1) Roll 3d6 for all 6 stats, do not arrange. Roll 3 sets this way.
2) Pick the set you like, but you can't re-arrange the stats. This represents your character's raw potential if the character had been grown in a vat somewhere.
3) Apply point buy (25 for my group) to the set you rolled. This represents the character's upbringing, events in their life, and personal training. You get 2 extra points to spend for every stat below 6 and 2 less for every stat above 16.
This rolling method will rarely produce poor characters.
FYI: 3d6, roll 3 times, pick best averages to 13 pathfinder point-buy points, so that makes your total system average to 38 point-buy points.
FYI: 3d6, roll 3 times, pick best averages to 13 pathfinder point-buy points, so that makes your total system average to 38 point-buy points.1) Roll 3d6 for all 6 stats, do not arrange. Roll 3 sets this way.
2) Pick the set you like, but you can't re-arrange the stats. This represents your character's raw potential if the character had been grown in a vat somewhere.
3) Apply point buy (25 for my group) to the set you rolled. This represents the character's upbringing, events in their life, and personal training. You get 2 extra points to spend for every stat below 6 and 2 less for every stat above 16.
This rolling method will rarely produce poor characters.
What is the point buy average for rolling 4d6 dropping the lowest die SEVEN times, then dropping the lowest score, then rolling 1d3+1 for a pool of bonus points to add to a score or two?
Just curious.
FYI: 3d6, roll 3 times, pick best averages to 13 pathfinder point-buy points, so that makes your total system average to 38 point-buy points.
Yeah, but you're not taking into account whether the player has a specific character in mind when they roll. If you're just taking the best stats and making a character, then it seems crazed, but if you've got to buy things that came out rather low, then it's more reasonable.
And for the record, how did you come up with that number? 3d6 can be EXTREMELY unforgiving, even with multiple choices.
But I like the stats I've seen so far. I don't have a problem with it. However, I haven't had anybody roll amazing for the key ability scores they wanted either.
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We used to use a similar method to the OP's DM, but you had to stop rolling when you hit two 15's or better in a set. At that point, you could take an earlier set of rolls or the one you stopped at. This prevented you from having disasterous scores, but also limited the "quest for the amazing set of scores" dice rolling marathon.
After my last mini-campaign in which some characters had really high stats and some devastatingly low rolls, I opted to move to the point buy system. Its less fun than rolling, but more fair to those people who seem cursed with bad dice luck. When I started my RotRL AP recently I added the wrinkle of reducing the point buy a few points at 1st level, then awarding characters ability increases over the next several levels, depending on what stats they used the most during the adventure. This way it rewards the characters with higher scores than they might get with a straight point buy, which makes up for the fact you held back a few pts at 1st level.
I always find score generation threads to be very entertaining, and I thought the Asha Greyjoy grid method was particularly interesting. I might just used that next time we start over again.
Let's try a very simple method: order your abilities by importance; roll 3d6 six times in that order; you can substitute your first ability with a 15, the second with a 14, the third with a 13. There is no more chances to get 16+ in your primary ability that in a 3d6 straight. You also have a chance of having a good roll in any of your abilities, including your dump ones. And it is no way overpowered.
I like this. I think I'll try it out next time I DM.
There was a crazy 2nd edition book that used to have different rolling systems in it. In one of them, if you wanted to play a specific class, certain classes got a certain number of dice for each stat. If you still didn't meet the prereqs, you had to choose a different class but keep the stats. I think Paladin had something like 5d6 in its Charisma. LOL.
There was a crazy 2nd edition book that used to have different rolling systems in it. In one of them, if you wanted to play a specific class, certain classes got a certain number of dice for each stat. If you still didn't meet the prereqs, you had to choose a different class but keep the stats. I think Paladin had something like 5d6 in its Charisma. LOL.
I thought that was the 1E Unearthed Arcana myself. I'd forgotten all about that.
That was it. It was a 1e book but the rolling methods still applied even though we were doing 2e. Can you imagine gunning for Paladin in 1e or 2e and rolling like a 16 charisma, so you had to play a freakin FIGHTER with a 16 wasted in cha??? LOLZ!
