Ben gives another of his apparently trademarked smirks in response to Ceelie's needling about the Warlock woman. And adds a raised eyebrow to The elf's descriptions of the warlocks,... habits.
"Yep. My kind of woman all right. Nuthin' but trouble." Ben mutters in response, nonetheless giving the bald woman an appreciative eye. He looks around the table. Then shrugs his shoulders non-committaly. "We've met." is all he offers.
FFW
Wondering what Earod's problem seems to be, other than a slow evening, Ben starts when the door busts open. He grabs his staff as he stands, ready to defend himself before he even recognizes the youth on the floor.
"Hess!" He cries, in conjunction with the others' outbursts as he joins the dwarf and the Dragonborn next to the injured human. He looks frantic for a moment until the dragonborn takes a vial of powder out and sprinkles it over Hess's form. He peers keenly as the dust settles, relaxes when he recognizes it's properties, and calmly begins looking over the youth for exactly what caused the wounds. Then he looks up to the door.
"Ceelie?" He asks, nodding at the door with a raised eyebrow for a question mark.
"By all the Forge-Fires of the Deep! Blood has been spilled and it demands recompense!"
As if in response, a cacophony rises from the other side of the front double-doors. Wagon wheels turning, an indistinct thumping, and heavy footfall from the street beyond. Torchlight flickers past the windows.
A Silence.
An inhalation.
Hess wheezes from atop Dravos's back, "Hobgoblins..."
The front doors crack and explode inward, hinges straining and bending. Four Hobgoblins surge through, swords outstretched to skewer all in their way.
"For the Hand! For Sinruth!" They cry.
Roll initiative. Here's the MAP with starting positions.
Hearing the commotion on the other side of the room, Ceelie nudges the backdoor closed and flips down latch to slow down any more attackers who might try and enter that way. Following that, she bites her tongue to keep from attracting attention to herself. 'Hopefully, one of these hobgoblins will leave himself wide open to a surprise attack,' she mentally tells herself.
I don't know if the door latch thing would qualify as a standard action. If it's anything more than a free or swift action (or whatever 4e's equivalent might be), then skip it. Ceelie intends to close and perform a ranged attack with a hurled dagger to announce her participation in the fight. But I'll wait until we see the initiative order to post.
Ceelie: Closing the door is considered a minor action, but Ceelie does so before entering initiative. There's no immediately apparent way to bar the door, however. The latch will hold the door closed, but it is not locked unless you take actions on your turn to do so (like taking the time to look for the bar as an example).
Kriv: There are only the three windows up front. These are opaque windows with diamond-shaped panes. At night one could only make out a person standing outside if he or she were standing directly in front of the window. Right now only occasional light sources against the overall darkness outside can be made out as they pass by. Torches, most likely.
Does R(E) represent Earod on the map? Does he have my weapons, or do I need to go get them? Also, what kind of cover does the bar provide (considering that I'm 4.5 feet tall, I doubt I can see over it).
Depending on whether or not I'm armed, I can try to switch places with Earod and attack the hob at C13. Alternately, I can end run around and charge the same guy, but that leaves me vulnerable to all four. If I'm not armed, I'll have to take the OA just to get to my weapons or attempt to fight with a throwing hammer.
R(E) is Earod, R(e) is Ellice, R(n) is Fina (whom I should have named Nina since I keep thinking that's her name). Earod was on his way to get your hammer, but the Hobgoblins busted through first. Note that Dravos's marker is Green/Blue--that's Hess on his back. Keep reading...
The bar isn't that tall (waist-high on a six foot man is about 3.5 feet, right?) provides cover to a Medium creature standing behind it, superior cover to a small creature, and concealment to a prone creature (like Hess, maybe). From a standing start, it takes a DC 30 Athletics check to jump on top of, DC 15 with a two-square run.
Tables, when tipped over using a standard action, provide cover to a standing creature and superior cover to a prone one. It costs one square of movement to jump on top of one. Small creatures can move under a non-tipped table for cover.
Improvised weapons. Review my initial description of the Antler and Thistle. There is more than enough crap in here to use as a one-handed (1d4) or two-handed (1d8) improvised weapon.
