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I have read many threads that Kyuss was pretty much whooped. I have read some where the DM has changed or fudged Kyuss to make him better. My goal is to use him as written, change a few of his spells
and make him the worst nightmare any of the players have ever met.
So first things first Kyuss won't have to be alone since the party failed to destroy Lashonna ;) That is key to him surviving more than four rounds. The module as written has him taking two rounds to emerge from the monolith before he can take any actions. With events the party has taken the writers have had him stripped of his level 1 deity status and reduced to a 0 level deity. He would be left with 660 HP Dr 10 Epic (which the party is) His AC would be 38, Spell Resistance of 40 and saves in the 30's. No special immunity's to speak of. He's not undead, (which should take the party by surprise) he is an aberration, and definitely evil.
His spell casting abilities are great! If he can get them off. His attacks were nerfed so his attacks with a +5 vorpal unholy vicious executioner's mace, for a ECL 30, are +26/+21/+16/+11, come on! He's supposed to be a God!
I am going to allow him to have a metamagic rod of maximize.
My plan as it stands now are to have him cast a maximized (rod) Time Stop!
Round 1: Cast Shapechange. He would then Shapechange into a Chronotryn for duel actions.
Round 2: Gate in two Wormdrakes (from the tabernacle of worms (these things are 20HD, have greater dispel as a spell like ability and are pretty tough)). Prismatic Sphere. Quickened Spell Immunity, (30 levels = 7.5; one 8th lvl spell) against Greater Dispel Magic
Round 3: He casts a Contingency that goes off if he is ever unable to act for any reason. This Plane Shifts him to the Astral Plane. Maximized Spell Turning reflects 10 spell lvls back at caster. Quickened Displacement 50% miss chance.
Round 4: Unholy Aura; +4 deflection to AC +4 to resist bonus to saves for all creatures (wormdrakes, lashonna and balor) w/ in 20' radius. Time Stop, (again)
Round 5: Summon Monster I (100 ft down in spire) Fiendish Monstorous Spider, small. Misdirection; misdirect information from divination spells that reveal aruas (party mage's Arcane Sight) sees Kyuss as aforementioned spider.
Round 6: Phase Door on monolith as an escape route. Permanency on Phase Door.
Round 7: Obscure Object on Monolith hides it from party mage's Arcane Sight. Moment of Prescience; +25 on any roll. Quickened Shield
Round 8: Maximized Mirror Image eight images. Iron Body DR 15/adamantine +6 to STR -6 to DEX. Quickened Divine Agility, (Spell Compendium) +10 enhancement bonus to DEX
Round 9: Haste; Wish, self and all allies go top of intitiative order next round. Shapechange back to self, Quickened Harm.
Time Stop over. Kyuss uses Mordenkainen's Disjunction centered on party mage(s). All allies hit the remaining party members with targeted Greater Dispel Magic.
Crunchy, crunchy, crunchy...
The party has about 7 PC/NPC's all level 20 or higher. Very resourceful group. They have the Sphere of Annihilation, Darl Quethos with the Hand of Vecna and a I believe two wishes left to use. They will be coming at Kyuss fresh.
Thoughts?
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In case anyone is thinking, "Geez, is he trying to kill his players?" The answer is no. In the past I have thought that using an NPC to it's fullest potential would be somehow dangerous or result in TPK, they always seem to pull out of it. Or worse, they make it look way to easy.
If things start to go awry, and the party begins to crumble I have a back up plan. Prince Zeech sees his opportunity and comes to "save the day". By himself he won't add much to the fight but he could bring along his own "adventuring party" to solidify his position as sovereign ruler. I think this will add to the flavor of the final ecnounter with the Prince of Redhand at the end of the module.
Also, they have Darl there with them. He's not necessarily on thier side, afterall he is still a "BBG" in his own rights. So if the fight swings too far in the parties favor he could take advantage of the opportunity in his own right. Or converesely he could call in his old adventuring party from LoLR, most of them survived, if Kyuss kicks too much mortal a$$.
I just want an Epic fight with Kyuss, not the disappointment I have read about so many times on the boards.
In case anyone is thinking, "Geez, is he trying to kill his players?" The answer is no. In the past I have thought that using an NPC to it's fullest potential would be somehow dangerous or result in TPK, they always seem to pull out of it. Or worse, they make it look way to easy.
If things start to go awry, and the party begins to crumble I have a back up plan. Prince Zeech sees his opportunity and comes to "save the day". By himself he won't add much to the fight but he could bring along his own "adventuring party" to solidify his position as sovereign ruler. I think this will add to the flavor of the final ecnounter with the Prince of Redhand at the end of the module.