That was it. It was a 1e book but the rolling methods still applied even though we were doing 2e. Can you imagine gunning for Paladin in 1e or 2e and rolling like a 16 charisma, so you had to play a freakin FIGHTER with a 16 wasted in cha??? LOLZ!
Don't have to imagine it, I did it. I even made myself Lawful Good. The running joke is that everyone would see me and think I was a paladin-probably because some god thought it was funny to illuminate me with a holy aura from time to time. Good laughs. I was the personable one in that group, back when diplomacy was decided by how good a talker you were, before bards came along and converted your enemies to your worshippers with a d20 . . .
I prefer point buy because of disparity. I rolled up Shadrach (my evil alter-ego) 4d6 drop the lowest re-roll 1's. 16, 14, 17, 13, 14, 12. One of our other players roled 10, 15, 10, 12, 10, 14, 10. Both playable characters, but Shad far out did Qi'Tai in general ability.
As to optimization. I ran an Eberron game with point buy and attempts to 'optimize' came out sideways. The Warforged Artificer had the highest Charisma, and the rest of the party had charismas in the 6-10 range. While they were all extremely good in their specialization the party was hampered outside of it.
Cleric: Can I use knowlege (religion)? I've an Intelligence of 10, it's all I could afford to get the 14 strength and 16 wisdom.
Rogue: What? I have to bluff? My Charisma's 6, that's how my dex is 18!
Ranger: I'll use Animal Empathy on the dire ape. It's Charisma based? Awww crap.
Artificer: I've the highest Charisma, I'll be the spokesman. Oh wait, I've no social skills though. I need to lift what? I've only a strength of 10.
Get them in social situations, they were doomed. Did I mention I was running Eberron?
I fully understand. My half orc mage in house thorashk is the spokesperson for the group.
I rolled some very nice stats and after race mods I ended up with 2-18's in str&con. A 16 in int.(it was an 18) A 9 in wis and dex and A 12 cha.I have the highest stats in the party and the highest charisma.
I am the only one that puts ranks in diplomacy,bluff,sense motive,and know. nobility.
The fighter of the group has a str of 12 and a con of 14. All his other stats are much lower. I wade into melee after casting heroics(choseing martial weapons as my feat to get rid of the -4 penalty) and use my great axe to just as much effectiveness as he does.
The spirit shaman is even worse. He has 6 str and put his major stat into dex for ac, he runs from melee at all costs and sits back and summons griffons or dire badgers. He does heal us if we drop but he uses his low stats as a crutch to never fight(he dosnt even carry any weapons)and with his dex he could do ok with ranged stuff.
With this type of party My half orc is the one seen dressed in the finest of attire attending the social season in sharn,going to the theather and being seen by all the notables while my companions are down in the cogs trying to not get mugged.
We enjoy the random roll method. I rolled well and after 3 times of rolling unplayable charecters these guys barely rolled basic commoners.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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There was a crazy 2nd edition book that used to have different rolling systems in it. In one of them, if you wanted to play a specific class, certain classes got a certain number of dice for each stat. If you still didn't meet the prereqs, you had to choose a different class but keep the stats. I think Paladin had something like 5d6 in its Charisma. LOL.
That's actually not far from the default system I was using for years.
Step One -- Assign 28 dice among your stats any way you please.
Step Two -- Roll each stat. Take the sum of the best three dice.
Step Two - a -- If you roll more than three 6's, each additional 6 counts as a +1. So, rolling nine dice and getting five 6's, would generate a score of 20.
Step Two - b -- If you have fewer than three dice committed to an attribute, each "missing" die is replaced by a d3.
Step Two - c -- If you roll more than three dice for an attribute, and you roll a pair of 1's, you can re-roll one of those 1's (and discard the other).
Step Three -- Apply racial modifiers. If the campaign is starting at 4th Level or higher, apply stat increase.
For example. Let's say you've volunteered to play a cleric in my campaign. You know that the campaign is going to be heavy with undead, so you'll want a good Charisma for turning.