JSL: As far as I'm concerned, Dravos dropped his hammer (which I took to mean his Warhammer) and his shield on the floor, both in B15; he's still got his throwing hammer (it's on his belt, right?) and dagger.
Seems like that'd be fair. Take a basic ranged attack vs. one of the Hobgoblins; this'll occur before entering initiative (it'll be like you readied an action and take it on a surprise round). Since you're plugging one as it comes through the door (rather than one in it's current position), you roll the attack, and I'll randomly determine which one you end up attacking. Also, since you get to fire as they squeeze through, they'll be harder to hit as they'll be side-by-side (due to a special phalanx ability). Which is also a clue.
So, was the Hobgoblins 19 action entering the inn? If so that means it's close to my turn, isn't it?
Ben's head snaps up at the commotion as the Hobgoblins enter, then back and forth between Earod and Ellise as they are threatened.
"Ellise!" Ben cries as his chivalrous streak wins out, he grasps his staff firmly in his right hand as he pulls his wand out from inside his leather coat with his left. There is a faint smell of woodsmoke from his staff as his anger causes power to surge forth unbidden.
'Great, NOW I remember her name!' Ben chides himself as he points his staff at the creature threatening the girl.
"Hey! Fangface! Yeah YOU yah mangy mutt! Pick on somebody your own size! Try me and I'll burn you bald!"
The first hobgoblin through the door, dirty tabard sporting a crudely painted and upside-down red hand upon it, rushes to cut down Earod but stops suddenly and collapses at the man's feet, Aelwyn's arrow protruding from its larynx.
Ellice and another tavern patron--a human man--are not so lucky. Before anyone can react, both are cut down--dead before hitting the stone floor of the tavern.
A mixture between a growl and a shout escapes Dravos' lips as he shrugs Hess to the floor and sprints out from behind the bar. Shoving Earod to the side, he barrels past the barkeep and unhooks his throwing hammer from his belt.
With a shout of, "Here's dwarf in yer craw, Hob!", he makes an off-balance throw that sails wide of the nearest hobgoblin and skids to a stop near his recently-vacated seat at the table. He hefts his shield and prepares to fight.
If I can grab my shield from B14, I move 5 squares to B14. If I must move farther, I take a run action to do so. Grabbing the hammer off the belt is a minor action. Throwing it is a standard action. Picking up my shield is a minor action, so I'll use an action point to do it.
You can end your movement in B14--let's not split hairs.
Dravos
Your throw off-balance and on-the-move, the hammer sails over the head of the hobgoblin, who spins to face you. He grins and gnashes his teeth but remains disciplined and stands his ground.
Since the game won't continue, may as well meta a bit so. Kriv's action notwithstanding, Ceelie can attack the hob in D14 by moving to D8 and charging to D13. She would get a +1 to the attack. Additionally, since Dravos marked that hob, if he counterattacks Ceelie, he gets a -2 to his attack. If he moves to attack Dravos, he puts himself in a position where we can flank him next round.
It might be good to concentrate on D14 since we are out of position and risk the softies (Ben and Kriv) getting based if we spread out too much. If D14 survives, next round I will use Tide of Iron to push him towards the center and try to base a second hob. Otherwise, I will move to the next hob and try to knock him down.
Alewyn is closest to D14, so she can use hunter's quarry on it. That is probably best because moving to be closer to either of the others leaves her vulnerable to counterattack from two hobs.
If Ben or Kriv have the ability to put a condition like dazed or slowed on either of the other hobs, that would be great at this juncture because it will prevent them from getting behind the melee types. Otherwise, concentrate fire on D14 and let's bring him down.
...Ceelie can attack the hob in D14 by moving to D8 and charging to D13. She would get a +1 to the attack. Additionally, since Dravos marked that hob, if he counterattacks Ceelie, he gets a -2 to his attack. If he moves to attack Dravos, he puts himself in a position where we can flank him next round.
I was planning on having Ceelie use her Sly Flourish either from range (with a throwing dagger) or by running up for melee (with the same dagger), while possibly drawing her shortsword along the way. I'm not sure how 4e handles quickdraw situations, but with minor actions as part of the game, that seems do-able. Can she still use Sly Flourish after a charge? Or is the charge itself her action? And with the hobgoblin in D14 being marked by Dravos (or otherwise focusing his attention on the dwarf now) does that grant any kind of combat advantage to Ceelie for a ranged sneak attack with a thrown dagger or as part of the charge?
