I don't think there are any tests. I signed up to DM PFS sessions at Paizocon and Mr. Frost doesn't know me from Adam...hopefully I'll measure up when it comes to sitting down at the table and running a session. :)
Also, I think the ruleset is D&D 3.5 until August, when it will switch to the Pathfinder RPG.
M
I think the idea is that PFS is undergoing playtesting at the same time as the ruleset - and Paizo (wisely, IMHO) decided to test them separately so as not to get their peanut butter mixed up in their chocolate just yet.
M
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Jesse, while the Beta rules are spiffy, they are a playtest, and the actual Pathfinder RPG will be fairly different; mostly, it'll be closer to the baseline 3.5 rules.
The PFS will never use the Beta playtest rules.
Having said that, it sounds like you and your friends are interested in playing a common-background team in a home campaign. So long as you're not planing on going out and playing in convention Society events with strangers, go ahead and use the Beta rules, or adapt the scenarios to True20, d6 Fantasy, Song of Ice and Fire RPG, or whatever you please.
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Also note that Pathfinder RPG is not designed to replace any "crummy rule system". Indeed, it is designed to continue the legacy of a rule system that the Paizo staff and many of us enjoy.
As you have a book in front of you that says BETA PLAYTEST, you might want to read or re-read the Introduction chapter in said book.
That being said, look at the timeline involved.
March 2008 Alpha Playtest begins
June 2008 Alpha Playtest Concludes
August 2008 PFS Year 0 Begins
August 2008 Beta Playtest Begin, books at the Con are sold out within 9 hours.
October 2008, Jason puts out an updated Paladin and other rules for playtest
Now, what if you didn't have that book in front of you, because you decided to join the PFS in let's say late last September at a Con that had a few games running. You say "this is a really cool world, so where can I pick up the rules I need to play here." The answer: "Well, go online and pick up the free download. The physical books have been sold out, but I think they're planning a reprint of them. Oh, and don't get too comfortable, because the rules will be changing all year until next August when you can buy the final rules. But in the meantime, keep your eyes on Paizo's message boards, because that's the only place rule changes will be announced. Hopefully the next Con you go to, the DM will be up to date on the rule changes. So you say you want to play a Paladin? Cool, let's sign you up."
This nightmare scenario is precisely why Paizo is using 3.5 for year 0.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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As a DM who has seen my share of new players try to introduce their 1st-Level Beta-rules characters into a PFS session, I can tell you that you're not alone in your confusion.
Part of it, of course, stems from Paizo's branding everything they publish with the same "Pathfinder" term. Pathfinder Society doesn't allow for Pathfinder Adventure Paths or Pathfinder modules, either, which might strike some people as equally confusing.
(Does anybody remember the old Battlestar: Galactica, where "centon" was some sort of universal unit that measured everything from distance to time to energy to probably pagecount.)
As other people have explained, there ere two reasons that Josh and Nick declined to implement Pathfinder Society Season 0 under the Beta rules. First, Season 0 has been the shake-down cruise. Josh has been finding out what works in the Organized Play (OP) environment and what needs tweaking. And that kind of experiment works best under a game system with which players are familiar.
And secondly, as much as the Beta rules appeal to you in their entirety, they were indeed a playtest, and, as you may know, hundreds of players spent months on these message-boards, going through the rules with a collection of fine-toothed combs, finding klunkers and suggesting improvements. Major design updates appeared regularly.
In a home campaign, play the game system you like, with whatever house rules make the game fun for you. But in OP, tables need to all agree on the rules. If PFS had been held under the "current Beta" rules system, then every time a revision was issued --on Barbarians, or Ranger companions, or Paladins-- all the affected characters would have to be re-vamped before they were legal for PFS play. Some of the Beta revisions would have affected every single PC.
Josh and Nick thought it would be better if there were one single change-over, from base 3.5 rules to base Pathfinder RPG, this August.
Chris Mortika Wrote:
A whole bunch of stuff.