Also, they have Darl there with them. He's not necessarily on thier side, afterall he is still a "BBG" in his own rights. So if the fight swings too far in the parties favor he could take advantage of the opportunity in his own right. Or converesely he could call in his old adventuring party from LoLR, most of them survived, if Kyuss kicks too much mortal a$$.
I just want an Epic fight with Kyuss, not the disappointment I have read about so many times on the boards.
I think the problem is the wasted round on Kyuss emerging. I will have it be one round, but a shapable wall of force will stop the party from being able to hurt him. It is then time to bring the pain. Depending on how many people show up he might have help. They better hope they kill Dragotha because if not he will be there too.
Edit: I like your plan so far. I will look at it again later when I am more coherent.
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In case anyone is thinking, "Geez, is he trying to kill his players?" The answer is no. In the past I have thought that using an NPC to it's fullest potential would be somehow dangerous or result in TPK, they always seem to pull out of it. Or worse, they make it look way to easy.
Don't feel guilty, at all.
Don't forget, the writers can only assume every group is using Core Rules, and I'm sure most players out there are happy to milk the best build they can, from whatever books they can.
It never ceases to amaze me how quick some players are to cry foul, if the DM adjusts the opposition, to use options from the very same sources they expect to use.
I'm in Champion's Belt right now, and none of those teams are being run as written, since they wouldn't last a minute. Not because they're not 'optimised', but in most cases, they're sub-optimal. Korrush wastes a feat, to be able to use his scimitar as though it were a rapier; why not just use a rapier? A arcane archer, who prepares Jump as one of her spells, for a fight in a featureless sandpit. A barbarian/druid, who can rage, or cast spells, but not at the same time.
I also have the issue that one of my players was previously my DM (for SC), and admitted to skimming the AoW issues, several years ago, when deciding what to run.
So I have to change some stuff, to keep it fresh for him, and remove the temptation to metagame.
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Wraithstrike, thank-you! The wall of force would have to come from somewhere. And since (I invoke the great name) James Jacobs has said, and I quote; "Kyuss can't cast spells out of the monolith." it would be difficult to reason the WoF in the final encounter. Thanks for saying things looked pretty tight for Kyuss thus far. I look forward to your more coherent response :)
Tip-Sniffer, Mr. Snorting, I agree about the splat books. However my group only uses the core books plus the Spell Compendium. My players are of the utmost quality (though they lack in quantity)and have up to this point played a VERY good game.
I hope you enjoy the arena half as much as we did. Part of me wishes the flavor of the game continued in this vein for the rest of the campaign. Another part of me truly appreciates the diversity the path offers. If you need any help with the arena or the adversaries I have saved everything I have done and found valuable from the boards, let me know I can forward you what I have.
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I am playing in one week; the final showdown with Kyuss! Anyone who can tear down and rebuild my plans that would be great! I have 4 players/4 NPC's all 20+ level, with a sphere of annihilation, and the Hand of Vecna, using the core rule books and the Spell Compendium as books. Is there a better way to prepare Kyuss, RAW?
I know what James said, but sometimes you have to overlook the book, especially if Kyuss is not in God mode. The custom Wall of Force could have been a contigent spell that activates as soon as any part of Kyuss leaves the monolith. I would probably a 2nd wall of force set to go off in the event that the first one was done away with.
I am assuming they have the talisman of the sphere. If someone were to use Telekensis to remove the talisman and bring it over to Team Evil's side, things might get interesting, but if the holder of it has really high will saves then I would not worry about it that idea. I would however procure a rod of cancellation to get rid of the sphere itself.
If the party has 7 players and its only Kyuss and Lashonna then economy of actions still puts them in a lot of trouble. I would have some lesser bad guys there to even things out. They should not be BBEG level, but they should be enough of a threat that the party can't just ignore them. That stops the party from focusing fire on Lashonna or Kyuss because that is what I would do if I were a PC. I know you have Kyuss bringing in other monsters, but that means Lashonna is on her own for the time being. That is a waste of a really good ally.
I am playing in one week; the final showdown with Kyuss! Anyone who can tear down and rebuild my plans that would be great! I have 4 players/4 NPC's all 20+ level, with a sphere of annihilation, and the Hand of Vecna, using the core rule books and the Spell Compendium as books. Is there a better way to prepare Kyuss, RAW?
By RAW do you mean without changing any of his spells, or without any homebrew stuff?
Round 2: Gate in two Wormdrakes (from the tabernacle of worms (these things are 20HD, have greater dispel as a spell like ability and are pretty tough)). Prismatic Sphere. Quickened Spell Immunity, (30 levels = 7.5; one 8th lvl spell) against Greater Dispel Magic
I think you can't be immune to a spell that doesn't affect you....but your spells.
