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I know I didn't get this e-mail till today, but hasn't there been an official cutoff date for any items carrying the d20 logo from sale for a while? these products would have all had it and therefore they couldn't be sold, this is all hypothesizing on my part as i haven't been interested in WotC stuff since the crap that was complete champion (only 1/4 of the book is good usable stuff). But I thought there had been a cutoff point established, maybe we just hit the cut-off and the e-mail was a reminder.
I know I didn't get this e-mail till today, but hasn't there been an official cutoff date for any items carrying the d20 logo from sale for a while? these products would have all had it and therefore they couldn't be sold, this is all hypothesizing on my part as i haven't been interested in WotC stuff since the crap that was complete champion (only 1/4 of the book is good usable stuff). But I thought there had been a cutoff point established, maybe we just hit the cut-off and the e-mail was a reminder.
It is worse then that. They are cutting off the sale of any "legitimate" 4th Edition PDFs that were out there. (Not to mention any 2nd & 1st edition stuff still floating arround.)
Actually, check out the main thread for this subject.
I wouldn't worry *too* much about ppl not collecting their downloads. Most people at least get one copy when they first make the purchase, and this would be a reminder in case there was something "on the back wall" that you overlooked downloading.
As for the decision itself, most likely WotC wants to sell their PDF products on some offshoot of their own site, or make some kind of exclusive deal with a single electronic retailer. I recall from the same survey that asked about DDI, they asked if subscribers would like discounts on PDFs (much as we get with PF subscriptions). So maybe they're now acting on that info.
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I suspect that there will be some people out there who are interested in the PDFs who will not check their mail until too late.
Alas this applies to me.. I bought the Original D&D set from another site, with Suppliment I: Greyhawk, and have only downloaded it once, it happens to be on a flash drive that has long since expired.
Seems I've paid for nothing.
Good job WotC, you've taken away the one reason i'd still spend money on you. Paizo for life!
Charles: WotC sued some people for pirating the PHB2, so it looks like they're going all RIAA on piracy, and someone in their chain of command seems to think that making legal PDFs inaccessible will help.
And the effect isn't really the lack of 4th edition PDFs. As you said, there are print version available. What is going to happen (has happened, rather) is that the 1e and 2e PDFs are going away, and they are not available in print, except as collector's items on eBay.
My personal theory is that WotC is taking after Games Workshop.
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Yep, that's how it's affecting me - I had lots of AD&D stuff on here that I'd downloaded at various times. I did make sure I had it all on my hard drive, but still, a bit more warning would have been nice so I could pick up a few more 2nd ed stuff before the window closed forever.
Stupid WOTC...more accurately, in my estimation, stupid Has-blow!
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I'm still in shock.. I can't believe how furious this has made me. I was introduced to D&D at 3.0, and only recently have become interested in the history of the game, and its past editions. NOW how am I going to play pre 3.0 D&D? I don't exactly have the cash to be bidding on eBay, when it would have been cheaper to get the pdf.
I'm still in shock.. I can't believe how furious this has made me. I was introduced to D&D at 3.0, and only recently have become interested in the history of the game, and its past editions. NOW how am I going to play pre 3.0 D&D? I don't exactly have the cash to be bidding on eBay, when it would have been cheaper to get the pdf.
Don't worry, Jason. In a moment, Pax Veritas will appear and tell you how to play pre-3.0. One, two, three...
NOW how am I going to play pre 3.0 D&D?
Sadly, Jason, the answer is probably in your question.
Maybe the mages on the shore don't want you to play D&D3, 2, 1 or even D&DO.They seem to think their older products are too competitive for their current one.
Just a thought.
I'm still in shock.. I can't believe how furious this has made me. I was introduced to D&D at 3.0, and only recently have become interested in the history of the game, and its past editions. NOW how am I going to play pre 3.0 D&D? I don't exactly have the cash to be bidding on eBay, when it would have been cheaper to get the pdf.
I've seen lots of things that I like go off the market. When that has happened in the past, I've been disappointed, and maybe I thought it was a bad idea, but I've never been furious.
Should I be furious at Paizo because they don't make the PDFs for "Rise of the Runelords" available to me for the price I'm willing to pay? That seems a bit silly.
I can see that some folks might be ticked off if they had bought a PDF and hadn't downloaded it yet (therefore actually losing money), but getting angry over something that hasn't cost you a cent seems like an overreaction. (No offense intended; I agree that this is a terrible idea on WotC's part.)