STR - 4 dice [2,6,3,5] = (14)
DEX - 3 dice [6,1,1] = (8; I can't reroll the 1's, because that would leave me with fewer than three dice)
CON - 4 dice [1,3,6,1]; reroll the 1's = [3,6,6] = (15)
INT - 3 dice [4,2,4] = (10)
WIS - 7 dice [4,4,5,3,4,6,6] = (17)
CHA - 7 dice [1,1,5,2,5,1,3]; reroll two 1's = [5,2,5,1,3,1]; reroll two 1's = [5,2,5,3,2] = (13)
That seems like a reasonable character.
Step One Cut a hole in the box...
Wait, that's not right... hehe. Seriously, that sounds like a neat system, though I'd nix the +1 thingy for my campaign.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Seriously, that sounds like a neat system, though I'd nix the +1 thingy for my campaign.
The "+1" rarely comes up. It's a lure, to tempt certain personality types to throw a whole lot of dice into a particularly desirable stat.
STR - 2 dice - [2,3,1] = 6
DEX - 18 dice -[6,3,6,3,2,5,4,1,6,3,4,6,4,1,2,2,3]; reroll a 1 to get a 6 (woot!) = 20
CON - 2 dice - [4,6,1] = 11
INT - 2 dice - [1,4,1] = 6
WIS - 2 dice- [3,6,2] = 11
CHA - 2 dice - [4,4,3] = 11
Well, that rogue probably won't last too long.
I have also this method that I have (almost) finished recently:
1) Point-buy (10 points). You chose here the minimum score of each ability. Min. score is 6.
2) Point-buy (25 points). You chose here the "target" score of each ability. Min score is 10; also target score has to be at least equal than minimum score.
3) For every ability, and depending of the minimum score, roll:
Min.Score / Dice
17-18 / 1d2-1d2
16 / 1d3-1d3
15 / 1d4-1d4
14 / 1d5-1d5
13 / 1d6-1d6
11-12 / 1d8-1d8
6-10 / 1d10-1d10
4) Add the result to the target score of each ability.
5) If the final score is lower than the minimum score or greater than 18, repeat the roll (3).
Example: We want to generate a fighter
Point-buy 10 (minimum scores)
Str 15 7 points
Dex 14 5 points
Con 15 7 points
Int 8 -2 points
Wis 9 -1 points
Cha 6 -6 points
Point-buy 25 (target scores)
Str 16 10 points
Dex 15 7 points
Con 15 7 points
Int 10 0 points
Wis 11 1 points
Cha 10 0 points
We roll:
Str --> 1d4-1d4 --> 2-1 = +1 --> 16+1 = 17
Dex --> 1d5-1d5 --> 1-5 = -4 --> 15-4 = 11
As 11 is lower than 14 (min score) we roll again
Dex --> 1d5-1d5 --> 1-2 = -1 --> 15-1 = 14
Con --> 1d4-1d4 --> 4-1 = +3 --> 15+3 = 18
Int --> 1d10-1d10 --> 6-6 = 0 --> 10+0 = 10
Wis --> 1d10-1d10 --> 2-4 = -2 --> 11-2 = 9
Cha --> 1d10-1d10 --> 8-4 = +4 --> 10+4 = 14
Very high stat rolls are statistically unlikely, but they do happen. My second AD&D 1e character had straight 18s. Funny thing is, the DM flat-out asked if I was using loaded dice in front of the other players. My reply was "They're your dice."
My suggestion is, keep a quiet eye on the other player's dice rolls. If he's a little too lucky a little too often, say something to the DM.
That was it. It was a 1e book but the rolling methods still applied even though we were doing 2e. Can you imagine gunning for Paladin in 1e or 2e and rolling like a 16 charisma, so you had to play a freakin FIGHTER with a 16 wasted in cha??? LOLZ!
It was and the Paladin got 9d6 for cha, if you missed the min pre req you got the pre req you did not have the change to another class. So a paladin who managed to roll a 16 on 9d6 would get it bumped up to 17, also the paladin was a subclass of the Cavalier by this time and would not become a fighter anyway, but a Cavalier.