Kyuss looks like he's going to spend the whole fight on defense. There's some magic for support of his minions in there, but when is he going to actually kill the PCs? Nine rounds gives your party a lot of time to do in his minions and then turn around and focus on him if they have to. Sure, his defenses will be great, but when the PCs have a sphere of annihilation, even prismatic sphere isn't going to be enough to save you.
Time-Stopping to buff is a must. Good call with the rod!
I like gating in the wormdrakes. Good, flavorful beasts. The dream larva (epic monster from SRD) might suit your taste as well.
Do not forget to buff death ward! You don't want to fail on a nat 1 to destruction or slay living, and enervation might give you headaches otherwise.
Spell Immunity only works against spells that are SR=yes; so Spell Immunity: Greater Dispel Magic is out. Kyuss biggest fear should be Mordenkainen's Disjunction, anyways. That, and pesky adventurer's gear is seriously f*ed by antimagic field, centered on self. Remember, "artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this", so he still could use his divine blast, his artifacts, possibly his spells, and under very liberal interpretation even his buffs.
Also, he should be able to use miracle to good effect; for instance heal himself and allies from all afflictions or such. Or infest all in Alhaster at once, so that the PCs have only 2d4 rounds to prevent total desaster when the worms reach all brains...
If you want to keep his class level, hit dice, divine rank and such, but change spell selection, you are "optimizing" him instead of "adding things". In that case, you might want to look at feats, too. He qualifies for some very nice epic feats, such as spell stowaway (time stop) and/or Multispell. Epic Spellcasting is also nice, if you want to develop your own unique signature spell for him.
Good luck and have fun! Oh, and please post your vict... err, findings.
Oh, and have a gate ready when they use the sphere. Requires less actions than wishing for a rod and then using it.
Death Ward doesn't stop disintegrate, although in 3.5 it will stop Finger of Death, presuming the characters bother to prepare anything remotely saving throw dependent such as these spells.
Remember, he cannot cast anything outside of the monolith - including summons, as I understand your description.
However, you are mistaken on spell immunity.
First, it provides immunity to (at CL 28 - 31) 7 spells each of which are 4th level or lower AND are subject to SR. Dispel Magic and its variants are not. Spell Turning is your primary line of defense against Dispel Magic.
The Spell Compendium provides a great many nasty, nasty spells that Kyuss can make use of. One of these is Greater Consumptive Field. I would have Lashonna fire off a rod-extended time stop of her own, summoning vast hordes of low-hp mook times that are to remain at the upper edge of Kyuss' greater consumptive field. Get, say, 30 or so mooks flapping around in the air above Kyuss' noggin. Lashonna can also arrange - combined with gating in the much tougher critters that you have mentioned - to 'transport in' support critters such as various higher-end fiends, the cleric worm critters and so on.
Once Kyuss is able to act, have him zap the 30 'back ground' squid bats that are 'decorative' and not in the characters way with a quickened mass inflict of sufficient damage output as to insta-kill the lot. Slurp 30 critters' worth of bonuses from the greater consumptive field, THEN proceed to stomp on the characters. As other mini-onions buy the farm, Kyuss gets MORE bonuses. Anything that the characters slaughter while Kyuss benefits from that field is to Kyuss' benefit. If possible, have that field widened via another rod in a pocket. Combined with an anti-life shell he can pick and choose his melee targets, once he runs out of mass harms, implosions and the like to soften them up with. He and any allies should work to obliterate the support critters that the characters have - especially if they get creative and gate in solars or something equally horrific - send those critters packing with quickened dismissals, banishment or anything else (such as the aforementioned disjunction) at your disposal.
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I am assuming they have the talisman of the sphere. If someone were to use Telekensis to remove the talisman and bring it over to Team Evil's side, things might get interesting, but if the holder of it has really high will saves then I would not worry about it that idea. I would however procure a rod of cancellation to get rid of the sphere itself.
If the party has 7 players and its only Kyuss and Lashonna then economy of actions still puts them in a lot of trouble. I would have some lesser bad guys there to even things out. They should not be BBEG level, but they should be enough of a threat that the party can't just ignore them. That stops the party from focusing fire on Lashonna or Kyuss because that is what I would do if I were a PC. I know you have Kyuss bringing in other monsters, but that means Lashonna is on her own for the time being. That is a waste of a really good ally.
Yup, they have the Talisman and the Sphere. I am very concerned about how this is going to play into the scene. I plan on having Lashonna working with her Pit Fiend and calling in at least three more Blessed Angels, one of them will be equipped with a rod of cancellation, (someone else on the boards use this idea and I like it.)