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I'm still in shock.. I can't believe how furious this has made me. I was introduced to D&D at 3.0, and only recently have become interested in the history of the game, and its past editions. NOW how am I going to play pre 3.0 D&D? I don't exactly have the cash to be bidding on eBay, when it would have been cheaper to get the pdf.I've seen lots of things that I like go off the market. When that has happened in the past, I've been disappointed, and maybe I thought it was a bad idea, but I've never been furious.
Should I be furious at Paizo because they don't make the PDFs for "Rise of the Runelords" available to me for the price I'm willing to pay? That seems a bit silly.
I can see that some folks might be ticked off if they had bought a PDF and hadn't downloaded it yet (therefore actually losing money), but getting angry over something that hasn't cost you a cent seems like an overreaction. (No offense intended; I agree that this is a terrible idea on WotC's part.)
I actually paid for the oDnD set from another site, along with Supplement I: Greyhawk. I downloaded it once just to see it (i was at work at the time) and haven't saved it. Now, I'll never get to download it, as the files have already been pulled from that site.
I actually paid for the oDnD set from another site, along with Supplement I: Greyhawk. I downloaded it once just to see it (i was at work at the time) and haven't saved it. Now, I'll never get to download it, as the files have already been pulled from that site.
Well, that's certainly worth writing an angry letter to WotC Customer Support.
I actually paid for the oDnD set from another site, along with Supplement I: Greyhawk. I downloaded it once just to see it (i was at work at the time) and haven't saved it. Now, I'll never get to download it, as the files have already been pulled from that site.Well, that's certainly worth writing an angry letter to WotC Customer Support.
Or you know not WotC Customer Support and possibly the site where you had made the file purchase. I think Wizards is going to round those lost pdfs up and host them on their own stuff, it seems to be the current trend of iron-gripping their IP.
Well crap. Now I feel stupid for not buying up a bunch of the Alternity PDFs as they're all gone now. Bugger. :(
What gives? Looks like PDFs of past issues of Dungeon are still for sale... even though they're technically WotC property.
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someone in their chain of command seems to think that making legal PDFs inaccessible will help.
Great plan, has worked wonders in the past (music industry). Then they wonder why piracy on the internet occurs so much! I honesty think that WotC seem to be regaining control of the D&D brand in the broader sense so they can be sure you WILL play 4E. From a business point of view very wise, from a good of the gaming community at large it just blows. Just reeks of "Hasbo Inc." corporation doing what corporations do best...
S.
What gives? Looks like PDFs of past issues of Dungeon are still for sale... even though they're technically WotC property.
It's a separate agreement. There's a much longer thread on this same subject (with some limited comments from Paizo staff) in the "Website Feedback" forum.
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Charles: WotC sued some people for pirating the PHB2, so it looks like they're going all RIAA on piracy, and someone in their chain of command seems to think that making legal PDFs inaccessible will help.
Brilliant Idea, now all who want a PDF and would have bought it legally will get it somewhere else less legally.
Way to go Woc!
It seems Use Internet is now a Rogue class skill, although WotC is trying to make it Paladin only.
Their next step might be to sue all Kinko's and pass a law which makes copiers illegal.
They discovered that with a copier you can make pirate copies of their books.
Also, they consider to secure their books in a steel wired plastic wrap, so people wouldn't be able to flip the pages in stores and try to memorize the content.
Damn pirates.
;)
It seems Use Internet is now a Rogue class skill, although WotC is trying to make it Paladin only.
I think WotC would be delighted if everyone used the internet, namely the D&DI subscription web service.
So, to extend your analogy, it's more like deleting permanent items from the treasure tables, but leaving in rules for creating custom permanent items. ;-)
NOW how am I going to play pre 3.0 D&D?Sadly, Jason, the answer is probably in your question.
Maybe the mages on the shore don't want you to play D&D3, 2, 1 or even D&DO.
They seem to think their older products are too competitive for their current one.
Just a thought.
That's my theory--it isn't about revenue lost to downloads of OOP material, it's about protecting the 4E brand from competition with past editions. This makes quite a bit of sense.
ARRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!! I JUST SAW THIS! I STILL HAVE PLANESCAPE PDFS TO BUY! (SHRIEK!!!)
Runs around pulling out fur and hooting at high decibels
Well, so much for Wizards ever releasing the 3.5 PDFs cheaply ....
If I wasn't such a believer in intellectual property rights ..<grumble grumble>
Well. I don't play 4E. Looked into it just recently. Now, I will not play 4E. For all you creative, storytelling souls who were thinking about creating a new world, character, or other extension to official "D&D", please consider vendors OTHER than WOTC. Just think how restrictive your audience would be in the future.