I was planning on having Ceelie use her Sly Flourish either from range (with a throwing dagger) or by running up for melee (with the same dagger), while possibly drawing her shortsword along the way. I'm not sure how 4e handles quickdraw situations, but with minor actions as part of the game, that seems do-able. Can she still use Sly Flourish after a charge? Or is the charge itself her action? And with the hobgoblin in D14 being marked by Dravos (or otherwise focusing his attention on the dwarf now) does that grant any kind of combat advantage to Ceelie for a ranged sneak attack with a thrown dagger or as part of the charge?
Ranged attack w/ sly flourish is also a good option as the charge limits you to a basic melee attack (which is strength-based). However, the charge does grant +1 to hit and put you in position to flank next round. You do not take an AC penalty for charging as you did in 3e.
The reason I suggest the charge is that the hobs are soldier monsters and have high AC. If you have to attack AC, go with the option that gives you the highest attack bonus. Damage won't be a problem in this fight, but hitting might be.
Also, I think we need to base at least one of these guys so they don't run all around and base Ben, Kriv, and Alewyn. We also need to try to prevent them from all clumping together, which gives them an AC boost.
You don't get any advantage from the mark. The only way you are getting combat advantage in this fight is if you run and hide,flank, or by way of imposed condition.
Yes, this is shameless metagaming. I am justifying it in two ways. 1) the campaign is not continuing, so roleplaying seems less important; 2) for a couple of you, this might be your only 4e experience and I want to try to highlight some of the differences from 3e in the tactical game. Even though there are fewer combat options, there are many more viable options. Also, this fight is very loseable.
Stop apologizing about the metagaming! I find it as helpful as anyone. On one thing you noted, it'll be interesting to see how difficult this really ends up being. I suspect that it'll either be a yawner or ridiculously hard. Kriv's up.
Ranged attack w/ sly flourish is also a good option as the charge limits you to a basic melee attack (which is strength-based). However, the charge does grant +1 to hit and put you in position to flank next round. You do not take an AC penalty for charging as you did in 3e.
Ceelie would actually be +1 better to hit from range vs. melee (due to Ceelie's Dex) so that would make up for the charge bonus. And she'd get better damage with the Sly Flourish...even moreso if her ranged attack were a sneak attack. Along those lines, I was kind of envisioning moving up (because Ceelie is furtherest away from the hobgoblins right now), but throwing a dagger as she closes. Then, she'd draw her shortsword and prepare to move in for a flank on the next round after any remaining hobgoblin(s) focused on Dravos.
JSL wrote:
The reason I suggest the charge is that the hobs are soldier monsters and have high AC. If you have to attack AC, go with the option that gives you the highest attack bonus. Damage won't be a problem in this fight, but hitting might be.
In that case, a Sly Flourish ranged attack vs. AC is probably Ceelie's best opportunity to hit. And, although damage might not be a problem in this fight, she'd definitely do more with it than the charge. On subsequent rounds, I can switch Ceelie over to Piercing Strike once she's in melee. That way, she'll be going against the hobgoblins' Reflex instead of AC.
JSL wrote:
Also, I think we need to base at least one of these guys so they don't run all around and base Ben, Kriv, and Aelwyn. We also need to try to prevent them from all clumping together, which gives them an AC boost.
It looks like most of us are targeting the same guy. So hopefully, at least one or two of us punch through and eliminate him. Aelwyn's got another attack coming up. Her first one was a surprise attack as they came through the door. The same guy Dravos and Ceelie are targeting is closest to her anyway. So he seems like the one to eliminate.
After Kriv goes, I'll have Ceelie move into range and use a Sly Flourish to try and hit him with a dagger. Then Aelwyn can put an arrow in him, if necessary. And Dravos can follow up with a melee attack when we cycle back around. If necessary, Ben and Kriv can huddle behind the fireplace and work out a plan for the rest of the hobgoblins. Then, you and me can form our own phalanx while Aelwyn keeps using the table as a firing platform.
JSL wrote:
You don't get any advantage from the mark. The only way you are getting combat advantage in this fight is if you run and hide, flank, or by way of imposed condition.
