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Not that people are likely to play Universalist Wizards any more, but I do have a question about Hand of the Apprentice that I'm looking for some guidance on. Mainly I'm trying to figure out if range increment and thrown weapon penalties apply. Here's the line that I'm considering.
This attack is treated as a ranged attack with a thrown weaponDoes this mean that a wizard carrying a quarterstaff, attacking a creature 30 feet away would take -8 in penalties to use HotA (-4 for throwing a weapon not normally thrown, and -4 for two 10' range increment penalties).
Or, does HotA allow you to throw any weapon without penalty up to 30 feet away?
I can see arguments for both points of view, although I'm leaning towards the latter since HotA is not nearly as overpowering as it was before.
The stat block for Ezren in Crypt of the Everflame supports your second option, which is the way I read it, too. However, even though it's not stated explicitly, I would still apply non-proficiency penalties.
Mike
I think the point of the inclusion of that text is to differentiate that the ability isn't a melee attack. Things like a -4 penalty for attacking a target engaged in melee for instance should apply since this is a ranged attack. If someone is prone and thereby gains a +4 bonus to AC versus ranged attacks, Hand of the Apprentice qualifies.
The ability itself has a range, not a range-increment. Thus I'd say you make your attacks anywhere from 0ft to 30ft without penalty. You could pick up Point Blank Shot, and Precise Shot and (unless there's specific wording regarding them working only on bows that I'm forgetting), they'll work.
Also as an amusing aside, the Deflect Arrows feat can negate this ability entirely.
I'm going to have to play a half-orc wizard with a greataxe, then!
Question: Does a weapon attack by HotA use the critical threat of the weapon normally?
or that of the thrown rules?
It is possible to throw a weapon that isn't designed to be thrown (that is, a melee weapon that doesn't have a numeric entry in the Range column on Table: Weapons), and a character who does so takes a –4 penalty on the attack roll. Throwing a light or one-handed weapon is a standard action, while throwing a two-handed weapon is a full-round action. Regardless of the type of weapon, such an attack scores a threat only on a natural 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit.> Such a weapon has a range increment of 10 feet.
also, would the standard action of HotA trump the Full-Round action if I use a two-handed weapon?
also, would the standard action of HotA trump the Full-Round action if I use a two-handed weapon?
No. You aren't throwing it. You're using a Supernatural ability to levitate the sucker, it is a standard action to activate Hand of the Apprentice. Now if you want to do a normal throwing attack then be my guest.
I'm going to open myself to criticism here, and I guess I fully deserve it.
If you're thinking of how HotA works as an attack then you need to reconsider playing a Wizard.
If you find yourself where using HotA is your best option, reconsider playing a Wizard.
If you find yourself with no spells left to cast, reread Scribe Scroll and reconsider that MW crossbow or Amulet of Natural Armour - you should've made or bought a lot more scrolls. No wizard should ever be without something arcane to do. Wizards are far to fun to play as wizards without trying to be a weapon-wielder as well.
Commence attacks.
If you're thinking of how HotA works as an attack then you need to reconsider playing a Wizard.
Even accepting this, the answer to the question is relevant to eldritch knights who want to, say, hurl +5 brilliant energy corrosive burst thundering wounding falchions at people.
Commence attacks.
This is not the Advice forum.
Commence attacks.This is not the Advice forum.
Good point. I should've kept to answering the rule question.
I'm going to open myself to criticism here, and I guess I fully deserve it.
I get what you're saying, but I made a level 1 Elf Wizard (Universalist) who took Martial Weapon Proficiency (Elven Curve Blade) and has Arcane Bond with the Curve Blade (making it masterwork)
STR 16 DEX 19 CON 14 INT 19 WIS 13 CHA 15so 7 times daily he can launch his blade up to 30' at +5 doing 1d10+4
and he can use it in melee if needs be at +4 dealing 1d10+4
and I'm figuring the threat range is 18-20/x2, but I wanted to confirm it
at first level I get 4 cantrips and 3 level 1 spells so I figured I may as well have backup melee ability
I'm going to open myself to criticism here, and I guess I fully deserve it.I get what you're saying, but I made a level 1 Elf Wizard (Universalist) who took Martial Weapon Proficiency (Elven Curve Blade) and has Arcane Bond with the Curve Blade (making it masterwork)
STR 16 DEX 19 CON 14 INT 19 WIS 13 CHA 15
so 7 times daily he can launch his blade up to 30' at +5 doing 1d10+4
and he can use it in melee if needs be at +4 dealing 1d10+4and I'm figuring the threat range is 18-20/x2, but I wanted to confirm it
at first level I get 4 cantrips and 3 level 1 spells so I figured I may as well have backup melee ability
Hand of the Apprentice states that "This attack is treated as a ranged attack with a thrown weapon, except that you add your Intelligence modifier on the attack roll instead of your Dexterity modifier." Thus, the Thrown Weapon rule still applies. A HoA weapon attack threatens only on a 20.
A HoA weapon attack threatens only on a 20.
If it is a type of weapon that isn't designed to be thrown (such as the mentioned Elven Curve Blade). Otherwise, it has its normal critical range and multiplier.
The question is wether a weapon thrown by this spell follows the rules for weapons of the category "thrown weapons" or those for "melee weapons that are thrown" (a different category).
If it were the latter, it had to follow ALL the rules that are given for that instance (10ft range increment, critical threat 20/x2 and -4 on the attack roll). All of these, or none.
And since the spell says "treated as a ranged attack with a thrown weapon" (instead of "ranged attack with a melee weapon") and has its own range, I'd say the answer is "none". No -4, no change of crit threat.
Good points. I stand corrected. I keep thinking "ranged attack with melee weapon" even though the text says otherwise. Thanks for the clarification.
