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I guess it's somewhat fitting that the first preview of the new classes is the Oracle, because even if your not on the bandwagon with the name, what other class would be more suited to have a blog from the future.
And my prediction is this:
And lovin it !
; P
I love the speaking in tongues bit. It's technically a hindrance, but it's got enough flavor to be a cool role-playing opportunity rather than a pain in the butt limitation.
What I've seen of the oracle looks interesting, although I'm not a fan of the sorcerer spell progression.
The summoner sounds like it could be cool, but the cavalier and inquisitor don't sound very exciting to me. The alchemist might turn out to be interesting, and I like the idea of an arcane/divine base class.
My major reservation is that these classes will be designed with the thought: "We can't make them too good, or else people will accuse us of power creep." In which case we may end up with an oracle that's like a watered-down cleric, or a summoner that's like a watered-down druid.
It'll be interesting to see the results!
I am not quite on the cover art!
My brother is also not quite on the cover art.
Ahh my barrister is burning some woodmans hut to the ground as everyone else desprately searchs for clues.
Good times!
Thanks for DMing Patto.
And to Jason.
Come back to us you know you want to...
One of us, one of us....
The Oracle and Inquisitor sound very very nice. As does the Templar. All divine classes interestingly enough
The Oracle and Inquisitor sound very very nice. As does the Templar. All divine classes interestingly enough
The templar does sound nice, although I believe it's more of a class variant than a class by itself.
In general, I prefer variants on existing classes rather than creating a new class from scratch. For instance, from what I've seen of the oracle, it looks like it would have made a good cleric/druid variant using the Spontaneous Divine Casting rules from Unearthed Arcana (along with the ability to swap out Channel Energy or Wild Shape for other neat stuff). And the Inquisitor might have made a good ranger variant.
The templar does sound nice, although I believe it's more of a class variant than a class by itself.
Yes. I believe they have said as much
oooh, witch witch witch witch witch.
oooh, bloat, bloat, bloat, bloat, bloat.
I know that sounds like an insult but from me, it's not. I don't really mind the bloat. I like new classes.
Inquisitors? Excellent. They appreciate that knowledge is power, and that Knowledge (The Planes) means you know exactly where to put a silver glaive to make an arch-fiend squirm.
However, I trust it will be made suitably clear that witches are, by and large, even more evil than assassins - and should be terminated with extreme prejudice and all possible speed by all true heroes.
Idea for the summoner's final name: Usher.
are Inquisitors going to be diety specific? i.e. Iquisitors of Erastil and whatnot
The oracle as a class has some interesting ideas. The name though, still does not inspire me to envision anything other than a prophet predicting the future. It just doesn't work. I much prefer the bandied about Mystic as a name for the class, because Waracles and Stroracles and what-not are just not how I at all envision the word. Sorry, Paizo, but you've got decades of precedent you're going against here.
I much prefer the bandied about Mystic as a name for the class
And I'm still desperately hoping I can make it to publication quality before someone else snipes that name and I have to find a new one for my entire subsystem! >.<
I think the Oracle name is perfect. It does inspire the "Spontaneous Divine" tone, and adding features like tongues only deepens the flavor. A prophet-like Oracle, with all their divinations, may be one kind of Oracle, but this class covers a much wider breadth than that. At least they're not naming it something REALLY dumb, like "Favored Soul" or some nonsense. :) ...You could just as well argue that the Witch should be a female-only class, based on historical connotations; but there is room for interpretation with all these classes.
Speaking of the Witch, I love the idea of sharing divine/arcane spells. I imagine the Witch would have to prepare spells, since two spell sources make for a lot of spells on the spell list, but spontaneous casting seem more the Witch's flavor. While the familiars are a cool touch, I hope they're not overdone.
The Inquisitor does fit a nice niche. Depending on the options presented, this seems like it could be a great Urban Ranger or a PFRPG interpretation of the Avenger.