That makes me wonder then. If Ceelie is effectively at the very back door, doesn't that mean she already ran-and-hid? So, as I take her turn and come out with her throwing knife, wouldn't that be combat advantage? I would assume none of the hobgoblins will see her coming...
Regardless, I don't think it changes her action. And after the ranged attack plays out with the thrown dagger, I'll be looking to close and flank for combat advantage anyway.
[/metagaming] ;)
Anybody heard from Fabes? We're still waiting on Kriv, right?
The hobgoblin (G13) yanks his sword out of Ellice's belly and looks up as Kriv takes his shot. He raises his shield...too late. The bolt just clears the top of the shield and sinks deeply into the monster's eye. The hobgoblin's head jerks back violently, and he slumps to the floor.
Case in point, had the hobgoblin been standing next to his comrade, Kriv's shot would've missed. Ceelie's up.
The hobgoblin yanks his sword out of Ellice's belly and looks up as Kriv takes his shot. He raises his shield...too late. The bolt just clears the top of the shield and sinks deeply into the monster's eye. The hobgoblin's head jerks back violently, and he slumps to the floor.
Ceelie follows close behind Kriv's dart and nearly as quickly. She slips past Ben with the agility of a cat, building up speed for a long-distance throw of her knife. Racing along the edge of the bar, she then spins in a tight circle so her cloak will billow outward and attract the attention of the hobgoblin at D14. The maneuver also clips a couple of bottles along the bar, sending them crashing to the floor for extra effect.
As soon as Ceelie completes her full turn, however, she lines up with the hobgoblin and launches her dagger. A glint of light is the only indication of the spinning blade as it hurtles towards him. At the same time, she draws her shortsword and raises it in readiness for any would-be attacker who wants to close with her.
I have no idea how far Ceelie can move towards the hobgoblins. Her movement rate is 6 squares. If that's her "move"-equivalent action in 4e and her ranged attack with the dagger is her "standard"-equivalent action, I'm unsure what remaining minor or swift or whatever additional action components are available to her. If she can only move 6 squares, I'll put her at D8. That means a long-distance throw with her knife (which has a range of 5/10?)...so adjust her attack with whatever modifiers are necessary. If she can move closer than D8 to get a more accurate throw, she'll close to within a square or two of him instead, though.
That would make it Aelwyn's turn at bat? Well Swing Dahlin'! ;) Ben wants to show those guys a Hot time in the old town tonight!
;)
Actually, I'm reviewing the abilities to see what would be most useful, concentrating on one to bring it down, or backing up the ones closest together, (only one square for now, sorry), or trying to damage multiples,... you know, trying to get the hang of the new system.
Aelwyn sets her sights on the nearest fiend and speedily draws an arrow. Designates D14 as Hunter's Quarry. As she releases it, she feels the shaft fly true through the air and hit her mark.
Ceelie deftly spins around Ben (to D8), her cloak flaring around her, her dagger catching the Hobgoblin unaware as he stares down Dravos. The Hobgoblin falls to the ground with Ceelie's dagger protruding from his neck.
Aelwyn switches targets at the last moment (to the Hobgoblin at I14) and catches the other Hobgoblin through his back and sending him to his knees and then the floor.
I switched Aelwyn's target given the resolution of Ceelie's action. I also consider myself educated on the use of Hobgoblins in combat. Though the floor is cleared (so far), we're not out of initiative yet. Ben, you're up.
Map UPDATE reflecting where we're at so far. Oops, Ctrl+refresh to see Aelwyn's new position.
Everybody just hold your water! Dravos, Kriv, sit back down, please. We're still in initiative order, people *clap, clap*! I'll take your posts as possible/intended actions, but for now Ben, and only Ben is up. Sheesh!
LOL! Yeah, I see! ;) (One day I'll learn to curb my impatient-ness, it only brings me trouble anyway,...) ;P
Ben, finally shaking himself out of the shock of the hobgoblins brutish attack, shakes his head to clear it. His eyes narrowed and jaw jutting forward, he stalks towards the front door, a grim specter in black.
"They didn't come alone." He growls, deliberately avoiding looking at the bodies on the floor as he approaches the front door. "They'll all burn for this,..."
