quickdraw :p
That's the game equivalent of the charging battle veteran *read fighter* being able to pull his blade free in a seconds notice, or while performing an action that would otherwise make drawing a weapon too difficult.
Two levels of fighter = great for the extra feats :D
There's a difference between a battle veteran running towards an opponent, and one charging.
For the charging, think more along the lines of the whole body leaning forward at a significant slant, shoulders and torso rotating with the pumping of the legs to provide more force for movement. That's why it's hard to draw a weapon.
Just using your legs would be a move action, not a charge, and would allow you to draw your weapon as part of it if your bab was +1 or higher.
Yeah charging is actually giving you up to three actions in the place of a normal round of actions:
Up to two moves, and a standard attack.
That's why there are so many restrictions on it.
Besides I want to see you run 60 feet, draw a weapon and attack with it all in under 6 seconds.
Great explanations. Point conceded. Oh, and by the way. However much I wish I was, I'm not a battle veteran. Xp
Besides I want to see you run 60 feet, draw a weapon and attack with it all in under 6 seconds.
An 8 minute mile for me (jogging at military cadence) translates to 11 ft./second. You're talking 10 feet per second, which is an equivalent (even slightly slower) rate. It's in no way "running." So, do I think I can draw a sword and swing while slowly jogging -- or, conversely, draw the sword, sprint 60 ft., and then swing once? Yes, without question. (BTW, six seconds is a pretty long time, during an actual HTH fight.)
For what it's worth, I've houseruled quickdraw out of the game.
Me, too. +1 BAB or a Sleight of Hand check is good enough for me.
Besides I want to see you run 60 feet, draw a weapon and attack with it all in under 6 seconds.An 8 minute mile for me (jogging at military cadence) translates to 11 ft./second. You're talking 10 feet per second, which is an equivalent (even slightly slower) rate. It's in no way "running." So, do I think I can draw a sword and swing while slowly jogging -- or, conversely, draw the sword, sprint 60 ft., and then swing once? Yes, without question. (BTW, six seconds is a pretty long time, during an actual HTH fight.)
Granted six seconds is a long time -- but I said under six not at six. The reason being if they move you have to account for that movement in real time while in the middle of the charge, and account for everyone else's movement too -- now I'm not saying it's impossible -- I'm saying it's a bit more difficult than simply running at someone and swinging -- the weapon involved would probably make a huge difference too: Most swords and their sheaths are designed for easy access, the same might not be true of a scythe or double axe, etc.
Six seconds translates into about 1/7 of the total time that most melee fights last so yeah it's a huge amount of time in combat (incidentally D&D fights are actually a little bit faster usually).