The Mother of All can teleport anywhere in the hundred-square-mile sargasso, once a minute. Why should it ever fight the PCs? Why not just wear them down with horror attack after horror attack over days, weeks, months, or years until they either fall in battle or die of thirst?
For that matter, why isn't leaving the Sea Wyvern to hunt down the (uncatchable) Mother an automatic death sentence for the crew of the ship, without PC defenses against the nearly infinite horde of vine horrors?
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Because the vines only come out at night, and because as a DM you can make it spooky and cinematic and climactic, instead of instant death. After a night or two at most of relentless attacks, the PC's SHOULD realize that it only happens at night, at which point they should be smart enough to figure out that setting out at dawn is the answer. Make them take all day to find what they need to find - make them nervous about making it back to the ship before dark.
We got through it and even though it's been months, my PC's still remember it as one of the higher tension moments of the campaign.
Try to remember that just because a monster CAN do something, doesn't mean it should.
Can the Mother teleport anywhere she wants? Yeah. But why should she? Why would she care? She's got potentially thousands of offspring she can inundate the PC's with until they die. Most importantly, would it be fun for everyone to use it cheaply in the game?
An example:
I think everyone that GM's the Sargasso encounter ends up having to mentally "re-write" the Mother's abilities at least a bit - otherwise the encounter is a guaranteed death sentence for the APL intended to go into it.
The literal-minded who run it will either TPK or come close to it (probably before realizing why it is they can slaughter the whole group without breathing too hard) until that realization is made.
I had to take a break when getting ready to run the Mother - the wording of her abilities is pretty poor - in order to get across a better feel for what I took from the write-up. Generally I can run Paizo's Adventure Paths "as written" (modifiying as necessary on the fly for group composition), so this caught me by surprise.
There are a number of STAP Campaign Journals posted - several did a far better job than I did with the Sargasso (although I might have been among the more brutal with the minions) it would seem in conveying the 'Hudson Moment' that should be elicited from the scenario as it plays out.
Good luck!
I’ve drawn the comparison between the Mother in he hold to the Spartans at the Battle of Thermopylae. The only thing we changed in our campaign was getting her out of the ship. Once she “teleported,” she was more vulnerable. In the ship, she could functionally only be attacked by one character at a time. In the open, she could draw fire from all quarters. So, as someone said, just because she can doesn’t mean she should. In fact, she shouldn’t want to move unless she’s losing.
What an awesome, Lovecraftian creature.
I'm not seeing her as that tough, although I'll see this weekend when my players run into her. If she teleports to the top of the maw as suggested in the adventure, then she has to last 10 rounds before she can teleport away again. Not many battles last that long. If she concentrates on one PC, she may take that one down before she dies. But if she switches targets once or twice, it should be tough but doable.
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I'm not seeing her as that tough, although I'll see this weekend when my players run into her. If she teleports to the top of the maw as suggested in the adventure, then she has to last 10 rounds before she can teleport away again. Not many battles last that long. If she concentrates on one PC, she may take that one down before she dies. But if she switches targets once or twice, it should be tough but doable.
perhaps my guys were too strong for this fight (although right at the suggested level), but it was almost a non-event.
fight through vine horrors, killing assassin vines as they go, get to the big ol' hole in the floor.
don't remember the exact results, but i recall the mother summoned some assistance, ported up, fought for a bit, and was slain, probably with raging flame + lots of fire damage or massive full attacks from the ranger/dervish and drunken master.
i do recall the pyrokineticist zoomed across the tilting deck, teleporting and grabbing the idol from tamoachan in a cool dramatic moment.
-t
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
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My guys were 7th and the five of them kicked her butt in 5 rounds, blocking her advance with an earth elemental (from 1st adventure). I even gave her 2 120hp Vine Horror Advanced Rhagodessa's as back up, locking down the fighters in grapples. They ripped free with their first attacks, hit momma with the second and got picked up again every round.