He reaches the still-open doors left arm extended wand-first. The tip glowing incandescent with the energies focused through it. Holding his staff close in front of him defensively, he slowly looks out the doors for other hobgoblins,...
OK, Move action, to (presumably still open, according to the initial description,) front doors. Look carefully out,(Minor action = peeking?) wand first and ready to toast the first furry thing I see. (I feel SO sorry for town mutt right now!) WIll fire if I see another one, otherwise, will try to figure out where the rest of the big bad doggies have gone, if I can't see them on the street.
My descriptions seem to be lacking tonight, the wand is in his left hand, the staff in his right,...
Essentially to do what Ben describes doing, you'll have to "buy down" your standard action and make it a move action. To keep things moving, I'm placing Ben at E16, peering out the door. You spent two move actions getting there and a minor action to carefully peer around the corner. Make a stealth check, please.
As Ben peers out the front doors, all hell breaks loose in the Antler and Thistle.
Earod, screaming, rushes to his daughter's side and cradles her body in his arms. Hess, still blood stained, rolls over the bar and skids over to the hearth, hardly able to stop his momentum. Most patrons make for the front door, but one of the Halflings stoops next to a fallen human man and tries to staunch his bleeding. Fina screams and rushes down the back hall.
"No! Fina, don't go tha--" Yells Hess after her.
Round 2:
But as Fina reaches for the handle of the back door, it implodes and three hobgoblins spill through, cutting her down as they rush into the bar. A smaller creature follows them, a wicked blade in one hand and a torch--spitting and dripping all over the place--in the other hand.
Shields raised, the Hobgoblins attack Kriv and Ceelie, hitting Kriv in the arm and Ceelie in her thigh.
...which bounces off his chest, sending a shower of sparks into his face but not alighting his clothing. The torch lands at Kriv's feet and immediately the flames begin to spread along the floor behind the bar towards the wall and shelves containing the bottles of alcohol!
Kriv's square (C7) is on fire. If he does not move on his turn, he will take additional fire damage. The fire is quickly spreading to the shelves of alcohol that run behind the bar (from B7 to B12).
With a satisfied grumble, Dravos looks up from the corpses of the slain hobgoblins in time to see the back door kicked in and another troop of the curs storm into the tavern. With a practiced flick of his toe, he flips his warhammer into his free hand and rushes to the attack.
Ben reaches the door,and carefully starts to look through it, when all hell breaks loose BEHIND him! His head snaps around to see the second group of creatures attack with knife and torch.
Kriv tries to get to the door, but flame in the face has a habit of distracting one...
Angered by the wanton destruction of the goblins, he rolls out from behind the bar and with a mighty roar engulfs the attackers in a gout of flame from his mouth!
Shift to B6, dragonbreath close blast 3 affecting columns C,D,E, rows 5.6,7
Dravos had already dropped E7, he is now extra-crispy.
As Kriv inhales, the Hobgoblin (C6) thrusts with his longsword and punctures Kriv's torso. An opportunity attack on Kriv for 5 hp damage. His desperate thrust opens him fully to the fury of Kriv's fiery breath. The monster drops, reduced to a pile of burned flesh and gristle.
The Goblin (D6) ducks, but his cloak and back are singed. He screams a curse in Goblin:
Goblin:
Spoiler:
"AAARGH! Scaleykind, I'll kill you and the one who hatched you!!!"
The remaining Hobgoblin (D7) puts up his shield which effectively blocks the brunt of Kriv's breath. He is missed and, therefore, still up and still ugly.
The Goblin ducks, but his cloak and back are singed. He screams a curse in Goblin.
Ceelie starts to add a curse of her own as the blazing hot flames flash before her eyes. At first, she fears maybe the alcohol behind the bar has finally caught fire, but she understands the Goblin tongue well enough to realize the flames came from the dragonkin instead. 'Careful! Or this whole place will go up...' she mentally chides Kriv.
SJ@ wrote:
The remaining Hobgoblin (D7) puts up his shield which effectively blocks the brunt of Kriv's breath. He is missed and, therefore, still up and still ugly.
Squinting her eyes against the heat, Ceelie immediately recognizes the advantage granted by the hobgoblin's raised shield. She uses her shortsword to bat aside her opponent's weapon. Then Ceelie draws another dagger from her belt and drives it through a small chink in the hobgoblin's armor.