Hey Chris,
Sounds like you have an inside track on what is what. What is your background anyway? I mean besides from having co-authored the Superman Sourcebook, have been a freelance editor for TSR and having played that ridiculous Beast Mister in Steve's DC Heroes campaign back in the day.
Good to see you as well. It has been a long time. I have been meaning to post a note to you and say hey. Life always seems to keep me busy, however. Anyway, I am being summoned by my youngest child. As I said, life keeps me busy. I'll post to you later.
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It's a moot point. My local group, upon discovering that the Pathfinder society is not actually using the Pathfinder rule set, lost any interest in playing until such time as the new rules are actually in place.
That is really unfortunate for them, and for you, because Pathfinder Society has been a huge success for everyone I've run it for, or talked about it with.
My players asked the same questions initially, why wasn't Pathfinder Society using Pathfinder Beta rules, as did I, and it has been initially confusing for my players who have characters playing in Adventure Paths using Beta, and Pathfinder Society using 3.5 core.
But after any initial confusion, or frustration over not being able to use the Beta rules in Society games, we've pretty much just gotten on with the business of enjoying the games (GMed 25 sessions so far), and I'd highly recommend anyone else putting the Beta back on the shelf and doing the same. You're really the only ones missing out if you don't.
It has been really exciting getting in on the ground floor of this new campaign, and playing every scenario as they're released. You'll still be able to play Season 0 scnearios using the new Pathfinder RPG hardcover rules when they're released in August, so I guess you really haven't missed anything, but you'll have a bit of catching up to do if you want to play them all.
I actually lost one player completely as he is of the opinion that the shenanigans in this organizational flummery have reduced his confidence in the ability of this organized play group to deliver an entertaining experience.
Obviously, I don't know your players, but usually attitudes like these are a cover for something else, such as big-noting himself, conflicts with other players, lack of commitment to regular meet-ups etc. I wouldn't be too concerned about losing a player with these attitudes. Run Society sessions anyway, and you may find he comes up with some excuse to re-join the group when he hears how much fun they're having.
"Spicy"? The first spice I see in this thread is from you (quoted below). Prior to this flamebait it was just the facts...and an opinion, from me, couched as such. Did you really have a question or did you just want to start a fight?
The facts are: PFS is using 3.5 until August. If you want to play the scenarios at home using another ruleset then you're free to do so. If you want to wait until Pathfinder is out then you're free to do so. If you want to "take your ball and go home" then you're free to do so. If you want to b*tch at people that try to answer your question then you're free to do so...I guess.
M
Funny, I have this book open on my desk right now called the "Pathfinder beta" that has a pretty solid rule set in it. Apparently it's not good enough for the "Pathfinder society" so they're still using the crummy rules that Pathfinder was designed to replace, though . . . ?
Looks like we'll be waiting 'til post-GenCon.
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Actually I've been playing the Beta for some time in our home campaign, and we've found numerous nitpicks and things that still need fixing. Besides there are inevitable MAJOR changes in the final product, such as cleric domains and CMB mechanics.
Besides, in my mind, both 3.5 and PFRPG are still very much the same. PF will bring some fixes to the 3.5 system (like skill system) but retains some of its biggest flaws (ridiculous power curve).
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[Edited Out]
Hope to see you in/after August then. Join year 1. It's what I'll be doing. I've been playing BETA and not PFS, and will be running PFS for the first time at GenCon. Just because I understand- and to some degree agree with- Paizo's reasons for staying 3.5 for year 0, doesn't mean I was excluded from the Beta Playtest. Rather, I chose to wait out year 0, and join in year 1 instead. Hope your group can maybe re-read this thread and come to an understanding with the actual reasons behind Paizo's decision, which is, after all, what you asked about.
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Depends on the rest of the crew. The original plan was to build a pair of five-person groups and play in the local organized play scene, but it turns out that there is no local organized play scene here. Ergo, it looks like it would be up to me to eat the mods and run while the other players set up tables of 4 & 5 or so.
