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Awesome! I'm so glad that PFRPG has kenk...uh...tengu! I love these guys! The sword thing is really cool, as is the Linguistics thing.
Don't know what I'm talking about? It's in the free Bestiary preview.
Hmmm... Neat.
I like bringing it back to the original inspiration.
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Goblins as characters, Tengu as characters, Tieflings as characters, these things make me really happy! From the talk coming from Paizo folk, I wasn't confident we were going to see much of this? I can understand them not wanting every other Pathfinder Society character suddenly being a Goblin, Tengu or Tiefling, when their world society is largely human-centric, but Pathfinder RPG core rules are for home-brew campaigns too, so it's good to see some of these options appearing without having to wait for a "Savage Species" style publication.
Hmmm... Neat.
I like bringing it back to the original inspiration.
Awesome link dude. Thank you.
When I first heard that Pathfinders was putting tengu in, I was really curious to see what approach they would take. I really like what they've done, and can see several ways already to put them in one of my campaigns (Tengu ninja clans, anyone?).
I do wonder, however, if the full Bestiary will also have an entry for the 'king tengus,' with the human faces and long noses? They'd likely be shapeshifters, though I don't know the legends well enough for the full extent on their powers...
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When I first heard that Pathfinders was putting tengu in, I was really curious to see what approach they would take. I really like what they've done, and can see several ways already to put them in one of my campaigns (Tengu ninja clans, anyone?).
I do wonder, however, if the full Bestiary will also have an entry for the 'king tengus,' with the human faces and long noses? They'd likely be shapeshifters, though I don't know the legends well enough for the full extent on their powers...
I al ready want to (have not had time yet) make a nice Monk/Rouge Tengu. Heck might go straight Monk. Or both. Or add Assassin to both. So much fun just waiting to happen!
If you said "Tengu" to most Japanese, they will think of a man wearing priestly robes with an old, wrinkled face and an extremely long nose ... not a crow-man.
FWIW,
Rez
Probably true, but at the same time, there are a lot of D&D creatures that you could make that argument for from various cultural standpoints.
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Those links really help to bring them to life for me. Thanks.
I am thinking of portraying them as more than assassins, or monks, more more as an aesthetic, perfecting itself through challenges spiritual, mental and physical. Masters of the sword, but reverent of nature. For humans they can be foul monsters in the night, demons to make the soul stray, or avenging angels and righteous teachers. Where ever they go, no matter an individual's opinion of them, they generate awe and always a sense of unworthiness.
Honestly,this is a very sexily done race. One of the best things in PFRP is that by upping the power on the standard races, stuff like this is actually playable without having a huge advantage. I wasn't a fan of the kenku, this just feels closer to the myths to me. I hope this is a sign of some other fun nonstandard races that aren't too over the top.
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Honestly,this is a very sexily done race. One of the best things in PFRP is that by upping the power on the standard races, stuff like this is actually playable without having a huge advantage. I wasn't a fan of the kenku, this just feels closer to the myths to me. I hope this is a sign of some other fun nonstandard races that aren't too over the top.
The Paizo folx have said they intend to use more myths and base the monsters closer to the myths or try to capture some of the feeling from the myths. So far I think they are doing that real well. I have the feeling they will keep doing so.
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I think the major stiff that the tengu gets is his legendary skill with the blade is totally glossed over.
He should be a legendary highly sought after swordmaster, but he's not. He's usually a crow-headed kleptomaniac.
Are you referring to Tengu portrayal in previous editions or other sources? Because the Bestiary preview provides them with Swordtrained, which is a pretty clear indication of their role in a campaign. The Tengu presented in the bestiary preview is a 1st level creature - if you want a highly sought after swordmaster, you'll need to add class levels, which means they can be a threat to any level adventuring party.
The Paizo folx have said they intend to use more myths and base the monsters closer to the myths or try to capture some of the feeling from the myths. So far I think they are doing that real well. I have the feeling they will keep doing so.
I'm glad to hear that. A lot of the gaming industry seems have gotten to the point that they wanted to pretend that their monsters weren't inspired by other sources, which is silly. People WANT things like actual Tengu in their games.