Minor action to arm herself with another dagger. But I'm not having Ceelie fight two-handed. She just happens to have two weapons in her hands. This is a single attack action with the dagger. The shortsword parrying is just for color. ;-)
If this hobgoblin goes down, Ceelie will step forward with her move action to engage the goblin so he can't get away or retaliate against Kriv.
Aelwyn leaps over the bar, away from the growing inferno Acrobatics check (1d20 4=21), and takes aim at the goblin Hunter's Quarry on D6. "Incoming!" she shouts to Ceelie.
I guess this means damage could range from 12 to 31, depending on the success of the attacks.
::jaw drops::
What's the 4e ruling on firing into melee? Is Ceelie in any danger?
4e Rules Observations:
Spoiler:
A number of things are starting to stand out for me in this encounter. One, I didn't realize longbows were so much more powered up in 4e. They do 1d10 damage now? And, in addition to that, you get to add your Dex modifier as a bonus to the damage. Layer on an ability like Hunter's Quarry and a Ranger can pretty much deal an extra 1d6 damage to his target of choice every round...at range or melee. Somehow, that makes the Rogue seem more underpowered to me. An extra 1d6 damage from Hunter's Quarry is equivalent to a Rogue's sneak attack...only it doesn't have to be a sneak attack. I thought the classes were balanced in relation to one another? Am I missing something in this assessment? I'm sure Fabes or JSL can clear me up...
Secondly, these close blast attacks are certainly useful against minions, but anything stronger than that and they don't seem to have a lot of value at low level.
Thirdly, in the first combat, I find myself always using one of Ceelie's "special" attacks (i.e, the at-wills, encounter, etc.) on every turn. They're always more advantageous (mechanics-wise) than any other option. I noticed this same thing in the playtest I ran for D&D Game Day a couple of months ago. The Wizard and Cleric pretty much used their at-will abilities all the time in lieu of any other attack option. That's because they were simply more reliable in a metagame sense.
Fourthly, it feels like you do a lot more in one turn now than you could before. Move...then charge-attack in order to move even further and still get an attack off. Shift, draw weapon, attack, then move. Seems like a lot to pull off before the other side reacts or counters you. But I don't know. It's still early. These observations are only half-formed right now anyway. But I thought I'd share them before they slipped away.
The thread ate my original response. Grr. If you want an explanation as to how I arrived at this ruling, I'll give you one in the discussion thread. Otherwise, here-it-goes:
Seeing the fire racing up the wall and towards her, Aelwyn leaps, rump-first onto the bar. She is surprised by how slick the polished surface is (thanks to Earod's constant wiping, no doubt) and she slides off, onto the floor (she is prone in D11).
Since standing is a move action, I'm going to assume a couple of things just so that we can keep things moving. I'm pretty sure that Dravos is the only one to use an action point so far. For the cost of one action point, I'm going to say that Aelwyn gets another move action to stand up and that she can retain her standard action to make her attack as described above. Aelwyn, please deduct your action point--you're now standing in D11.
Despite falling, Aelwyn springs up, draws, and fires two shots with her bow with cat-like grace. The first of which hits the goblin squarely--causing him to choke on his curse--the second just misses his left ear.
The Goblin (d6) is bloodied. To say the least.
Celia 'Ceelie' Merveaux wrote:
What's the 4e ruling on firing into melee? Is Ceelie in any danger?
There is none--there's no penalty for doing so. I like it--keeps things moving.
Ben, you're up. And look, there's still one creature left for you to kill!
I guess this means damage could range from 12 to 31, depending on the success of the attacks.
More than that. 12+5 = 17 if one hits.
Response to NSpicer:
Spoiler:
NSpicer wrote:
A number of things are starting to stand out for me in this encounter. One, I didn't realize longbows were so much more powered up in 4e. They do 1d10 damage now? And, in addition to that, you get to add your Dex modifier as a bonus to the damage. Layer on an ability like Hunter's Quarry and a Ranger can pretty much deal an extra 1d6 damage to his target of choice every round...at range or melee. Somehow, that makes the Rogue seem more underpowered to me. An extra 1d6 damage from Hunter's Quarry is equivalent to a Rogue's sneak attack...only it doesn't have to be a sneak attack. I thought the classes were balanced in relation to one another? Am I missing something in this assessment? I'm sure Fabes or JSL can clear me up...