The Caviler seems to fill a nice hole as well. Though, I will begrudgingly admit that the name isn't one that resounds fully with me, I'm sure after talking about it for a year I'll get used to it. This feels like a Knight, Marshall or PFRPG interpretation of the Warlord.
Not eagerly awaiting the Summoner or Alchemist, but they certainly do a nice job of rounding out the new base classes.
Z
Only their most recent image...
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The oracle as a class has some interesting ideas. The name though, still does not inspire me to envision anything other than a prophet predicting the future. It just doesn't work. I much prefer the bandied about Mystic as a name for the class, because Waracles and Stroracles and what-not are just not how I at all envision the word. Sorry, Paizo, but you've got decades of precedent you're going against here.
Dammit! You just put the playtest back ANOTHER day! ;-)
Makes me wonder how witch stacks with Mystic Theurge...they might qualify for the prestige class without even trying...
And what would be their benefit? :D
And if we don't like the Oracle name... why not brainstorm a new one?
At the very least, the capstone isn't anything to sneeze at anymore...Makes me wonder how witch stacks with Mystic Theurge...they might qualify for the prestige class without even trying...And what would be their benefit? :D
Well two spells in one action 1/day... waht do we know about the capstone of the Withch?
Well two spells in one action 1/day... waht do we know about the capstone of the Withch?
It will come at level 20 or not at all.
That's about it, I think. :)
Makes me wonder how witch stacks with Mystic Theurge...they might qualify for the prestige class without even trying...
perhaps, but maybe it wouldn't be worth taking the PrC
And if we don't like the Oracle name... why not brainstorm a new one?
We have. The folks at Paizo are insistent that Oracle is it, no debate. They say it conjures the right image to mind, but the majority of posters seem to disagree. *shrug* Not much I can do about it, but I'll admit that I actually like the name "favored soul" as the name for a class indicative of a character who was marked by their god, gaining divine abilities without necessarily trying. It implies that they're blessed by their deity, which is a large part of the class's flavor.
I guess I'll have to see what the other Oracle focus abilities are, to see if the Strength Oracle or War Oracle actually feel anything like an oracle to me.
but the majority of posters seem to disagree.
Not true, I've seen lots of people note their support for the name, if its a majority against thats because people are more likely to complain than compliment, especially in this case.
Also, James Jacobs has repeated himself on the reasons many of the contstantly repeated alternates, and rather than come up with new alternates, the same ones are repeated again and again over several threads.
Like Exemplar, etc.
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And if we don't like the Oracle name... why not brainstorm a new one?We have. The folks at Paizo are insistent that Oracle is it, no debate. They say it conjures the right image to mind, but the majority of posters seem to disagree. *shrug* Not much I can do about it, but I'll admit that I actually like the name "favored soul" as the name for a class indicative of a character who was marked by their god, gaining divine abilities without necessarily trying. It implies that they're blessed by their deity, which is a large part of the class's flavor.
I guess I'll have to see what the other Oracle focus abilities are, to see if the Strength Oracle or War Oracle actually feel anything like an oracle to me.
And there goes another day of playtesting. *sigh* Can you criticise the name after the playtest's started?
Poor tejón, Mystic's been in play for years as a Dragonlance spontaneous divine caster. (Though I'll admit the class is isolated enough I doubt anybody, myself included, would complain if something PF designed were to steal it's name, if it were PF designed well)
We only play in the Dragonlance setting, so it's going to end up being called the Mystic regardless of what they name it ;)
No offense, but could everyone quit discussing the Oracle name?
Every single thread that comes up discussing the new classes gets completely bogged down and inundated with what is ultimately a pointless discussion. I mean, really, why would you continue to bring this up? We all know what the consensus is on the matter and we all know what the developers have said in response.
Conversely, could we get the powers that be to start deleting some of these posts?
Sorry, but it continuities to show a certain initial reaction factor. It is good that Paizo be aware of this type of response to name. It gives them a chance to help sell it better.