Mom kicked butt the first round and one mage lost a spell to the noise. They finished it off with a Metamagicked Magic Missile that drained a level (from Libris Mortis) and dessicated her.
You know your players. Mine were buffed to the gills with splatbook goodness and even with pumping her to CR10 with max hit-points of 168 she went down without a casualty.
My guys were 7th and the five of them kicked her butt in 5 rounds, blocking her advance with an earth elemental (from 1st adventure). I even gave her 2 120hp Vine Horror Advanced Rhagodessa's as back up, locking down the fighters in grapples. They ripped free with their first attacks, hit momma with the second and got picked up again every round.
Mom kicked butt the first round and one mage lost a spell to the noise. They finished it off with a Metamagicked Magic Missile that drained a level (from Libris Mortis) and dessicated her.
You know your players. Mine were buffed to the gills with splatbook goodness and even with pumping her to CR10 with max hit-points of 168 she went down without a casualty.
With (effectively) full splatbook goodness available, most encounters are really 1 or 2 CR lower than "book" assessments would indicate, sometimes 3.
However, I can't wait to see your group start having to deal with the higher-end stuff I put together... and don't forget to see if P.H. Dungeon still has his stuff available to send you. There's some good stuff in there to use!
I have a group of six players about to fight Mother of All and I'm worried the battle will be anti-climatic. Mama has this great pit to work with and she's pretty smart for a plant so she'll try and drop PCs into The Maw. 100 foot drop, DC 20 climb check to get out, no line of sight past the top edge, perfect place to stash dinner. I'm giving her Improved Grab to give her a better chance to toss pesky players down the dirty hole.
The Wreck of the Thunderer is the oldest ship in the sargasso and is slippery with rot and sludge. I'm making it a DC13 balance check to move on the slick floor (which, by the way, makes players flat footed when moving). When Mama transports to the top of the Maw her weight will tilt the ship towards the Maw. DC13 balance checks every round (even if standing still) or players slip 10 feet and probably fall. That should come as a surprise to the mages gathered at the rim hucking fireballs down the hole.
I had her teleport once; underwater beneath the boat. From there she started calling vine horrors or assassin vines or whatever it is (I don't have the book in front of me).
Then the dragonfire adept in the party (who is also a red dragon) put on a cloak that made him go from medium size to large size, which made him weigh 3,100 lbs. in weight, which sent him crashing through the floor of the rotten boat and vines, and then used his aquatic adaptation ability to breathe fire on her.
She died and the players will never forget it.
Giving her an occasional 50 foot, move action, does-not-provoke, travel via Sargasso will freak the players out without making it all too illogical.
Mother-of-all: Floop!
Frontman Fighter Fred: Huh? Where'd she go?
Backdoor Wizard Willy: AAARGGGHHH!!! The humanity!
Almost there with my group - just hit the Flotsam Ooze today, Tamoachan next week. Will love seeing the looks on the faces (metaphorically, of course, due to Vent) of the Alchemist, Wilder, and Bard when that happens. Mwahahahahah.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
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Excellent! If they're a tough party, you might like a few more changes I made to Tamoachan. Let's see what I can remember...
I made the basilisk a Black Dracolisk and then threw in a few 1HD immature ones to flap around and distract the party from focusing too many attacks on the momma. That was fun!
I pumped up the varrangoin; made it a level 7 sorceror and kept it in the air. That was one of the first times I think I really challenged them. Great encounter!
If I think of any more I'll be sure to post it. Watch out for the gibbering mouther - the barbarian went mad and bisected Urol!
And feel free to vote for my Marrow Worms if you like them.
I like the ship monster idea that you had to add to the MOA if its going to easy.Animated Ship
Excellent! If they're a tough party, you might like a few more changes I made to Tamoachan. Let's see what I can remember...
I made the basilisk a Black Dracolisk and then threw in a few 1HD immature ones to flap around and distract the party from focusing too many attacks on the momma. That was fun!
