This is not that much of a spoiler and I don't know how to do the nifty spoiler thing, so don't read on if you don't want to.
If a party is trying to be stealthy in their activities, how does one reconcile that with fame points? How does Westcrown learn so much about the party? I don't want to go into too much detail. I find this sort of mechanism in the APs a bit confining.
Zorro
I haven't read the last two books, but the feeling I get is that when the PCs finally get to call in their Fame points, they get to do the big reveal and say "you know the guys that did X, Y, Z, etc? That was us."
ZorroYou've been watching TV again? Didn't the doctor explicitly tell you that anything beside cartoons is "no-no" for you? He even made me swear that I -- as your Chelaxian blood-brother -- would look after you.
And then you broke my heart.... *snif*!
Oh.
I ate the doctor. He was unkind to the voices. And not exactly nice to my colon, either. Next time I eat someone, I'll cook him first. Raw man-flesh is disgusting, despite everything the ghouls say.
But we can talk about it, right, As? We need to have a fun afternoon together, like brothers or best friends. Wanna free some slaves? Or incite people to rise up against their government, that one's always a blast.
That reminds me of the time I was visiting Eodred II in Korvosa, and played truth or dare with his pretty wife. I totally dared her to go have a look at the secret treasuries below their palace.
Ah, fun times!
|
ZorroYou've been watching TV again? Didn't the doctor explicitly tell you that anything beside cartoons is "no-no" for you? He even made me swear that I -- as your Chelaxian blood-brother -- would look after you.
And then you broke my heart.... *snif*!
Oh.
I ate the doctor. He was unkind to the voices. And not exactly nice to my colon, either. Next time I eat someone, I'll cook him first. Raw man-flesh is disgusting, despite everything the ghouls say.
Okay. I didn't like him anyway. We'll find another (is it the seventh or eight? I already lost count...) mister doctor for you. I know what you mean; I always have Little Tim (the Pit Fiend) cook my meat...
|
|
But we can talk about it, right, As? We need to have a fun afternoon together, like brothers or best friends. Wanna free some slaves? Or incite people to rise up against their government, that one's always a blast.
That reminds me of the time I was visiting Eodred II in Korvosa, and played truth or dare with his pretty wife. I totally dared her to go have a look at the secret treasuries below their palace.
Ah, fun times!
Er, I don't know... I was thinking of selling Mairkurion to slavery... that would be fun, right? Or maybe we could do the Dwarven Beard Dance together?
Okay. I didn't like him anyway. We'll find another (is it the seventh or eight? I already lost count...) mister doctor for you.
Make that one teriyaki style!
Er, I don't know... I was thinking of selling Mairkurion to slavery... that would be fun, right?
Well, I'm usually flat out against slavery (as a Protean supporter, I must destroy order wherever I find it), but I think I can make an exception in this case. We must find a buyer who needs someone for unusually degrading manual labour.
Or maybe we could do the Dwarven Beard Dance together?
Or not. I'm not dancing with bearded guys. Or bearded gals.
But bring me a female gnome dressed as a schoolgirl.
To get back to the actual topic for a little while:
Zorro.
Meaning: There's those great heroes everybody knows and loves (except the corrupt government), but since they don't go around telling everyone their real name and identity, the stuff cannot be traced back to their doors.
Just like Zorro. Or Blackjack (to use someone from Golarion as a reference)
|
|
To get back to the actual topic for a little while:
Zorro.
Meaning: There's those great heroes everybody knows and loves (except the corrupt government), but since they don't go around telling everyone their real name and identity, the stuff cannot be traced back to their doors.
Just like Zorro. Or Blackjack (to use someone from Golarion as a reference)
No, not in this one. It says people walk up to them and thank them or marvel at them as vampire slayers, etc. The point behind fame. People are supposed to know who they are. That's why I think it's unrealistic.
Yeah, I had the same disconnect. What I think I'm going to do is go with the Zorro approach as well. In the first adventure the players are asked to act using their disguises. I'm going to make it so that they wear purple cloaks, given to them by Janiveh (Simple cloaks of Resistance). They'll wear these only in their guise as CoW. So they'll wear a mask and these color cloaks. All points go to the purple cloaks. The points accrued from the Sixfold Trial will only come into effect if their undercover persona is linked to their official identity.
If players acquire a magic cloak, Arael will dye it purple ;)...magically
I'm open to suggestions on the color (purple is a palce holder at the moment). Black and red are already taken by House Thrune. Maybe Blue? Green? Any colors associated to Aroden's Westcrown?