Which may be what it takes. That's basically what I've done in Melbourne. If I didn't, I'm not sure that anyone else would have? But now, there's a number of regular faces that show up at each convention looking for Pathfinder Society. Someone has to take the first bite, but after that, others will jump on-board. Recruit their help, and then once things are running on their own, step back if GMing isn't your preference. Building a local community takes a bit of work, but the benefits are well worth the effort.
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Hey, Jesse, it's cool to see that you're so excited to get going with the Pathfinder RPG! It sounds like waiting until August may be the best bet for you, given your group's reluctance to participate in the current 3.5 "Season 0". We'll be running Pathfinder RPG exclusively for Society events starting with Slot 1 at Gen Con, where the book is released. Thereafter everything we do as a company will be for the Pathfinder RPG rules set, and you won't have to worry about this problem anymore.
I wouldn't worry about the final rules being too much like 3.5. There are still lots of really cool innovative changes, lots of which we haven't even hinted at yet.
I'm always slightly confused when folks are confused about rules set we're using for season 0 when on page 3 of the guide, right there in the first paragraph, it says:
"Welcome to the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play! Within these pages you will find everything you need to bring your very own Pathfinder character to life. Whether you are new to the 3.5 edition of the world’s most popular roleplaying game, or a veteran of pen & paper roleplaying games, the answers to your questions about Pathfinder Society Organized Play are right here! Beyond this guidebook you will need the core 3.5 rulebooks (PH, DMG, and MM), since this document references the 3.5 rules on numerous occasions."
As for not wanting to continue with 3.5 and waiting for the system to shift to PRPG in August, I think there are quite a few people waiting to do so. It's not surprising--I'm excited about the new rules too! But what we didn't want and still don't want is to playtest two systems together at the same time. Anytime we changed the beta, we'd need to change the whole OP system and, regardless, we'd still need to change rules sets again in August anyway because the beta and the final rules are NOT the same rules set exactly.
Does the Pathfinder Society have any sort of tests or registration for DMs in the fashion that the RPGA used in the heyday of 3.5e?
Has the Society switched over to the actual Pathfinder rules yet? (If the answer is "no," then my entire game group will not be playing until they do.)
Thanks,
Jesse
Jesse, just to let you know, I'm planning a huge rollout of Season 1, using the release Pathfinder rules, for Gateway.
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If this is on the wrong board please tell me, but I have a some small questions re: characters in a scenario;
1 If you play a char in a scenario you cannot play that scenario again with another char?
2 can a player have more than one char. @ a time in a scenario?
1) Yes. Unlike LFR you can play Pathfinder Scenarios only once. If you GM the scenario before you play it you cannot ever play it.
2) No. You may make more than one character but you may only play one of your characters at a time.
Some groups of players have agreed to play the scenarios outside of the Organized Play rules, as if it was a home campaign where they use house rules and other varients. If you and your friends want to do this then there's nothing to stop you so have fun :), but any characters who play in those games are ineligible to play in Pathfinder Society events at conventions & gamedays. I hope that answered your questions.
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Some groups of players have agreed to play the scenarios outside of the Organized Play rules, as if it was a home campaign where they use house rules and other varients. If you and your friends want to do this then there's nothing to stop you so have fun :), but any characters who play in those games are ineligible to play in Pathfinder Society events at conventions & gamedays. I hope that answered your questions.
Just a note to this - you can also have a legal home game too, using the rules as set by the Society, and get credit, and use those characters at conventions.
I presumed that the document on the website must be an old document in need of updating, because it made no sense to me that there would be this test version of the rules and test version of the organization and the organization was not testing the rules.
One: They were testing rules for organized play, not the rules for the Pathfinder RPG. Although, they are testing the rules for that too, just not in the PF Society.
Two: The name Pathfinder Society comes from the fact that there is an organization on Golarion named... the Pathfinder Society. It seems you have mixed up this in-game organization and the name of the new RPG that comes out this Gen-Con.
"Pathfinder character" refers to "someone who is a member of the Pathfinder Organization" not "a character made by the new ruleset we developed to replace that crummy old ruleset".