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I'm glad to hear that. A lot of the gaming industry seems have gotten to the point that they wanted to pretend that their monsters weren't inspired by other sources, which is silly. People WANT things like actual Tengu in their games.
The Paizo folx have said they intend to use more myths and base the monsters closer to the myths or try to capture some of the feeling from the myths. So far I think they are doing that real well. I have the feeling they will keep doing so.
Yep you are SOOO right. A certain other fantasy game whose parent company is in Seattle (ahem) seems to have monsters in their new edition of the game that have familiar names from myth and fantasy and yet are now radically different and have no semblance at all to their name sake.
Another reason I am sticking with Pathfinder. I can look at more than their work and get a feel for the monster and draw more inspiration. Though they really do a great job of providing that inspiration right off.
Yeah, I missed the tengu from the 1st edition Oriental Adventures.
But I also really dig the kenku from MM3. If they were a little bit taller, they'd remind me of the kif from CJ Cherryh's Chanur series. It's space opera, but the different species would be neat to see in a heroic fantasy campaign, too.
I'd also like to see a version of crow-folk that remind me of Raven and the Crow Girls from Charles DeLint's Newford series, the crow from "The Crow," and the whatchamacallems from "The Dark Crystal."
There's a lot of different crow mythoses (mythes? mythoi? mytheese?) that need to be explored....
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So the name was changed back, but they are still "Kenku".If you said "Tengu" to most Japanese, they will think of a man wearing priestly robes with an old, wrinkled face and an extremely long nose ... not a crow-man.
FWIW,
Rez
Hi, greetings from Japan.
Let me comment a bit about this.Here in Japan, the crow-man type Tengu are called karasu tengu, which means "crow" tengu in Japanese, when specifically referred to in distinction from the normal (for us living in Japan) long-nosed, red-human-faced taller ones.
These karasu tengu are sometimes called ko-tengu (small/lesser tengu) and considered to be lesser minions of the "normal" tengu. In that regard, the "normal" tengu are also called dai-tengu (greater tengu).
You may find paired statues or ornament masks in some shrines here, as they are believed to be divine beings in Japanese folktales, though some of them are regarded as fiendish, while some are celestial.
In either way, they are fantasy creatures originated from mixture of ancient Chinese and Indian mythologies/legends intermingled with Japanese folkbeliefs (e.g. karasu tengu is said to have some connection with Garuda from the Indian myths).
I guess, the name "kenku" could have been a shortened rendition (by the AD&D creaters) of the Japanese name karasu tengu (tengu is composed of ten "sky/celectial" and ku "dog/beast").
I hope Tengu from the PF bestiary will take some cool roles in a future Adventure Path set in Golarion's Tian-Xia lands. They have rich backgrounds worth delving into.
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I hope Tengu from the PF bestiary will take some cool roles in a future Adventure Path set in Golarion's Tian-Xia lands. They have rich backgrounds worth delving into.
I've just Wikied about Tengu in English and Japanese. Kind a nice short article to read for fun, knowledge (local), adventure hook or inspiration:
(edit)
I've just found that the Japanese Wiki URL cannot be BBCoded.
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I'm glad to hear that. A lot of the gaming industry seems have gotten to the point that they wanted to pretend that their monsters weren't inspired by other sources, which is silly. People WANT things like actual Tengu in their games.
The Paizo folx have said they intend to use more myths and base the monsters closer to the myths or try to capture some of the feeling from the myths. So far I think they are doing that real well. I have the feeling they will keep doing so.I'm just starting to play a Tengu Swordsage in our Pathfinder game! I really stoked by how well the class fits the theme of the Tengu. I'm curious to see if the class works ok in Pathfinder, imo it's the only class in Book of Nine Sowrds that isn't broken.
Curious if anyone has made a Pathfinderized version of the class?
I'm interested to hear what you think of the swordsage in Pathfinder; I think in the homebrew section somebody might've done something.
Creative Director
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Yeah... turns out that the last several thousand years of civilization have produced a LOT of really enduring monster myths, and ignoring those myths is kind of arrogant when it comes to statting up monsters for RPGs, I think. We still do brand new monsters in our books all the time, but just as often enjoy going to real-world myths for inspiration.
As for the tengus... they'll show up now and then in adventures. We don't have a big tengu adventure scheduled yet, though.