The name does carry an element of baggage as Paizo is really pushing it beyond many of the established widely know archetypes, especially the most common one where it is exclusively about foreknowledge and prophecy. Once you start looking at them as moral messengers of gods(divine power), and not just for prophecies, it starts to make more sense. But I think that fact may need to be called out a bit stronger in their future descriptions; instead of saying stuff like Hercules is an example of an Oracle of Strength. That only makes it more confusing as Hercules doesn't really give prophecies or that much advice. However add in the blurb that class gets divine advice then it makes more sense. Hercules gets divinely advised Strength (no totally accurate but closer to the mark).
Plus, they have used the name oracle in the campaign setting book and it discusses (at least the one that comes to mind) robe wearing, seer like orcs
Still don't like the name of "Oracle". What was wrong with "Favored Soul"? WotC doesn't own the name, just the statistics.
Now, is there an Oracle for each type of focus? I see this one is Fire. Can we assume one of each domain is available such as Healing, Life, Earth, Destruction, etc?
As for the other classes, the Witch. I hate classes with separate spell lists. Because that means I have to analyze each and every spell outside the core books to see if it matches the class concept and it's not easy. Which was why I enjoy Spellthief, because they tell you what spells by listing them by schools of magic instead of individual spells.
Might I suggest the writers of the Witch please inform guidelines in the book of what sorts of spells can be added to the Witch's spell list? Or better yet, just have their spells grouped as schools of magic?
Might I suggest the writers of the Witch please inform guidelines in the book of what sorts of spells can be added to the Witch's spell list? Or better yet, just have their spells grouped as schools of magic?
+infinity
Please, please, Paizo, if you do make classes with unique spell lists, either support those unique spell lists through all future products, or structure the spell lists so that it's easy to determine which spells count (ie, "All abjuration, conjuration, and enchantment spells from the wizard/sorcerer list", etc). Unique lists that were unsupported through future products was one of my pet peeves with most of the otherwise-interesting unique casters WotC produced.
I like new spells as much as the next guy, but honestly, does it make a class so unattractive if it doesn't have a constant new stream of "toys" being generated for it? Especially when those classes most likely will still be able to use new feats, magic items, etc. that come out in future products?
I like new spells as much as the next guy, but honestly, does it make a class so unattractive if it doesn't have a constant new stream of "toys" being generated for it? Especially when those classes most likely will still be able to use new feats, magic items, etc. that come out in future products?
Yes. Imagine if they didn't list any new Fighter Bonus Feats in any Pathfinder products past the core rulebook. Wouldn't that be irritating and detract from the desire to play a Fighter? EDIT: Actually, even better. Imagine if they had all kinds of new feats that look perfect for Fighters, but have the text "Requirements: No levels in Fighter".
Please, please, Paizo, if you do make classes with unique spell lists, either support those unique spell lists through all future products, or structure the spell lists so that it's easy to determine which spells count (ie, "All abjuration, conjuration, and enchantment spells from the wizard/sorcerer list", etc).
The last suggestion is the best, IMO. It makes ten times more sense than picking out a bunch of wizard enchantment spells and segregating them into a separate spell list.
Now, is there an Oracle for each type of focus? I see this one is Fire. Can we assume one of each domain is available such as Healing, Life, Earth, Destruction, etc?
That would be my assumption
but the majority of posters seem to disagree.Not true, I've seen lots of people note their support for the name, if its a majority against thats because people are more likely to complain than compliment, especially in this case.
Also, James Jacobs has repeated himself on the reasons many of the contstantly repeated alternates, and rather than come up with new alternates, the same ones are repeated again and again over several threads.
Like Exemplar, etc.
I also disagree that it's a "majority" ... it seems instead to be the same voices over and over ad naseum in every thread that mentions the Oracle.
We get it, some folks don't like it. Saying it a ton does not make it a majority :)
And to be counted (again) I like the name Oracle :)
but the majority of posters seem to disagree.Not true, I've seen lots of people note their support for the name, if its a majority against thats because people are more likely to complain than compliment, especially in this case.
Also, James Jacobs has repeated himself on the reasons many of the contstantly repeated alternates, and rather than come up with new alternates, the same ones are repeated again and again over several threads.