Quote from Unearthed Arcana
After the player’s selection of a class is approved, he or she rolls a certain number of six-sided dice for each ability score to be generated, as indicated on the following table. The best three die rolls for each ability are added together to produce the score. (For example, a fighter’s strength is determined by rolling 9d6 and keeping the three highest results.) If the total of the three highest die rolls is below the minimum requirement for an ability in a certain class, then the player takes the minimum number (e.g., 15 for a monk’s strength) as the character’s ability score. Similarly, if a rolled score is greater than the maximum allowable (such as for a barbarian’s wisdom), then the score is lowered to the maximum number.
Ah HA
Ah HA
I used the "super" chart as we called it a few times, with some really odd ball results. There was also a published version for multiclasses and the oriental adventures classes but those were in Dragon Mag, which I have at home.
I still recall the Fighter with the 14 strength and 18 int that my pal rolled, and my fighter with 18 strength but 9 con.....made for some interesting games. But it was fun, and could produce some wicked good stats. Also note that in 1st ed both the Cavalier and Paladin could up their stats as they leveled, other classes could not. Made those two very powerful in the end game but the Paladin required stats were incredible. 15 str, 15 dex, 15 con, 10 int, 13 wis, and 17 cha, he would up every stat except int and comeliness each level by 2d10 percent.
The spirit shaman is even worse. He has 6 str and put his major stat into dex for ac, he runs from melee at all costs and sits back and summons griffons or dire badgers. He does heal us if we drop but he uses his low stats as a crutch to never fight(he dosnt even carry any weapons)and with his dex he could do ok with ranged stuff.
So, wait... you're saying that due to a low physical attribute, he's roleplaying a fear of physical combat? Philistine!
Step One Cut a hole in the box...
Every single holiday, it's a grick in a box...
The spirit shaman is even worse. He has 6 str and put his major stat into dex for ac, he runs from melee at all costs and sits back and summons griffons or dire badgers. He does heal us if we drop but he uses his low stats as a crutch to never fight(he dosnt even carry any weapons)and with his dex he could do ok with ranged stuff.So, wait... you're saying that due to a low physical attribute, he's roleplaying a fear of physical combat? Philistine!
Step One Cut a hole in the box...Every single holiday, it's a grick in a box...
Exactly Tejon. My DM got tired of him always running from combat too so he took me and the fighter out in the first two rounds of combat with a storm elemental and forced the cleric/warlock and sprit shaman into combat. It took'em forever but they finally realised that just because combat isnt what you built your charecter for doesnt mean you CAN'T do it, you just may not be as good as say the fighter or the party half-orc rouge/mage. It was kindda funny after awhile because the elemental coudnt hit the shaman and the shaman couldnt do damage to the elemental after he ran out of his chastise spirts ability. The warlock was plinking away at the 6HD storm elemental for 2-5 points of damage per eldritched blast and the shaman was being defensive with a 26 AC at 4th lvl. We lost some crew members but we survived. Our DM dosnt go for cowardly PC's and the players finally learned that.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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This just seems bizarre. What's the point of rolling if you get to roll indefinitely until you get one you like?
This is the old school way of doing it. Pretty much every 3d6 stat video game of old did this (Wizardry, etc from 1980s.)
You just keep clicking "roll" until you get 2 or 3 17/18's. Then you happy. I remember doing this for hours while a teen until I got myself no low rows and two or more max rolls.
In my games, I do 4d6 with 6 (total) chances to reroll an individual die (roughly equal to 5d6 drop lowest if you reroll once a roll.) If you don't like what you got you can take a 32 point buy (in 3.5) or a 22 point buy in 3.p games.
I have not read every post, but I say this:
There is a reason, that the possibility exists to buy ability scores for points, so that luck is not a factor at all.
And there is nothing next to impossible. Every result of a dice roll or combination thereof is possible however unlikely. I myself witnessed a player rolling 4 20s in a row, the possibility of that is 1 : 160 000. So maybe the other players were simply lucky. After all there are people winning in lotteries which odds are all the more against the player.
Greetz
Ganzir