Interesting bit for the Tengu in another monster entry was the note that another of the common type of fleshes an Oni might use for its form is that of a Tengu. Which provides another kind of angle for them too which I found intriguing.
I just looked at the tengu last night and they are the perfect fit for my current campaign. I needed an interesting encounter for a group of PCs pressed into slave-mining an adamantine mine, finally escaping by digging where a resident ghost indicated escape by caverns was possible. Problem is, the caverns led them up to the surface of a rocky, forested plateau with no obvious way down (effectively, an island in the air).
I had not planned past that point, so went looking in the Bestiary Appendix 10 Monsters by Terrain (boy, do I love those appendices) for a suitable encounter. Seeing the unfamiliar tengu, I read them over and immediately fell in love with their potential. Now, I've got it in my head that their uber-secret martial monastery exists right down the rocky plateau path from our party's position. Reason for choosing the site? Well, it is isolated, but it also sports a rare tengu delicacy: gemfruit trees, otherwise known as "blech berries" by most humanoids (tengu would only be protecting the whereabouts of such groves from other tengu).
The tengu will not treat trespassers lightly, but have sense enough to recognize their weaponless, grubbily-clothed intruders for something other than intentional invaders. The PCs actions will determine the outcome of this encounter, and I will relish it however it manifests.
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Just adding a little bit to this old post.
I was all set up to have a Pathfinder (rules not setting) Tengu article appear in Kobold Quarterly 13 but it got yanked in favor of one of my other articles (I'll keep you guessing on that one for now in case Wolfgang Baur doesn't want me to spill the beans).
I'm just letting those people interested in tengu know that it should be appearing on the KQ Website sometime soon (for those of who don't peruse the KQ website and all the cool stuff on it). I'll return with a post letting people know when (if anyone is even vaguely interested).
Yeah... turns out that the last several thousand years of civilization have produced a LOT of really enduring monster myths, and ignoring those myths is kind of arrogant when it comes to statting up monsters for RPGs, I think. We still do brand new monsters in our books all the time, but just as often enjoy going to real-world myths for inspiration.
As for the tengus... they'll show up now and then in adventures. We don't have a big tengu adventure scheduled yet, though.
Any hopes for the Yawar Fiesta's winged bull?
Humbly,
Yawar
I'm glad to hear that. A lot of the gaming industry seems have gotten to the point that they wanted to pretend that their monsters weren't inspired by other sources, which is silly. People WANT things like actual Tengu in their games.
The Paizo folx have said they intend to use more myths and base the monsters closer to the myths or try to capture some of the feeling from the myths. So far I think they are doing that real well. I have the feeling they will keep doing so.
Kobolds are still nothing like they are in folk lore and myth.
Kobolds are still nothing like they are in folk lore and myth.I'm glad to hear that. A lot of the gaming industry seems have gotten to the point that they wanted to pretend that their monsters weren't inspired by other sources, which is silly. People WANT things like actual Tengu in their games.
The Paizo folx have said they intend to use more myths and base the monsters closer to the myths or try to capture some of the feeling from the myths. So far I think they are doing that real well. I have the feeling they will keep doing so.
I think in some cases, D&D has created it's own myth and lore. Goblins and kobolds fall under this. Yeah, kobolds are nothing like their germanic roots, but I think most games and fantasy sources now draw more from the D&D-ism then they do the actual folklore.
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I think in some cases, D&D has created it's own myth and lore. Goblins and kobolds fall under this. Yeah, kobolds are nothing like their germanic roots, but I think most games and fantasy sources now draw more from the D&D-ism then they do the actual folklore.Kobolds are still nothing like they are in folk lore and myth.I'm glad to hear that. A lot of the gaming industry seems have gotten to the point that they wanted to pretend that their monsters weren't inspired by other sources, which is silly. People WANT things like actual Tengu in their games.
The Paizo folx have said they intend to use more myths and base the monsters closer to the myths or try to capture some of the feeling from the myths. So far I think they are doing that real well. I have the feeling they will keep doing so.
I agree. Most rpg monsters are inspired by their legacy in table top games. Besides, Orcs are completely based off of Tolkien myth, for if they weren't then they would be demons (i. e. Orcus).