The whole "remove PDFs from sale" is the stupidest thing I've seen a company do in a long time. You are asking to be backrupted by removing revenue streams from your bottom line. (conspiracy theory)
Is it just me, or is WotC begging it's customers to boycott them?
It isn't just you. This is ridiculous. If I've interpreted this right, they brought out 4.0. Then they saw that is was very unpopular, and they needed a way to stop them playing 3.5. The solution? Get rid of 3.5 material.
I'm throwing my 4.0 PHB into the attic.|
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ARRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!! I JUST SAW THIS! I STILL HAVE PLANESCAPE PDFS TO BUY! (SHRIEK!!!)
Runs around pulling out fur and hooting at high decibels
Well, so much for Wizards ever releasing the 3.5 PDFs cheaply ....
If I wasn't such a believer in intellectual property rights ..<grumble grumble>
Well, there's still the used market for the dead trees versions...
Footnote: my comic store still has several 2E Al'Qadim and Birthright boxes on the shelf, unopened, in their original shrinkwrap, at the original MSRP. So the books/boxes you're missing are probably still out there somewhere waiting for you.
I guess the next thing they will be going after is ebay and used book stores. I have not bought a new book from them in years everything I purchase is from half priced books I even found the core books for 4th edition there. Waste of money but I am obsessive. Buying used is almost as bad as pirating but at least it is legal : )
Is it just me, or is WotC begging it's customers to boycott them?It isn't just you. This is ridiculous. If I've interpreted this right, they brought out 4.0. Then they saw that is was very unpopular, and they needed a way to stop them playing 3.5. The solution? Get rid of 3.5 material.
I'm throwing my 4.0 PHB into the attic.
It'd be much more profitable to you if you simply sold it on ebay or something.. just saying..
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Charles: WotC sued some people for pirating the PHB2, so it looks like they're going all RIAA on piracy, and someone in their chain of command seems to think that making legal PDFs inaccessible will help.
And the effect isn't really the lack of 4th edition PDFs. As you said, there are print version available. What is going to happen (has happened, rather) is that the 1e and 2e PDFs are going away, and they are not available in print, except as collector's items on eBay.
My personal theory is that WotC is taking after Games Workshop.
Let's see...
Edition change...CHECK
Increase price on Minis...CHECK
Increase prices...CHECK
Disallow others to sell...CHECK
Dumb down the game...THAT'S A BIG CHECK
Yeah, sounds like they got a hold of GW's business model...
Next you won't be allowed to use pictures of their products you'll have to display the "This image removed at the request of Wizard's of the Coast" picture.
Is it just me, or is WotC begging it's customers to boycott them?
It's the classic dysfunctional, unaccepted break-up. One partner says bye-bye, I'm done, it's over. The other does "everything imaginable to win the beloved back." Only, as any sane person can see, the pursuer does everything that guarantees not only will they never come back, they'll also hate your guts/tell the world so everyone can make fun of you/take legal steps/thank God everyday you're gone/etc. WotC is the typical obsessive loser in a bad break-up. If we ever said, We're splitting, but let's remain friends, we certainly aren't saying that now.
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Require buying a lot of expensive books to play the complete game?Let's see...
Edition change...CHECK
Increase price on Minis...CHECK
Increase prices...CHECK
Disallow others to sell...CHECK
Dumb down the game...THAT'S A BIG CHECKYeah, sounds like they got a hold of GW's business model...
No kidding. You would have to buy about 6 4E books to get the same class/race/customization options in one 3.5 PHB. You'd get some extra stuff as well, but if you want just the stuff available in the 3.5 PHB, you have to get a small library of 4E books. A 4E DM would also have to get probably 3 or 4 MM's/monster books to get the same monsters in the 3.5 MM. That's just ridiculous.
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No kidding. You would have to buy about 6 4E books to get the same class/race/customization options in one 3.5 PHB. You'd get some extra stuff as well, but if you want just the stuff available in the 3.5 PHB, you have to get a small library of 4E books. A 4E DM would also have to get probably 3 or 4 MM's/monster books to get the same monsters in the 3.5 MM. That's just ridiculous.
Not to defend their strategy, but I think getting a complete game with just the starter books in 3.5 hurt them a little. How many people do you know that banned anything beyond core because of the power creep (or is it better described as reckless experimentation)?
4e is a whole different animal - slow releases of gradual rule increases that don't creep so much but provide more options (then again some of the additions in Powers and PHB2 could bring the creep thing into question). I've just come to accept it, mainly because I'm really not expecting to get any more, anyway.
On one side it ensures greater sales. On the other, given what 3.5 was like, I found myself unappreciative.