Strikers do a hell of alot of damage. In the WWDDGD event, I played the rogue and was routinely dropping 20+ damage with rapier and sneak attack. Note that sneak attack is 2d6, not 1d6, so it is a little more damage than hunter's quarry. But rangers get better weapons (i.e., d10 damage) vs. d4 or d6 for rogue (d8 for rogue with rapier, but that requires a feat, since you aren't proficient by default). Warlocks eldritch blast is d10 damage and they can curse someone for an extra d6.
For damage volume, the strikers win every time. But they are a little squishy compared to defenders and they generally lack the ability to attack multiple enemies (except with a couple of powers). Warlocks do not have any multiple target powers, that I recall.
NSpicer wrote:
Secondly, these close blast attacks are certainly useful against minions, but anything stronger than that and they don't seem to have a lot of value at low level.
There are powers that are minion clearers by design. The dragonborn's breath weapon is one of them. Also, if they have a push effect, like the wizard's thunderwave, they are great for getting you out of trouble. Some classes (wizards, clerics) have some higher damage blast powers at high levels.
NSpicer wrote:
Thirdly, in the first combat, I find myself always using one of Ceelie's "special" attacks (i.e, the at-wills, encounter, etc.) on every turn. They're always more advantageous (mechanics-wise) than any other option. I noticed this same thing in the playtest I ran for D&D Game Day a couple of months ago. The Wizard and Cleric pretty much used their at-will abilities all the time in lieu of any other attack option. That's because they were simply more reliable in a metagame sense.
Well, in any edition, the wizard is better off casting a spell than playing with his dagger. And the cleric's ranged at-wills keep him free to heal allies and move behind the lines to aid those who need it. In general, at-wills *are* better than basic attacks. There are times when a basic attack is better, as you might see when we roll around to Dravos again. But in general, you at-wills are your first line of offense and the basics only come up as OAs or when another power grants a free basic attack.
Monster basic attacks are typically better (i.e., more like PC at-wills) than PC basic attacks. This is because monsters don't have the whole slew of other options PCs have. Instead, they do one thing and do it well.
NSpicer wrote:
Fourthly, it feels like you do a lot more in one turn now than you could before. Move...then charge-attack in order to move even further and still get an attack off. Shift, draw weapon, attack, then move. Seems like a lot to pull off before the other side reacts or counters you. But I don't know. It's still early. These observations are only half-formed right now anyway. But I thought I'd share them before they slipped away.
I think someone said of 3e that combat would be a blur as the combatants warp around the battlefield in *their portion* of the six second round. In fact, it means you actually move faster when there are more combatants.
I have always had a problem with the six second round. In the time it has taken me to write this, a 30 round combat could have occured. I think the best solution is just to remove the six second round from the game entirely. Does it really matter how long a round is? Only when you have in-combat and out-of-combat events occuring simultaneously. But even then, six seconds is so short that it is almost irrelevant. How much can really happen during a four round fight? What makes a better story: if the sleeping guard in the next room wakes up on round 1 and rushes in on round 6 or if he wakes up on round 1 and must spend until round 50 putting on his armor?
4e goes a long way towards this by making durations either one round, save ends, until end of encounter, until extended rest, or permanent. So there can be no more argument about durations like 1 min/level and whether the wizard's shield is still up after the rogue finally picks the lock on the fourth try.
As to being able to do more in a round, this is mainly due to a number of actions being reduced to minor actions. This includes picking something up, drinking a potion, and using some powers. I think this is an improvement. In 3e, I'd frequently read tactics sections that said "at the beginning of combat, this creature casts A, B, C, D, E, and F on itself, then starts to fight. I'm thinking by the time it screws around for 6 rounds, it is dead! I like that people can buff and fight simultaneously. It keeps people in the game.
There is also a deliberate effort to make movement more relevant in combat. So now there are alot more abilities and powers that let you disengage once based or otherwise encourage you to do something other than stand still and swing. But the system does still have some "gamey" limitations. Watch Dravos next round (if the goblin lives) and you will see one.
