Under the proposed rules, a first level summoner could very realistically have five or six different summoned beings on the table at the same time.
Ugh. Am I missing something?
yes
level 1 summoner the most summons he could have out right now is 1.
SLA he is only allowed 1 summons, summons last 1 round.
I suggest you read summoner update above.
Ugh. Am I missing something?
Jason has backed off the 1 minute/level duration for summons and reverted it to 1 round/level, so there's not nearly as much summoning stacking any longer.
There are a few problems. At 10th level summoning a dozen or so more creatures implies using the 1d4+1 summons. at 10th level those summons are most commonly worthless at a table because they dont have high enough attacks or abilities to affect the current creature to begin with.
The time problem is not a class problem but a player problem. I have played multiple summoners, as others have on these forums, where i have had 3 or 4 creatures on the table from 3 or 4 summon spells and i still take less time deciding my actions for all creatures than the fighter with 3 or 4 attacks, or the rogue who has to calculate up ungodly amount of sneak attack.
+1
+1There are a few problems. At 10th level summoning a dozen or so more creatures implies using the 1d4+1 summons. at 10th level those summons are most commonly worthless at a table because they dont have high enough attacks or abilities to affect the current creature to begin with.
The time problem is not a class problem but a player problem. I have played multiple summoners, as others have on these forums, where i have had 3 or 4 creatures on the table from 3 or 4 summon spells and i still take less time deciding my actions for all creatures than the fighter with 3 or 4 attacks, or the rogue who has to calculate up ungodly amount of sneak attack.
+2
+2+1There are a few problems. At 10th level summoning a dozen or so more creatures implies using the 1d4+1 summons. at 10th level those summons are most commonly worthless at a table because they dont have high enough attacks or abilities to affect the current creature to begin with.
The time problem is not a class problem but a player problem. I have played multiple summoners, as others have on these forums, where i have had 3 or 4 creatures on the table from 3 or 4 summon spells and i still take less time deciding my actions for all creatures than the fighter with 3 or 4 attacks, or the rogue who has to calculate up ungodly amount of sneak attack.
+3
+3+2+1There are a few problems. At 10th level summoning a dozen or so more creatures implies using the 1d4+1 summons. at 10th level those summons are most commonly worthless at a table because they dont have high enough attacks or abilities to affect the current creature to begin with.
The time problem is not a class problem but a player problem. I have played multiple summoners, as others have on these forums, where i have had 3 or 4 creatures on the table from 3 or 4 summon spells and i still take less time deciding my actions for all creatures than the fighter with 3 or 4 attacks, or the rogue who has to calculate up ungodly amount of sneak attack.
+4
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I missed the tweaks, sorry.
Unfortunately, the fix -- shifting summonings from one minute back to one round -- wrecks the 'fun' aspect of the class.
Summoned allies that only last one round, bleh. How about this as a tweak:
Summoners can deploy only one summoned creature per round, in addition to the eidolon. Summon Monster spells work normally. However, when using Summon Monster as a class spell-like ability, summoned creatures last for one round per caster level + the one round for each point of the Summoner's Charisma modifier.
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Also been discussed several times on multiple threads
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serious gamers
And there is the biggest problem facing all the classes! It's a game where you pretend to be some one else and save the day! Anyone who has watched The Gamers: Dorkness Rising movie knows what happens to a game when people are too serious.
Being just serious enough to keep the game on track is fine.
Whiners get no pie.
I hear that if you read all the forum post your head will exploded in a 10' radius of rethoric and goo.
I am posting here not because this is the only example, but because it's the one I've seen more recently.
Can we please desist from the hyperbolic thread titles in the play-testing forums? They are really only appropriate in the OFF TOPICS forum. Please make your titles specific and clear, and your criticisms constructive. The designers are hard-working human beings who do a lot more for us than they are paid for, and they deserve the best treatment we can give them, as they strive to do what very few people are doing, and in this line of work, are perhaps the only people who do so: include their customers in the development process.
Again, it is rude to the designers, and we their fans, who are very fond of them as well as their work, do not appreciate it. I appreciate everyone who does their part to help keep this unique place a friendly online community, and perhaps even make it friendlier.
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lastknightleft -
no way can i read all the posts on this board. there are more than 4300 posts and hundreds of threads for this topic alone.
in future, when someone has an idea or input, i would suggest responding to the substance...or linking to the relevant discussion spot.
the tone of your responses here seems sort of 'if you can't keep up, shut up.'
am i misreading you?
if that is your point, that means folks like me, serious gamers with limited time, just can't participate.
marsh
It's more the fact that what you are saying isn't hard to find.
I'm not even talking ten minutes of review of the threads probably would have yielded at least one or two threads discussing it. I have no problem with people posting their opinions, but I get the impression that you didn't even try to look to see if there had been any threads already dealing with these issues, and when told of the summoner update you then came back and suggested something that's been suggested several times in that same thread. Granted it's a large thread, but you could have just as easily posted your response there as well.