I am figuring the use of two Wormdrakes, a pit fiend, and the Blessed Angels will be enough to have the party needing to spread their resources. And if the need arises Darl can take advantage of the situation and turn on the party >:-)
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Kyuss looks like he's going to spend the whole fight on defense. There's some magic for support of his minions in there, but when is he going to actually kill the PCs? Nine rounds gives your party a lot of time to do in his minions and then turn around and focus on him if they have to. Sure, his defenses will be great, but when the PCs have a sphere of annihilation, even prismatic sphere isn't going to be enough to save you.
Thanks for your input. The nine rounds I have outlined are under Time Stop. The PCs won't be able to act for those nine rounds and Kyuss can't cast offensive spells in those nine rounds per the spell description. He will certainly go on the offensive once this opening salvo is done.
I am counting on that a Disjunctioned mage won't be focusing on the Sphere as much as his "Oh Sh*t!" response once all of his spells have been stripped. (And the rest of the party is losing their buffs.)
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I like gating in the wormdrakes. Good, flavorful beasts. The dream larva (epic monster from SRD) might suit your taste as well.
Do not forget to buff death ward! You don't want to fail on a nat 1 to destruction or slay living, and enervation might give you headaches otherwise.
Interesting...
As of right now the party believes Kyuss to be undead, I can say with confidence that they haven't prepared any negative energy spells. Is there any other reason you feel I should prepare for this alternative?
I like gating in the wormdrakes. Good, flavorful beasts. The dream larva (epic monster from SRD) might suit your taste as well.
Do not forget to buff death ward! You don't want to fail on a nat 1 to destruction or slay living, and enervation might give you headaches otherwise.
Interesting...
As of right now the party believes Kyuss to be undead, I can say with confidence that they haven't prepared any negative energy spells. Is there any other reason you feel I should prepare for this alternative?
My only input (because groups vary extremely with 'typical' damage output, tactics and style) is that the astral/plane shift stuff should not be used because if i recall the whole purpose of Tensor/Manzorian etc etc operating in the background was to have all planar shifting and related effects not work for Kyuss and those who worship him which is what gives the PC's the chance to kill him in the first place. So astral contingency should be right out. I know the blessed angels can still teleport/etc because they don't worship Kyuss himself, but they were listed as a specific exception.
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Spell Immunity only works against spells that are SR=yes; so Spell Immunity: Greater Dispel Magic is out. Kyuss biggest fear should be Mordenkainen's Disjunction, anyways. That, and pesky adventurer's gear is seriously f*ed by antimagic field, centered on self. Remember, "artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this", so he still could use his divine blast, his artifacts, possibly his spells, and under very liberal interpretation even his buffs.
Also, he should be able to use miracle to good effect; for instance heal himself and allies from all afflictions or such. Or infest all in Alhaster at once, so that the PCs have only 2d4 rounds to prevent total desaster when the worms reach all brains...
If you want to keep his class level, hit dice, divine rank and such, but change spell selection, you are "optimizing" him instead of "adding things". In that case, you might want to look at feats, too. He qualifies for some very nice epic feats, such as spell stowaway (time stop) and/or Multispell. Epic Spellcasting is also nice, if you want to develop your own unique signature spell for him.
Good luck and have fun! Oh, and please post your vict... err, findings.
Doh! Thanks, everyone, for clarifying the Spell Immunity for me. We've been using it wrong.
I had contemplated the anti-magic field, and will keep that suggestion in mind. I REALLY like that evil idea of using Miracle to infest all of the brains in Alhaster!
I am committed to sticking with Kyuss being stripped due to the events the party put so much energy into. Besides, if he can tan their hides without his Divine "extras" then that makes him even more fierce-some.
Yes, optimizing him is my goal. Thanks for clarifying that. I am not a player/DM who uses spell casters very often or even very effectively. So this is a big learning curve. The more I delve into the use of things outside of the 3.5 PHB the more my head spins. So, I have tried to K.I.S.S. Keep It Silly Simple.
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My only input (because groups vary extremely with 'typical' damage output, tactics and style) is that the astral/plane shift stuff should not be used because if i recall the whole purpose of Tensor/Manzorian etc etc operating in the background was to have all planar shifting and related effects not work for Kyuss and those who worship him which is what gives the PC's the chance to kill him in the first place. So astral contingency should be right out. I know the blessed angels can still teleport/etc because they don't worship Kyuss himself, but they were listed as a specific exception.