Like Exemplar, etc.
I also disagree that it's a "majority" ... it seems instead to be the same voices over and over ad naseum in every thread that mentions the Oracle.
We get it, some folks don't like it. Saying it a ton does not make it a majority :)
And to be counted (again) I like the name Oracle :)
Here, here!
And if we don't like the Oracle name... why not brainstorm a new one?We have. The folks at Paizo are insistent that Oracle is it, no debate. They say it conjures the right image to mind, but the majority of posters seem to disagree. *shrug* Not much I can do about it, but I'll admit that I actually like the name "favored soul" as the name for a class indicative of a character who was marked by their god, gaining divine abilities without necessarily trying. It implies that they're blessed by their deity, which is a large part of the class's flavor.
I guess I'll have to see what the other Oracle focus abilities are, to see if the Strength Oracle or War Oracle actually feel anything like an oracle to me.
Personally I have nothing against the oracle, but seriously... it's just a class name with which we refer to a set of mechanics. If a group comes to town and asks for a wizard, mage, sorcerer, witch, ... they'll be probably sent to the same person anyway. It depends on the players and DM what will they refer to themselves and the NPCs.
Am I going to play a sorcerer, or a Mage of the Rose? An oracle of war or Nicodemos, the holy scourge of Gorum?
Here, here!but the majority of posters seem to disagree.Not true, I've seen lots of people note their support for the name, if its a majority against thats because people are more likely to complain than compliment, especially in this case.
Also, James Jacobs has repeated himself on the reasons many of the contstantly repeated alternates, and rather than come up with new alternates, the same ones are repeated again and again over several threads.
Like Exemplar, etc.
I also disagree that it's a "majority" ... it seems instead to be the same voices over and over ad naseum in every thread that mentions the Oracle.
We get it, some folks don't like it. Saying it a ton does not make it a majority :)
And to be counted (again) I like the name Oracle :)
I also like the name Oracle, but never felt the need to really jump out and scream it. My players also like it, too. I guess I'm just disagreeing that the "majority" of players seem to disagree with it, though I think a modest amount do dislike it.
Vocal minority vs. vast majority.
We're talking prohibition here...
There is actually no proof who is the majority and who is the minority. All we know is who is more vocal
There is also no acounting for the moderatly ambivilent, such as myself. I do think a better less missleading name could have been selected, however at the same time it does seem like it will workout in this context and perhaps bring about a new fantasy perseption without having to break
As to the named favored soul, that always sounded like the gods spoiled step-kid to an not a servent. Oracle at least sounds like some who is propperly respectful servent.
I'm interested to see how th custom list of the witch will be supported. I know the mechanics of some of the later custom casters in WotC books seemed to work fairly well. Or like Sorcerers, allow the class to add one or two spells to the ones they know every so often from thematicly appropriate schools.
Speaking of Witches who wants to do a Pathfinder in Oz mini-setting?
There is actually no proof who is the majority and who is the minority. All we know is who is more vocalVocal minority vs. vast majority.
We're talking prohibition here...
Exactly,
I have 4 players (well, 3 players and a GM since I'm taking a break from running the game and someone else stepped up). But, of the 5 of us, one doesn't care, one likes it, one thinks it's 'meh' and two think it's horrible (myself included). I'm the only one of the 5 that posts here. Does that mean 40% hate it, 20% think it's meh, 20% like it, and 20% don't care one way or the other? No, that's just how my group broke down. Some groups might hate it with a passion as a whole, and some might think it's the best thing since sliced bread.Paizo has asked for feedback on their books. If they don't like that feedback, they can go to a closed development cycle. If this is going to be an open development, then people who don't like (or who do like) need to comment. Nobody has told the people that like it 'Shut up! You are teh sux!'. So how about we don't tell people who don't like it to shut up until it's published and over with, ok?
Note : That last part was not directed at MerrikCale, just had a good post to respond to and wanted to get that last paragraph off my chest. :)