No, not in this one. It says people walk up to them and thank them or marvel at them as vampire slayers, etc. The point behind fame. People are supposed to know who they are. That's why I think it's unrealistic.To get back to the actual topic for a little while:
Zorro.
Meaning: There's those great heroes everybody knows and loves (except the corrupt government), but since they don't go around telling everyone their real name and identity, the stuff cannot be traced back to their doors.
Just like Zorro. Or Blackjack (to use someone from Golarion as a reference)
Well, Zorro's mask isn't really fooling anyone, is it? Except villains, of course. Unwritten hero/villain codex ;-)
I resolved this dilemma personally by picturing the "Fame" points as being separated into two categories. There are some actions the PCs take undercover as the Children of Westcrown, and some they do publicly. They are accruing Fame points for their public and private deeds separately.
No one will approach them on the street and say "Good job in defeating the Bastards of Erebus", but they will clearly be recognized as being the actors in the play, etc.
In the final chapter, I'll have the PCs be revealed as the primary participants in the Children of Westcrown, at which point all private and public Fame is reconciled.
Since Fame points aren't relevant until then, it is easiest to track Fame as a single number and not really worry about it much. Just make sure NPCs interact with them directly based on what the PCs have done publicly. It might even be a bit of fun roleplaying for a drunk patron to try to convince the PCs that he is actually a secret member of the Children of Westcrown and is responsible for many of the good deeds being talked about. :-).
My $0.02.
This is kind of funny, because my character in this AP is a vigilante named "The Claw" who everyone knows exactly where he is and how to find him. He actually has an Alchemy & Pottery Shoppe setup with several employees.
I've uh...never actually said his alias.
|
No, not in this one. It says people walk up to them and thank them or marvel at them as vampire slayers, etc. The point behind fame. People are supposed to know who they are. That's why I think it's unrealistic.To get back to the actual topic for a little while:
Zorro.
Meaning: There's those great heroes everybody knows and loves (except the corrupt government), but since they don't go around telling everyone their real name and identity, the stuff cannot be traced back to their doors.
Just like Zorro. Or Blackjack (to use someone from Golarion as a reference)
It is convenient for the authorities to say: "Who did that, it is a mystery to us...?" The PCs are basically Batman anyway, they never directly take on the government or Dottari and they only go head to head with the Hellknights once.
In fact, book by book
Take down a thieves guild
Embarrass Hellknights
survive play
save mayor
slay vampires
clear dangerous monsters from ruin
save city from destruction
free city from shadow beast scourge
slay vampire and allies who plan to overthrow city
restore peace to city
slay heads of thieves guild seeking to topple government
- If only all criminals were so civic minded.
And, to the OP, if you want to use spoilers... when you make a post you can decide to see the BBCode tags.
If you quote my post you will be able to see what I have done to create a spoiler.
|
Recently, between the 2nd and 3rd mods, when they went to the temple of Shelyn to get a really nasty disease combo removed from Rizzardo, a Child of Westcrown, I had them greeted by an acolyte who was just infatuated with them and amazed that they came to this temple. (based on their recent sucess with the play - since they are also an acting troupe, this was even more appropriate) Then they went to see the priest.
I haven't told them, though one skeptical player did ask how the rumors were getting out to begin with, but the Children of Westcrown themselves are spreading the rumors.
Fiosa (*edited, I changed her name to Ilara*) has contacts with the halfling slaves, Yakopulio has contacts in the more criminal world, and some of the others have shops and jobs.
They all just basically say, "did you here about what happened to those Hellknights, or to those tiefling thugs? I heard the people who brought them down were calling themselves the Children of Westcrown."
They pretend they heard it as a rumor, then it gets spread as a rumor.
The PCs don't have to know who is spreading each tale, unless they interrogate their allies, of course.
At the end the people will put their public acts and private acts together and the cat will be out of the bag. That's when the fame points can be used.
Creative Director
|
Treating secretive characters as becoming famous in the same way Zorro, Blackjack, or other "mysterious benefactor" type heroes work is a great solution.
But it's also worth pointing out that becoming famous and well-known is part of "Council of Thieves's" theme. The AP is one where the PCs are SUPPOSED to become famous. If your players aren't all that interested in this route and want to remain anonymous at high level, then you'll need to adjust the AP. Or, honestly, consider running a different AP. We DO print a lot of them, after all! :-)