Thanks Rathendar for your input, I thought of that too. However in the module it leads me to believe that Manzorians dimensional lock only last one week, and "Once Kyuss emerges as a god, the effects of this spell quickly become meaningless. Certainly it'll help keep his other minions form calling upon aid or escaping."
I am going to play it that once Kyuss emerges that spell is null and void.
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The Spell Compendium provides a great many nasty, nasty spells that Kyuss can make use of. One of these is Greater Consumptive Field. I would have Lashonna fire off a rod-extended time stop of her own, summoning vast hordes of low-hp mook times that are to remain at the upper edge of Kyuss' greater consumptive field. Get, say, 30 or so mooks flapping around in the air above Kyuss' noggin. Lashonna can also arrange - combined with gating in the much tougher critters that you have mentioned - to 'transport in' support critters such as various higher-end fiends, the cleric worm critters and so on.
Once Kyuss is able to act, have him zap the 30 'back ground' squid bats that are 'decorative' and not in the characters way with a quickened mass inflict of sufficient damage output as to insta-kill the lot. Slurp 30 critters' worth of bonuses from the greater consumptive field, THEN proceed to stomp on the characters. As other mini-onions buy the farm, Kyuss gets MORE bonuses. Anything that the characters slaughter while Kyuss benefits from that field is to Kyuss' benefit. If possible, have that field widened via another rod in a pocket. Combined with an anti-life shell he can pick and choose his melee targets, once he runs out of mass harms, implosions and the like to soften them up with. He and any allies should work to obliterate the support critters that the characters have - especially...
See, that's "optimizing" Kyuss! Being a rooky high level spell caster this seems a lot to keep track of, but highly effective. That could get ugly really fast. I will dig deeper into your suggestion and see what I can do with it, thank-you!
Kyuss looks like he's going to spend the whole fight on defense. There's some magic for support of his minions in there, but when is he going to actually kill the PCs? Nine rounds gives your party a lot of time to do in his minions and then turn around and focus on him if they have to. Sure, his defenses will be great, but when the PCs have a sphere of annihilation, even prismatic sphere isn't going to be enough to save you.Thanks for your input. The nine rounds I have outlined are under Time Stop. The PCs won't be able to act for those nine rounds and Kyuss can't cast offensive spells in those nine rounds per the spell description. He will certainly go on the offensive once this opening salvo is done.
I am counting on that a Disjunctioned mage won't be focusing on the Sphere as much as his "Oh Sh*t!" response once all of his spells have been stripped. (And the rest of the party is losing their buffs.)
I missed the time stop at the beginning. Maximized it's 5 rounds, didn't see a 2nd time stop. Still, if you want to do build your defenses, time stop is hard to beat.
Or he could use all those rounds to slaughter the PCs. 10 rounds of actions against the PCs where they barely get to do anything? In a world with forcecage, cloudkill, incendiary cloud, and delayed blast fireball?
I am assuming they have the talisman of the sphere. If someone were to use Telekensis to remove the talisman and bring it over to Team Evil's side, things might get interesting, but if the holder of it has really high will saves then I would not worry about it that idea. I would however procure a rod of cancellation to get rid of the sphere itself.
If the party has 7 players and its only Kyuss and Lashonna then economy of actions still puts them in a lot of trouble. I would have some lesser bad guys there to even things out. They should not be BBEG level, but they should be enough of a threat that the party can't just ignore them. That stops the party from focusing fire on Lashonna or Kyuss because that is what I would do if I were a PC. I know you have Kyuss bringing in other monsters, but that means Lashonna is on her own for the time being. That is a waste of a really good ally.
Yup, they have the Talisman and the Sphere. I am very concerned about how this is going to play into the scene. I plan on having Lashonna working with her Pit Fiend and calling in at least three more Blessed Angels, one of them will be equipped with a rod of cancellation, (someone else on the boards use this idea and I like it.)
I am figuring the use of two Wormdrakes, a pit fiend, and the Blessed Angels will be enough to have the party needing to spread their resources. And if the need arises Darl can take advantage of the situation and turn on the party >:-)
I would have the pit fiend do a quickened teleport over to the talisman holder, and then take it with a disarm. Since the pit fiend has reach the player should not get an AoO. You could then have him use his move action to fly back over to the side of team evil and hand it to Kyuss.
If you really want to be mean use the Avasculate spell(s) from the spell compendium, lol. I don't think your players will think it is funny though.
If you really want to be mean use the Avasculate spell(s) from the spell compendium, lol. I don't think your players will think it is funny though.
No they won't - but any GM worth his salt has a raft of these on standby! ^_^
" Welcome to losing percentages of your normal hp total - and watch your INNARDS become terrain features!! BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH!! "