I like!
I pumped up the varrangoin; made it a level 7 sorceror and kept it in the air. That was one of the first times I think I really challenged them. Great encounter!
I'm running Gestalt, got any suggestions for a class for the other side?
If I think of any more I'll be sure to post it. Watch out for the gibbering mouther - the barbarian went mad and bisected Urol!
This one will probably be new for my players, I don't think any of us have ever run a critter like that.
And feel free to vote for my Marrow Worms if you like them.
Heh. Blatant advertising ;)
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
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Heh! Never got in, and my massive post explaining them got swallowed by the messageboard monster. I'll retype it in the weekend. Top 32 was cool - roll on next year! And the Top 16 are all awesome!
Another class as well as all those nasty abilities? Spellthief? Or...how about Rogue/Spellthief with that feat that lets the sneak stack? Swift 'Sniper Shot', then steal 6 spells or spell effects from the party every round from somewhere near the ceiling!
Hmmm, 60ft ceiling, Blindsight and Sniper's Shot out of a Darkness effect...nasty!
Sorcerer 7/rogue 5.assassin 2.
With the feat/spell that allows for ranged death attack.
Death from above, indeed!-t
I do like. Will have to slip Invisibility into his spell list somewhere, so he can vanish and get his Death Attack >:D
Just ran it, forgot to sub in the Dracolisk for the Basilisk at the beginning; it got pummeled hard by the Totemist though and ran away in the first round so no big loss there.
Sutolore managed to put the hurt on several party members for a few rounds between poofing in and out of invisibility and Sneak Attacking with rays; however once he got out into the big open room the Killoren negated his stealth with his darned Hunter's Sense and got him with an unlucky Grease before he could get airborne (darned low ceilings!), ruining his chance for a Death Attack and pretty much setting him to running for the rest of the fight.
Oh well, next time! At least I know the Mother and later Olangru will be able to get around that annoying ability >:)
Ran her tonight with the suggested change. She pulverized the bard mere seconds before the barbarian|totemist crushed her face in. Definitely a climactic end to SWW and heroic exit for the bard - she picked on him because his Spiritual Weapons were doing as much damage as the Eidolon's many attacks a round, given the annoying way they ignore DR.
Ran her tonight with the suggested change. She pulverized the bard mere seconds before the barbarian|totemist crushed her face in. Definitely a climactic end to SWW and heroic exit for the bard - she picked on him because his Spiritual Weapons were doing as much damage as the Eidolon's many attacks a round, given the annoying way they ignore DR.
Ran it tonight and the Mother of All came 1 round away from a TPK. The party has 4 players and I had to removed the DR from the creature. With the DR it would have been a TPK.
Ouch. Yeah, my group is a bit stronger than average - between a few pretty good optimizers and Gestalt - so it really does come down to knowing your players/party.
Hopefully the loss of the rest of the party is recoverable (can bring new characters in from the crew, or have access to Raise magic?), as things are just starting to get interesting by this point of the story. :)
Ouch. Yeah, my group is a bit stronger than average - between a few pretty good optimizers and Gestalt - so it really does come down to knowing your players/party.
Hopefully the loss of the rest of the party is recoverable (can bring new characters in from the crew, or have access to Raise magic?), as things are just starting to get interesting by this point of the story. :)
Ya if the hasted, shield bashing ranger hadn't of hit with all 4 of his attacks the next round would have seen one of her children killing the -2hp rouge at her feet and all 3 attacks into the 6 hp ranger.
Timing was everything.
Does anyone have a monster cheat sheet for TFOE? A list of the badguys on a stat block?
Jason
Does anyone have a monster cheat sheet for TFOE? A list of the badguys on a stat block?Jason
Isn't that an abbreviation for an adventure from the AoW adventure path? The "Three Faces of Evil" or something like that?
Yup. Wrong forum Jay, this is Savage Tide :)