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No kidding. You would have to buy about 6 4E books to get the same class/race/customization options in one 3.5 PHB.
Or just buy Path Finder RPG and Monster book...
Well that is my cunning plan to avoid the back breaking "horde" of books required to "fully" play 4E. Then again I was one of the people who always played in "no splat book" groups that resulted in WotC making multi-Core books to sell more books!
So sorry guys, 4E is my fault :(
S.
How many people do you know that banned anything beyond core because of the power creep (or is it better described as reckless experimentation)?
Not near as many people as I know who just went nuts and bought every book they barf--ur, published each month.
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Getting all the new WotC books: $35 per month
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Making sure you have all the new WotC Minis: $15 per month
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Playing the new WotC game they mistakingly call D&D: 1/2 your brain cells
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Taking all that sh!t to Gen Con to burn in a big bonfire in front of Bill Slavisuck: PRICELESS-W. E. Ray
Now that is funny.
I am not saying that having lots of player choice is bad, but from a DM point of view 4E PHB/PHB2/PHB3/.../PHB1,021 will give me nightmares. I am positive other GM's have had the "but it says" from players. Then after reading the actual rule not quite having the same idea about it. Given the errata for 4E already (which grows frighteningly quickly) it indicates that the 4E rules aren't so clearly presented that "rule fuzziness" is a thing of the past.
The beauty of "core" v3.5 was as GM you only really had to do a few "rulings" once and no new surprises popped up. With a PHB every 6 months it'll be 5 minutes play and 4.5 hours interpreting new powers. But it'll be a mute point really, the next generation of gamers will have 4E and think its D&D. The removal of the pdf sales as we have all said is a blatant move to restrict access to earlier editions of D&D, and in turn they hope increase sales of 4E. This makes me think along the same lines as a previous poster, WotC must be concerned that 4E hasn't wow'd the D&D gaming world in a manner they had hoped. When getting someone to do something because its so damned cool doesn't work, you use force...
But the heart of D&D is not dead, it still beats in the Pathfinder RPG. The torch created by TSR and then passed on to WotC has simply been passed onto Paizo in my mind. No big deal really.
S.
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Not near as many people as I know who just went nuts and bought every book they barf--ur, published each month.
Guilty...although I did at least acquire the vast majority of those books after 4e came out, thereby getting the 3.5 stuff super cheap on ebay. In fact the stuff I bought BEFORE 4e was largely on ebay too, just not quite as cheap. I don't have a FLGS, so I can at least buy stuff guilt-free on ebay.
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Someone found this article.
The contents are nothing new, it is the headline that is worth checking out.
ARRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!! I JUST SAW THIS! I STILL HAVE PLANESCAPE PDFS TO BUY! (SHRIEK!!!)
Runs around pulling out fur and hooting at high decibels
Well, so much for Wizards ever releasing the 3.5 PDFs cheaply ....
If I wasn't such a believer in intellectual property rights ..<grumble grumble>
Well, there's still the used market for the dead trees versions...
Footnote: my comic store still has several 2E Al'Qadim and Birthright boxes on the shelf, unopened, in their original shrinkwrap, at the original MSRP. So the books/boxes you're missing are probably still out there somewhere waiting for you.
It isn't just yours, my FLGS has tons of 2e material from FR and Ravenloft and Dragonlance just sitting there at original price.
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That may be, but the whole point is that with pdfs, you don't HAVE to look hard for them, and also, of course, you don't have to pay retail (without piracy and such)
There's a reason that stuff is still available for retail at the game store - people aren't willing to pay that much. I wouldn't pay $20 for a 2nd ed AD&D supplement for background fluff on my 3.5 campaign I'm planning for, but I'd damn sure pay $2 to download it and read it on my PC. :)
Ah well, such is life.
Someone found this article.
The contents are nothing new, it is the headline that is worth checking out.
Hilarious. Where did you find it?
NOW how am I going to play pre 3.0 D&D?Sadly, Jason, the answer is probably in your question.
Maybe the mages on the shore don't want you to play D&D3, 2, 1 or even D&DO.
They seem to think their older products are too competitive for their current one.
Just a thought.
QFT.
Jason, have you seen OSRIC? It's described as "first edition reborn," and I thought it looked pretty good. I mostly ignored 2e, except for the later Player's Option books, like Spells and Magic by Richard Baker. 3e really won me over, so I don't have much interest in revisiting 1e, even though it might be fun with the right group of people.
I don't have any Wotc pdf files, but I'm offended anyway. That's a business I don't care to support. (By a happy coincidence, I found 4e unappealing anyway.)